Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego

regfootball · April 2002

sorry about the screw up guys.....

i did finally see that after much cursing about how geocities doesn't let you link.

I did have it working for awhile.....nothing major, just a picture of my SHO after a wash job. Kinda irrelevent to the discussion, kinda sho-ing off a bit.

rea98d · April 2002

Since we're showing off,

regfootball · April 2002

nice Tbird BTW....I had a 95 Tbird, it was a nice car.

My point from the last photo is that even though Ford had many design successes in the late 80's and through the 90's, one could argue that the original Taurus was to an extent a knockoff of the Audi 5000, and the 89 Tbird was an interpretation of the BMW 6 coupe.

So I don't think that necessarily means any sort of A6 knockoff for the 500 would be bad. The Tbird and Taurus still maintained a unique identity while drawing some on the cars its emulated.

tomcat630 · April 2002

Ford let some "artsy-frtsy" lady design the dash for the 1996 Taurus. Her insperation was old TV found at garage sales. One doesn't design cars from TVs!

The messy dash was one of the worst looking ever. The 2000 was what the 96 should have been, 2 years later it's already outdated.

regfootball · April 2002

there are two separate but similar dash layouts for the 96-99 Taurus. The floor shift models is a slightly different look, but is nicer and sportier. The basic models with the column shift are quite yucky.

The dash colors used in the 96, 97, and 98 models were also quite dreary. My 99 with the floor shift and tan colored dash is a big improvement in looks over a 96 with bench seats, column shifter, and wierd plastic color.

I only bring it up because I don't think most people have seen a 96-99 Taurus dash with the floor shifter.

upsetter1 · April 2002

Why Ford is so dedicated to the bench seat ? Isn't 5 people capacity enough. I also cannot imagine how three adults can fit into the front bench and it is not too safe to boot. I never seen in my life three people sitting in the front bench. It is one of contributors to Taurus image as a rental machine.

rea98d · April 2002

Anyone with a girlfriend will tell you exactly why bucket seats will never, ever be as cool as bench seats.

upsetter1 · April 2002

So thats why married couples are buying Cords and Camrys ?

Or put it other way, thats why reproduction rates are so dramatically down after imports become major players. In Europe population is shriniking in alarming rate, there were no bench seats and column shifts since 70s.

regfootball · April 2002

it can work with bucket seats too, the filly just needs to work on the flexibility a little bit.

tomcat630 · April 2002

People say the column shifters are old and passe on a US car. But, in a Honda CRV, it's 'cool'.

regfootball · April 2002

it sucks. just like in the boats.

IMHO.

jsylvester · April 2002

I like bench seats only because you can put things in the front seat without worrying about it falling down between the seat and the darn console.

That being said, all my cars have consoles.

verozahl · April 2002

Three cheers for consoles!
Honda consoles kick other Ford consoles.
When they kick Pontiac consoles, all the cheap gray junk falls under the seats.

Ford interiors have been improved in the last two years... but generally, they are boring and unergonomic.

ickes_mobile · April 2002

is why the 500 isn't a Mercury. It would be a chance to give that division something unique that also fits together with the Marquis and Lincolns in the showroom. Why they keep trying to sell Mercury to young people (i.e., Cougar) is beyond me. BTW, I think the 500 looks more like a Germanized Avalon than a pure VW knockoff.

porknbeans · April 2002

I agree with that. If Ford is looking for a replacement for their aging Grand Marquis why not use this. I understand that they are trying to add some life with the Marauder but it is still an 80's design. Only having the artists drawing to go from, it would seem that it is big enough to have a V8 under the hood. The additional roomcreated from the tall roof would also seem attractive to older folks that might have a hard time getting into a lower car.

verozahl · April 2002

Mercury sells fine to older folks these days, and that is Ford's problem. Ford should be bread-and-butter sedans and trucks. Exciting things should go to Mercury. Marauder. Mondeo. Mazda spinoffs. The Ford 500? Why can it not compete with the Impala? Make it a Ford, and not an expensive Mercury wannabe.

ickes_mobile · April 2002

That's exactly my point. What makes FoMoCo think they can sell exciting cars through Mercury when the steadfastly refuse to kill of the Marquis and continue to sell them as the volume product next to Lincolns?

I agree that Ford should sell the bread and butter sedans. I think Mazda is their performance niche brand, if nothing other than to separate it from Ford products in segments where they go head-to-head.

