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Comments
A flush is the only way to replace all 10 quarts, because a simple drain only lets out 3.75 quarts. A flush also cleans which a drain does not. My dealer uses a BG machine:
"BG PF5 Power Flush and Fluid Exchange System... cleans all internal transmission components including torque converter, valve body assemblies, lines and cooler vanes."
http://www.bgprod.com/products/transmission.html
My local dealer does not have a flushing machine nor do they plan to get one since their factory rep told them SOA doesn't recommend the use of a flushing machine. I like the idea of flushing out the old fluid and [non-permissible content removed] but don't have a clue who can do it in my area. When I take it in for the 60k, I'm going to request that the external tranny filter be replaced. I don't care if they say it's supposed to be a lifetime filter, I want it replaced simply because there is no way that filter is supposed to remain free flowing for life. I'm sure there is clutch pack sludge buildup in the filter which will eventually restrict flow and may cause the clutch packs and bands to start slipping. That will lead to tranny failure down the road.
That sounds like a pretty good deal to me. At least, it should put you at ease regarding the possibility of future gasket leaks. You need to have it in writing, though!
I'm more bothered by a lack of cause (other than open deck design) than the actual problem. OCD kicking in I guess.........
If I had plenty of time on my hands, I'd take my own engine apart and find what could be causing this. I told her today it looked like the DS HG was showing signs of seepage again and asked her what the odds are I'd get 2 defective gaskets. Her response was a million to one. As I told her, I'm not faulting the tech or the servicing dealer for the new leak, unless I get evidence to the contrary. Wish I could find some UV dye to put in so I could tell if this is a current, ongoing leak or not.
That is only part of what the Service Schedule says. Footnote 9 says:
9. The ATF filter is a maintenance free part. The ATF filter needs replacement
only when it has physical damage or if the ATF has leaked.
One issue of Subaru's EndWrench publication says:
The transmission filter does not require service under normal conditions.
http://www.endwrench.com/pdf/drivetrain/02Winter4EATDiagServ.pdf
Another issue of EndWrench says:
The external oil filter requires no scheduled maintenance, although it can be changed if neces- sary. The new filter is in addition to the metal valve body screen found on previous models. The screen is still present and can be flushed...
http://www.endwrench.com/pdf/feb2004pdf/4EATPhase2.pdf
"... there is no way that filter is supposed to remain free flowing for life. I'm sure there is clutch pack sludge buildup in the filter which will eventually restrict flow..."
If sludge buildup in the filter was a problem, then the filterless transmissions from 2008-on avoid it by distributing the sludge throughout the transmission. Which is a good reason for a BG flush by the dealer:
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BG Quick Clean for Automatic Transmissions is a safe and effective solvent/dispersant cleaner that will quickly remove accumulated deposits from the valve body, filter screen and other automatic transmission components. This product is designed for use in the BG Power Flush and Fluid Exchange System.
The BG PF5 Power Flush and Fluid Exchange System dissolves and removes harmful deposits from... all internal transmission components including torque converter, valve body assemblies, lines and cooler vanes. and exchanges the old, oxidized ATF for new fluid...
http://www.bgprod.com/products/transmission.html
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I have not seen where Subaru recommends against flushing. My dealer flushes.
My dealer pushes the flushes. The flushing machine is an expensive investment, and does take some training to use. Maybe some dealers don't want to offer that service and badmouth it.
It is unlikely that SOA would really tell some dealers it was OK and others that it was not.
But...you had to have gotten a letter from SoA and used the coolant conditioner at a dealer, then the warranty was extended for 7/100 IIRC.
You may be past the 7 years, though, and did they ever send you a letter?
Our 02 Legacy was not covered, then again it never had a problem, either.
If my 2008 had still had an ATF filter, I would want it changed with a flush. It would become filled with the crud that the solvent and flushing was removing.
"... when I was a Honda/Acura tech... the mid-90's models didn't have a filter at all, just a screen inside to catch the large particles, thus the reason to do a drain/fill every 15k..."
