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I'm following up with message 345.
I have no idea about that car by my post!
DAN
DAN
Today something happened to the clutch. The car did not make any horrific noises or anything. I was simply unable to put it into gear while I was trying to get on the freeway. It didn't start to slip first or anything. I also could not press the clutch pedal all the way to the floor.
When I changed the clutch several months ago, I knew it was coming because it had started to slip about a month prior.
So now when I start the car it idles just fine. No noise. It's just as quiet as ever. It only made a noise when I tried to put it in gear. I was not able to get it into gear at all. It made a brief smell of clutch at the time, but it faded quickly.
So I am reading here about all these people with transmission issues, and I am trying to get a clarification on what these other cars did when the transmissions went out?
I am no car expert. I am just hoping it is just a clutch issue and not a "you need a new transmission issue". It seems in this thread that there are people with clutch issues and people with bad transmissions. Can anyone clarify their experiences with their Matrix? What happened exactly when the transmission went out? and when it made the grinding noise? Did it make the grinding noise while it was just idling?
In checking other forums, it seems that if the transmission is going then the car would be making an awful noise. But my car is not doing that. It just wont go into gear?
Since it's a weekend, I can't get it to my mechanic until Monday.
so in the meantime, I am just sitting here worried...
can anyone clarify for me?
Thanks for the info about reporting to www.safercar.gov
Hopefully there will be some recourse for us all!
Below is my report:
While driving down the highway one evening, an odd clicking sound was heard from the front end of our 2003 Toyota Matrix (manual transmission with 88,000 miles). The sound was louder with acceleration. After getting off the highway, the sound was noted to be louder in higher gears, and absent when the clutch was pressed down. The vehicle was brought in for service at our local Toyota dealer the next morning. After paying a $95 diagnostic fee, we were told the vehicle needed a new transmission at the estimated cost of $3300, with nothing being covered by any warranty or recall.
We brought the car to a transmission specialist for a rebuild. The bearings, rings, and two transfer gears were replaced, along with the clutch, at a cost of $2100. It is noted that the mechanic had a delay in getting the parts due to a manufacturer back order, reportedly from a high demand due to many others with the same problem with this makek/model car!
This is our first Toyota, which we bought due to their good reputation. It has been regularly maintained and subjected to only normal driving conditions. We have never had a vehicle with transmission problems and are shocked that this expensive repair was needed on such a young car. Toyota should be held responsible for covering the cost of what appears to be widespread transmission failure due to defective/inferior parts used on this vehicle!
Mine seemed fine on the highway expect for a high pitched whining noise. Prior to that it just sounded like a hole in the muffler. One the whining started, and I tried to shift down to stop, crunching noises started. After stopping and then starting again to continue driving to the nearest town, shifting was very difficult and crunchy sounding. Once I got into highway speed it went along fine, until of course I had to shift down again to stop. After that it would not shift again into any gear and I could not drive it at all. Horrible sounds when I tried to shift.
I can't believe that just the other day I saw a commercial from Toyota advertising their great reliability! Must be a reason why they all of sudden have to advertise that. Used to be a well known fact, but not anymore! I really want to see a news story about this issue, but no luck yet after 2.5y of cars falling apart one by one.
Thanks to those of you who have brought the problems with this transmission to Toyota's attention. I hope that you reach acceptable resolutions of your problems with Toyota as well.
Mitch
I know that we "stick-shifters" are a minority in this country....however, shouldn't we be giving it a shot?
If enough of you support this idea, it would be probably necessary to gather phone numbers/emails of "victims" to raise awareness....?
Any thoughts?
Eugenia
I actually sent an e-mail to the NYTimes & National Public Radio a few weeks back when the Prius' problems started to come to light.
I agree, we should all voice this concern and maybe we'll get some response. My '04 Matrix died at 62,000 K.
the e-mail addresses I used are:
letters@nytimes.com
atccommentary@npr.org
Here it what I wrote:
I have been reading and listening with great interest about Toyota and the latest design flaws with their newer models.
