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Dodge Sprinter Gas Mileage

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Comments

  • jim314jim314 Member Posts: 491
    The 2007 Sprinter will be available with a gasoline engine--a 3L V-6, I think.
  • kenbakerkenbaker Member Posts: 239
    money saved always has a time-value (interest rate equivalent) whether you put it into an "instrument" or not.

    What you are looking for is a MARR (minimum accetable Rate of Return) for your investment, and time-value of money is always a part of that equation. More money saved earlier is better... and money saved over time is less so.

    Since I got my Sprinter at a $7000 (+/- $500) discount, I don't have a problem getting my investment back...

    Money saved on maintenance, extended service intervals (if efective), and reduced shop down-time are more intangible in nature when compared to MPG and initial cost.

    At least in the passenger model, I don't see as big a difference in the Sprinter compared to a GM or Ford product for price on a 3/4 ton or 1 ton model basis. That is, of course, if you don't mind (or, like me, prefer) Rubber Mat flooring and simple/sturdy (Sprinter) instead of carpeted and plush (which most GM and Ford vans will be).

    My last Astro/Safari listed for nearly what I spent on my Sprinter and the Sprinter still gets better mileage than the Safari mini Van!

    KenB :shades:
  • jim314jim314 Member Posts: 491
    I didn't know the best deals people were actually getting. I just used the $9000 difference that one person gave. I know my calculations are not properly done return on investment calculations. They were not even proper TVM calculations.

    Personally, I much prefer the rubber mat flooring because it can be cleaned extremely well. And the greater inside height would be a huge plus for me. Are you saying that the Sprinter deals and the Chevy Express deals are much closer than $9000. How close would you say? Estimate if you don't know for sure.
  • kenbakerkenbaker Member Posts: 239
    within about $3K-$5K Sometimes tighter... On passenger vans. Mine was certainly nearly even-steven.

    The thing is as you point out with the high roof is that GM and Ford CAN'T match it... Except for aftermarket or co-production deals (and a bit of extra expense, I don't have a figure on that) you can't get a domestic high-roof, and then there is NO door that opens top-to-bottom full heighth on the whole vehicle.

    Of course, so far the Sprinter doesn't have alot of power for towing. My dad has the Ford 1ton PowerStroke Diesel van (a $45K+ vehicle), it gets close to the mileage I get (19 MPG for the Ford, I get 20-21 in my Sprinter). He also can tow an Airstream 26 footer easily (about 8,000 Lb.)

    My Sprinter can tow 5,000 Lb., and I have heard good things about them towing except that your acceleration will be limited (I don't expect to hurry when I tow anyway).

    As the 2007 model gets closer to the USA market, I expect the 2006's (if available on the dealer lots) to get a price drop (not much, but some). The extra horsepower and updated van are a strong draw to some, but the existing vehicle is strong enough for us and the space-to-MPG ratio is HUGEly in our favor as it is.

    We haul family, friends, church folks, co-workers on lunch outings, etc. and most all are impressed (and I have the shorter version of the two).

    KenB :shades:
    2004 Arctic White MWB 2500 HC Dodge Sprinter converted back to Mercedes: badges/hubcaps/decals/grill(white)
  • jim314jim314 Member Posts: 491
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel
    "The density of [petroleum] diesel is about 850 grams per liter [18% greater than gasoline] whereas gasoline has a density of about 720 g/l, about 15% less. When burnt, diesel typically releases about 40.9 megajoules (MJ) per liter, whereas gasoline releases 34.8 MJ/L, about 15% less. Diesel is generally simpler to refine than gasoline and often costs less (although price fluctuations sometimes mean that the inverse is true; for example, the cost of diesel traditionally rises during colder months as demand for heating oil, which is refined much the same way, rises). Also, due to its high level of pollutants, diesel fuel must undergo additional filtration which contributes to a sometimes higher cost.

