Cadillac CTS/CTS-V

pat · July 2002

All righty, let's try this again. Maybe we can get it right this time.

This is the place to talk about the new CTS -- owners, potential owners, interested bystanders are all welcome as long as we keep the conversation focused on the CTS.

Anyone who wants to debate the future of Cadillac as a whole, or the relative merits and demerits of the CTS's competition is invited to look for suitable discussions on other boards. Try the Search function on the left sidebar for "Cadillac" and see what you find. If you'd like to compare the CTS to any other vehicle, please check out the Comparisons - Sedans vs. Sedans board - maybe your comparison is already underway, but if not, feel free to create a discussion there.

As always, I would be very happy to help you find anything you might be looking for.

Let's get back to talking about the CTS right here -- but please understand that because of the volatile history of the previous discussion, argumentative messages will not be tolerated here.

Questions? Just shoot me an email.

Thanks!

Pat
Sedans Host

baron87 · July 2002

What fun...I guess I'll start us off with a couple questions to the CTS owners around here:

1-What do you like most about your CTS (why did you buy it)?

2-What do you think needs improvement/why?

3-Why should someone buy a CTS?

Thanks...

automole · July 2002

4-How much did you pay for your CTS?

Although the CTS is a GREAT car they don't exactly seem to be moving off the lots at lightning speed! Is it realistic to expect that I can get a $1500 discount off of sticker on a nicely optioned CTS? I plan on going to the dealer to negotiate the purchase of a new CTS later this week.

b4z · July 2002

I am just wondering what the overall market demand for the CTS is.
Will Cadillac build too many and saturate the market?
Will we be seeing rebates on CTS's in 6 months?
Or even less?

Looks like GM factories were down this week with 0 cars produced.

Model changeover or vacation?

b4z · July 2002

Went to Vienna, Virginia for the Packard National Meet a few days ago and saw a sunburst orange CTS at the Caddy dealership next door.

I walked over to look at it and it was a 5 speed with 0 options. I think the price was 29.9K.
it looked like it had been there awhile.

This must have been one of the initial shipment of cars that had the 5 speed and low MSRP.

I have a feeling they are going to eat that car.

fjk57702 · July 2002

CTS production thus far this year (July 6) is just over 20,000. Total sales thru then end of June is 14,700. Sales have been running at 3,400 or so per month for the past few months. So the 5,000 or so cars not yet sold are 1) not yet shipped 2) less than a month old on the dealers lot. Cadillac considers the car "sold out".

bigdaddycoats · July 2002

automole - the CTS is selling as well or better than GM expected. I believe they are moving better in the midwest than other parts of the country. You should be able to get some discount.

b4z - GM plants are shut down the first two weeks of July. I believe same goes for Ford and Chrysler. Also, base MSRP has not increased since launch.

necros · July 2002

I have another question for people who own a CTS/know stuff about it: Does anyone know what the wheel specifications for the CTS are? Things like lug pattern and size, offset, bore, etc.? I've been looking at some Momo wheels, but have no idea if they'll fit, and getting Momo fitment info (or fitment info for the CTS) is no easy task...

And to automole's question, I bought mine for $1200 off invoice, with no D&H. I would think with the right dealership, you could get $1500 off.

wallywalla · July 2002

I've had my CTS for just one month and have 1100 miles on it. I bought it three days after a test drive. I never intended to buy a CTS but was so impressed with the way it handled that I just couldn't resist. It is Sable Black with the dark pewter interior.So far the mileage is quite good for mostly city driving and some highway (19.5mpg). I had to cancel the other vehicle that I had on order since April (some sort of delay) and I'm not sorry. The only minor flaws that I discovered was that I had twice hit the control for the window washers and turned them on. The mount on the column could be modified so that it wouldn't happen .The other being that the cruise control doesn't have a resume feature which I was used to in my other vehicle. The dealer gave me what I thought was a great deal and a fair trade price.Most of the CTS cars don't last that long on the area dealers lots. Mine was just 3 days before I bought it. Oh, it is a manual transmission, with the luxury package, express sun roof and polished wheels. Any questions?.

wallywalla · July 2002

The cruise control resume feature is not like on my other vehicle in that I was able to just press resume and unless I was going too slow , it would go right back to the original setting I had. In the CTS once I hit the brakes , it will not go back automatically to the previous setting unless I hold the resume button down til I reach my previous speed. Unless I am not working it right????????????