As a owner of a 2004 Toyota Matrix, with a failed manual transmission at 62,000 miles, I was disgusted and disappointed with the response I received from Toyota when I reported my problem. Manual transmissions last forever, and being a driver of "manuals" since the tender age of 16, I have never had a single one malfunction.
When I called to report the problem, representatives at Toyota Motor Company stated to me (and it seems others) that they had no record of a widespread problem.
When my particular issue cropped up, I turned to the internet forums to see if I was alone. I was shocked to find that I was not, and that Toyota dished the same story to my fellow 2003 and 2004 Matrix owners with their manual transmission problems.
My transmission died on the side of the road as I went to have Toyota take a look at the noise it was making. Had I been on a busy road at rush-hour I am sure I would have had a serious accident. Foot pedals that stick and brakes that don't work are major safety issues, to be sure, but I also believe that the transmission issues can pose serious risks to drivers as well and hat Toyota has not adequately acknowledged the problem.
For further reading about others with me in this bad transmission boat, please see: http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f0d9b0e/80
There are many posts on this site, some of which are related to clutches, but many of them are posts from owners with defunct manual transmissions.
I hope you will help to shed light on what seems to be a long-term and serious problem for Toyota.
We also STRONGLY remind members to NEVER post their personal contact information in a forum message. These forums are viewable to the entire internet, and can be searched by every engine - Google, Bing, Yahoo, etc. - we have no control over who may choose to record and use such information for malicious purposes.
Thanks for your cooperation.
kcram - Pickups/Wagons Host
So, Monday morning I am going to contact a lawyer with information in hand..I appreciate everyone posting information on here...ds
I may sound like a whiner as we got almost 100,000 miles on this car, but who here bought their car hoping for 100k? Who here bought a manual transmission expecting it's reliability would not even match a good automatic? I also have a '94 Toyota pickup with 204k miles and have only replaced the clutch once and it still goes about it's business with nary a complaint (Though, with a single cab and us having two kids, we were hoping to trade it in soon).
I've only bought 3 cars and all 3 had been Toyotas. Up until this past week, our 4th car would probably also have been a Toyota (I like the RAV4, my wife prefers the Highlander). Now, I don't know that I trust Toyota enough to trust my family with them anymore.
I have liked my Matrix pretty well although it seems that the ratio in first gear may be too low. This can make it difficult to get under way without spinning the tires, particularly on wet or slippery pavement. That could also explain some of the clutch problems reported here if people ride the clutch to avoid spinning the wheels. It could also explain rather poor performance in the snow. Perhaps the transmission is the same as in the Corolla but, with more weight in the rear end of the Matrix, traction in the front end is reduced resulting in spinning wheels. I'm not sure if this could contribute to the failures that have been reported but I would be interested in the thought of others regarding this issue.
I also bought a Tacoma new in 96 which is still being driven by my son at 240,000+ miles with the original clutch and transmission. My wife and I both laughed when we looked at a Ford Ranger at that time and the dealer mentioned that people had traded them in with over 100,000 miles on them. I'm hoping the new transmission in my Matrix holds up half as well. Then I might consider another Toyota. My fear is that Toyota's collaboration with GM has helped them to design products that fail as soon as the warranty expires rather than teaching GM the importance of building a reliable product!
I just experienced the same problem with my 2004 Matrix, with 115,000 miles. The car was making a strange noise, not loud, it just sounded like a loose shield of some type, just a slight rattle. I wasn't particularly concerned, but made an appointment for the dealer to take a look. Just as I was entering the Dealers driveway, the car let out a horrible screech and started bucking. I stopped and then tried putting it in gear. Just like previously described, it sounded like someone had tossed a handful of nuts and bolts into a blender.
I walked to the service department and told them what had happened. They towed my car into the shop and then came back and told me the car needed a new transmission and that the transmission failure had also destroyed the clutch. The repair would cost $3475.00. I was speechless.
