Cadillac CTS/CTS-V

ctsjerry · May 2003

Someone posted the other day that they talked to "John" at Ronald Moran Cadillac about the car's computer "learning" how you drive and adapting to it. I had to ask John about it, so when I dropped by the Dealership yesterday we talked. He said the computer in the car adapts to the driving pattern of the driver. He said the average driver could care less about this, but for those who would like to reset their car's computer, the process is to drive the car at speed, quickly floor it, then quickly back off. After a few seconds, repeat again. The computer then goes into a "learning mode" and will adjust to your driving during the next 200 miles. Sounds weird, but I tried it. The car seems to be shifting better. Another anomaly went away that sort of bugged me: When I would put the car into SPORT MODE, it would only "stick" for 2 or 3 trips, then go back to normal operation. Since I did this simple process John recommended, the Sport Mode has remained on, after 5 or 6 engine starts and stops. I'm keeping an eye on this to see if the Sport Mode will stay on until I turn it off (that is what the Owner's Manual says it should do, but never worked for me). Warning: Be sure to do this only when it is safe to do so. I did this at about 30 mph and it seems to have done the trick.

A couple of more comments: the CTS throttle is a "fly by wire" type. That is, it's all electronic, with no mechanical connection. The computer controls everything. Sitting still, if you floor the pedal while in Park or Neutral, the engine will top out at about 3000 RPMs. You can't rev it up to 6000 RPMs, like you can do in other cars. This is a protection feature to prohibit the driver from popping it into gear and damaging the transmission. Or over-revving the engine and damaging it. Interesting huh?

More later... -Jer:>)

missouri2 · May 2003

calicadi, i am going to change my own oil in the next couple of weeks, getting ready for the road trip out west. i looked at the drain plug and it looks like a torx t40 torque head socket that you can buy any where. putting mobile 1 in. have used it for years and will use nothing else. has any one heard if k&n has a air filter yet for the cts.

fav002 · May 2003

If you are in the market for a 2003 CTS before the end of June, please see my post #3001. As a GM employee, I have discount certificates to give away that can get you a base automatic CTS with no options for $28,950 versus an MSRP of $31,200. Basically the deal is any GM vehicle for 4% over our employee discount price.

From your post it seems that you can already do better than MSRP, but if you want to save another $1,300 email me at FAV002@yahoo.com. I don't know how much the 04's will go up in price, but you'd be really lucky if your dealer honors 03 pricing on a 04 with the new engine.

For others interested in a certificate, this offer ends June 30th. It would be great if this incentive program was available when the CTS-V comes out, but I think that's highly unlikely. I have my deposit down at the Cadillac dealer for the V-series...still waiting for final pricing before making a commitment.

My CTS at the Race Track

thebug · May 2003

I believe I read somewhere, that orange is one of the colors chosen for instrument panels/clusters for safety/medical reasons. It is said that its intended purpose is to produce an adequately luminescent background while reducing ocular fatigue (one less glaring obstacle), thus enhancing the overall night visual field, and improving endurance during long night drives, or night driving in general.

I have one car with a blue back light. While sitting at the dealer on the night of pick up, I thought it was disgusting, but on the short drive home, I found it to be very relaxing and pleasnet to look at, and now when I'm not driving that car, I sorta miss the blue. I find that to be true of the orange background as well. So maybe there is a method to the madness.

thebug...

wwhite2 · May 2003

no slip or typo there it's what I call them

sevenfeet0 · May 2003

Did anyone have a problem with orange gauges? Doesn't BMW also do this? Were the focus groups on this issue that bad that this was one of the running changes they had to do?

