Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

Mercedes 380--450--560 SLs

1567810

Comments

  • merc85merc85 Member Posts: 8
    Yep you're right on the expense ... but the car will be staying in the family forever ... It is set in my estate and will be handed down continuously ... (hopefully barring any major catastrophe) ... There are several good body restoration guys out there so I am sure even going the restoration process without the frame off would work as well. It just has to be right. The biggest problem yet though is getting this darn rev's down and the light working properly!

    The car sits for approximately 6 months of the year and then is driven a limited amount during the other six months ... I am wondering if the fact that it sits in storage that long might have an effect on the rev's and the light etc?
  • freshairfiendfreshairfiend Member Posts: 28
    I can understand that you have a sentimmental attachment to the car, but that would be the only basis on which to go for a frame off restoration. It is just not financially feasible to justify such an expense for a 107. If the car is in relatively good shape with no rust etc it would make sense to do whatever repairs and maintenance are needed to bring it up to par. Even a good paint job will run you around $5,000 and if the original paint is pretty good, there's not much point. Taking an "85 to a Mercedes dealer is pretty pointless as their technicians are comparatively ignorant about anything more than10-15 years old. I don't know of a good shop in Vancouver though there must be one and the local Mercedes club members must know at least one. There's an excellent guy in Nanaimo that I use and another in Qualicum that has been recommended to me twice. If you're stuck and can handle the ferry I'd be glad to pass on the contact information
  • freshairfiendfreshairfiend Member Posts: 28
    I can understand that you have a sentimmental attachment to the car, but that would be the only basis on which to go for a frame off restoration. It is just not financially feasible to justify such an expense for a 107. If the car is in relatively good shape with no rust etc it would make sense to do whatever repairs and maintenance are needed to bring it up to par. Even a good paint job will run you around $5,000 and if the original paint is pretty good, there's not much point. Taking an "85 to a Mercedes dealer is pretty pointless as their technicians are comparatively ignorant about anything more than10-15 years old. I don't know of a good shop in Vancouver though there must be one and the local Mercedes club members must know at least one. There's an excellent guy in Nanaimo that I use and another in Qualicum that has been recommended to me twice. If you're stuck and can handle the ferry I'd be glad to pass on the contact information
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,685
    Sounds like a neat plan. Here's a thought, though: might the car be more meaningful if kept in carefully-maintained original condition? A 'frame-off' restoration will result in something close to brand new, with the marks/scratches/bumps/etc. (the history of the car) removed. I just know I enjoyed all the 'character' my dad's antique car acquired as I grew up, compared to a fully-restored prize-winner.

    Just a thought.
  • burdawgburdawg Member Posts: 1,524
    edited August 2010
    When you say uncontrolled high revs what do you mean exactly? How high? I'm not sure on an 85, but if it has mechanical fuel injection it's a sure bet it has a mechanical cold start fast idle control that is probably controlled by the coolant temperature. It basically just allows air to pass around the intake air control valve independent of the throttle. Over time they get corroded and can cause idle problems, but I don't know if I would describe it the way you have. When I have had problems with it in the past the idle would hover from normal, about 600rpm to 1100 or 1200rpm. Also, the rubber hoses that connect the valve to the intake could be hard or deteriorated and allowing air to pass into the intake around the valve.
  • merc85merc85 Member Posts: 8
    Sorry been away travelling .. but I think you might be spot on with this diagnosis. I will check into that for sure. That is exactly where the car goes to and from in RPM's
  • merc85merc85 Member Posts: 8
    Another great point by the way. I enjy driving the car cause I can smell my Dad in it ... its a good smell by the way ... but just that feeling of knowing he was in it is something that can't be replaced and would be lost if I restored it in the manner I discussed earlier.
  • merc85merc85 Member Posts: 8
    Wold you know anyone in the Mercedes club here in Vancouver ... preferrably West Vancouver. At least that way, I could start to meet some of the guys and see what they think about the few mechanical situations. They may even know someone locally who is trustworthy and knowledgeable.
  • freshairfiendfreshairfiend Member Posts: 28
    Sorry, I don't know anyone in the Vancouver club and when I looked up the website of the Vancouver section of the MBCA there were no contact names or numbers. Whether this means that they are inactive is anyone's guess. I was given the name of a Mercedes specialist on the lower mainland with a good reputation though, and it might be well worth your while to at least contact and talk to them - unfortunately not in West Van but I hope North Van is not too inconvenient for you. The name is
    Scan Automotive, 1118 E3rd St. North Vancouver. Phone# 604-980-4542. Best of luck and if you ever cruise over to the island, let me know.
  • merc85merc85 Member Posts: 8
    Hey thanks for this info. I was going to give Vaughn a call as well... he is a friend of mine at Vancouver Mercedes Benz. He might know of a club member or a club for that matter. I will drop by Scan Automotive and have a chat. Is there anyone there in particular I should ask for?