oldsman01 · July 2002

Glad to see the CTS forum is back in business. Anyone know if the current GM promo of 0$ apr is good on CTSs?

logic1 · July 2002

The ads I saw for 0% said on all 2002 models. The CTS and Vibe are 2003 models, so are probably exempt.

robh3 · July 2002

Wally:

Could it be that when you have tried this, it has been because you had downshifted? I have an '87 Mustang w/ 5 speed and the cruise control has a resume function that'll take the car back to the prior speed (hence, "resume").

It would seem incredibly odd to me that this '03 Caddy, even with the stick, didn't have a traditional "resume" feature to the cruise control. I'd check your owners manual to see what it says...

fjk57702 · July 2002

If the CTS has a standard GM cruise control, part of the turn signal stalk, then the on/off switch also has the resume feature which is activated by sliding the switch toward the resume (not the off position). A quick slide, as, if you hold it then you activate the accelerate mode. If you push the set button (in the end of the stalk) then you reset the speed. If you turn the cruise "off", then it loses the speed and will not resume. I'm not sure, but if you enter the accelerate mode, then the speed may be lost too.

necros · July 2002

The CTS does not have the standard GM cruise control. CTS CC is on the steering wheel, at the bottom.

rapster · July 2002

All you have to do is momentarily press the + button...but don't hold it in, which resets the speed.

BTW, I have a Blue Onyx CTS with every option except the engine block heater :-) ...$43K out the door. I got it in April and just turned over 4500 miles on it.

I bought it because I love the cutting-edge design, I was ready to move into a Cadillac out of an Acura 3.2 CL Type S. I'm in some disagreement about opinions that the interior is sub-standard; it's appropriate for a new-mindset vehicle, and is pretty low-maintenance (not many completely flat surfaces, so it doesn't collect the dust that other cars do).

I love the idea of driving a car of which I don't see a clone every other car on the freeway!

robh3 · July 2002

Sounds like you represent the target market Caddy was going after: someone driving an import competitor, looking for something "fresh" and far from "every-day", having a sporty character...someone who dares to step out of the "norm" and "expected" and be different.

I've seen some blue onyx CTSs and they look great. What color interior did you get?

One color that I saw at the NY Auto Show was the red. I have yet to see a red one either on the road or at a dealership. It looked pretty sharp up on the stage at the show.

dindak · July 2002

I have never seen more than one CTS on the lot aside from one Saturday when they had 4. All four were lined up with plates on them though, so they were sold. I see a few around so they are definitely selling. Seen a few G35s also. I still think the CTS looks much better that the Infiniti. G35 is just strange in the back.

I was at the CART race in Toronto this weekend and they had a modified CTS and EXT one display. The CTS had a custom wheels, grill, tinted windows and interior treatments. Looked very sharp.

bigdaddycoats · July 2002

What did the grill look like? A local dealer had on on that was comprised of horizontal metal grooves? - $1495 option. The car also had a rear spoiler - $895 option.

automole · July 2002

First off, thanks to everyone for the info on purchasing a new CTS...I think I'm going to try for $1500 off since the cars in my area appear to be moving slow. Of course I have a trade-in so you know how that goes!

Wally, how's the paint on your black CTS? Black is my favorite color but my wife has already said she won't let me get another black car due to my perfectionist personality. My current car (300M) is black and has the worst paint I've ever owned on any car...it scratches VERY easily and has numerous factory defects. My last car (95 Mustang Cobra) was also black but the paint held up great. I'd consider getting black again but only if it's decent paint...any info is GREATLY appreciated. -Thanks

dindak · July 2002

Your description matches what I saw also but there was no spoiler. Did the spoiler look good?

