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Jeep Wrangler

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Comments

  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    Typical of most governments, they are stepping in where they don't belong.

    Funny, where were all the "Four Wheelers" when the government was trampling the RIGHTS of gun owners? (4 wheeling isn't even in the Bill of Rights)

    They took most of Massachusetts away from us, and now are coming to your neck of the woods. Where was Alabama when they were taking Massachusetts?

    I feel for ya. Been there, done that.

    If we don't hang together, we hang alone.
  • shill3shill3 Member Posts: 124
    Just south of us around Sedona, you can drive for free, but must have a pass to park. Apparently they are pretty strict about it. Actually, the fee is not terribly steep and with all the visitors that they get, someone has to pay for maintenance and upkeep.

    We have seen a lot more restrictions on off-roading in Arizona, but considering how long it takes the environment to heal from those who had abused it, I can understand that as well. I am convinced that only a small minority off-road irresponsibly, but unfortunately, since it is assumed that only a handful of SUV's ever go off-road, the false assumption is that we are all trashing the woods just like the commercials show.
  • ndovarasndovaras Member Posts: 8
    Hi Folks,

    I've been reading through these threads for several weeks now. I'm about to buy a 2003 Sport and have the dealer down to $300 over invoice. I know that the advertising fee ($340) and destination charge ($610) are set buy I'm being hit with a Dealer Conveyance Fee ($189) as well.
    Does anyone know what this is? Every time I turn around there's a new fee.

    Thanks.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I hate the user fees too, especially the "demonstration" one implemented a couple of years ago. Out here cow grazing is subsidized out the ying-yang but they want to nickel and dime you to go recreate. /rant!


    This seems appropriate: Jeep First Official Vehicle of Army-Navy Game.


    Ndovaras, a dealer conveyance fee sounds like the usual "doc fee" for getting the title and plates to you. But $50 is plenty; the rest is just "extra profit."


    Steve, Host

  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    I think that fee you mention, "Dealer Conveyance," is something that all dealers charge, though it may be called by different names at the various dealers.

    It's just a way for them to get some more profit into the sale. They will tell you it's supposed to offset their costs in doing the paperwork for the sale.

    I found that that fee was not negotiable at my dealer when I got my Jeep, but they sold me the Jeep for $200 over invoice and gave me $1000 more than average trade-in value on my trade-in vehicle, so I didn't complain too much about their fee. I don't think it was quite as high as the fee they are charging you. I think your fee is on the high side, but not totally out of line compared to what most dealers charge.

    Good luck! Congrats on getting a new Jeep!

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • ndovarasndovaras Member Posts: 8
    Thanks Guys. Actually, I was charged both Dealer Conveyance and Registration (doc) fees. I thought the Registration fee was for title, plates, paperwork etc. Perhaps the Conveyance fee is for other stuff like turkey, stuffing, wine and salad for the big Jeep Dealer feast. These guys know that we’re all after a low "over invoice" charge so they make it right back with all these fees. Just when I think I'm doing well I realize they're still pulling one over on me.
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    We all pay "Tax, Title, and Registration," and that money does not go to the dealer. If you want to handle your own registration, I think the dealer would simply sell you the vehicle without charging you the title and registration fee, but I think they would be required to charge you sales tax. You would then have to go to the courthouse or wherever and take care of the registration yourself, and the fees they charge you would be the same that they would have charged the dealer.

    The dealer conveyance or whatever is not part of Tax, Title, and Registration. The dealer keeps all of the money that they get for the conveyance charge. Supposedly, that fee includes their taking care of the paperwork for you, including getting your registration for you (bet they wouldn't knock off a penny, though, if you handled the registration yourself).

    Just pay 'em and start enjoying that Jeep!

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    People out to close down off roading areas ought to think about the good, clean, family fun that off roading offers.

    At Turkey Bay, those of us with Jeeps have to share the area with dirt bikes, four wheelers, and dune buggies. This is no problem, as far as I am concerned. I enjoy seeing people having a good time in the good old outdoors, especially when the entire family is enjoying it together.