The Subaru 4EAT has always had an internal screen. The draining the ATF does not lift and remove material from the screen.
Not officially. I think it helps if the car was serviced at a Subaru dealer every 30 months or 30,000 mile with new Subaru coolant and Subaru sealant additive. If the old coolant was left in for 90K miles, or replaced with the wrong type of coolant, or the sealant additive not used, Subaru might not be as generous.
jeff
If you are getting a crank position sensor code in conjunction with misfires in all cylinders, there is a very good chance that is the problem. If that sensor (or the camshaft sensor) is not sending, the ignition coil is not going to fire at the correct time.
How do you know if one of your head gaskets has blown or is broken? Is it as obvious as the engine making sounds that are not normal for a working engine (or just breaks down literally)? Or is it a slow process of continuous engine break down unnoticeable until it gets very expensive and finally yells "Are you blind? I'm right here!" when it's too late?
The whole thing with turbo engines falling apart after 500 or so miles or so has been fixed so far, right?
I'm sure I'm missing other common problems found in the Subaru Forester engine-wise. What did I miss? I know there's some turbo lag, according to one car review source (I forget the name). I'm assuming that's usually normal for turbocharged engines? There's always going to be some kind of lag regardless of how long it takes the turbo to finally kick in, right?
The older 2l turbos in the '02 WRX had more lag.
The 2.5l has AVCS plus more displacement. It's also not a high-pressure turbo, so it spools up quickly.
If you look at the torque curve of the 2.5l, it's enviable. Compared to, say, the benchmark V6 for this class, the RAV4's 2GR 3.5l V6, the torque peak arrives much sooner.
It takes years and tens of thousands of miles. It mainly affected Foresters before 2004. It is caused by the open deck design of the cylinder blocks, which stresses the gasket. That basic design has not changed, but Subaru has improved the gaskets and required a sealant to be part of the coolant.
There may be one or more of various signs:
1. Coolant seepage visible along the gasket seam on the under side of the head is usually the first sign, but only visible by getting under the car.
2. Loss of coolant from the overflow tank requiring topping up is what most people notice first.
3. Bubbles in coolant from exhaust gasses.
4. Oil residue in coolant.
5. Bubbles, foaming or discoloration of oil from coolant.
These happen very slowly, but if allowed to continue long enough to lower the coolant level and cause overheating, then the engine can be damaged.
"... The whole thing with turbo engines falling apart after 500 or so miles or so has been fixed so far, right? ..."
It was a limited run of VIN numbers. It often took thousand of miles to happen. The cars that were sold have mostly all been fixed by engine replacement, as very few cases are still turning up. The engines were not actually falling apart. It was disintegration of copper connecting rod bearing shells:
"... FHI have identified the problem as abnormal wear on con rod big end bearings..."
http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/f88/subaru-issues-turbo-stop-sale-certai- n-08-09-models-31757/index5.html#post372840
"... Turbo Engine Stop Sale checking Procedure.
Engine Screening Procedure Two... A) If there are copper particles larger that 1 mm in the material residue, the engine is damaged.... It may be necessary to clean the particles to determine if they are copper. Copper is reddish in color..."
http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/f88/subaru-issues-turbo-stop-sale-certai- n-08-09-models-31757/index10.html#post381869
If your car is under warranty would the dealership check for that each time you took it in for the regular 15,000 mile inspection?
"It was a limited run of VIN numbers. It often took thousand of miles to happen. The cars that were sold have mostly all been fixed by engine replacement, as very few cases are still turning up. The engines were not actually falling apart. It was disintegration of copper connecting rod bearing shells:"
Ah, yes. Sorry, I exaggerated a bit there. I just wasn't aware of what really happened when that occurred.
Most dealer service departments are always on the lookout for head gasket leaks, whether the car is under warranty or not. But an knowledgeable owner can spot the problem without waiting for the inspections.
