Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Toyota Camry TSBs and Trouble Codes
I was grousing about the shifting in my new '05 XLE, and found many related discussions on various forums. Basically there's a "lag" then you want to accelerate (ie. from a standing stop) which some people rank from annoying to dangerous. In my case, it's more the annoyance factor.
Anyway, apparently there's a TSB on this, titled "ECM CALIBRATION: SHIFT FEELING ENHANCEMENT". In fact, Infotraxx.com lists two, TC005-05 and TC003-05. I'm not sure if they apply to different specific models or what. AllData.com, curiously, lists neither.
I'd like to review these TSBs to see if they're actually relevant, and arm myself with pertinent info so that when I visit my dealer, I can point them to exactly the right TSB covering the problem.
Can anybody here help me gather the required info, or perhaps a copy of the TSB(s)?
Thanks;
Brad.
Anyway, apparently there's a TSB on this, titled "ECM CALIBRATION: SHIFT FEELING ENHANCEMENT". In fact, Infotraxx.com lists two, TC005-05 and TC003-05. I'm not sure if they apply to different specific models or what. AllData.com, curiously, lists neither.
I'd like to review these TSBs to see if they're actually relevant, and arm myself with pertinent info so that when I visit my dealer, I can point them to exactly the right TSB covering the problem.
Can anybody here help me gather the required info, or perhaps a copy of the TSB(s)?
Thanks;
Brad.
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Mainly I want a lasting car...2002 Camry 4cyl LE, normal equipment, Green 47K, 12,995 asking price at local Toyota dealer, this vehicle is NOT certified and only carries a 30 day Powertrain warranty...I noticed even older camry's on used car lots with over 100K carried a 90 day wearranty?? Why are toyota dealers so cheap, my god they only clean up on every car they sell, Never had a Toyota, this Camry doesn't have a ding or dent, and thats usually the forst thing I notice. Bodywork of any kind. I did notice a few people complained about a Transmission problem, and squeaks and rattles especially on the 2002 camry? and a few engine failures? on 2002's but they were under the V6 heading...Is the V6 a carryover from the 2001 Camry? and the 4cyl is totally new? Thanks, Any info you can provide is great!
You should check out the Engine Hesitation forum here at Edmunds. It is primarily discussing the transmission lag/hesitation problem in Toyota and Lexus. Copies and links to the TSBs have been posted there.
"Engine Hesitation (All makes/models)"
if you get serious about the vehicle, have it inspected by a independant specializing in toyotas before committing to purchase. for a fee they'll look it over. ask.
for a nominal fee you can run a carfax report on the car.
you want to order some 17's, a spoiler, and some special rear lamps. why? the car, if in good condition and reasonable priced, why not keep it stock?
from what i've read, "certified" vehicles aren't generally any better than non-certified. you're paying a premium for a certified vehicle because it's got a warranty with it. that's my understanding. now if it's super clean, why aren't they offering it "certified"? i don't know. maybe because new ones aren't that much more?
what are similarly priced vehicles 2005 (i presume '06s are almost here) going for new?
like i said, the people over in "real-world trade in values" can give you better help on figuring a good price for the car.
I do not believe my '04 Camry, with the same engine but the older 4-speed automatic, does this. OTOH, with only 4 forward gears, just a press of the overdrive lockout button gets you down into third if you want engine braking on steep downgrades.
In the introduction, it lists the following "issues":
- downshift lag when accelerating at speeds from 10 to 20mph
- gear hunting when driving on/off accelerator pedal at 20-30mph
- response rate during heavy acceleration from a stop
While this TSB *may* not be applicable to what you're describing, and I'd pretty much expect any dealer to say something like that regardless, you gotta admit it sure looks related. :-)
Brad.
I was curious if the intake noise from the Atkinson cycle's reverse airflow, combustion chamber back into the intake manifold, in a 3.3L V6 might be at least part of the reason the RX400h doesn't make use of this fuel economy method.
Inadvertently found:
July, 8th, 1999 Final report by SRI, Sierra Research Inc, on "Alternative and Future Technologies for Reducing Greenhouse Gas Emissions from Road Vehicles"
One of the conclusions is that if the industry switched to 5-speed automatic transmissions, made use of ASL, Aggressive Shift Logic (quicker upshifts), early torque converter clutch lockup, and shift into neutral with brake application and engine at idle, a 9.8% improvement in fuel economy would result. Industry response was that "driveability" would suffer.
Welcome to 2006.
I'm trying to decide whether to just go in with my printed copy and say "do this please", or whether I should go in with a carefully worded complaint that'll make it easier for them to magically find the TSB themselves when they look for it. If they can't find it, then I can produce the copy I printed out "for their convenience".
I have <6000km on mine, and this is supposed to be a warranty item. I'm not rushing because I want to wait a teensy bit longer to see if anything else shakes out. After 20 years of Toyota ownership, I don't believe I've ever made a warranty claim before. :-)
Brad.
Then find a new dealer, quickly.
But here's another question: up here in Canada I'd expect them to refer to the same TSBs. Anyone know if they'd look up the Canadian version (refers to kph instead of mph presumably) via the same number? I'd also be curious as to whether the Canadian equivalent of the "Federal Emissions Warranty" applies in this case.