    I see entire families tooling around in Jeeps, and I see family groups with each family member operating a dirt bike or four wheeler. I see little kids who appear to be as young as five or six riding dirt bikes in family groups.

    One bunch of people I hooked up with one time had a little boy about five years old in one of the Jeeps, and he was LOVIN' the wheelin' experience. Someone in the group who knew the boy said he watches Jeep videos for hours at a time when he could otherwise be watching cartoons, like most kids would.

    The way family members seem to all "do their own thing" these days and spend very little time together, isn't it cool that families can spend all day wheelin' or dirt bikin' or whatever?

    There is much that is good about off roading!

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    ... Happy Thanksgiving, everyone! Be safe!

    tidester, host
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    That's Turkey Day, not Turkey Bay!

    Enjoy, all!
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    You are not alone. Read this from someone I correspond with:

    "Boat Grabbers:

    Small plane pilots already have some serious regulations. Ever see the medical standards?

    The real problem in getting many groups together to fight for the removal of government in people's lives is that the majority of the people are too closed minded on the scope of the issue. I used to enjoy taking my Jeep out into the woods to spend a weekend or week camping, hiking, or Mountain Biking in some really nice areas of this state. Well, as there are Gun Owners who are jerks, so are their Jeep Owners, Hikers, and Mountain Bike Riders.

    The problem is not that there are good people that make up the vast majority of the participants, but that the few jerks get all the publicity.

    Case in point: When my 4WD club used to visit a particularly nice area in western MA, we made a point to seriously clean the area. We collected many bags of cans and bottles, and even dragged out trashed vehicles. We had one local police officer thank us for our work when we called to tell them we had put two vehicles at a trailhead. That area is now officially "CLOSED" because some residents were ticked off by all the trash. I have since walked through the area and the trash is 1000 times worse because there is NOONE in there but the people who caused the problems - Local kids. So, instead of free clean-ups, some added money to local business, and regular use of the land by "good" people, it is now a dump. But the residents who complained got their wish.

    The same principle exists for every other activity that someone wants stopped. It is so easy to point out the bad things that happen. It is so easy to show evidence of wrong doing. The hard part is to show how many people don't do those things to people who a) have no understanding of the activity, and b) who quite honestly don't care because they don't participate.

    We see it in our own community. How many times do we see hunters or trap shooters turn their backs when handgun laws are discussed - because it doesn't affect them?

    Ask any motorized recreationalist about having areas declared a "wilderness" and see what they say. Sure, to the average Joe Public, a Wilderness designation sounds great. What most people don't know is that it also means absolutely noone can use the land unless they walk in. All roads that already exist are closed, all trails are pedestrian only, and even aircraft are denied in the airspace overhead. Still sound good? Guess what happens when a fire breaks out? Since nobody has used the roads, they are overgrown and a lot of damage to the land is done using heavy equipment to clear "emergency roads" The results are far worse than any recreation use.

    Look at Ham Radio Operators. Because radio spectrum is a finite resource and extremely valuable, the government is seriously considering taking away bands they feel are underutilized and selling it to the highest bidder.

    The ideal situation would be for all interest groups to band together under one simple ideal and send a really strong message to government of "Get your darn mitts outta my life!"

    But because there are so many nanny groups out there who can't think beyond their petty problems this is not going to happen. Some Ham Radio operators will question the support of dirt bike riders. Some balloonist will question the support of removing helmet laws. Cyclists will deny the rights of ATV use. Jeep owners will turn their backs on the equestrians.

    All because we are a country of small minded people who can't begin to think about anything outside their little circle of knowledge and have been encouraged by government to use the will of the majority to deny the rights of the minority.

    But try to point out the implication to someone. I have found that very few people grasp the concept that if any one right can be taken away by the vote of the majority, then any right can be so taken. Eventually, the mob rule WILL find something you do care about. And then, when it is far too late, they will join an advocate group and fight the fight.