wallywalla · July 2002

The paint is quite good.I checked the car over very thoroughly. I believe that since black is so revealing that the dealers take more care with it. So far no scratches are showing. I think that a black car is slick when it's really clean. I do use a California duster to get the dust off, but I'm not a fanatic. With our drought restrictions, I can only really wash it every two weeks, so in between I can just bucket wash which isn't a problem because the car is so small.I thought that bugs should be removed ASAP because in the paint I could see faint outlines of where they were.I cleaned and re-waxed the spots and they are gone. Since I re-waxed , it doesn't seem to happen. The dealer must have used a quikie wax just for presentation. I swear that all the birds in the area like black for target practice though. I do not use car washes. I do not like the residue of soap that is left behind. Black isn't for everyone, but I like it. By the way, I did get $1500 off the window sticker with not much effort at all. All I said is what's your best deal?I was getting ready to try to negotiate but didn't have to. I also got a good price on my trade to boot. So go for it! Hope this helps.

jeasher · July 2002

Man. I could never trade my 3.2 CL-S for a car that ugly. 43k? Wow.

wallywalla · July 2002

Sorry, My black CTS has a window sticker of $33,888.It included the Luxury package, bright wheels and express sun roof only. If you want to compare vehicles then you're on the wrong message board. I'm the one that traded for it and it's just great!

necros · July 2002

I think jeasher was referring to rapster's post, not yours.

I'm also a little surprised at a 43K price tag. I don't think I've ever seen a CTS that expensive. Maybe rapster's in Canada...?

beach15 · July 2002

We had a 00' Deep Slate 300M, and I had the impression that the paint, while not great, was nothing spectacular. Mainly, just like so many other M's, the hood tended to chip easily, but we only had it for 18k miles before trading. That, and after being in a bit of an accident, 2 months later, $12k, and a lot of work, a lot of it got repainted.

Our new car is pure black, Onyx Black to be exact. And, it's huge, an Avalanche. Whether paint is all that great or not, a lot resides in the care. I operate a detailing business using only the best products (Klasse, Zaino, Platinum, etc.), and know what I'm doing, so our cars always look perfect. As long as you wash, dry, polish, and seal or wax properly, there shouldn't be a problem.

From what I've seen and heard, the CTS actually does have quite good paint. GM is really trying with this car, so quality is very important and apparent. As long as you enjoy being a constant perfectionist with the black paint (you know, never having a single mark in or on the paint-like me), are okay with the summer heat issues, and like buying quality car care products, not to mention love having that shimmering black car look, black is for you.

Hey, what about Copper Sunburst! I have to say, I'd be tied between that and black, only because orange is my favorite color.

Good luck, and don't tell the 300M guys I said this, but get rid of it and start enjoying something new and much nicer, like a CTS!!

dindak · July 2002

I sooner drive a car that looks less like a Accord thanx. Acura cars all look the same, dull and boring. They are good, but I don't like to blend in. CTS is no where near U$43K.

cybersax · July 2002

With taxes, a fully loaded CTS will come to about $43,000. I believe that is what he must have meant.

Pre-tax, a fully loaded CTS tops out at $40,000.

"I sooner drive a car that looks less like a Accord thanx. Acura cars all look the same, dull and boring"

Exactly. Acura's are the kind of car that you don't know what they are until you pull up behind them and read the Acura logo. Even the pre-CTS, pre-Escalade 1990's Cadillac had more excitement than Acura ever will.

1997montez34 · July 2002

If the V-6 is delayed GM will have lost me. That motor should have been ready to roll for the '03 CTS. The 3.2 is a fine motor, but the 3.6 would have caused a huge stir. Why can every import company do it and GM can't? Answer: until Lutz got there they lost their spirit. Hopefully they got their mojo back. And hopefully they'll produce the Cadillac Sixteen! Now that's a car!

bigdaddycoats · July 2002

I wasn't real sure if I liked the spoiler or not. Kinda looked like a boomerang was put on the trunk - very angular spoiler. I would like to see another CTS with one, it might grow on me.

dindak · July 2002

bigdaddycoats : Spoilers look good on some cars and not on others. Not sure I can see it on the CTS, but who knows.

cybersax : Acura makes great cars but they have one of the worst design studios around They really need to grab an imagination. I guess they sell anyway though. Lots of people like to blend with the crowd I guess.

wallywalla · July 2002

Thanks for the info on using the resume feature. I must admit that I was not the source of the problem but my better half was. I don't usually use cruise but I took the CTS out today and had a chance to see how it really works. You're right about how it operates and resumes to the previous setting. I think it does work quite well. I must now inform the other half , that it does work , does resume , and how exactly to use it. Wish me luck!
Good luck with your Blue Onyx CTS. It is probably the only color that I haven't seen.I agree that some are questioning the interior but I think that it is O.K. I also like a car that doesn't look like every other car on the road. But the clones are coming I'm sure. Did you order it or get it at a dealer?

sweetjeldorado · July 2002

Congrats. on the CTS.

