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Comments
Bob
I think our problem here is that we will never get Toyota to acknowledge this issue because this really isn't their car. Here in the USA this model was also sold as the Pontiac Vibe. There are reports of the Vibe having similar problems:
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f0dad00
The Vibe and Matrix appear to have been built at the NUMMI plant in Fremont, California:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NUMMI
Here's a link to fascinating podcast about the history of the NUMMI plant:
TAL - NUMMI
It is mentioned in the above podcast that NUMMI was a joint venture with GM and once Toyota phased out their production they took the parts quality control with them.
I thought I had bought a Toyota product which was also being badged as a Vibe for Pontiac dealers. In the end it appears that I bought a Pontiac with a Toyota Matrix emblem stuck on it. :sick:
5-speed was built in Canada. The transmission is outsourced, however. Aisin, I believe.
Now, here is a warning for those who have not had trouble: Don't continue to drive until the tranny self-destructs. This will cost you $3000+. When you first hear a strange sound-like a muffled rattle, get the transmission repaired. I did this with a reputeable local shop plus new clutch for about $1400. I've put 7000+ miles on it since with no problem.
There is a fool-proof test for the suspect bearing. Start the car with the transmission in neutral and the parking brake set.. With the engine at idle, engage the clutch and listen for that muffled rattle. Then disengage the clutch and listen carefully. If the frequency of the rattle and sound level diminish to nothing, it is the countershaft bearing. It is not the throwout bearing, since that bearing is loaded and running at engine idle speed with the clutch pedal depressed.
The problem is in the front countershaft bearing, not the input shaft bearing. The countershaft is constantly thrust loaded except in 4th gear. In all other gears, the torque goes from the input shaft into the countershaft, then to the output shaft. Helical gears in the box generate the thrust load in proportion to the torque being transmitted. In 4th gear, the torque goes straight through from input to output shaft, therefore no thrust load on the countershaft.
The countershaft bearing is accessible without pulling the tranny, so you don't need to replace the clutch. Your mechanic can pull the driveshafts and remove the back cover. The contershaft, gear, and bearing can then be removed. The bearing will have to be pressed off. A new bearing is only about $50, so the parts are cheap. Labor is 2-3 hours. Make sure the mechanic puts new axle seals in before putting the whole thing back together.
So, hopefully, this message will get to those who have the telltale noise, but no complete failure yet.
A final suggestion: Drive in 4th gear as much as possible. Any speed between 40 and 65 is ok for that gear. This will prolong the life of the bearing.
Good luck
Clutch started slipping within the first 20K. Now at 75K it feels like 200. Brought it to the dealer several times. "No problem". Thanks Keyes Toyota. Y'all come back real soon!. If 75K sounds low, it is. We baby this thing.
My wife and I have been driving sticks forever. Her last car - Tercel - had 190K on the original clutch which was still going strong when we sold it. Somehow our gross incompetence is to blame for this. I don't think so. I had a hunch the car was too heavy for the transmission.
Now the wife hears a muffled rattle that I don't hear. Glad I found this forum, Will be calling Toyota today.
PM me or respond here if you want more info or if there is really a class action to join.
Regards,
~ JT
Every 30K miles is optimum.
Steve (from 3 years ago) had a manual transmission with a failed bearing.
What part(s) failed in your auto trans?
It was pretty dark, with a metallic sheen and a slightly gritty feel.
Seemed in worse shape than the trans oil in my previous Hondas after 30K miles.
In hindsight I would have changed it at 10K miles.
I plan to change it every 30K from now on.
I refilled with Valvoline 75W-90 (dino).
I think it was $12 well spent.
51k miles on the clock. bought it brand new from toyota in caldwell nj in 03.
aamoco want $3900 to fix.
Toyota and aamoco...steer clear of both companies if u know whats good 4 u
Yes, stay away from AAMCO (All Automatics Must Come Out)
I'm curious, did you ever have the transmission oil/fluid changed?
My car has so far been completely trouble free (knock on wood) and averages 34 to 38 MPG depending on the highway/city mix.
The Transmission is ruined. I paid the $3000 for the super extended Warranty and I did all of the service that was communicated to me by Toyota and more.
Toyota Will Not Honor the Warranty.
Toyota will do nothing for me. They are Scum.