Just curious...

oldsman01 · May 2003

BWM (and Pontiac) have used orange or amber instrument backlighting for years. I've heard the argument that it is easier on the eyes, but to me it just doesn't look as good. And I've never had a problem with traditional instrument lighting. On the Intrigue the gauges are "ice blue" at night and are very easy on the eyes. Had a car several years ago which had a digital instrument cluster and I had no problem with the blueish colored readouts. I personally like a white or light blue over orange. To me it just gives the car a more upscale look. If they could make one more change on the CTS, how about electroluminescent gauges like the Seville and DTS have. Then the CTS would be perfect:)

akirby · May 2003

The CTS does not have electronic throttle control (throttle by wire). It has a rev limiter which keeps it at 3K rpm in park or neutral (just like the 00-02 Lincoln LS) to avoid damaging the tranny as stated, but it does it by cutting fuel and/or spark. The new E class and 2003 Lincoln LS do have real electronic throttle control where the throttle is just a sensor feeding into the computer and the computer opens the throttle body accordingly. This allows the computer to control the throttle directly and coordinate it with the tranny shifting.

necros · May 2003

From: http://media.gm.com/division/2003_prodinfo/03_cadillac/03_cts/pr.- html

"The longitudinally mounted V6 features a stiffer, stronger cylinder block, forged steel crankshaft, improved lubrication, better cooling and higher fuel pressure delivery to improve fuel injectors. Aluminum cylinder heads feature an improved combustion chamber design to reduce unburned hydrocarbons and a drive-by-wire throttle system for better emissions performance."

And the tech inspectors at the latest autocross had a heck of a time finding my throttle return spring.

32caddy · May 2003

I think we have all seen the ad where the woman driver gets out wearing a right foot sneeker. Well my wife wears a LEFT foot one so she can be more comfortable with the clutch!! How's that one??

fjk57702 · May 2003

With continuously variable valve timing, the throttle is usually electronic so the throttle opening and valve timing can be coordinated to minimize emmissions and fuel consumption.

ctsjerry · May 2003

Did I mis-speak! So what is the offical word on the CTS throttle?

The GM Media release seems to back-up my comments: "The longitudinally mounted V6 features a stiffer, stronger cylinder block, forged steel crankshaft, improved lubrication, better cooling and higher fuel pressure delivery to improve fuel injectors. Aluminum cylinder heads feature an improved combustion chamber design to reduce unburned hydrocarbons and a drive-by-wire throttle system for better emissions performance."

If I'm wrong, thanks for the correction, as I hate to mis-state things. -Jer:>)

ctsjerry · May 2003

This is of course a matter of personal choice, but I prefer either orange or blue over white. The white seems too harsh (As I mentioned earlier, I saw one the other day). Forgive me for showing my age, but I still remember that the State of California said back in the 1950's that the most easily read license plate color combination was yellow-orange & black. This was after extensive testing. That was why the State chose that combination from the late 1920's till about 1968. Of course now the State has gone to reflective plates, so the yellow-orange color is out. Anyways, I think the earlier model orange (or blue) is easier on the eyes. Drop by the Dealership and take a look at the newer CTSs and see what you think. -Jer:>)

tvdirec · May 2003

I personally like the orange backlit guages. White seems to harsh for my taste. Just received my first issue of Cadillac's Vision magazine. Nice little story in there about the plant in East Lansing. How the workers themselves are taking great pride in building a really great car. Also, a good sidebar on how they paint the cars. Robotics do most of the painting. Pretty interesting.

tyler80 · May 2003

The plant where the Cadillac CTS is manufactured is in Lansing, Michigan and last year I had the privilage of touring it during a city wide 'Be A Tourist In Your Own Town' program. The tour went through almost every aspect of how the CTS gets put together. The line had been stopped so you could get up close to the vehicles on the line to see how each phase of assembly was done. I've also toured one of the older GM plants and I can say there is truly a huge difference between the two. You can certainly see the effects of the $560 Million GM spent in Lansing Grand River plant. Even more cool was the fact that you could talk with people who worked on the line about the CTS and see in the way they talked and how happy they were to put together such an awesome vehicle.

akirby · May 2003

Well they sure are keeping it a secret. It isn't mentioned on Edmunds or on the Cadillac website or a couple of others I checked. You'd think a feature like that would be heavily advertised. I stand corrected.

jemiller · May 2003

Very common these days. Almost more notable if a medium/high-end car doesn't have it now.