    "Diesel powered cars generally have about a 40% better fuel economy than equivalent gasoline engines[1] and produce only about 69% of the greenhouse gases. This greater fuel economy is due to the higher per-liter energy content of diesel fuel and also to the intrinsic efficiency of the diesel engine. While diesel's 15% higher volumetric energy density results in 15% higher greenhouse gas emissions per liter compared to gasoline[2], the 40% better fuel economy achieved by modern diesel-engined automobiles offsets the higher-per-liter emissions of greenhouse gases, resulting in significantly lower carbon dioxide emissions per kilometer."

    So you'd multiply the gasoline mpg by 1.18 to correct for the lower density of gasoline compared to diesel fuel. So the 15 mpg of a gasoline engine should be corrected to 15(1.18) = 17.6 mpg for comparison to an equivalent weight of diesel fuel.
  • kipkkipk Member Posts: 1,576
    "Diesel powered cars generally have about a 40% better fuel economy than equivalent gasoline engines[1] and produce only about 69% of the greenhouse gases....

    Jim, I realize your information is probably accurate according to some study somewhere. I'm just having trouble with it. Mostly from personal experience and observation.

    The part I don't understand is the "equivalent".
    Just how do we compare and make equivalent the gas and the diesel engines. Do we compare torque, horsepower, or displacement?

    Diesels generally will produce more torque and less horse power than an "Equal Size", displacement, gas engine. Therefore diesels of equal displacement will do more "work".
    However their MPG will be similar to the same displacement gas engine unless working really hard.

    Just reading the "Real World Mileage" over on the Dodge Ram forum, the Diesels are getting a little better than the gas, but not 40%. I know that is not a fair comparison as they are comparing trucks that "WORK" with heavier loads and weigh more.

    My 360 CI Ram was considerably "quicker" than a friends Cummings Turbo Diesel. Mine was a 98 and his a year or two newer. His was rated to tow considerably more. I averaged a shade over 14 daily driving and 18 road. He said he was getting about 2 better on both. Still not 40%.

    It does get confusing to me!

    Kip
  • jim314jim314 Member Posts: 491
    I agree that there is a problem with the meaning of equivalent. We should be comparing gas and diesel engines of the same horsepower, but we don't.

    Torque output can be changed by gearing, power output is proportional to the product of the torque and the rpms. A diesel engine will have a lower max power rating than a gasser of the same max torque because the diesel cannot reach the same max rpms. But most diesels do get more power out of the same weight of fuel than a gasoline engine. You can find explanations of why this is so, usually cited is that air pumping resistance in the gasser is higher because gassers are "throttled" whereas diesels have no throttle restricting air flow into the cylinders; and higher thermodynamic efficiency of the diesel due to its higher compression ratio.

    But the fact is that most people hardly ever run their engines in passenger cars at high rpms and peak power. They drive at rpms around the torque maximum because this is fuel efficient and doesn't give the impression that the engine is straining. Under these conditions a diesel and a gasser with the same max torque rating will accelerate the car about the same. The fact that the diesel will have a much lower max hp rating than the gasser will not be evident unless you are trying to pass another vehicle on an uphill 2-lane road, or are testing 0-60mph performance.

    I think that in the past people who got diesels in passenger cars were looking for fuel efficiency and would accept lower hp engines which gave inferior acceleration that the gassers offered in that car.

    Here is a quote from an automotive engineer: ". . . look at the BSFC (Brake Specific Fuel Consumption) of each engine. For example, a Cummins ISB (the Dodge Pickup engine) is rated at 0.34 lbs/hp/hr. As a comparison, the Detroit Diesel Series 60 is rated at 0.38 lbs/hp/hr and most gasoline engines are in the .48-.52lbs/hp/hr class. (Those figures are for peak torque, which is generally the most fuel efficient point.)"