What is missing in the FoMoCo stable is a move-up product. No matter how hard they try, Fords will never be considered "premium" products. I also think that Mercury, and to a lesser extent Lincoln, will never be more than dressed up Fords.

For this reason, I think acquiring Volvo was a key move for FoMoCo. It has its own ID, and is seen as a true step up from Fords in the market and can create a bridge to the other PAG brands at the top of the range.

akirby · April 2002

Who needs the 4.6L V8 when the Jaguar AJV8 from the LS, Tbird and Jag S-type can be had anywhere from a non-VVT 3.9L 252 hp version up to the Jag's VVT 300 hp 4.2L version? And Jag has already added a blower to get up to 388 hp.

ehaase · April 2002

Automotive News will report on 4/29 that Mercury will not get the Mondeo because Ford has overcapacity in its U.S. plants. In addition, importing the Mondeo would anger the UAW. Future Mercurys will use Ford and Mazda platforms.

The Car Connection has reported that the Lincoln LS may get a new 5.0L 32 valve V8 (based upon the current 4.6L V8) with 400 hp by 2004 to compete with the 400 hp Cadillac CTSi.

The Ford 500 may look like a Passat, but it will be a substantially larger car.

magnetophone · April 2002

ehaase, but they reported just a few weeks ago that they would get the Mondeo?!

jsylvester · April 2002

I know Ford is trying to make Mercury more a competitor of European cars, but Mercury is a competitor of Buick.

The Gran Marquis is Mercury's bread and butter car. It sells well, is highly profitable, and it's owners are amoung the most loyal of any model.

As a matter of fact, I'm trying to get my elderly parents to look at one. They are both depression era people, and they think Mercury's are overpriced cars for status concious people, and the Gran Marquis too exorbitant.

Hard to find a Crown Vic.

regfootball · April 2002

that the unions would have the influence to keep a product that is better like the Mondeo from being sold here.

akirby · April 2002

Word has it that since Ford bought Jag, Aston-Martin, Land Rover and Volvo the Detroit executives can now choose those as company cars, so there are a lot of them in the parking lot now. The UAW is making a stink about it - not because they're made by non-union workers, though. In fact, the workers are union, just not UAW. So all the UAW seems to care about is the UAW, not whether workers are treated fairly.

Interestingly the UAW complains about people buying US built Honda Accords and Toyota Camrys because the profits go back to Japan. Last time I checked the profits from all those European PAG brands goes to Detroit, but I guess that doesn't matter.

regfootball · April 2002

exactly.

magnetophone · April 2002

Can't they just non-renew UAW contracts and hire fresh blood? Or is that like firing the whole city of Lansing and rehiring Kalamazoo?

jsylvester · April 2002

Hiring replacements is called union-breaking. It would be a hugely dramatic step for any business to take, and normally it is done only as a last step before bankruptcy.

There are numerous labor laws about this subject, but basically if a union member wants one of the replacement jobs, they have to give it to him.

It is also a little misleading to say Honda never has lay-offs. I live in Ohio, and Honda hires a lot of temporary employees from employment agencies, mostly for the less skilled jobs. It may be true that "Honda" employees don't get laid off, but they do have lay-offs, only of the temp workers.

The lack of a union gives employers much more flexibility. The presence of the UAW keeps the transplant companies on their best behavior. The threat of a union is enough to keep from treating their employees like crap.

kw_carman · July 2002

Is it possible to raise the dead? Look at the date of the last post!

BTW, how 'bout a Ford 500 SHO? I sorta like the sound of that!

I will miss the Taurus, because I like the name. "Taurus" just does something to me, and I like to hear it said...okay, everyne can stop giving me strange looks as if I have something wrong with me.

verozahl · July 2002

blue Taurus SES looks nice. I wonder if they will do a Five Hundred SES?

jsylvester · July 2002

Taurus has a new sport edition option on the SES for the spring. Nice bucket seats, etc., and eligible for the killer rebates.

Don't know about the 500. The styling does nothing for me. If I wanted a European car, why buy a copy?

tomcat630 · July 2002

The 'SES' tag is kind of ruined now that fleets buy loads of them. I saw pricing for a "fleet SES" and there are alot of 2001 SES's for resale.

Anyway, hopefully this new 500 will be more desirable, if not they are going to end up losing.