ctsjerry · May 2003

Tyler is 100% right. I don't know if many of you have seen the video put out by Cadillac of how the 2003 CTS is built. The video is AWESOME. It shows the robotic painting process and has discussions with the line workers and Team Leaders. They are very excited about the new CTS and really want it to succeed. All of the workers have 10 to 20 years of experience, and have been hand selected by GM to work on the CTS line. The whole process is apparently a new concept infofar as the Management and Union relationship. It shows how the car body is assembled as a complete painted shell, then all the trim & interior is added. The complete drive line is on a robotic dolly, and comes up from below to mate with the finished body. As I recall it takes about 27 hours to build a CTS. By the end, this video makes you feel very proud to buy this new American product. I was lucky to get a copy of this video from my buddy and fellow CTS owner "DarkKnight". He found his original copy on ebay, but I've had no luck in locating an original copy. Anyone have any connections to get us all one? -Jer:>)

ctsjerry · May 2003

I got my copy in the mail the other day too. Is this a new thing for Cadillac owners? If so, I congratulate Cadillac on deciding to print this. We bought our '91 Caddy new, but never saw this magazine before. There doesn't seem to be a Volume number and Issue number noted anywhere. Anyways, nice articles. This magazine is a keeper. -Jer:>)

j1205 · May 2003

After 1000 miles, I noticed my first scratch- it was on the driver door, about 4 inches long. Then I noticed 4 more just like it on the front fender, the back door and the back fender. I felt sick.

I took it to the dealer and asked them to have their "ding/paint" specialist look at it while they replaced my radio for its high pitched hum on FM and took off the dash lens to clean it on the inside. Paint guy said he wouldn't touch it. The dealer then went to their affiliated Chevy body shop next door and they gave me a $1400 estimate to paint the whole driver side. I have the Red Garnet paint. It makes me sick to my stomach.

After 2 days and a new radio from GM, the radio still hums so they still have the car.

I want the car to look like new again. Am I dreaming? Where can I get the best result to try to match the paint? Are GM dealers the only place to go? Can Maaco do quality work? Money is not really the object. The car is brand new and I plan to have it for a long time.

Forlorn in Virginia.

sevenfeet0 · May 2003

Ask them if you can see some of their handywork from their other customers firsthand, in bright light. As a GM dealership, ask them about the ability to match the original paint. And make sure they stand behind their work.

jemiller · May 2003

You're looking for a shop that does good-quality production/insurance-type work.

Maaco typically is *not* it. The dealer's shop may be, but isn't necessarily. Nor does it have to be a "GM shop" - many if not most dealerships send their bodywork out to independents anyway and everyone gets the same color data. Check BMW and Audi message boards and see what recommendations you can get there. I've had my best results dealing with medium-sized independent shops.

Most shops make their livings off insurance jobs, but not all are created equal - some are MUCH better than others. Surface preparation, attention to detail, and VERY careful color matching are critical, and you want a shop that knows how to remove and reinstall trim and moldings and mirrors and etc. PROPERLY.

Are you putting in an insurance claim on this? Getting insurance companies to pay for properly removing/reinstalling trim moldings, etc. can be a PITA.

thebug · May 2003

Isn't color matching done by computer nowadays?

thebug...

b4z · May 2003

Cadillac gets serious!

http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=6049&sid=17- 3&n=156

mannytranny · May 2003

Still heard nothing from the dealer so I went to ask why the delay. Service advisor said that the problem with the surround was a manufacturing defect and GM has changed suppliers.
     They looked at all CTSs on their lot and found 3 with the same problem. We've had a lot of cloudy days here with rain or showers on and off for over a week with more to come. The problem is quite noticeable now. The moisture really shows on the surround.
     The advisor claims that GM knows about the problem and has known so some time that it was a supplier defect. The part is on back order until July. The part replacement cost is near $600.
     The TSB that you referred to was for another leak problem and not just the surround moisture. No mention about sealant as a fix just a new part.

