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Audi allroad Suspension Questions
Often when starting my 2002 Allroad I have to wait 15 to 30 seconds for the air supsension warning light to go off. The front end has dropped so low the tires are almost touching the wheel wells. Is this an indication of malfunction, or is it normal?
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Any comment is appreciated.
Mine is 03 with 26K miles on it. The alignment problem probably started from day one. I took my Allroad to the dealer 3 times and once to an alignment specialist. The dealer spent a lot of time adjusting the alignment but at the end it was the same. The alignment shop did better. The problem went away for a couple of weeks but eventually it came back. I suspect it has something to do with the air suspension too. If just one of the suspensions is slightly off this would cause the car to pull. Right?
Anyone having the same problem please post something. If other people are having the same problem then it's probably a defect and if enough people complain hopefully Audi will come up with a solution.
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In any event, here's an update. I just replaced my tires (stock Good Year's pretty much wore out at 25k miles) with Michelin Sport A/S, and the car no longer pulls to the right. The difference is striking, and I find the overall handling much better too. I cannot say if the problem will be solved by switching tires, but in the meantime I feel like I'm driving a new car.
I took my car into a trusted alignment shop and they were able to get the pull to the right out but they told me they weren't able to get the cambers to match. Left needed to be at -1˚ and the right the closest the can get is -1.625˚. They say it can be a half a degree off but clearly it's 1/8 beyond that. Which is troubling me as the burnt rubber smell still exists; this is not a good sign (I had the same smell problem with my older tires). But my car does drive so much smoother and quieter with these new tires because they don't have the uneven wear (yet!).
I've read on other forums on alignment topics (this was for an 02 A4): www.audilife.com/forums/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=7812 that you'll want to do your alignment at the dealer because the whole subframe in front has to be loosened and shifted. Audi has a special tool for it. I'm not sure if this is something that applies to the Allroads. :confuse:
Nevertheless, My mistake for not asking the shop if they know how to do this and I'll have to eat $80, so I'll have to take it to the dealer to have them rectify the problem. At least I know the settings and they will do it over and over till they get it right. What a pain.
I love this car but now I realize buying an SUV would have been a good tradeoff. Crappy gas miles are better than constant trips to the dealer.
The reviews on tirerack.com with the stock tires display the same problem from other drivers. I'm fighting with Audi right now that there is something wrong with the car. I'm having all four tires changed once again with a set of Bridgestone's, but I'm going to have the dealership mount them. If these go out of round, I'm taking them to court.
I love this car too, but the amount of time I've wasted at the audi dealership, goodyear store and talking to the customer reps from audi, goodyear and sonic automotive (they own the dealerships) isn't worth it.
For $2700 I hope the new bladders fixed it? Any clues why the symptom comes and goes?
shlusher, if only one was an issue, why did you replace both front? Anyone see any of the rears go?
Once the bag has gone bad, there's nothing to be done but replace it, at a cost of around $700.
They also told me that airbag failures happen mostly to owners that leave their cars at level 1, which I did, as it puts a lot of stress on the bag. Putting the car at level 2 often would temporarily seal the level 1 leak. If your car drops when parked, it needs attention to keep from overheating the compressor while driving.
I reported last year that my car was pulling to the right and numerous trips to the dealer and alignment specialist found no cure. Now my allroad has almost 50k. I have always suspected it's the air suspension that is the root of the problem but the dealer kept saying the computer picked up no error code from the suspension system so it can't be the suspension.
Guess what. I have always noticed the allroad was slightly uneven after parking overnight but it was not significant enough to tell for sure. Recently I went on a trip and left the car parked for two weeks. When I returned the driver side suspension completely lost pressure. This time when I took the car back to the shop they kept it overnight and found a leak with the suspension. After replacing the air bag inside the suspension the alignment problem magically went away. I'm lucky enough that I had a couple hundred miles to spare before the warranty expires and the repair was covered. It took me almost 3 years to get the problem finally fixed. Even though the dealer was nice enough to keep adjusting the alignment I would fault them for not looking hard enough. It's a pity that it took so long to get it fixed and it really took the fun out of driving the car for the last three years.
So if you have a pulling problem that won't go away insist the dealer to inspect the suspension for leak.
Good luck.
Many on the forum members believe the o-rings seals leak. I just don't believe that the o-rings can ever leak if installed properly. My experience indicates that the leaks appear in the rounded portions on the lower side of the bladders. You cannot see the holes, only soap bubbles where the leaks exist. When the level is raised above level 2, the bladder begins to straighten out and the holes tend to seal.
The only fix is to replace the bladders and this is not an inexpensive job. Audi must use a ton of these bladders.
If a bladder leaks, it's probably best to replace its mate also because they seem to fail about the same time. So far, the rear bladders on my car have not failed, but both fronts have failed within 60K miles.