I have been driving stick shift since I was 15 yrs ols, now 62 (47 years) I have never experienced a failure like this.
To add insult they told me the book value was only $3500.00. Didn't seem worth it to repair.
I traded the car in when they told me they would only sell it for salvage.
I just check my vehicle records on the toyota owners site and sse that they have repaired to car and have had it inspected. They are obviously going to re-sell it. I feel that everything they told me was a complete lie.
I checked back on the Toyota owners site and saw they repaired the car and had it inspected, so I guess they lies and are going to re-sell it.
Please see my original posts #14 (Feb/07) and #27 (Jun/07). I had the car repaired in Dec/2005.
Since then I have put 200,000 additional km on the car (commuter) without incident. You should all know that at 299,999 km the odometer stops working (stuck at this value). Known glitch apparently.
Recently though, the car started making the same sound as it did back in late 2005 prior to the repair.
The local transmission place confirmed my suspicion, and it was time to repair the transmission again. The rest of the car is great shape otherwise. At the same time I had the original clutch changed, and to save some coin ($Cdn 600)chose not to replace the cables. Syncros were also changed out this time. Total cost $Cdn 2850. Ouch.
I had a look at the parts, and the same culprit bearing replaced in 2005 was the culprit again in 2010.
The fact that I have now rebuilt the manual transmission twice is quite disappointing.
I was not at all impressed by the way that Toyota handled this problem, and judging by the number of posts on this forum, continues to handle the problem.
On principle, this will be my last Toyota.
Steve H.
Another interesting point was explained to me by my local transmission shop that did the install for me. The owner said that changes to components in anything automotive happen all the time and it's all based on cost and/or weight. He said something as simple as a bolt weighing 1 ounce less than a previous bolt can mean savings that add up to the hundreds of thousands or even millions. He said it was likely that something similar happened in this case ... a decision way down the line, by some bean-counter back in 2002-3 ("Hey, this bearing weighs 3 ounces less!") has resulted in grief for a large number of Matrix/Corolla owners. Not a justification, but a bit of an explanation.
The transmission was "redesigned" for my 2005, but the bearings were still marginal. As mentioned previously, mine let go at 117k miles. The replaced bearings have been ok for the past 4000 miles, but who knows how long they will last.
I doubt Toyota will ever stand behind this discrepant product.
I just got this from Toyota today.
Dear Mr. Saltzman:
We apologize for the concerns with your 2004 Matrix, and regret to advise we would not be in a position to offer further financial support of the vehicle.
Regarding any purported research of a technical issue, we would not have any information to share unless a Special Service Campaign or recall is released. If such an item is released, the vehicle owner and the dealership will be notified.
At this time, the Matrix is far out of the warranty which is for 5 years or 60, 000 miles from the vehicle's in-service date, whichever occurs first., and we do not show any Special Service Campaigns or recalls on this vehicle for the condition described. Once a vehicle is beyond the warranty parameters, responsibility for the cost of repair falls upon the vehicle owner. We apologize we are unable to further assist you in this matter.
It is because of comments such as yours that we are able to review our products and improve them.
We regret you are dissatisfied and comments have been documented at our National Headquarters under file#XXXXXXXXXXXXX.
If you require further clarification on Toyota's position, please contact our offices by responding to this email or contacting us by phone at 800-331-4331.
Sincerely,
Anita Mouton
Toyota Customer Experience
What a crock. I have referred them to this site and they still won't do anything. I have filed with NTHSB...Written to my congressman....someone tell me some good news.
I decided to trade the car in at 117k. I couldn't wait for the bearing to go again. Bought a Certified Pre-Owned 2007 BMW X-3 3.0si. M-badged Sport Pkg, premium package, heated seats, leather everything, panoramic two-piece sunroof, etc. Solid as a rock, 260 hp from an in-line 6, and corners like a sports car. LOVE IT! Extended warranty and maintenance program. They treated me like I was special. First time ever (that's 40 years) in a dealer that I didn't feel (or know) I was trying to be had.
