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I pumped in 9.453 Gal. which scewed my MPG which @ 222.3 miles gave me 23.516 MPG ???? :mad:
HECK, my 1990 4 runner 3.0 V6 (which I still have) gave consistent 22 MPG avg...
The manual states that the HH has 17.2 Gal tank, so theoretically 1/2 tank should be 8.6 Gal. and an MPG of 25.84 MPG. :confuse: :confuse:
I am running both Odo A + B till I run on fumes to check out 'true' mileage figures...
Unfortunately, most gas gauges are not calibrated. Meaning, that 1/2 tank on the gauge does not translate into 1/2 tank. That's why some cars seems to stay on "Full" for an eternity, then take a nose dive to the bottom of the pool after hitting 1/2 tank.
I'm sure some Detroit marketing genius came up with that idea.
Nimhrod
It seems like if I start off strong then ease off until it switches to electric and then keep a light foot on the gas pedal rather then slowly build up speed which will keep the gas going for a longer amount of time. Anybody have any other ideas?
First, I've read here and it appears to be true that passing 1000 miles and upwards will lead to gradual improvement in mpg. At 1300 miles that has been the case. (I've posted numbers in earlier posts so won't repeat here).
Second, take the car out on country roads where you are likely to encounter no traffic. I went out for an hour in rural area - - no one around, no cars behind you, you can vary speed, experiment. While not real world conditions its a good way to experiment and figure out how to maximize the electrice motor's use.
Third, I've found gradual acceleration is best as quick acceleration from start will always use more gas, hybrid or regular car. Yes, I can see where it would feel like you get to the electric motor quicker when you ease off the gas once you are at speed but still using more gas on fast start I suspect.
Fourth, maintain steady speed. Its hard to do in city driving, but on country roads I was amazed that I could hold at 40 mph and stay on electric for miles.
Last, cruise control. Early frustration with my seeming inability to find the "sweet spot" for maximizing the electric motor, I noticed on highway with cruise control on that the car itself seems to maximize electric (and better than my attempts at it manually/my foot). I normally never use cruise control, but perhaps a good reason to start.
By the way...on the country roads driving solely for purpose of hitting good mpg #'s, with occasional stop signs and slowing for turns, I hit 31 mpg over about 75 miles. Not real world conditions but nice to know the car can do that well.
One downside to trying to maximize mpg...it feels really, really good hitting the gas and feeling our HH take off like a shot. Its also amazing (although not gas efficient) zipping up entrance ramps and changing lanes in highway traffic. The HH is so responsive and so much torque. Something for everyone.
It would be great to hit closer to 30 than 25-27 mpg but our Expedition avg. 10 mpg (satisfaction depends in part, I think, on where you start from) and if I had to choose between 2-4 mpg vs. 6 cyl and plenty of power, for me, the ability to step on the gas and have the car move when you want outweighs chance for even better mileage.
Good luck.
Toyota could really help this effort by providing more data and readouts, perhaps in the area occupied by the power meter.
I have an AWD limited, a light foot, use AC very sparingly.
Good luck.
As I was INTENT on running on fumes, before I filled up in order to assess 'true' gas mileage.
I noted that at the 'bottom' of the fuel indicator, with low gas light glowing, I still had approx. 2+ gallons left in reserve, or approx 50 miles.
I 'filled up' with 15.006 gals. and drove 392.5 miles...for an MPG of 26.156 !
This was mostly highway driving 60-70 mph, with the air on almost constantly during this 90+ period.
I think that is pretty da_n good ! for the first tank full and encountered conditions.
My only gripe, is that I have a 'normal' (15 gal) range of 400 miles...same as with my Tundra, although I am getting approx 10 mpg MORE.
But my fill-ups are still the same, in terms of frequency...
Technically, if I ran the 17.2 gal tank 'dry' I would have 449.88 total miles driven
VS. my Tundra @ 16.8 mpg @ 26.4 gals = 443.52 miles OR 6.36 miles LESS than the HH.... :surprise:
I was, frankly, hoping for more range...maybe it will improve after it hits the 1K mark, but I don't think it will do so by much more.
In favor of the HH, it does have more 'horsepower' than my Tundra, is much smoother with the CVT and is quicker than the 4.7 L V-8...
Thanks for the info.