    I will definitely drop you a line the next time we go for a cruise over to the Island!
  • freshairfiendfreshairfiend Member Posts: 28
    Until I enquired around and was given the recommendation I had never even heard of them so have no idea who you should ask for. Hopefully they'll be able to fix you up though
  • freshairfiendfreshairfiend Member Posts: 28
    I have heard about a pulley arrangement specifically for 107 hardtop removal and replacement that is comparatively easy to set up in a normal garage. Does anyone have any information on this subject such as where one can be found and approximate cost? I haven't actually used my hardtop since I bought the car but probably would if it was not such a pain to take it off and put it back on. I understand that the hoist in question can be easily operated by one person. Any info would be appreciated.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
  • freshairfiendfreshairfiend Member Posts: 28
    edited October 2010
    Boy, that was quick! Thanks for the info. While we're in touch, do you have any information regarding a compatible supercharger for a 280SL or is it just a bad idea?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well it's not for me to tell you it's a *bad* idea....even though I often do tell people that "if you want a faster car, just go buy one" :)

    I did see a nicely done installation of a Ford 289/V8 into a 280SL and a supercharged GM V-6 in a 190SL, but neither of these projects were *cheap* by any stretch.

    I'd say that a custom-fitted turbocharger would be easier to configure and design, and less expensive. But I've never seen one.
  • freshairfiendfreshairfiend Member Posts: 28
    edited October 2010
    You're quite right regarding buying a faster car. In fact I originally went looking for an '85-'89 500SL but found an '85 280SL with the makings of a cream puff and went that route. I have never really regretted it and have no desire to change but there are times when a little extra kick would be nice. My experience of turbos is that without an intercooler they are not terribly effective and that could take up quite a bit of space. I thought I would investigate the possibilities of adapting a Kompressor from one of the newer C series but only if everything can be worked out without in any way wrecking what I now have. Thanks for your comments
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,685
    Instead of the Kompressor, an easier route would be to look at aftermarket supercharger vendors, they might be able to work something up that would be correctly sized, etc. That said, I'd just make sure it's in top tune, wax it, and enjoy it as-is.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,097
    I don't know what you could do with the supercharger off a 4, the supercharged 6cyl models are somewhat rare and likely such a part is not easy to find. It might be easier to just find another entire powertrain if you want a more powerful engine.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    If your engine has any flaws, a SC or turbo will find them right quick.

    I know they used to rally-race 280SLs in the old days, but I have no idea how they made them go faster. I'd imagine you could mill the head, find a better camshaft and run dual Webers along with better exhaust, but that's going to a lot of $ per horsepower.

    The nice thing about turbo power is that it is cheap for what you get in gain.

    Okay, so you have the 280SL with the 450SL body style---in that case, have at it---that car is not going to be worth lots of money, so not problem in "ruining" it for the purists.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,097
    Yeah, it's a 107 - no racer, just a nice cruiser.