j1205 Sorry to hear about the scratches. I have a scratch on the front of the hood and asked about getting it fixed. They want $300 to paint the entire hood. They will not do just a scratch even though it is only about an inch long.
      I'm not sure if the CTS vandals are running amuck but I just had an egg thrown at my car earlier this A.M. right on the parking pad. So it had to be someone walking by. The kids are still going to school and have about three weeks to go yet. Luckily I saw it and cleaned it off before damage was done to the paint. Mine is a black CTS.

sevenfeet0 · May 2003

You know, I would have been more than happy with Cadillac keeping the CTS-V up with the BMW M3, Audi S4 and C32 AMG for performance numbers. But 500 HP? Geeeeezzzz. If they are seriously looking at that for 2006, then what pray tell is in store for the STS and STS-V? Or the XLR-V? This could get pretty silly in terms of available power all around. If Cadillac continues down this trend, no one will be questioning their ability to reclaim a share of market leadership in the eyes of luxury car buyers.

b4z · May 2003

I think I would be pretty happy with a 255 hp CTS that goes 0-60 in underr 6.5 secs.

500 hp is just plain scary.

That is like 650 hp in 1960s horsepower.

richw5 · May 2003

but those "well placed sources" for the Car Connection article may have been given the job of keeping Cadillac in the news.

The CTS-V is Cadillac's "entry level super car". The next generation should get the Northstar V8 (Turbo?) engine and stay at 400 plus horsepower. It's Cadillac's M3.

The STS-V should get a "turbo or "Twin Turbo" version of the Northstar at 500 horsepower. Maybe, just maybe, the V12 will be used instead of the V8. It's Cadillac's M5.

A Cadillac "Super Coupe" will be produced with the V16 engine, followed by "Sixteen" style sedan. Probably 750 horsepower.

Government regulation, oil prices and/or insurance costs could change the all of the above in the blink of an eye.

Just my thoughts.

b4z - I agree, but I want 260 hp. My Vette was awesome with 345 hp at WOT (Wide Open Throttle). I can't even imagine 400 hp in the CTS or 500 hp in anything else. It's scary and probably dangerous.

My wife hit a goose driving home from work the other day. No damage to the CTS and the goose walked away. The rubber air dam pulled loose, but I was able to put it back in place without a problem.

Rich

b4z · May 2003

The Olds Aurora has 250 hp but it shifts 400 rpms short of redline.
The CTS will shift 300 rpms short of the fuel cut off.

Sometimes hp ratings can be misleading.
I will guarantee that the CTS will be as quick as the G35.

Looks like the CTS will use every one of it's 255 ponies. Which should make for a quick car.

jemiller · May 2003

These news pieces are at this point more just PR-teaser fluff than serious detail. Still, a 6-liter 500HP pushrod motor would be sweet. The current LS6 has good part-throttle BSFC numbers, I expect its EPA mileage numbers aren't going to be too bad (of course, that depends on your standard of comparison, our M5 gets 17mpg and I'm content with that.)

I'm more likely a CTSv customer as long as they're using the Corvette motors than if they went Northstar, and I'm more likely a CTSv customer as long as they're normally aspirated vs turbo.

I still don't buy the CTSv as M3-competition - it's just flat too big. The S4 and C32 are a little closer to the mark - although they're still a fair bit smaller - I don't think your typical C32 driver was ever a serious potential-M3 customer. Just very different cars.

mannytranny · May 2003

Have a great Memorial Holiday Weekend everyone!

wwhite2 · May 2003

really sorry to hear about your scratches I have a garnet pearl coat and I dread my first major scratch .You have a real problem unless you find a good body shop ,it will never never match it's not just "computer color matching " it's also the reflectivity of the clear coat. A flat rate shop will never never match ,they wont want to spend the time to do it correctly if they are capable . if possible keep the factory paint .

bingoman · May 2003

Just read about another 100 car crash in Western Maryland in heavy fog. Two dead and many injured.