I have two Toyotas, Both are for sale. I'm finished with Toyota.
Some interesting Facts about my case:
1. Toyota never gave me an Owners manual or an Owners manual supplement when I purchased the car New. They said they were out and that they would order one for me. I have never recieved either.
2. If I lived in Maine or Alaska or Texas, I would never need to replace the oil in the Transmission as it is only required to check the level if the car is purchased in the states.
3. Toyota knows this is a problem.
4. They've been trying to hide it for 7 years.
5. There is a recall against my Car which Toyota did not inform me of. I had to find it on the internet.
6. There are 11 Technical Service Bullitens on my car, of which Toyota informed me of NONE.
I say we launch a class action suit against Toyota. They deserve it. My new Hobby is causing problems for Toyota. I should have some time to commit to my new hobby as I no longer can drive anywhere.
Here is my first Idea:
All of you, Go to your local Toyota Dealer on Saturday. Hang around looking at cars, If a sales guy approaches, Tell him you're not decided yet, you're just thinking about trading up. If a Customer approaches you, Tell him your story and tell him to Run! We'll beat the buggers by Attrition. This won't help in making Toyota pay for your Tranny but it will be satisfying when you turn away a customer, or save some innocent consumer the trouble you suffered. If there are twenty of you at that dealer, Try not to congregate or form an angry Mob. That could look bad for our case.
Don't get Mad, Don't get Even. Ruin Them!!!
Hate Toyota!
Mega A-Hole KEYES Toyota quoted $2400. Did I mention A-Hole KEYES? That's K-E-Y-E-S. AVOID!
The shop that did the work did not adjust the freeplay properly and I pointed that out. They responded that it should be normal, but would be happy to hear a second opinion. I went to a Toyota dealer (NOT KEYES - I did mention them, rght?) and had them take a look. The dealer adjusted the freeplay for free and now all is well. The shop that did the replacement offered to pay for the adjustment.
FYI the shop that did me right was Auto Stiegler in Reseda. Speak to Johnny.
NO THANKS TO TOYOTA AND A SPECIAL GO EFF YOURSELF TO THE USLESS SERVICE MANAGER AT KEYES TOYOTA. THE ONLY THING THEY MANAGE IS TO AVOID HAVING TO STEP UP.
Later it came back and did it in every gear (previously only in 1 and 2, maybe 3). I was going to take it in but it went away. I had a dry-bearing/rattling sound I noticed in the past few weeks. Then today while driving on the highway in fifth, there was a high pitched whine which got worse as I drove. Finally stopped and the transmission lost a few gears and barely drives. Reverse is gone.
I'll have to see how much it is going to cost to fix but looking at $3000+ with new clutch and flywheel (if I do it myself), which is really worth more than the car. I'll see how much the stealership wants to charge me tomorrow
Thanks,
George
I just bought a used 6 speed from them for about $1100. This is cheaper than available used 5 speeds because of the high rate of replacement. The connections to the engine and shifter are the same and there are no electronics so the installation should be identical to the 5 speed. With a clutch and labor this repair should be less than $2500 compared to toyota's $4000 for a brand new inferior 5 speed.
It is unfortunate you gave up your voice to Toyota Cda. They would have filled it out with all complimentary comments and mailed it out.
I had an 03 AWD (auto) I guess i will find out if the autos were problematic, but i did deal my car while still under wty cuz i did not have confidence in the tranny. The car was used to pack a road down with fresh gravel on a hill. We assume this made the tranny too hot? But it had lots of rest between moving. It seemed to me to too easily smell hot. So i swapped out the tranny fluid right away (was way premature, only had 25k km on the car) But cuz i had put a hitch on the car to pull a very light utility trlr to the dump at times with never more than about 600 lb plus 225lb trlt weight, i thought i might have a problem with Toyota, so i dealt it while under lots of wty. To this day I would like to know if that tranny ever failed. I guess I could find out by paying the 20 bucks for the prev owners list, but don't want to bug them. Had a guy call me up one day that did that. he had bought my 2.5 year old F150 4x4 which was clean as awhistle with 50 k on it, from the young couple i sold it to a few years earlier. He said the door bottoms were rusting out and the 4x4 fr axle had cost him a small fortune etc etc. I told i felt bad for him, but that truck had a great start in life and was babied by me. The young couple obviously didn't care for it at all.