    See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BSFC

    But in my opinion the diesel engine in pick-up trucks do not appeal to the buyer as much on the basis of fuel efficiency, but rather high torque, fairly high horsepower (not much less than the gasoline engines offered in that truck), longevity, durability, diesel image. So the engines in diesel trucks are slower 0-60mph than gassers but not a lot slower.

    The diesel will be a much more expensive engine which can better tolerate continuous operation at a higher percent of max power output than the gasoline engines offered in that truck. Hence it will probably have a more durable transmission and a higher towing rating.
  • jim314jim314 Member Posts: 491
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W%C3%A4rtsil%C3%A4-Sulzer_RTA96-C

    The large 2-stroke marine diesel is the most efficient reciprocating engine with BSFC of 0.28 lb/bhp-hr. Also diesels are now being produced for general aviation use. At least some of these are 2-stroke which would have the advantage that the power to weight ratio would be higher than a four stroke.
  • 2000_valk2000_valk Member Posts: 67
    Well it got down to -12. I put a light under the battery to keep it warm. And would not start :cry:. But had plenty of cranking power. Any suggestions on a fuel additive. Thanks, Tom
  • kipkkipk Member Posts: 1,576
    In our ares most folks with Diesel P/Us plug in the engine block heaters if air temp gets into the teens.

    Don't know what they do if away from an electrical outlet!

    Kip
  • kmarderkmarder Member Posts: 1
    Would you mind sharing where or how it was that you got your Sprinter at a $7k discount? I'm looking to buy one now, and they're selling for a premium.
  • kenbakerkenbaker Member Posts: 239
    Oklahoma... got a dealer van (passenger, 624 miles) that was in stock on spec. Bought 2004 model in 2005.

    The Sprinter has not caught on here yet for passenger use. I see alot for businesses, especially delivery, medical, Cleaning companies, etc. Not very many passenger vans though.

    Special order is just not going to get you a discount anywhere that I know of. We also don't see them going for a premium here either. That may change with 2007 models.

    I was assured by the dealer that I could have taken mine up North or to Florida and have made a profit on it... I am pretty sure he was right.

    Apples for apples to Ford/GMC it is not really higher... 3/4 ton, diesel, high roof, 10 passenger, long oil change intervals, MPG, etc. If you find all of these in a FORD I know it will cost MORE than the Sprinter. My dad has a FORD that matches all but the high roof and even that van was about $45K list ($36K used with about 20K miles on it). My Sprinter LISTED for $37K+ and I paid $30K (plus a 500 dollar transport fee).

    Any idea how much it costs to add aftermarket high-roof to a FORD or GMC van?

    Oh yeah, the local Mercedes Owners Club wants me to join... I've put it back in Mercedes trim as it was supposed to be born and it is a bit of a novelty to them.

    thanks,
    KenB :shades:
  • kenbakerkenbaker Member Posts: 239
    Power Service (white bottle, red and black lettering)... 8-16 ounces per full tank in Sprinter will supposedly get you down to well below 0F (I think about -20F).

    I have only been down to about 12F above, but no problems using the treatment. More likely, you need the heat on the fuel filter instead of on the battery.

    Other Power Service diesel additives are for other conditions/purposes (silver/gray bottle, for example, is Cetane Boost).

    Power Service treatments are advertised to be equivalent to standard diesel in fuel tests (for warranty purposes). I think this was #2 Diesel and free of sulfur (yet lubricating), but I don't have a bottle in front of me as I write this.

    thanks,
    KenB :shades:
  • onwhidbeyonwhidbey Member Posts: 2
    Hey-has anyone run their sprinter(mines an '04)on bio-diesel, either straight or a percentage in regular diesel? Thanks
  • ponchovponchov Member Posts: 14
    A dealer tried to get me to allow them to change my fuel filter at 12k miles.
    The service writer told me the new filter would improvem my mpg.
    Then I told him I was averaging 21-23.....he then suggested I would get even more.