    I am sure there are people in government who understand all this. I am sure they laugh at all the little pathetic activist groups who complain to them. Why shouldn't they? Unless the group had the numbers to threaten his job, they are of no concern.

    Do you really think that Medicare coverage of prescriptions is any more or less important than other issues? But because a large chunk of votes come from people who would like to not pay for the drugs they need, it is extremely important to the political machine.

    If someone has a workable plan to unite all the little activist groups under an encompassing message to government of "Don't Tread On Me", I'd love to see it.

    Because clearly the current government mind obviously doesn't care one bit that they have severely over stepped their bounds on a great many things."
  • bamatazzbamatazz Member Posts: 311
    IM behind ya tom...u GO
    WOW..im gone for awhile takes me forever to read all these post.. U guys are on your soap box..
    well, anway... I hope all of you have a GREAT turky day..make sure u eat too much meat, that way get PETA upset with ya too.. :)
    PETA= People Eating Tasty Animals

    Keep Jeepin
    BAMA
    Roll Tide
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    Where ya been, Boy? 'Bout time we heard from ya again!

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    Pete:

    Love your new pics in Gill's and here in Edmunds. You are one lucky dude to live out there where the scenery is so gorgeous and to have a Jeep to go sight seeing in!

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • saharagalsaharagal Member Posts: 88
    Here in the Atlanta area, there's a dealer "service" fee of $399. All dealers charge it. Your amount sounds pretty reasonable compared to that! Just call other dealers in your area to see if everyone else charges that amount. I'd also ask them how much they tend to get in relation to invoice. When I bought mine in July 2001, most dealers in Atlanta were selling Wranglers for a couple hundred UNDER invoice. They were more than happy to divulge that over the phone too!

    Laura
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    LOL!


    OT link: http://www.mtd.com/tasty/


    :-)


    (I support you, too, Tom, don't get me wrong!)

  • mtngalmtngal Member Posts: 1,911
    Have a happy Thanksgiving! Hope it is safe for everyone and anyone driving arrived safely. I sure enjoyed my turkey and all the fixings.
  • bamatazzbamatazz Member Posts: 311
    Hello Jeepers
    IM here, just been busy. Holidays are busy time for me. My daughters bday is Nov My sons is DEC. Throw Tgiving & Christmas in there & WOW!

    LOL PETA..I didnt know I had a web site. Thats cool

    Update for Tazz-- Installing new speakers today Polk for dash Alpine's for front.
    Also gonna install amp maybe in JAN.

    Hope enjoyed shopping today. I hit Wal-Mart at 6:30 this morning, trying to get my kids a TV
    they were out. WOW it was CROWDED

    Keep Jeepin
    BAMA!! Roll Tide
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    What a super day it was today! Old Ross Allen and Grandpa went to Turkey Bay today and had a great time. The weather was beautiful for this time of year... must have been close to 60° this afternoon.

    I posted a couple pics in the gallery here in the Jeep Owners Club, if anyone is interested.

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • 01r101r1 Member Posts: 280
    Tom, like the pics - great flex. Looks like you had fun out there!

    -Pete
  • wheelermanwheelerman Member Posts: 113
    hey tom we had a great time out at hollister hills today. we had beautiful weather here to. i had the top down again. so today we had some of the group from gottrail out at hollister hills i think 8 all together. but only six hit the trail.we all had fun and we all had a safe ride home. wish you could of been there.if you go to robs site theres some photos up. i'm part of gill's now but i think his site is a pain to use. did you guys know you could trun on the dome light by truning the head light nob all the way left?
  • lvcheflvchef Member Posts: 52
    It's almost unbelivable, but it rained all day!! A few of my friends who have Jeeps and 1 who has a Land Rover Defender 90 have called me and we are going MUDDIN!!! This is the 2nd time in over 1 year that we have mud to play in and it's gonna be a blast. I have been looking at TSJay pics and the mud looks wonderful.. I will keep you posted on the events of the day and our wheelin adventure!
  • mtngalmtngal Member Posts: 1,911
    Wish I had my Wrangler with me this weekend - instead we have the Taco. Oh well, I guess it will be a long trip home tomorrow. It was great to see the rain in Vegas!
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    Man, I guess a little mud is OK, but I avoid it whenever I can. It's just not real good for your Jeep to be in too much mud and water. There's always some mud at Turkey Bay, and you can't avoid ALL of the mud holes, but whenever there's a way around them, that's the way I go.