Based on my experience, if you have good tires - certainly none of the tires that came on the Allroads from the factory - and your car is properly alligned, which is not difficult, your car will track just fine and the tires will wear just fine leaky bladders or not. I have used V-rated Bridgestone's and V-rated ContiContact's with great success. Oh yes, I highly recommend running the tire air pressure at 35 psi, not 30 psi per Audi. The tires wear very evenly at the higher pressure without compromising anything.
Happy driving!
I'm looking for repair suggestions.. Can this be done with parts in hand, or are there such special tools and techniques that I'm dealer locked?
Dealer just quoted me to install front left and front right airbags as follows
2x $540 for front bag
2x $48 for an install kit
2x $160 for a bracket they suggest you replace
$150 alignment
plus 6 hours labor at $120 / hour
Total quote was over $2600
The time allocated for the work is about right.
Some good news. I know of no rear air bladders that have failed and that's a good thing. Some must have failed but it must happen very infrequently.
More good news. When you get this repair completed, you will not only find that the air suspension works as designed, but the car feels like a brand new car. I think the replacement of the defective rubber bushings has a lot to do with that. I hated to spend the big bucks, but I was thrilled with the results.
Worth mention. I am now using level 3 around town. I think it places a lot less stress on the front air bladders and besides you can see that much better.
It is necessary to place a chain around the suspension to keep the wheel from falling relative to the car when the car is lifted to work on the air bladder/suspension, i.e. lifting the car and allowing the wheel to drop fully is not appropriate for the work. I don't thinks any special tools are required except for the heavy chain.
Hope this helps.
Not sure if the repair kit includes the bushings you speak of, but it sounds like no. I'm still a bit confused as to why both sides lower if only one bag is beat. I guess that somehow the air distribution / balancing keeps the two in sync. For the record the dealer said that both the repair kit and the front bladders are universal (fit both front left and front right).
I do not believe for one second that a seal kit will do one thing for your car. I frankly cannot believe that the o-ring seal for the air bladder can ever leak if installed properly.
I had assumed that you did the leak test with soapy water on both front seals at levels 1, 2, 3 and 4. I am obviously mistaken. Run the test as I outlined earlier before taking your car in so that you know what's leaking. Start at level 1 and work upwards on one bladder. If it leaks, stop and move to the second air bladder. Repeat the process. If only one bladder leaks, you certainly have the option to just replace the one air bladder with kit and nothing else. When the second air bladder begins to leak, then do what you have to do.
Good luck!
As for the replacement procedures we used the highest settings (4), placed in jack mode, and got to work. The key for us was to "carefully" remove the air supply from the bag early in the process. Doing so relieved pressure on the front suspension components and greatly simplified the change out.
Also, note the need for a star wrench to remove the top six or so top bolts. The install kit includes the replacement star bolts. If you don’t have the star driver, try NAPA (Advance Auto did not have that driver, btw).
The "allroad" tires, no matter the brand, are terrible and I can say nothing good about them. They vibrate, wear terribly and steer pitifully. I don't know if your car has those tires mounted. If so, get rid of them. I'm using Bridgestones now. Have had good success with Conti CV95, also.
Vibrations can be caused by all kinds of things. One source could be your front outer CV joints. They may need to be repacked with the appropriate grease. After 50,000-60,000 miles, the boots for the CV joints cracked on my car. This can cause a greasy mess and result in vibrations throughout the car. I cannot comment about the inner CV joints on this car - probably less susceptible to problems. By the way, in the distant past vibrations caused by the CV joints were eliminated by replacement of the CV joints. More recently, just repacking and a new boot will do the trick in all but rare instances.
Also, I have to assume that cracked rubber bushings (common after 40,000-50,000 miles)on the front suspension near the shocks could be a source of the problem.
Am flying blind - hope this helps.
They did do a complementary 15 point inspection...not sure if they would pick up a cracked CV boot with that.
I'll check the bushing on the front suspension.
I just hope it's the tires. It's scary when you are on a first name basis with all the guys at the dealership
Again, check the CV joint boots carefully for cracks with a strong light. Again, use a strong light to check for bushing cracks - they can be pretty subtle in appearance.
Good luck.
In case you have not read my previous filings:
You have a leak in your front air spring(s). I doubt that there is any problem with your air pump. Use the soapy water test I outlined previously to confirm the problem. It is a very simple test and doesn't take much time.
A very good source for the air springs is www.genuineaudiparts.com.
Even with the air spring changeout, I have decided to drive around town and overnight park in level 3 because I am convinced there is less stress on the air springs at this level. I'm confident the air springs will last a lot longer doing this.
Hard to believe your allroad has 117,000 miles and this is the first front air spring change. If so, you are a very lucky man indeed.
Thanks
I replaced my LF AS under warranty a year and a half ago and the RF just went out (I had to pay this time). Had I known about this AS cleaning, they may have lasted longer.
I have a 2001, and it's coming up on 100K (I bought it used five years ago with 60K on it). I'm selling it because, after the 90K servicing and this latest AS (they also had to replace my tie rod ends which brought it up to approx. $1200), I can't afford the constant parts-replacing I've been doing, esp. now that I'm out of warranty. I LOVE the car... when it works. :sick:
David