    If I wanted a better engine for one of those, I'd try to find a V8 out of a W210 E55 AMG (or even a C43), or for cheaper and easier, the M103 I6 out of a W124 or late W126 - the latter was actually offered on Euro cars, and would likely be an easy fit.
  • freshairfiendfreshairfiend Member Posts: 28
    Thanks for the suggestions Fintail. Problem is I would like to keep the car as original as possible and a turbo or supercharger can be taken off pretty easily while an engine swap is a whole different deal. As you state, it's a great cruiser and I didn't really buy it as a dragster so maybe I'd just better settle for what it is
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,097
    That's what I would do. Frankly, I think the engine mods or swaps would be a huge pain and a waste of time and money. It's not meant to be a speed demon anyway - it can keep up with traffic just fine, as long as the engine in the car has no serious needs - let it be.
  • burdawgburdawg Member Posts: 1,524
    On the 280 dohc you can get offset woodruff keys for the cams to vary the cam timing. That's the reason the euro 280 cars have so much more power than the US spec cars. I don't know about an 85 but the earlier 80's 280 dohc US spec cars had around 140 bhp, as opposed to over 170 for euro spec cars.
    It's not a job for the faint at heart though, MB manuals show the procedure and specify measuring the valve to piston clearances as part of the procedure.
  • freshairfiendfreshairfiend Member Posts: 28
    According to the owner's manual the "85 shows 185hp @5,800rpm. The car is far from sluggish, especially when compared to the US version of the 380SL but could sometimes use just a touch extra oomph. For what is involved in providing a little more get up and go at slower speeds, it is probably better to let well enough alone but thanks for the information anyway. She has plenty of passing power at cruising speeds.
  • funzone2funzone2 Member Posts: 6
    I have a 1996 SL500 w/40K miles. It usually runs great. Recently, I started it and drove down the street. As I hit the accelerator, the car hesitated and then bucked/backfired in the engine area. It did it a few times. Then it stalled. I pushed it to the roadside and came back and it restarted. Took it home. The same thing happened a few days later. Then, I was able to start it and SLOWLY take it on the road. It backfired only when I gave the pedal a push. It almost stalled. But, if I let it get up to speed slowly, it would't buck or stall. I kicked it up to about 90 mph. and no problem. But, slowly moving and trying to quickly accelerate, I get that backfire and stall. Any good Benz men out there?-- Thanks
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,685
    Being a '96 it should have OBDII computer readout - you might be able to get it scanned for free at a car parts store, let us know what codes it shows.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,097
    Did any check engine/idiot lights come on when this happened?

    My old W126 behaved like that once, but the dashboard lit up at the same time. Some relay had failed, easy DIY fix - but it didn't have the same engine as your car.
  • funzone2funzone2 Member Posts: 6
    Thanks for the reply fintail. No lights came on. Nothing indicating a problem
  • funzone2funzone2 Member Posts: 6
    Thanks Texases. I'll call a parts store and see if they know what an OBDII is--I sure don't-lol and I'll see if there is any type of code that is involved with the situation
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,097
    Could be a number of things - fuel delivery, vacuum system, timing, ECU...best to have it scanned then.
  • seaplanedriverseaplanedriver Member Posts: 3
    I know this was discussed probably years ago here, but does anybody have anything against the original '72 350SL? If so, what's the best year/model to look for and what mileage? The '72 does IMHO look nicer without the extendabumpers (Thank you DOT). I've been around these cars since '72 but never owned one. Driven a few and liked the ride, the feeling of a solid car, the power (of the 450) and the look. By reading all your posts, it is clearly not something to jump into without research. Example: local beautiful '84 with 55,000 orig. miles. What do we expect or can we?
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,685
    As I understand it the '72 350s (4.5l v8) are tops on collectability, while the 560s are tops on practicality for modern use. I'd skip the 380s and 450s.
  • freshairfiendfreshairfiend Member Posts: 28
    Don't know much about the original 350SL except that the same car appeared a year later as a 450SL. If you are interested in the appearance of the slimline bumpers, bear in mind that all the Euro (grey market) models never went the extended bumper route. There are several opinions pro and con the Euros, but having owned one for 6 years I can tell you it attracts a lot more attention than the US 107's and there is quite a bit more engine choice together with an occasional stickshift. The car I bought needed sprucing up and in doing this I have never had a problem in accessing spares. If I were going to do it all again, I would definitely look at the Euros before anything else.
  • seaplanedriverseaplanedriver Member Posts: 3
    So, being a guy that always heard that gray market cars were disallowed by DOT/EPA into the good old U.S., is there a means now by which I could look for and purchase a Euro version as freshairfiend indicates. Sounds like an awesome new look at the car from my perspective.
  • freshairfiendfreshairfiend Member Posts: 28
    The car I bought was out of Nevada and had an aftermarket catalytic converter which enabled it to pass the necessary smog tests. At the same time though I was looking at several in California, all of which were on the road at the time, so I have to assume that they also conformed to the California requirements. the Euro versions of both the 500SL and the 380SL have better performance than their US equivalent (though the later 560SL's went pretty well) but as I was looking more for a tourer/roadster than a rubber burner, I ended up with a 280SL which is a dohc inline 6 making about 30hp more than the US 380SL. It's also not at all bad on gas which is more than can be said about the 560SL. I would have liked a stickshift but the only ones available at that time had been tramped pretty hard so I ended up with a 4 spd auto. No real regrets though, it does everything I want and is a real honey on the highway.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,097
    If they are in equal condition, I'd choose the older car - nicer trim (bumpers) and less finicky emissions junk. I think some years of the 450SL, maybe 75-76, can be troublesome.

