Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Toyota Camry Hybrid Engine Problems
I have had a great time with my TCH last 10 days, putting 550 miles on it. However, as you yesterday, the ICE is behaving completly different. It is no longer turning off with the frequency it used to. I am driving on the same roads. It is no turning off as I coast on long gently sloping downhills, as I coast to a stop light. It won't turn off at a traffic light until I have come to a full stop for 2 to 3 seconds. The battery is always charged up to point of only having one or two of the top 2 bars white.
What gives? Appreciate any ideas.
What gives? Appreciate any ideas.
Tagged:
0
Comments
You're not simply relying on the instant FE gage? There are times when I look at it that it reads 0 instead of
"60" or "EV" and the monitors don't show the ICE running.
Did you defeat the "Eco" setting on the climate control?
Hopefully someone knowledgable of the technical aspects can respond.
Hopefully someone knowledgable of the technical aspects can respond.
If the instantaneous mileage gauge shows "0", the ICE is running. I've noticed this happening often at complete stops, but it usually kills itself after a few seconds. Sometimes lightening up on the brake and letting the car creep forward a couple feet will expedite the ICE turning off. I learned that trick from driving my Honda Insight, which often does the same thing. The Insight will not kill the engine if the brakes have been pumped repeatedly in order to recreate sufficient vacuum for power braking, and for other various technical reasons (engine not warm, A/C not in ECO mode, battery low).
Perhaps the TCH has similar constraints.
I figured that has to be the case but the NAV screen shows the ICE off. It does bounce back down but it takes a few seconds.
I figured that has to be the case but the NAV screen shows the ICE off. It does bounce back down but it takes a few seconds.
AFAIK, the Nav's Energy screen doesn't indicate whether the ICE is running per se. Arrows leading away from it indicate that it's driving the wheels or charging the battery via the electric motor. I guess it can run without doing either.
If ICE is off, the FE should be at E, not zero. Beside, I can feel and the ICE turn off. As soon as it does, the FE shoots to E.
Essentially at cruising speeds when you are 'on the pedal' the rpm's are turning at about 1600. However, still while cruising, if you are not putting a load on the ICE it may go to 'idle' and turn only at about 1000 rpm's, which is where I find the FE chart to show 60+ mpg yet the ICE is still 'running'.
From ken's chart the ICE only 'shuts down' under 41 mph while. At 42 mph and above it's at least at idle.
Today, I experienced this again and noticed that there is a lag between the time the instant MPG shows 0 and the time the Nav display shows you the ICE is running. Today the ICE was running for the sole purpose of charging the battery. I was running the A/C with more power than usual and the battery was down to like 3 bars. At first the nav system showed nothing happening but since the 0 MPG lasted longer than usual, the Nav showed the ICE charging the battery.
I thnk it is safe to assume that if you see 0 MPG while stopped, that the ICE is actually running.
Also,when I pulled in to the garage at my work, I could not get the instant MPG display at infinite no matter how much I let off the accelerator. It seems like the TCH can get itself in this state on occasions. No idea what causes it. Some kind of software glitch??? I now have slightly over 400 miles on the car.
If your ICE doesn't kick off how is that affecting your FE?
My ICE runs with a mind of it's own although there are situations that yes I expect it to go off and it does. One would be with the AC off, green bars showing and my foot off the accelerator.
However on startups in the morning, I hear it kick on, I believe it's the ICE, and the FE indicator is on 0 which would indicate it is on, but my NAV Energy monitor still does not show it running for a few seconds or more. No big deal. The ICE will stay on a lot of times and give me the 60mpg FE indicator even with my foot off the gas and the battery charged (I assume this is what you may be seeing a lot). It will at times stay that way for quite a while, but if I accelerate or go up a hill it then drops back to the 30 to 40 range and shows on my monitor as driving the wheels.
While I see my drive in the EV mode a lot, I don't see it as much as I think I should as I get a lot of the 60 mpg FE rather than the EV mode.
When looking at the 'Consumption' screen ( the bar graph ) it seems that the ICE was 'turning off' quite often as the bar went to 'infinity'. In watching the 'Energy' screen the ICE didn't seem to shut off as often as I expected.
From PriusChat I found that while cruising/driving with little demand, such as cruising in flat terrain, the ICE normally never turns off above 41 mph it just goes to 'idle' at just under 1000 rpms. This idling just keeps the ICE spinning delivering some power to the wheels and possibly recharging the battery at times. Under 41 mph the ICE can actually turn off. In either situation an enormous amount of fuel is being conserved.
I wouldn't bee too concerned initially about whether the ICE is on or off. This iteration of the HSD is apparently very very accurate since the reported values seem to be consistenly right on ( or often above ) the EPA values. However the computer gets there it seems to be doing the job for which it's intended
Thanks, I started to say that, then erased it because I wasn't sure. I know that most of the time I see the 60mpg mark on the FE gage and not the EV mode, but I could not for sure say, thought I thought it, that I was under the 42 mph mark when I saw the EV mode.
That's why I was curious as to what their mpg rate was. If it's normal then I'm guessing they don't have a problem.
Coming in to work this morning I was actually able to accelerate from a stop light to just under 40 without ICE coming on and I wasn't necessarily trying to do so. That was a nice surprise. Obviously, I didn't step on the accelerator, but I didn't baby it either.
Not sure what state the computer was in, or how it got there, but at least there's an easy "reset"...
If the emissions system gets too cool, the engine will run to warm it back up. That's how PZEV is achieved.
Gas will actually be sacrificed for the sake of being clean. With the Classic Prius, that behavior was obvious. With the HSD models, engine shut off is much sooner... but not always immediately. Remember, higher MPG is not the the only goal.