When are they going to give us European style rear fog lamps to reduce these multi-car pile ups in dense fog. You can blame the drivers for driving to fast in unsafe conditions, but you can also reduce their severity with proper equipment. Most of the hardware is already installed in the CTS. That's what those two areas under the backup lamps in the rear panel are for. I sure would like to get the rest of the equipment, the lamps and the wiring, to install myself.

oldsman01 · May 2003

The Aurora was also a rather portly car at close to 4000 lbs. And it only had a 4 speed automatic. I'm thinking low 6s on the CTS with the 3.6. And thats why I'm thinking of just waiting on the 04 model. Guess Cadillac quickly got tired of looking at those cheezy Prius-looking taillights on the G35:)

thebug · May 2003

Having fog lights probably wouldn't prevent this type of accident, nor would they make the severity lesser. Even if they were installed, you'd have to get people to turn them on, and then get them to pay attention. This is a common occurance in Europe. Happens more often than we care to know. They only put the really bigs ones (100 +) on the news.

I personally had one experience on the autobahn (A-6) on a foggy day. New in country, hopped on the autobahn for my normal drive to work, could barely see the front of my car. While at about 60 mph, several cars passed at, at least double that speed, took the next exit, and never got on the autobahn again on a foggy day.

I couldn't see their headlights coming up through the rearview mirror, so I know they couldn't see me. Even with the fog lights on. Imagine this in a gray or gray like car. It's just by chance that I wasn't in the hammer lane. I think people just don't care when there's a hazard. We tend to think, that'll never happen to me.

I sometimes say to friends that do dangerous things, "you're the kinda people we see on the news".

thebug...

wwhite2 · May 2003

wont be that far off from the manual transmission and it's final drive ratio

b4z · May 2003

What did the redneck say before he died?

Watch this!!

jemiller · May 2003

wwhite2: I assume you meant 6.3? For 3.6 sec you need 500 ft/lb and some 305mm slicks (and a stronger rear suspension, driveshafts, transmission, etc.)

fog lights: The problem here is that a whole lot of Americans generally don't know how to drive. That includes all the little details like WHEN to use fog lights, driving lights, etc. So you put this stuff in the cars and a significant proportion of the fools on the road go out and runs around with them on all the time, and another significant chunk can't even be bothered to turn on their headlights when it's pouring rain so why would they bother trying to find another switch?

dindak · May 2003

"Americans generally don't know how to drive".

It's a problem everywhere, not just in the U.S.

;-)

bigguyjer · May 2003

It's a little early yet, but, I will be turning in this fall my leased Lexus GS400. I love the car but will not go Lexus again because '04 GS400/300 is basically the same car I have now; my wife has an ES300 and LS430 is too pricey for our budget.

My wife and I have had 4 Lexus products and are a bit spoiled with Lexus quality and service.

In considering a different car, we have decided to go with a 6 cylinder version, automatic with premium options; i.e. moonroof etc.

We are considering the following: Lincoln LS6, Jaguar X-Type 3.0, and Cadillac CTS 3.6 (coming out in 04).

We would appreciate your experience and comments on quality, service, reliability and performance on the above automobiles.

Also, we hear that some domestic manufacturers give a special discount (on top of negotiated deal)for customers who leave foreign manufacturers; i.e. Toyota, Honda, etc; to purchase domestic products. Is that true and how do we find out about these programs.

Thanks to all who take time to respond.

bingoman · May 2003

They may not be wonderful, but they are better than nothing, and they just might warn someone in time to avoid smashing into your rear end, which just might stop a few others from piling on.

Most drivers may be idiots but we still have to live (I hope) with them on the road. Better driver licensing regulations might help, but we already know that 90% of the drivers on the road are better than average, or at least they think so. LOL!!