Save your sheckles and move up. It's cheaper than a lawyer.
I also wonder if more frequent trans oil changes would make a difference. Most failures seem to happen ~100K miles. I suspect most of those failed trannys had their original oil in them. I changed the trans oil in my '88 Accord every 30K miles and I plan to do that in my '06 Matrix.
When people google "Matrix transmission problems" this thread is one of the first things to pop up. It makes sense that this thread generates most if all of the complaints since another forum is not readily available to click on in google results.
I hope that the knowledge that you changed your '88 Accord's oil every 30K miles brings you comfort when you are replacing your Matrix's transmission at 100K to 130K miles.
There are a lot of very angry people on this forum who paid an exorbitant amount of money to replace a defective part on their Toyotas. We've all heard from Toyota that it must be our fault that the transmission broke, but most of us also heard from our mechanics what the real reason was. It is frustrating to read someone, with no knowledge of the individual circumstances everyone went through, try to suggest that it must be our own fault that the transmission broke down at 100K.
Perhaps the reason that there aren't many complaints yet is that it typically takes about ten years for people to drive 100K miles and the '03 and '04 Matrices are just now hitting that mark... I haven't heard anything about the '06 Matrix, but you'll have to let us all know how that turns out for you.
Enjoy your Matrix!
If the posts on this forum represent all the failures in these transmissions that's really not a bad record considering the number of these cars sold. The transmission failure was not what I expected of my Toyota but I believe Toyota was reasonably fair in providing a new transmission for installation costs only. If the new transmission performs as my other Toyotas have I will have no qualms about buying Toyotas in the future. If it fails at <100,000 miles I will probably look elsewhere for my next car.
If and when you hear "the noise" in your Matrix I suggest you have it towed to a dealer for diagnosis and repair. The dealer is in the best position to, and has the greatest interest in, providing some cost adjustment on the repair. It looks like many of those who posted here had their cars repaired by independent mechanics and then tried to get Toyota to cover the cost. Good luck with your Matrix!
I didn't say it was. Don't put words in my mouth. My 'Scheduled Maintenance Guide' calls for no trans oil change in 120K miles, except under 'Special Operating Conditions'.
> There are a lot of very angry people on this forum...
Well, don't be angry at me. OK?
> It is frustrating to read someone, with no knowledge of the individual circumstances everyone went through, try to suggest that it must be our own fault that the transmission broke down at 100K.
Again, that's not what I said. I read pretty much this whole thread. I have some knowledge of what people went through. This conversation ends here. If I wanted to be browbeaten I would have gone to USENET.
Anyway, this is just an internet forum and should not be a day ruiner, so sorry for any strife.
Symptom: rattling when accelerating at low RPMs.
Current mileage: 99262km
Toyota on Front: "Sounds like it might be coming from the
transmission, don't see anything else wrong. We can replace it for $3800."
I have since found this forum.
I plan to take it to an independent mechanic to have a look.
In the meantime I am considering alternatives to advocate for our plight...
They think it has to do with recent Toyota difficulties that they decided to refund APA members that complained about their Matrix (I am not the only that has been refunded).
That $750 refund was welcome and I think the company is heading the good direction.
So if your are in Quebec, contact APA, they may help you!
I doubt that my dealer will give me the part for free, they are always trying to get me to pay for a bunch of unneeded services when I go in for regular oil changes. Once they tried to get me to go for and "Engine Shampoo". No, really.
I'm pretty sure they aren't going to spring for a $2000 tranny without a fight...
kcram - Pickups/Wagons Host
Ps - on the only positive note I can think of at this moment, I am glad I found this forum last night, if not I may have tried to drive on the highway (110KM/hour) to get it to the dealership (instead of towing) to have them check it but could have endangered my own life, my girlfriends, and who knows who else if I would have lost control at 110KM/hour on the highway if it would have locked up!, so thank you for your posts (even years later),....TBCont.....