    Glad you had your chance to play in some. It is fun, but I sure wouldn't do too much of it.

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • twylietwylie Member Posts: 619
    I took some flak the last time I showed up for a trail ride because the inside of my wheel wells and the underside of my Jeep were "shiny" from a recent coat of silicone dressing. I found that a light coat of this stuff after the Jeep is clean makes it MUCH easier to clean up after a trip in any mud or slop. This is expecially true if you don't have time to clean up right away. With the silicone spray applied before any mud gets on there, everything just hoses off without leaving any residue. This also makes working on the jeep more pleasant since everything isn't caked over.

    Even mild offroading definitely means some extra time cleaning up and making sure everything is sound and maintained. However, for me it's definitley worth the extra effort. I've got some new scratches in my front windows I need to work on (Novus to the rescue), but it comes with the territory. Hope everyone had a nice, safe holiday weekend!

    -twylie
  • mtngalmtngal Member Posts: 1,911
    Did you have fun playing in the mud? I was surprised to see the dry lake bed near Primm had water in it. And I regretted not taking the Jeep this weekend - the drive home was as miserable as I thought it would be. It took an hour to go 7 miles - and I couldn't avoid it because the Taco is only 2WD and I remembered a couple of soft spots on the last dirt road I used to avoid Kramer's Corners...

    Next time I'll take the Jeep!
  • scmhockeyscmhockey Member Posts: 45
    My drivers side door (full doors) has a crack from the window for about two inches down the plastic interior. Just noticed it last night when changing the oil.

    Steve
  • jthurlowjthurlow Member Posts: 21
    I had a crack appear in the driver's side door (plastic panel). It was close to the door lock lever. My jeep is a '99 Sport, with full doors, and was then about two years into the three year warranty. The jeep dealer replaced the panel under warranty.

    I do not know what caused the cracking.

    J. Thurlow
  • shill3shill3 Member Posts: 124
    We also did a little off-roading this weekend, although we had to leave the top and doors on. The scenery was great, but the big news was that while I was out I saw my first mountain lion. We were in the car and since everyone was busy looking out the windows at the snow, I was the only one that saw her(?) dash out in front of the jeep. I am amazed at how many animals I have snuck up on while off-roading. I am also pretty impresed at the size of the cat. I would guess she was at least 65-80 lbs.
  • wheelermanwheelerman Member Posts: 113
    i took the doors and top off yesterday. man was it nice here in san jose ca. i took the jeep out to the beach. it was like 70 there. and my jeep got another dent on the way to the beach. well i have this thing for driving on cars. so on the way to the beach we found a car on the side of the road. i got all the way on the trunk. just when i got on the trunk i thought i saw a cop so i backed off and right in to a phone pole. i thought i just hit the bumper so we left to go to the beach and when i got there i could not open the tailgate to let the dog out. so i got out the rubber hammer and went to town on it . now it will open and close. and the hardtop still fits. i now have it on .
  • geepersgeepers Member Posts: 93
    Hah, I spent my formative years out in that Gawdforsaken country. Worked at two gas stations and three restaurants, or just about every place that was there then. At that time there was only a flashing red light and a 4 way stop. On the graveyard shift we used to hear screeching tires quite often and look up to see a car skidding through the intersection.

    Two families, the Darrs and Calliers owned that whole place. They have a lot of money now.

    115 degrees out and people used to ask me to check their radiator water, before there were reservoirs. Not for any amount of money.
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    I hope that was an abandoned or junk car? Tell me you don't drive up on cars that people are still actually using???