oldsman01 · May 2003

Seems I read somewhere on here that Cadillac was offering an additional discount for "conquest sales" which are basically non-Cadillac customers. Not sure if this is true or not. I guess it could be another incentive for the car, but IMO Cadillac does not need to offer such. The car itself is more than enough recommendation. Between the 3 you mentioned, I'd go with the 04 CTS. The Jag X-type is a sharp looking little sedan and does offer AWD, but it can get a bit pricey with options added on. And it's basically a Ford Mondeo underneath. The Lincoln LS is not a bad car, but the V8 is the way to go there. I don't think the LS's V6 will hold a candle to the CTS's upcoming 3.6 liter V6. As for quality, I have been visiting this board for over a year now and reading what actual owners of the CTS are saying and problems they are reporting. What has impressed me is that there are very few recurring problems with this car and nothing major thus far. Visit many other forums and you'll see the same problems being reported over and over. This is certainly the case with my current car(Olds Intrigue) as many different owners report the same problems. This forum and others seems to bode well for the quality of the CTS, especially considering that it is a totally new design built at a totally new plant. Now if only GM would build their other cars with this level of quality. If you haven't already, test drive a CTS to get an initial impression of the car then wait for the 04 to go shopping. As it is now, the CTS is a mighty impressive car to drive. I've test driven one twice and may take GM up on their 24 hour test drive offer with one.

oldsman01 · May 2003

Are why I like a car that is of decent size and performs well in an accident. While some complain the CTS is a bit heavy for it's size, I have no complaint there are I like a car that is solid for the reason of you never know who is driving the other car on the road.

irnmdn · May 2003

Doesn't Cadillac offer owner loyalty discount too?
Seems like GM is just looking for excuses to offer discounts - speaks volumes about their products.

golfnut5 · May 2003

I took delivery of a new 2003 CTS this past Friday. Blue Onyx with luxury package, bose music system, auto trans, bright finish wheels and heated seats. Total vehicle price was $35,960. Talked dealer down to $200 over invoice which brought price to $33,426 and received $1,000 conquest discount (traded Ford product). On top of all of this, I applied $2,700 in GM Card rebates. The CTS is fun to drive and has a feel of quality. This is my first Cadillac and I like the four year 50,000 mile warranty. I feel the Driver Information Center is too busy, but people like gadgets.

mannytranny · May 2003

Congrats on the new CTS

Great deal!!!!!!!! Hope you enjoy the ride. it's a great car.

Have fun driving this holiday weekend. Can't wait to hear back after you put some miles on.

JNorthstar · May 2003

Took a CTS today for the 24HR test drive. What a surprise. I am impressed. Having owned alot of makes of cars, foreign and domestic, Cadillac hit the target with this car. The interior materials are of good quality. The textures are soft and grainy to the touch. The body is bank vault solid. And that chassis, wow, handles like it is on rails. Kudos, goes to the drivetrain. That 5 speed automatic shifts immediately when called upon, holds the gears to redline, and will decelerate like a manual when backing off the accelerator. The engine does make sweet sounds winding out to redline and has sufficient power, unless you plan on drag racing. That said, I am returning the car tomorrow, and I know there are several new builds in the pipeline, with the equipment I am looking for, being delivered to the dealership next week. Depending on how the negotiations work out, I plan on purchasing one.
P.S. I found driving the CTS addictive. Went looking for some two lane roads.

thebug · May 2003

Congrats on your purchase, you're going to love it. You got a great deal. I've only seen two in blue in my area. What color interior did you get?

I will have my CTS back by Wednesday. Took it in to have the custom dual exhaust system installed. The holiday weekend added a day or two to the installation process. Can't wait.

bingoman: I agree, it would help to have rear fog lights, but even better with some type of automatic on/off system like the auto headlights on with wiper usage feature on the CTS. Not sure how they would swing that though.

thebug...

thebug · May 2003

I don't know much about the other cars you listed, but the CTS is WOW!!! What a car. GM has hit the mark on this one. If you read through the post of current owners, you will find very few complaints.

I think the biggest complaint is the fact that most of us have two clocks that are out of sync (one is a little slow), and no temp gage. This has been corrected with the 04 CTS. I think it has a temp gage now, in place of the clock. As I read through other boards, I see a remarkable difference in owner satisfaction.

I've had my CTS for six months now @12,500 miles. Not a single problem. Can't seem to put the darn thing away. Love driving this car. And now you can go with the CTSv that offers even more.

I don't think you'll be disappointed. Test drive one and let us know what you think.

thebug...

wwhite2 · May 2003

You will really like the CTS . I cant wait to drive mine and cant believe how seamlessly the miles "click off" . Good Luck, Bill

Cadillac CTS/CTS-V

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