My HL(no H) regularly gets 25-26 MPG on the hwy between NY and Fla.However around town gets 14 to 15. My thought is if you drive mostly on hwys why spend the extra money. However around town when the battery really get used is the forte of these vehicles. Do you have a MPG # with mostly around town driving. I think that would convince me the extra money, complexity is worth it.
Thanks
cranking out the #s for my driving.
10000 mpyear 3000 hwy, 7000 local sts using your #s
looks like a savings of $665/ year @$3.00 /gal
$3325 over a 5 year car loan.
Unknowns are added repairs/servicability, resale values, price of gas.change in driving, being green.This is not an easy decision.
It looks like the Toyota pricing has also done the math and priced these vehicles at a crossover point.
Your thoughts?
The numbers you worked up may only take commuting into account. We're driving the HH everywhere, while leaving our other car in the garage on the weekends and evenings. So we have almost 3,000 miles on it already in about a month and a half. So that's 24,000 per year.
I think the reality will be somewhere between our two numbers.
We went for the 100,000 mile extended warranty so I don't think repairs are going to be a big issue. I'm counting on the resale value to be pretty good in a few years. By then, gas prices could be in the $3-$3.50 range or higher and my HH will be even more of a value for a used car buyer.
The bottom line is that I enjoy taking the next step in the direction that the automotive industry is going. When we see a Hummer H3 or Land Rover LR3 driving down the street, all I can think is "That's soooooo 20th century."
This was mostly highway driving 60-70 mph, with the air on almost constantly during this 90+ period.
I'm far west side Chicago (gas is currently 2.25/gal out here). I experienced exactly the same mpg as you did under the same conditions (26.1 mpg traveling the interstate with the air on). The computed and the actual came out identical. I'm anxious to see how well it does just beatin' around town. I wonder how much the FWD option knocks one down?
For comparison, on the highway I generally can get over 25mpg and once got 30mpg for a 60 mile trip (according to the computer). Generally I'm in cruse control at about 65mph on the highway.
Let us know what you other prior vehicle got.Yes,your mpg seems right-all vehicles suffer mpg on hills.Thanks.Charlie
I haven't gotten my Hybrid yet,so I don't have a dash in front of me to really verify that riding the brakes slightly while going downhill will work.You would want to apply them very lightly so most of the braking is from the little generator-coil-alternator(or whatever it actually is) being spun through the mag field.You don't want much actual pad to rotor pressure.I would guess you have some sort of charging readout;if this works,it should show electrical energy being stored.If you wait untill the bottom of the hill to brake,and have to suddenly brake them the "real" brakes will come into play more than you want-you want as much braking as possible to be "generator" braking. Luck.Charlie
I have two steep hills prior to my driveway, and I watch the (non-Ltd) gauge max ou, and stay that way as I reach the top. Granted, I do this with no traffic behind me and I do slow appreciably, but I do not stop.
The ICE does kick in when I reach my driveway, but only for a moment.
It has cooled considerably here with heavy rain fall, the HH seems to prefer this type of weather over the high heat (97+) that we experienced this weekend.
Driving home today it seemed to have more 'pep'...maybe it's
just me....
Has anyone done much driving in traffic and see the increase in milleage into the 30's mpg? I'm actually driving into the city tomorrow and will see what results I get.
Once-if-folks find the sweet spots on the HH,and the best way to optimize their commute route mpg,we might see more "high" results.I'm guessing there is a little learning curve for the humans.The Prius fanatics have developed some techniques to increase mpg,but I haven't spent enought time there to decipher their jargon(reboot in respect to car for example?).Some of what they are doing might be warranty voiding"stuff"(and I bet these vehicles keep a record of such things),but I'm just guessing in that respect.Thanks.Charlie PS Let us know about your trip mpg.
Hong.
Since then I check each new car I buy(or when I replace the tires) by comparing the “Odometer/Trip meter” to the road side mileage markers on 3 different interstate highways over a distance of 100 miles. In all cases while the distance on the
“Trip meter” read the same for each highway they always differed from the 100 miles by about 1% high to 3% low. Being low doesn’t bother me since this extends the warranty.
Now when I calculate the MPG on my cars I always do it after a fill up (to the brim) from the same pump. What I found on my HH is that when I went 100 miles both the “Odometer/Trip meter” incorporated in the speedometer module and the Trip meter in the navigation system both showed 97 miles. To adjust for this in my MPG readings and/or calculation of my MPG I multiply the results by 1.0309 (for my HH) to get a more accurate MPG value.