    You could privately import any car that is 25+ years old, but it'd be an expensive undertaking.

    A highline dealer in my town has a grey market 107 of some sort in the showroom, it even has headlight wipers. It looks spotless.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    It doesn't matter if a Euro car passes smog or not--it has to have its DOT and EPA papers regarding conformance to all safety and emissions regs, or the car could be confiscated.

    I wouldn't *touch* a Euro car that doesn't have its DOT or EPA papers.

    Some of course, are older than 25 years, so no problem, and some are titled as older years than they actually are, --also to beat EPA/DOT requirements. You'll see ads for instace like "spec 2000, year 1964 Mini Cooper".
  • seaplanedriverseaplanedriver Member Posts: 3
    Thanks again. Don't want headaches I don't need! I was looking at a '72 on a site (just google '72 M B 350SL and you'll see it in Atlanta/Charlotte/GA) and you'll see the car. Looks nice but they call it "Burgundy".. Looks like burnt orange on my pc. At $17,500 it's not over the top price wise, but...???
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited March 2011
    Maybe it was repainted a non-stock color?

    Looks pretty nice, but they all do, in photos. You need eyeballs on the car to know what it really is, or is not.

    Here's the LISTING for those who couldn't find it.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,097
    I can't find the listing, but for that money the car really needs to be immaculate with no issues at all.
  • freshairfiendfreshairfiend Member Posts: 28
    I agree with what Mr Shiftright says regarding the DoT stuff, however if a Euro car is a 107 (minimum 22 years old) and is driven on a regular basis it would have been confiscated long ago if it in any way did not conform to standards. I have to admit that some modifications to US standards were badly done and that could result in problems. If the mods were done properly as most were , the Euros have no more problems than any other 107 and there is no doubt that the slimline bumpers and the square headlights add to the appearance. One proviso, of course, would be to buy from a reliable source and to check the car out thoroughly before parting with any cash, but that holds true for any used car. The 350SL as listed does look good though and that year still had good horsepower. It is also 38 years old not 28 as advertised. Good luck whichever way you go.
  • freshairfiendfreshairfiend Member Posts: 28
    So you are saying that as long as the car has EPA/DoT papers all is well?
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,685
    edited March 2011
    Re Euro SLs - what about getting replacements for parts that are different from the US versions, engine parts in particular?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yep, or if it's 25 years or older, that's also okay.

    Of course, the EPA/DOT can change the game any time it wishes, like it did with the Nissan Skyline gray market cars. But that won't happen with old Benzes like this.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,097
    With the internet and even the ability of dealers to order most anything, if you have a part number you'll get your part. Mechanical parts are the easiest to find for old MB.

    The EPA/DOT BS always makes me laugh, when in real first world countries the grey market restrictions aren't nearly so tight. I wonder who bought those laws, and how much is wasted enforcing them.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Depends. Australia's rules for importing are pretty strict regarding safety regs, and Sweden has stricter emissions regulations than most of Europe.