If you don't mind me asking, what car that you had ordered cancelled in favor of the CTS? What car did you drove previously?

J "CaddyLac"

rapster · July 2002

Pix of my Blue Onyx CTS with two-tone interior at http://www.rancyland.net/cts

"Sounds like you represent the target market Caddy was going after..."

Ah, you're killing me! I hate to think I can be so easily pigeonholed! :-)

"I'm also a little surprised at a 43K price tag. I don't think I've ever seen a CTS that expensive. Maybe rapster's in Canada..."

Worse...California. Sticker was just under $40K with no give on the price, with tax and tags around $43K (as cybersax surmised)...and I DID say 'out the door'.

I started off with an order at Wayne Stead Cadillac in Walnut Creek CA with an estimated delivery in 6-8 weeks. A month later I called to see what was happening and the salesman casually mentioned that the order was on hold due to a 'parts shortage' with no new ETA (he didn't even call to let me know!). I then jumped on the 'net and found the very car I ordered at Reliable Pontiac Cadillac in Roseville (>2 hours away). I called at 10 at night; the sales manager was just turning the lights off and I claimed the car (which was still on the truck). A week later I had my CTS! Woohoo!

automole · July 2002

...I know what I'm doing on the paint upkeep and use Zaino, Mothers, etc...trust me, the paint on my 300M is HORRIBLE.

Currently I'm considering Copper Sunburst vs. Black. Black is my favorite car color but like you, I also like orange. I also like how the lighter colors make the CTS look a little bit larger where the darker colors tend to shrink the cars appearance a bit.

I plan on visiting the dealer this week to try and make a deal on the CTS and am hoping I won't 'eat it' too bad on my 300M trade-in.

Thanks for the info!

cybersax · July 2002

"I started off with an order at Wayne Stead Cadillac in Walnut Creek CA with an estimated delivery in 6-8 weeks. A month later I called to see what was happening and the salesman casually mentioned that the order was on hold due to a 'parts shortage' with no new ETA (he didn't even call to let me know!). I then jumped on the 'net and found the very car I ordered at Reliable Pontiac Cadillac in Roseville (>2 hours away). I called at 10 at night; the sales manager was just turning the lights off and I claimed the car (which was still on the truck). A week later I had my CTS! Woohoo!"

The same thing happened to me. I placed an order for the CTS back in early April. The dealer told me that he would know in one week when GM would produce the car, and it would be delivered in 6 weeks. In mid-May, the dealer still had no idea when the car would be made. My Dad told me that he was going to cancel the order if the car didn't come in by July, since we need the car mostly for the summer (I don't get to take it up to college, and he'll be driving it for a while once he returns his Lexus in September).

So I spent the next few weeks frantically calling every single CTS dealer within 100 miles to locate a CTS with the luxury sports package, xenon headlights, and automatic transmission in silver, blue, or black. Both the xenon headlights and the luxury sports package were in extreme short supply, so I decided to compromise on the xenon headlights. Often times, dealers would get these cars on their lots, and they would be sold in a few hours. Ultimatly I was able to find something that I liked (black, luxury sports package, automatic tranmission, moonroof) at Don Massey Cadillac in Detroit (about 60 miles away). Just in the nick of time too, because some Cadillac dealers were getting pissed off at my repeated calls, and I was thinking about just forgetting the whole thing and going with a BMW or something.

It's good General Motors has a production cap on the CTS, but that production cap is ridiculously low - to the point that it might frustrate buyers away. They need to raise it to ~5,000 units a month.

fav002 · July 2002

This car looks amazing in black, like an F-117 Stealth fighter, especially with the windows tinted. Of course it's a $@^#*! to keep clean, but it's worth it! Check out my pics below...