Subaru has been good about partial reimbursement for head gasket replacement after the 5 years or 60,000 miles power train warranty is up. Especially if the car has been regularly maintained by a dealer with the proper coolant and sealant additive used and changed at the right intervals.
So when I hit the gas, the hesitation is for the trans to downshift. It has to because the engine isn't making much power at 1900rpm.
The Forester is geared shorter, so RPMs won't be so low, but it may go down one gear as well. The trans in our Forester is much quicker and more responsive than in our Toyota.
We don't own a turbo, but I have test driven one, and I felt like overall it was more responsive than the Sienna, simply because it picked the right gear a lot sooner.
Joking.
When I drove one, it felt more responsive not in how it downshifted, but because it did not have to downshift. The turbo has the torque to accelerate hard in 4th gear without triggering a downshift.
The events and findings sound like the rubber timing belt broke, which would cause the engine to suddenly die with valve damage. But if the belt broke, surely the mechanic would know it and say it.
A broken belt would cause the valves to hit the moving pistons, which would bend some valves and prevent compression. The mechanic may suspect this is what happened because he wants to look in through a spark plug holes at the damage. Unlike a leaking head gasket which occurs slowly and does not destroy the engine unless loss of coolant and severe overheating occurs, a broken timing belt causes severe internal damage. It requires a major engine rebuild, or another engine that is either used or remanufactured. A good used engine is often the easiest and cheapest solution.
The Sienna needs revs to get going, but when it does it is definitely quick.
At least it's fuel efficient at low rpm (tall gearing).
I wonder if he just removed the head for the cylinder that had no compression, or if he removed both heads, and whether he is proposing do something to all the valves or just that one valve.
A valve job is a maintenance action of lapping all the valves to improve their seating and compression. A bent valve needs a repair that addresses the cause of the bending. Likely there was a problem with the valve guide, so both guide and valve will be replaced. I wonder what caused that one valve guide to wear out so much that it let the valve wiggle, bind and bend. I would then feel less confident about the other valves.
The code can be a result of an inefficient cat, but can also be caused by other things, including old/fouled oxygen sensors. I had that code pop up intermittently for over 60,000 miles on my '96 Outback and the bi-annual "sniff test" performed for emissions compliance never indicated any reduction in cat efficiency through increased tailpipe emissions.
If your friend noticed a gradual drop in fuel economy in addition to the P0420 code, that is a fairly strong indicator that the oxygen sensors are in need of replacement since they are part of the fuel mixture's feedback loop.
The oil light came on. I checked the dipstick - oil was full and clean. I started hearing an intermittant whirring/humming/slight squeal for about 10 miles as I tried to make it home. I didn't hear valves clicking or upper engine noise so I kept going. The engine never overheated beyond normal. Then I heard the crunching of the oil pump falling apart, and the engine stalled. It turns over but has a loud knock when it starts. I turned it off again as soon as I heard the knock. I don't want to run it long enough to hold the brake, give it gas while in 1st gear to do a poor man's load test. :sick:
Could the oil pump make this sound or do you think it slipped a rod bearing that quickly?
Can I swap in a regular long block and use the turbo's external parts?
If so, what years would be compatible? Thanks
The short block on my 2002 forster was replaced. Does this mean they also changed the head gasket while fixing the block? So far I have not had any issues with the gasket but I've heard stories.
Thank you
fbk
The turbos have a semi-closed deck block, plus some different internals (forged connecting rods for starters).
Parts are different.
A local mechanic told me the oil pump bolts can loosen a half turn until they hit the casing. This is enough to lose pressure from bypass leakage.
I figure I should have stopped driving right away, tho' the oil level was good on the dipstick. I think there'd be little upper engine noise (from lack of oil flow) due to the overhead cam design - no lifters clattering.
So the mechanic and I are pretty confident I've spun a rod bearing.
Anybody know where I can get a good used (low miles too) XT engine for my 2004?
Thanks