    Gray market cars came under scrutiny of DOT and EPA because of all the outrageous scams that went on in the 1980s, and NO DOUBT due to lobbying by legitimate foreign car automakers / dealers who resented having to compete with outlaws for the USA market share. I believe Mercedes dealers were particularly adamant in demanding that the EPA/DOT crack down on gray market cars.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,097
    edited March 2011
    You can easily get JDM stuff into Oz, the place is full of it, heck, I've watched Youtube videos about how to do it. Lots of old American iron there too. The muscle car never died in Oz. Sweden, the banana republic?....I don't know if it is relevant - they just tax the hell out of everything to pay for the insane amount of social welfare they pay to asylum seekers and others who really shouldn't be there to begin with. Canada is also much easier to get a private import into than the US. Western Europe and the UK the same. I bet it's easier to get a used American car into Japan than vice versa, too.

    The DOT/EPA junk is 100% because of carmakers and dealers who didn't want competition, I can't see it any other way. Saying it is about "safety" is about the same as saying speed enforcement is for safety and not revenue. You get the justice you pay for in this society.

    It kills me that overpaid federal suits will crackdown and persecute those who import a handful of enthusiast cars, but in the vast majority of states, one can drive a bald-tired no-braked rotten old heap without worry, so long as it was sold in the US when new. Crazy.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    You must be thinking of New Zealand. Australia is stricter, but has a special and enthusiast vehicles (SEVS) program that might have worked for some of the cars you saw.

    But they require that you conform to a set of rules and may require safety modifications, assignment onto a registry, and government approval.

    If you aren't on the list of approved types of "enthusiast" cars, I guess you are SOL in OZ?

    you can read about the Aussie regs here:

    http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/motor/sevs/index.aspx

    Yes of course part of EPA/DOT regs were due to dealer pressures, but there's no denying that traffic deaths have decreased dramatically.

    Rules and regs in *any* government are fueled by political will and not really on any rational basis. Politics supports auto safety for instance, but not gun control or allow an uneducated person from one country to become a citizen but not a PhD from another country.

    Go figure--it's politics for sure.

    If nothing else, the history of EPA/DOT and the history of the American auto industry in the last 30 years should convince anyone that there is no such thing as a "free market" around here.

    Big lobbies rule.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,097
    edited March 2011
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63Y97oLjiuA

    This doesn't make it too hard to ship a JDM unit into Oz. A quick check of Oz ebay shows lots of weird Japanese and US market stuff there - not all of it classic or specialty material either. Odd Japanese microvans and mundane sedans, malaisey yank tanks, not exactly enthusiast vehicles.

    How do traffic deaths relate to a handful of weirdo foreign market cars being imported? I'd wager any of them would be better maintained than a typical domestic of similar age. That I can't bring a Skyline here but I can drive a rotten 25 year old heap with threadbare tires and no brakes just fine says it all.

    Free markets are indeed a lie. There's no rational reason to this, it just makes the US laughable in yet another way. Spend a day in Vancouver and see how much cool weird stuff is on the roads. You can't throw a cat without hitting a RHD RX7, Supra or a Skyline.
  • freshairfiendfreshairfiend Member Posts: 28
    Much as I enjoy the wind in one's face that is part of the joy of convertible motoring, on a long trip it can be a little tiring. Consequently I have been considering making a rear windshield that could be employed for longer trips but don't have all the information needed to start. Does anyone have experience in this area? First, is it better to use a mesh or would a solid shield be better? Secondly would anybody have any ideas as to the right dimensions? It wouldn't seem to be too difficult a project and what I am looking at is making the shield with legs that can be fastened to the cloth covered back wall with velcro. If the shield is solid it would be very easy to cut the whole thing out of a sheet of perspex, while if the preferred shield was to be composed of mesh it would be necessary to make a frame. Either way it doesn't seem to be too difficult, but I would hate to make something up and find it didn't work properly because it was a couple of inches too big/small. Any helpful ideas would be appreciated.
Sign In or Register to comment.