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • wheelermanwheelerman Member Posts: 113
    well i did'nt tell you guys that before i ran the car over i was at the bar and got in to a fight with some guy that said jeeps suck.so the guy left and went soon after him .down the raod we saw his car and that when it all whent down. sorry i had to do it for all us jeepers!!!
  • wheelermanwheelerman Member Posts: 113
    no tom the car was abandoned. just thought i would try and freek you out.
  • mtngalmtngal Member Posts: 1,911
    It hasn't changed all that much. Think there are 4 gas stations (one is a Pilot truck/car stop with a Subway in it) and it now has a traffic light. The light is better for normal days, but does nothing on holiday weekends. You probably know all about the various dirt roads in the area that avoid that intersection. We've found a couple of them thanks to AAA SoCal county maps. Any suggestions or recommendations?

    Every holiday weekend (just about) we head for my parents place in Vegas, and every time I say I won't go again without taking the day after off, so I don't have to deal with the traffic. Of course, I never do. It wasn't so bad when we always drove the Wrangler - it was a great excuse to explore the desert and get some 'wheeling in...
  • geepersgeepers Member Posts: 93
    Let me ramble just a bit. I've seen it on maps as Kramer Junction, Four Corners and Beecher's Corners. I used to navigate by dirt bike along the dirt road beside the railroad track. I suspect if you pulled off that trick you'd have a parade behind you. There are definitely other ways around both to the north and south but my memory would fail if I tried to guide you. Got a GPS? You could mark a route once and navigate even in the dark after that.


    For a little diversion some time, the old mining towns of Red Mountain, Randsburg and Johannesburg are maybe 20 miles or so to the north on 395. A few little places trying to eke out a living selling dodads but fun to nose around. I do believe there is off roading at Red Mountain too. Things have changed so, when I was there the only things off limits were mining claims defended by cranky gun toting recluses.


    And further up the road at Ridgecrest they run guided tours (you'd drive your own Jeep) out onto the Naval bombing range to view some petroglyphs in a nice little canyon.


    http://www.ridgecrest.ca.us/~matmus/pettoursF02.html


    The real capper would be a trip through Boron, my old haunt. A ghost town in the making. The film Erin Brokovich was shot there since Boron had just the right "run down" look. There is a quaint little museum there though. It's across from the earth mover on display that appears to be about 3 stories tall. One of the small ones. Of course that's 20 mule team borax country and the borax pit is a sight to behold with a really very nice little tour center. Domingo's mexican is supposed to actually be a good eatery.


    There are tons of places to off road over there. The Death Valley, Saline Valley area is a place I never really got to explore much in the back country. It is on my list.


    Forgive my rambling, I'm just trying to scare up some commerce for my buddies still in Boron.

  • scmhockeyscmhockey Member Posts: 45
    Mine is the same year, and its a Sport also. The crack, from your description, is in the exact same place. Too bad it happened after my warranty ran out. :(
  • mtngalmtngal Member Posts: 1,911
    The Wrangler has discovered the road along the railroad tracks (along with a road along the power lines further north, and the one quite a bit north that goes past Rainbow Basin and on to the 395). I've been surprised that more people don't try the railroad one, but then, there is a couple of soft spots that could grab the unwary and 2WD folks.

    I didn't realize that Erin Brokovitch was filmed in Boron - I figured they would have filmed it in Hinkley, which really does look pretty empty from the 58. I've thought about stopping in Boron (the sign for Domingo's is very notable), but somehow that homing instint is just too strong and I keep on driving. One of these days I'll take the time to really explore Death Valley and the desert.