I was one of the first to post in this thread. (Post #17 http://bit.ly/ijWmIw). At the time I guessed more of this would crop up. There are now 460 posts in this thread and Toyota has yet to acknowledge a problem.
I am sad and disheartened because I love the Matrix. I love its size, fuel economy, functionality, and Toyota's commitment to hybrids and less emissions.
However, in the last three and a half years I drove my Matrix less and less (barely 60,000km, compared to 108,000km in first 3.5 years) because I feared the transmission would break down again. I didn't trust my car.
I have told my story to anyone shopping for a car. A grown adult will only buy an average of what? 9 cars in their lifetime? Toyota decided that they would rather dismiss the problem than have me buy a Toyota ever again. Damage like this can't be undone.
My Matrix was recently hail damaged beyond repair and I had to find a new car.
I voted with my wallet and bought a 2010 Hyundai Elantra Touring GLS Sport :shades:
R.I.P. Matrix
R.I.P. Toyota
On my way home today(during a blizzard mind you) It started making god awful noises from the gearbox I assume. got about 2 blocks from home & the thing totally seized up!(engine still purrs) can't even push the car with it in neutral!! this car only has 128k on it now. my first Toyota(my first foreign car actually) & I'm less than impressed so far. Pretty pissed actually. Was expecting at least 200k before sinking any $$ into it! I always heard Toyota quality was second to none? I drove rusty beat up escorts & oldsmobiles & always got 200k out of those with minamal maintenance. had the matrix towed to the tranny shop here in downtown Detroit Michigan. what is the average cost of a rebuild? is it even worth it? I really liked the car! it was pretty functional/useful & got a good 35mpg. Out of it... from what I am reading I guess this is a very common issue. and it's not a cheap fix I'm hearing..any suggestions?
Unfortunately, this transmission is not rebuildable. De3signed as a throw-away. You better find $3000=$3500 for a new one.
Toyota says they have no knowledge of these failures. What a lie. Another reason not to buy another one.
PS: My brother had a rod let go in his 2000 Camry last year at 80,000 miles. He is a very slow careful driver, so it was not his fault. Toyota blew him off. He just got another new one. I told him not to.
Lets move forward to 6 months ago
The Car started making the same noise!!! I was concerned at 130,00 miles and brought it to the transmission guy that did the work. he siad that the bearing was probably starting to wear but no major concerns. If the noise gets louder than we can always open it up for $2500. :surprise:
Last week I was driving home from VT and it felt like the transmission droped out of the car DOA in 1,2,3, gear, with bearly able to get it in to reverse. :sick:
Many repair options , new trasmission, $4,00 rebuilt ( cant find it) or salvage $1500-$2000. The problem is after all the posts I have read I cant see spending the money to have the same problem happen again , and who knows how long it will last. :mad:
My Family has been buying toyotas for years , my brother has an Avalon with 200,000 miles still going strong.
I feel that I go screwed by toyota becuause I even mentioned it mult times to the dealer and they said that this is a very odd problem that could not be common, or blaimd it on the accident.
Good luck everyone but I am going to buy a new car , it is sad that this car that I really enjoyed and loved has to come to an end by going to salvage. Thanks for Toyota not caring about their customers ! ]
throw out bearing failure in the future. My 09 Matrix is doing fine so far, the only thing in manual compare to previuos model is the shifter has longer throws than the previous generation.
Too late now, but too bad u didn't see these posts back when you first heard the noise. At that point it is repairable from around 1500 bucks. But if you ignore it due to to getting dishonest advice, that figure becomes over 4500.
And it is hard to find a used one because everyone else has already bought them up. And this part is what infuriates me about Toyota.
Even if you pay the big bucks for a new trans, it will fail prematurely also. Apparently there is a bearing in a location that is difficult (impossible$) to properly lube. So they will wilfully take your money as many times as you are willing. People are getting (some) up to 100k or a bit more, but keep reading...you will find those too finally caved with that bad bearing about 10k mi after first hearing the sound.
With all the documentation available, I would be tempted to sue your crooked dealer for outright lying to you.
In the future, always get a second or third opinion. And never ever be ok with "oh, that's normal, they all do that".
Right...and they all will fail too..