ANT14 · June 2003

Update: Here's a link to some camouflaged spy pics of the 500. You can pretty much see the overall shape, size, if you stare into the bumper's you could sort of see the grill, and the rear light placements.

http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=6163&sid=17- 8&n=158

Source: The Car Connection SpyPics: Brenda Priddy

libertycat · June 2003

I prefer Ford interiors to Honda interiors myself. Fords are prettier, more convenient, and more comfortable.

libertycat · June 2003

Once again, I think what you say is crazy. Ford will not want to remind people of the Taurus and will find new names for trim levels. The SES is nothing special, just a middle trim level above the LX and SE and below the luxurious SEL.

ANT14 · July 2003

Let's analyze the styling of the 500, and see (as opposed to the sketch) how acurate it was.

Here we have the spy pics from TCC.com taken by Brenda Priddy. http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=6163&sid=17- 8&n=158

And the original sketch released over a year ago, courtesy of Edmunds.com
http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//pictures/- VEHICLE/2004/Ford/100076355/003847-E.jpg

On the side profiles, you can tell the overall curves were as seen on the sketch. Also the grab type handles, and side mirrors are exactly as the sketch indicated. The only part the differs is the rear seat side windows, where the sketch shows a more raked window cut out, and the spy pic shows it's more upright. The 3rd side-light obviously camouflaged.

The front, you see the grill and headlight are pretty much as the sketch indicated. And if you see clearly, the under chin spoiler cut outs creases can be imagined through the covering.

From the rear spy pic, you can also see through the camouflaging, the crease of the rear tail-light. It's very Mondeo like, or M-B like, diagnoal to front bottom type.

I would say the sketch was very dead on and very accurate. Too bad the same can't be said for the Montego, but that's another topic...

libertycat · July 2003

HOST, can u move this since there is so much conversation on this already?

ANT14 · July 2003

Move it where? It's the only Ford 500 forum, I just had to have this re-opened since it was a Read-Only forum for awhile.

pat · July 2003

I'm going to ask Kirstie to link it to Future Vehicles so you can find it on both boards.

ANT14 · July 2003

Let me throw a random question out so I can gauge some viewpoints. Given what you now know, or have heard about, the Five-Hundred. What vehicles do you believe will be it's prime competitors?

tomcat630 · July 2003

Impala, Avalon, Maxima, Bonneville, and Chrysler's LX cars.

libertycat · July 2003

The competitors will be as u mentioned: Avalon, Maxima, Impala, Bonneville, Charger. Also I would add:LeSabre and Diamante.

a_l_hubcaps · July 2003

I don't know if Maxima is a direct competitor for this thing. Keep in mind the Maxima has moved upmarket -- the days (not too long ago!) when a base Maxima stickered for $22K are gone. Maybe the loaded 500 will overlap the base Maxima, but the 500 is more likely to compete with the Chevy Impala, Buick LeSabre, Toyota Avalon, VW Passat and Chrysler 300, vehicles that are both less expensive and less performance oriented than the current Maxima.

-Andrew L

vcjumper · July 2003

are they not in the same price range as the Max?

ANT14 · July 2003

Yes true, but there's other factors, than just price when an automaker directs it into the market place. Factors such as demographics, type of drivers, age groups, drivability are important to look at. Ford stated publically, the Avalon is it's MAIN competitor. Although as mentioned above, you can throw in some vehicle, such as the current Chrysler LX sedans. Would be the next example.

The Maxima has a sportier nature, not exactly what the 500 itself will be, although the price range is the same. The buyers on the other hands, differ a bit.

a_l_hubcaps · July 2003

The 2004 Maxima has a sticker price in the $28-35K range while the LeSabre starts around $25K and then gets hit with rebates. The Avalon is a little higher, but the Max is higher than both.

-Andrew L

nvbanker · July 2003

Some people on the Lincoln LS board would like sales figures on the LS since 2000. I'm betting you know? Can ya help us?

ANT14 · July 2003

Link me if you can, there's quite a bit of those LS boards that I saw....

pat · July 2003

nvbanker is referring to this one: Lincoln LS

vcjumper · July 2003

when I check a canadian site, the Avalon XLS is 45K and the Maxima models run from 34.5 for SE cloth 5 seat to 42.9 for SL with Nav.

a_l_hubcaps · July 2003

vcjumper-

Are you sure you are looking at the 2004 Maxima and not the 2003? There is a big difference. Edmunds shows base MSRP for 2004 Maxima at $27,490 and base MSRP for 2003 Avalon at $26,430, both including destination.

-Andrew L

tecman4 · July 2003

It says 2004 ford 500,
But I've called my local dealership and they never heard of a 500.
Does anyone know when this car is coming out?

Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego

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