    We don't have a GPS, though it is on the list of "toys" to get. I use the odometer and maps primarily, along with an old fashioned compass if I need orienting. A GPS would be much more fun!
  • 1evilduck1evilduck Member Posts: 11
    I could use some suggestions. I have a 95 wrangler. The thing runs like a champ, the problem is getting it started. It is fuel injected, but i have to put the gas pedal to the floor and crank it for about 30 seconds to get it to start. Like I said, once it starts, it runs great. I took it to a shop, the guy told me that I needed a new O2 sensor. he was gonna charge me $120.00 to do it. Needless to say, i went to the parts store, got the part for $40.00 and took 10 minutes out of my day to install it myself. It seeed to do the trick, but a day or 2 later, it was haveing the starting problems again. Any suggestions on what the problem might be? Do i HAVE to have the O2 sensor on, or is that just for emissions control? Or would taking it off even help?
    thanks
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    could it be a fuel pump problem? Could it be taking a while for the fuel pump to pressurize the fuel line enough for the injectors to work?

    Could it even be as simple as a clogged fuel filter, causing the fuel pump to work harder to get the line pressurized at start up?

    OK, I SAID I ain't a mechanic, so don't laugh! :)

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • wheelsdownwheelsdown Member Posts: 250
    I saw a thing in the paper once where turning the ignition on and off four or five times at about two second intervals before cranking helped a hard starting problem. Don't remember what the permanent fix was. This might keep some wear and tear off the starter until you get it figured out. Won't hurt to try.
  • twylietwylie Member Posts: 619
    is this only on cold starts or does it do it once warmed up as well?

    -twylie
  • div2div2 Member Posts: 2,580
    I wouldn't open loop(disconnect)the O2 sensor-that's NOT the problem. I'd suspect the fuel pressure regulator or a leaky injector.
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    Hey, Wrangler Buds, I have invited a couple guys from another forum to check us out here. They go by Sgt. Shellback and GregM on the other forum, so I guess those will be their usernames here too.

    Please give 'em a warm welcome if they show up here. I know ya will.

    It's SNOWING! Guess I might as well not get too excited. It will probably be one of our typical piddly little two inch snows. Wish we would get a GOOD one! Like a foot or two.

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • mtngalmtngal Member Posts: 1,911
    At least it is snowing there. Last weekend the snow level was about 1000-1500 feet above us, but now the weather has warmed up again. I don't think we will ever get winter! No excuse to drive the Wrangler.
  • twylietwylie Member Posts: 619
    uh oh... You're telling me we NEED an excuse to drive the Jeep. I thought FUN was a good enough reason. Hope you guys get some pretty snowfall!

    -twylie
  • joffficerjoffficer Member Posts: 169
    Hi, I'm a former Wrangler owner ('87, 4.2). I'm looking into a '95 S with a 2.5l engine, and 5sp. Are these engines any good in the jeep.... do they have enough power to live well past 100k miles. I don't plan on doing any serious off roading. I'm surprised to see the MPG's rated at 18.... is this true? I was getting that with my 4.2 2bbl engine!
  • shill3shill3 Member Posts: 124
    I'm with you mtngal. We have spent two weeks looking at the snow about 1800 feet above us. Nice to look at, but until the ski area opens up, no where to play.

    Winter without snow? Might as well warm up so we can get those tops off!
  • 1evilduck1evilduck Member Posts: 11
    twylie, to answer your question, the starting problem only happens during warm starts. Cold starts, it fires right up..no hesitation. i have had the injectors cleaned and changed the fuel filter. those don't seem to be the problems. thanks for the suggestions though. Hey jofficer, my 95 wrangler has the 2.5 liter 4 cyl engine, and the problem that I am trying to fix, (the starting problem), is the only problem that i have encountered, and i have 100,400 k on it...bought it at 45,000k!
  • mtngalmtngal Member Posts: 1,911
    My husband thinks I'm crazy for wanting to play in the snow so much, but I just love it. Guess it comes from growing up in the LA area, rather than northern Manitoba (where he is from).

    I do need an excuse to drive the Wrangler to work. When your commute is 75 miles (one way) and your other car gets 28-29 mpg, you drive the more economical car on a regular basis. Even if the seats are far more uncomfortable and it is a pain to drive (minimum power, harder to park, etc.).

    I think that the poor gas mileage for Wranglers has a more to do with the aerodynamics than anything else. I can make 2 round trips to work with the I6 under normal conditions. If it is windy I can't.
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