I currently have 1,400 miles on my HH and am getting 28 MPG for both highway and suburban driving.
I was wondering if anyone else out there ever bothered to check the accuracy of their “Odometer/Trip meter” readings.
The Prius can finally be bought most places for MSRP and a bit less.The dealers were regularly sticking folks for $5000= over MSRP which meant they would NEVER recoup relative to say a Corolla or Civic.Really too bad,but Toyota doesn't have much control over dealers.They can't withhold vehicles from rapacious dealers-against their contract with the dealers.Of course this is capitalism,so we really can't beef-just don't buy,and remember who the bad boys were-spread the word and name names.Folks seem to be reluctant to reveal dealers names-good and bad-online.
I checked Consumer Reports for data on various midsized Lux SUV's and the only one that I would guess(CR hasn't tested the HH or RX400 yet,so I have to use other folks acceleration data and extrapolate-guess-what it would get in CR's mpg tests)outperforms the the HH is the various Turbo versions of the Cayenne(450 and 500 hp).I think that the non turbo Cayenne 300+hp will accelerate about as fast as the much lighter(4400 lbs vs >5000lbs) HH or RX400.The V-6 Toureg $37000-44000 is a miserable performer acceleration and mpg wise-11.9-0-60 and 15 mpg mixed mpg vs RX330 8.8 18 MPG MIXED.
Pretty much the same story for the MB V8(302 HP,but 4800+ lbs).
All these other lux SUVs are more expensive to much more expensive than the HH or RX400.None of them that match the RX400 price ,match it's acceleration or mpg (my guess of mpg-I think CR will get 21mpg mixed-3 mpg better than the RX330-my guess of course,but reasonable-I think).CR's.Most of these lux SUV's get 12-13 mpg in CR's city loop.I'm guessing the HH will get about 14-15 mpg on CR's city loop which is very good.For example a 4 cyl Accord get 16 mpg on CR's city loop.The Accord Hybrid gets 18 mpg on the city loop.The Accord V-6 gets 15 mpg city loop.My2- 3mpg better than the V-6 RX330 comes from the Accord V-6 vs Accord Hybrid. 3 mpg difference.The heavy HH might benefit more than the Accord in the city,and Toyota's Hybrids do a bit better than Honda's in general.
Well,just a guess,but the numbers I see favor the HH -RX400 vs other midsized lux SUVs in acceleration-price and mpg.Safety is a wash,and reliability is all Toyota-Lexus-;the MB-Volks-BMW aren't very good reliability wise.Thanks.Charlie
I don't understand how the NYT writer only got in the 21 range. My commute has to be the worst for mileage. It's only 4.5 miles each way and it averages a stop sign every two blocks.
But mileage was only one reason I bought mine. There's the geopolitics, the environment, and the gee-whiz factor. And I'm also counting on a decent resale value when I go to sell the HH in five years (especially compared to those 12 mpg SUVs I'll be competing with).
I wont see what the final for this tank will be:. Since I will be giving it along one day trip from Milwaukee to NYC, Which is about 900 miles on Wed. for a vacation to see our grandchildren. We alway drive straight through. And travel at about 70~75. I plan on not reseting the computer to see what the mpg will be for the trip out there. Flat land and mountain driving.
I will post my results when I return on Aug 15th or 16th when I get back
My salesman is über knowledgeable and he says, based on the ordinary Highlander, there should be 1.5 gallons at the first sign of a light.
But radio’s Click and Clack Bro.s long ago got this theory right. There’s only one way to tell. Have a can of fuel in the back and go till you run out. Put the 5 gallons in and then straight to a pump and fill and then you’ll know. I’ll be doing that and reporting the result. Though, with this rubberized tank, maybe they’re not all the same size?
Like many others, I’m finding the 12v battery’s too small. I wonder if anyone’s replaced it yet and how big can you go? Looks like you can move the wiper fluid filler tube and get a reasonably large battery in there.
Ken
The thing is when someone or yourself is driving and not used to your car they will try and keep going on fuel light because you have a Hybrid and they think they can drive for ever!
Just as a question, did you run your HH out of gas or just your normal ICE vehicle out? The reason I ask is that I have known several owners of Prius's who have and it was a bit of a chore to get it up and going again, not just getting gas in the tank.