JOHN
If the emissions system gets too cool, the engine will run to warm it back up. That's how PZEV is achieved.
Gas will actually be sacrificed for the sake of being clean. With the Classic Prius, that behavior was obvious. With the HSD models, engine shut off is much sooner... but not always immediately. Remember, higher MPG is not the the only goal.
The engine was fully warm, outside temp was in the 70s, although it was raining. If your theory is correct, I would have expected that shifting into PARK would have had no effect. Not saying you are not correct, as I myself earlier argued that engine "overhead" and other factors may keep the ICE running, but the persistence of it did seem strange to me.
It's a fact, straight from the Toyota executives. We had online access with them 6 years ago when the US rollout began. They provided all kinds of background info... like the housekeeping difference you noticed between Park & Drive.
JOHN
Ask him to get back to you with an answer... others may have the same situation and he may already have the answer.
Gampa
TCH fuel economy. I wonder if those that are in those really HOT areas of the country are finding that out too. Any TCH owners in the Texas area experiencing this.
I should add that the TCH electric AC does manage to cool the car even in the extreme heat except for that annoying rush of hot air when the AC kicks on in recirc mode to blow all the hot air around until it starts to cool.
Just my observation during this last heat wave.
WillyBill :P
I haven't noticed much of a hit on the MPG displayed (non-nav) on my short commutes. My tank average hasn't changed much, either. (I am using ECO, despite the heat.) Now, if I did two weeks at this temperature, maybe.
Here is what you do. I passed a fellow in a Prius out near El Centro CA. It was just over 100 degrees on my thermometer in the truck. He had is arm out the window to keep cool and save on gas by not using the AC. Now that is gungho!
I'm in Houston and I posted this same observance a couple of weeks ago when we had a "cool front" and I had the opportunity to turn the AC off on my drive to work in the morning. My MPG was over 40 those two days but has otherwise been a struggle to get 37-38. If I recall, somebody told me that I must have driven differently, that the absence of AC couldn't have that great of an effect.
Y'all can tell me all you want that AC doesn't negatively impact MPG but I won't believe it. And yes I do have it on ECO and the temp is set at 77.
I figure I'll make up the mileage come winter when everyone else is running the heater and all I need is the fan...
Please do not freak on it. It uses a complicated algorithm and does what it is supposed to do.
This is the 10th year for the HSD system and more than half a million HSD vehicles are on the road.
They perform like they are supposed to.....
Certainly not complaining. I literally have nothing to complain about with my TCH.. Glad I am one of the few who own one!.
Amazingly when I had to get on the main road with 55mph traffic and some lights I was able to maintain that average.
I can understand why some are averaging over 40 mpg, but the TCH certainly is geographically challenged for the top FE numbers. Even still, I'm in the rolling hills and mountains of WV and averaging 38.6 mpg over 7400 miles. I couldn't be happier (unless they would juice up the electric motor to 75hp)
Any help or advice? I hope I explained this where it can be understood. I guess the bottom line is that my mileage on these trips has suddenly declined 5 - 7 MPG with no known change in driving habits.
Thank you...CLFRun
I'm guessing their American Legal staff recommended that.
With the Hybrid it actually should be less of an issue as from what I understand is that most of the stopping is not done by the hydraulic braking system.
Does anyone have any thoughts on purchasing the extended service warranty? I am quoted 7 yrs or 75000 mi for about $1500. It overlaps the regular warranty.
Thanks
So basically in 75,000 miles I'll have:
15 _ tire rotations
5 _ alignments
10 _ oil changes
3 _ 15,000 mile services
2 _ 30,000 mile services for about $1547.
Why pay up front unless you're saving a lot of money. If you trade it before you use all of it will they refund a portion?
I have however seen posts here where some of the larger cities people are paying 50+ just for an oil change.
Most major tire chains will give you free tire rotations & balancing, even if you didn't buy the tires from them.
Oil changes are very competitive, and the national chains even give a AAA and AARP discount of about $5 per. But in my experience most dealerships will do them just as cheap, about $35 per change, w/5 quarts of standard oil. Usually whatever lubrication is needed is also included.
Wheel alignments, if needed more than every 30,000+ miles, well, stop driving into curbs! :P
The other so-called "Major" intervals are nothing more than inspections, as all the belts and timing mechanism should be good for 75,000 miles, minimum. Vehicles no longer require or need "tune-ups" or plugs before 100,000 miles.
Interesting, I had never found one that did the OEM's. Worth checking into.
But in my experience most dealerships will do them just as cheap, about $35 per change,
For that price my dealer includes the tire rotation
Wheel alignments, if needed more than every 30,000+ miles, well, stop driving into curbs!
I agree, however the only reason I've agreed to it is the dealer supplies "tires for life" if you do maintenance with them. Since the alignment is the only overkill in their plan, it's a bargan. Their oil changes are not any more than Jiffy Lube. It's just a little more inconvenient to take it in to the garage rather than just stopping by Jiffy Lube or the Pennzoil service.
My dealer's 15,000 mile inspection is $169 (I just looked it up) and that includes the alignment. The 30,000 mile inspection is less than $220. I believe both include an "in-cabin" filter, although I was not sure the hybrid had one.
Add Discount Tire, with stores in many states, Find Discount Tire to that list for free rotations, and flat repairs.
As for decreased mileage, it's getting colder and takes longer to warm up, so overall mileage is decreasing somewhat. Same is happening to me, though I've only lost about 1-2 mpg so far in Virginia. I was averaging 40.5 for the summer and now find it much harder to maintain 39.