    Anyone ever get this BS, sorry, I mean suggested maintance?
  • jftfijftfi Member Posts: 10
    I have a 2004 High Roof model loaded, purchased new. I have never done better than 19mpg and 18 is the average, in town or highway. I change the fuel filter every 10,000 miles with the oil and filter. Want to trade? Check the tire pressure. The manual calls for 80psi and if I drop to 50psi for a smother ride I lose about 2 mpg. I have now been told that reducing the tire pressure below spec. will effect the stability control system. Good luck
  • ponchovponchov Member Posts: 14
    I do run my tires at 75 psi & they are going to be replaced in 5-6K miles more for a grant total of 30 K miles on New Conti. Ouch!
    I'm easy on the acceleration & try to keep from kicking in the turbo.

    Can after market fuel filters be used in the 08 CAD Sprinters?
  • raaberaabe Member Posts: 1
    I have a 2006, 2500, 158 wb sprinter with about 500 pounds of tools on board. I think i have a 3.72 rear end not sure but assume its that because i get about 20 to 21 mpg
    can a lower ratio rear end be installed lets say a 3.29 or so to improve mileage since i really never put it under any heavy loads and if i did it has that lower gear shifting ability to compensate for engine stress ?? Has anyone ever done this? :confuse:
  • ponchovponchov Member Posts: 14
    My 08 has a 4:10 final drive.
    I tried a slightly taller & slightly narrower tire than the stock conti size.
    Big mistake! The narrower tires made the rain groves in the freeway wiggle my van all over the lane. Yes, I had full psi, 75-80. But the real bad news came in my drop in mpg.
    From my usual 17-18 mpg, towing a trailer w/ 4 to 5 DS bikes, to 12-13 mpg. & the take off was nothing to write home about either.
    Went to my dealer & the tech figured out the ratio change & the revs per mile at the rear tire. It just wasn't that much of a gain in lowering the rpms but the throttle peddle was sure pressed way down there from the stock size tires.
    After a thousands plus miles of really bad mpg both loaded & unloaded, I went back to the stock size tires & will never mess around w/ prefection again.

    My 2500, 144 is turning 2,400 rpm at 65 mph by the GPS reading. I easily earn 21-23 near empty & trailer less. But loaded & trailering the above I earn 16-18 mpg.

    Something happens at 70 mph....it gets real fuel hungary.

    Have got 12 mpg in west TX doing 80+ on I-10 form El Paso to San Antonio while loaded & pulling 5 DS bikes on a heavy trailer.

    I don't punch my turbo from light to light & try to pass while going down hill.
    No cruise control when in the hills or mountains.

    These bread box designs are not w/o huge vaccumes at the rear, which do a big sucking job over 50 mph. I'm thinking about building an enclosed pointed trailer for my bike hauling & maybe a tail cone for the rear of the Sprinter. Should look interesting.
  • gullbreezergullbreezer Member Posts: 2
  • gullbreezergullbreezer Member Posts: 2
    We swapped a 35ft Allegro Diesel pusher for this 23.5 ft View in 2007 and have put 81,500 miles on it. The fuel tank is nominally 26.4 gal compared to the 90 gals we used to carry. My wife is very happy with the way it handles/parks and I am happy because I don't have room for a lot of tools ( too much re-modeling for relatives). We cruise at speed limit (or plus 5) and get 17-18 mpg. We lost a tranny on I-5 in the heart of Spokane last Labor Day weekend but had extended warranty coverage, have gone through 3 turbo-resonators til I got a solid Aluminum tube from Amazon. Had an outer dual blow at 70mph but can't complain because the OE were 60,000 warranty rubber and we had 65,000 on the View. We have written to Dodge and Winnebago about things that could be improved but no responses. I find that it does better at hill climbing if I put the cruise control on before starting up. We carry our standard Poodle and a 20 lb cat (the kids are all grown) and occasionally a third adult. We have a home in FL and travel in the summers so no issues with freezing temps.
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