-FAV002

2003 Cadillac CTS
Sable Black w/ 2-tone light gray / dark pewter interior
CTS Luxury Sport Package
Bose system w/ cassette & in-dash 6CD changer
Getrag 5-speed manual
High intensity discharge Xenon headlamps
Express open sunroof
Split-folding rear seat
My CTS Pictures

cybersax · July 2002

http://www.autonews.com/news.cms?newsId=2033

"Cadillac also fared well with two commercials for the CTS sports sedan, scoring 9.1 and 8.7.

"Using Led Zeppelin ended up being dramatic for them," Spinella said. "When we broke down 'What do you like?' Led Zeppelin ended up with a 9.5 among all age groups."

Cadillac's ad agency is D'Arcy Masius Benton & Bowles in Troy, Mich."

The marketing for the CTS thus far, particularly the Led Zeppelin commercials, have been fitting for the car. It's been an incredibly well thought out and well executed campaign.

aaron_t · July 2002

Does anyone know what percentage of CTS's were purchased with the GM emplyee discount? I see a lot around the Detroit area which is to be expected, but just curious how many uninfluenced people were buying them vs. GM people looking for something different or new.

TIA

logic1 · July 2002

I do not know about employee/v/non-employee figures. Last week the Chicago Tribune reported that more than 40% or the trade-ins for CTS were non-GM cars. This suggests at least a substantial number of CTS buyers did not have a previous employment or customer relationship to GM.

baron87 · July 2002

According to the Autoextremist.com, GM has not decided whether to renew Cadillac's LMP program for next year, but it appears it will be dead. There just simply isn't enough money to properly fund the effort, for now at least. Unless a major corporate sponsor, willing to put up 100 mil. a year, is found by August 1, Cadillac's LMP program will be out of business.

GM, not wanting to see Cadillac racing entirely die, has apparently forced a compromise, and entered the CTS in the GT class for the American LeMans Series in 2003. Things may not be entirely all that bad, after all.

http://autoextremist.com/page6.shtml#table

wallywalla · July 2002

I am one of those uninfluenced CTS buyers. Previous to the CTS ,I was a Ford owner. I saw it and drove it and just had to have it! I never owned a GMC product in my life. Do now!

ambull · July 2002

Hopefully the CTS will do better than the LMP, but I doubt it.
I wonder how they can make that engine competitive with the one in the M3? It's not much of a race engine, in my opinion.
Personally I think it would do well in NASCAR, but NASCAR fans probably don't have the right demographics.

baron87 · July 2002

. . .and that my friend has the same engine in it as the Z06, which in turn is the same engine in the Corvettes that won first place in the GTS class at 24 Hours of LeMans this year, "Not much of a race engine"? What more do you need, it won first place for the Corvette?!?!

sonjaab · July 2002

HEY ALL ! Was at Oswego NY Caddy dealer today
They just dealer swapped a cashmere CTS for a
black one. Stopped in.....34,900 sticker.
It had roof,bose,sport pkg. They checked out
my 96 Deville and offered 7k trade!
But then I said will you do GM employee discount?
They hemmed and hawed......I told the salesman
IF you will ...call me..if not..don't bother me.
We will see ! I GOT to have one !

Fav 02...excellent pics !........geo

dindak · July 2002

I was driving behind a CTS on the QEW today to watch people passing it as it cruised down the highway. I would say 50%+ turned their heads to looks. Car is definitely not blending in which is great. One thing I did notice is when the tail lights come on, only the tops of the long rear fixture come on. I didn't notice this before (and obviously not when I was in the car). I would have thought CTS would have LED type rear brake lights like DTS. A little disappointing.

sonjaab · July 2002

In the Syracuse, Utica, Rochester area
no GM employee deal ! But I have seen
Leadfoots post of them dealing a little
off sticker !
Sorry I should of posted this before my
last post....But I am so excited...My
woman likes the 2 tone gray interior..
but she still don't know its RWD car yet !
LOL...........geo

sonjaab · July 2002

Are you any where near Gan. or Kingston
Ont? They just opened a new casino there.
I own a motel just over the bridge in Alex.
Bay NY.........geo

wallywalla · July 2002

GREAT PICS of both CTSs. Love them!!!!!!!

dindak · July 2002

Live in Oakville (west of Toronto), but I am originally from the Kingston area so I know it well. In fact I will be n the area this weekend. Which hotel do you own? I heard about the casino, my brother is a big gambler so he is happy.

Cadillac CTS/CTS-V

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