Thanks
Ken
As I was INTENT on running on fumes, before I filled up in order to assess 'true' gas mileage.
I noted that at the 'bottom' of the fuel indicator, with low gas light glowing, I still had approx. 2+ gallons left in reserve, or approx 50 miles.
I 'filled up' with 15.006 gals. and drove 392.5 miles...for an MPG of 26.156 !
This was mostly highway driving 60-70 mph, with the air on almost constantly during this 90+ period.
I think that is pretty da_n good ! for the first tank full and encountered conditions.
My only gripe, is that I have a 'normal' (15 gal) range of 400 miles...same as with my Tundra, although I am getting approx 10 mpg MORE.
But my fill-ups are still the same, in terms of frequency...
Technically, if I ran the 17.2 gal tank 'dry' I would have 449.88 total miles driven
VS. my Tundra 16.8 mpg 26.4 gals = 443.52 miles OR 6.36 miles LESS than the HH....
I was, frankly, hoping for more range...maybe it will improve after it hits the 1K mark, but I don't think it will do so by much more.
In favor of the HH, it does have more 'horsepower' than my Tundra, is much smoother with the CVT and is quicker than the 4.7 L V-8...
My MPG since I posted this actually has gone DOWN....possibly due to the heat.
However, I must concur with others on this board that this vehicle does better in a 'commuter' type environment, 'rubber-banding' down the freeway, instead of continious highway driving @ 65-70 mph.
One consolation is the V8 pickup with a V6...surprised an Audi A4 driver who thought he'd 'scoot round 'me today on LSD (Lake Shore Drive)
I just finished a "whirlwind" tour to Canton and Columbus, OH and back in 5 days to visit the in-laws. Averaging 70, closer to 75 mph with the AC blasting, I got about 26.5 mpg the first tank and then a little lower the second tank. I, too, drove my HH for a couple Hyde Park to Evanston trips after the low fuel light came on. Scary but filled up to about 15 1/2 gallons. All in all, I love the car. I am, however, seriously thinking about replacing the 12 volt battery because of need to power multiple accessories (laptop, CB radio, etc.) on long trips. Also worried about cranking power come next January when the "hawk" is blowing.
I visited the CRV forum;it is a SUV that is close in size,but has a 4 cyl,so it might challenge the HH on MPG.There were about 6 postings for the 2005 CRV-some 4x4 most auto.The CRV has the same 22-27 rating for the 4x2 and 4x4-pretty remarkable.But.... their entries averaged about -23 mpg.The best was 27.5 worst was 20.?forget what the 1/10th was).So,the CRV won't beat the HH mpg wise,it is a pile slower(10.5 vs 7.3) and a bit smaller.I would expect similar results from a 4 cyl Highlander.The 4 cyl should be very close to the HH on pure hy MPG,but city mpg will be all HH.
Now is it worth $10,000 more??Up to you.Charlie
Larry
HH buyers are getting a bit of a free lunch($38000 free,ha,ha) at the expense of the RX400 owners.They pay $10000-$15000 to get less interior room,but the exact same drivetrain??Now I would really feel taken if I paid the $55000 some early RX400 buyers paid.
If I trade the Pilot,I'll miss it,but I won't miss 12-15 mpg city.Charlie
You might come out alright over the life of your HH ,if you keep it a long time and plenty of miles-I'm assuming you were killed on trade etc.Still your break even could be a possible 150,000-175,000 miles-you would have never broken even if you traded your 03 High for a regular v-6 Highlander-with the HH there is that possibility.
I still think(but when CR come in with their numbers it will be more or less than"thought")that the HH will break even relative(now ignoring tax benefits and assuming a $6000 difference) to a V-6 highlander if you live in a city-suburban traffic area and keep it for 120,000 miles.You wil also have a "better" cleaner car for all those miles.Of course this is just my doodling until CR comes with real world numbers(unless you want to concede EPA numbers??)Charlie
HAS ANYONE OUT THERE GOTTEN A 20 MPG-OR LESS-FILLUP???
I have been tracking "fillups" on you folks.I have about 40 and the average is ~26mpg.The middle number is about that also.Now you early buyers are probably fairly mpg conscious,so maybe I'm getting biased numbers.Maybe folks who are getting poor numbers-like the NYT poison pen article-just are so disgusted they aren't inclined to post their numbers??
Give us you bad numbers!!??Please?!Now,we don't want instantenous low readings,just full fillup readings.
Frankly,I think the 26 mpg average isn't a bit biased.HH buyers are all going to be mpg conscious,and if early buyers are more so,it will be balanced out by even better mpg as they get more adept at maxing mpg .I think most of the buyers are new to Hybrids,so there must be a learning curve.I also don't picture anyone here being shy about complaining about poor mpg.
26 MPG is probably a very representative number.It certainly is in keeping with the Prius numbers which are about 48 mpg in mixed driving,or about 80% of EPA city.25 mpg would be 80% of 31 and 26.5 would be 80% of 33 mpg.
Any poor fillups out there in HH land.?Thanks.Charlie PS Still no CR numbers on the RX400 or HH.
At least a couple people reported those kind of numbers on the RX400h thread. They were treated like misfits and I have not seen them post again. These threads are dominated by pro hybrid posters. Anyone that does not fall into line is ostracized. So you will have a hard time finding posters that will admit to low mileage.
I would get about 325 miles to the tank of my old '03 highlander. (and that was almost pushing the red line!) Thankfully, I had made equity already on my 03, making about $3000 on the trade in. The resale value for my old Highlander was $19,500. Not bad, making out only after a couple years of payments!
Is this to be expected based on my short commute (I heard the engine needs to run a lot to get the catalytic converter up to temperature)? I also think that the A/C is killing my mileage.
I've been reading pieces about "pulse and glide" method. Will try this method as much as possible when I drive, but there's no way I'm going to convince my wife to do the same (she and I alternate driving our "nice car" to work). She's not technically-minded like me and just wants a car she can drive the "normal way" without thinking about it.
I'm still getting better mileage than I did in my 96 RAV4 2wd 5speed. Much smaller, lighter car, smaller engine, yet I was getting 16-18 mpg in the same exact driving conditions.
1st tank of gas got me 433 miles
2nd tank only 348, and the fuel light came on. Filled 14.4 Gal at the pump (Let the wife drive it for a few days alone)
Right now, I am trying to ease a little more from my current driving habits to maximize MPG. I am using cruise control a little more, and trying to coast on the road when I can. My goal is to beat my 1st fillup.
3000 miles ago, I was complaining like everyone else.
The tank is a big issue, too. I've now been able to get 3 gallons in after auto cut off. Other times one gallon and plenty of two extras. I see the Highlander groups talk about a 19.5 gallon tank. So, the cut off can vary . . . how can you measure that? I now fill till I can see the gasoline and I'm getting accurate readings.
And it's getting 29.5 without me trying with mainly hwy miles. I'm going fast (today 100mph for stretches because we were running late) and not trying to get good mileage but I am watching the computer to see when the engines kicking in and, when possible, backing off to keep it electric a minute longer, which doesn’t alter speed.
If I tried I could get better than EPA numbers. All you need is professional interior sound insulation, duct tape for the mirrors and extra dark window tint. Then you can drive it at the speed of a golf cart and you won’t hear the honking or see the obscene signs of other drivers.
:-)
Again, it could be so much better if they’d done this on the 4cyl engine they had in the Highlander and if they’d designed the electric motors for consumption, instead of quick acceleration (it always keeps a reserve incase you need to overtake a Ferrari).
But I am nearly convinced that it doesn't, in fact, get better mileage in city than hwy. I think they're the same and maybe hwy's better. Which is counter-counterintuitive.
My appreciation for what Toyota has done with this vehicle increases as the miles stack up. There may not be a lot of people that agree with me, but I would purchase a Highlander Hybrid over a standard Highlander regardless of gas mileage. I bought it for the gas mileage, but have come to enjoy the performance even more. The combination of the two is fantastic.
Wes
On the Grapevine, that was the first time ever where I felt that I didn't need to be concerned with people on my bumper. I drive that route typically once a year so from now on, I'm looking forward to it.
Unfortunately, you have hit on one of the problems with hybrid technology. The engine needs to warm up to get it's best mileage, so on short trips it can be pretty bad. A medium length commute would be far better. I suggest you check out the "driving tips" for optimizing mileage and see if you can't adjust your driving patterns to get better MPG.
BTW, I'm shocked at the 96 RAV4, my 2003 CR-V (a larger and heavier vehicle) gets 21-22 in driving such as you describe.