Mind you, if they tried to screw me on the warranty coverage, it sounds like it'd be worth paying for anyway.
The engine/transaxle ECU firmware is looking for a voltage of less than 0.8 volts as an indication of the accelerator pedal being fully released, at the idle position. The factory tolerance for an acceptable output at rest is 0.5 volts to 1.1 volts.
Looks like a design flaw.
Methinks there is a very BASIC misunderstanding going on about the engine/transaxle delay hesitation.
There is the STANDARD delay EVERYONE experiences at one time or another.
Toyota is very definitely, by their own admission, using the DBW, E-throttle system, to delay the onset of engine torque developement to "protect the drive train", give the transaxle downshift clutches time to fully and firmly seat. Not any different than any of us would do when downshifting a manual transmission, at least most of the time.
This "standard", normal delay, hesitation, is being noticed, noticeable, because prior to DBW our engines's torque began to rise the instant we depressed the accelerator. That's very likely also why the pre-04 RX series is enduring a serious number of premature transaxle failures. ASL= more frequent upshifts and downshifts, no DBW, NO delay = an inordinate level of clutch frictional surface wear.
Insofar as I can tell the new automatic transaxle shift logic recommended by Sierra Research in April of 1999 was adopted for the RX before my 2001 RX300 was built.
So, let's say that the "standard" delay is on the order of 200 to 500 milliseconds (2/10's to 1/2 a second). That's enough for everyone to take notice, especially those having previously, or still, driving older versions.
Now, lets assume that a very small number of accelerator pedal assemblies leave the factory with the "at rest", fully released, sensor output voltage on the high side of the acceptable tolerance, above 0.8 volts, as high as 1.1 volts.
First there is the fact that the factory manuals indicate that the low end of the accelerator pedal's "usable" range is with the sensor's output explicitly at 0.8 volts. It makes perfect sense that the designers would want some slack, tolerance, a "widow" (0.0xx to 0.8 volts) of voltage ranges that represent the idle, fully released, position.
But now we have some pedals in use by customers wherein the sensor never falls below 0.8005 volts.
Why would that matter?
Because the transaxle shift control design would not likely upshift if the pedal were fully released. Fully released would be assumed to mean "I wish to coastdown to a lower speed" and upshifting would not be conducsive to that.
On the other hand what if you just ease off the accelerator pedal slightly? The logic would be such that the system would assume "I want to just begin cruising along at about this speed", and an upshift would then be very appropriate.
And now.....
What if a part of the engine/transaxle ECU firmware, due to those flawed tolerances, just simply couldn't detect the difference between a partial accelerator pedal release and a full release.
Definitely would have a much greater propensity for upshifting, right?
And what other aspects might result from the firmware being "confused" (why is the driver on the gas and brakes at the same time?) in this manner?
Maybe a "watch-dog" timer master firmware reset?
In effect a engine/transaxle ECU firmware "reboot".
How many seconds might that take?
Thanks for the update.
these are the same guys that didn't know there was a tsb out, and when I got them to look it up they tried to charge me for it because they thought it was an enhancement, not a fix.
the other shop in town has played parts roulette with me (replace this part, see if that gets the light to go off).
do you have something from toyota that I can take to them?
The manual indicates that the acceptable VPA output voltage range at rest must be between 0.5 volts and 1.1 volts. IMMHO the problem is that if it happens to be above the 0.8 volt level the engine/transaxle ECU will not be able to easily discern the difference between fully released and partial but just slight application.
I have little doubt that Toyota gets it right.
By that I mean if you disconnect the battery and then reconnect it after being certain the accelerator pedal is FULLY released the engine/transaxle ECU will at that time RECORD the VPA (accelerator position sensor) voltage that indicates a fully released accelerator pedal.
That stored voltage parameter should not change over time and multiple drive cycles unless the ECU has "reason" to suspect the sensor voltages have drifted from the original ones recorded.
That might happen, for instance, if you often brake with your left foot, even ever so slightly, while also have a very light touch on the accelerator pedal. That might result in the ECU "thinking" that the accelerator pedal sensor outout voltages have drifted over time and the initially recorded IDLE voltage needs to be adjusted to fit the new accelerator "idle" position.
Or suppose you often get into the car and unconsciously apply a light pressure to the gas pedal just as you switch on the ignition?
So, here is my suggestion.
Disconnect and reconnect the battery being sure the accelerator pedal is fully released.
Now, each and every time you get into the driver's seat be sure the very first thing you do, consistently, is put your right foot flat onto the carpet. Now put the key in the ignition and start the car with your foot still flat on the carpet.
Before shifting into any gear use your right foot to apply the brake. Do not move your foot to the accelerator pedal until the transaxle is "settled" into the selected gear.
Try that procedure, consistently, for a week or more of drive cycles and see if the hesitations returns.
Years of driving a standard has me in the habit of stepping on the brake (right foot) when I start the car. No foot on the gas.
Unless I'm in a panic stop. There have been a few times where I've gone for the phantom clutch and brake at the same time.
But seriously, does anyone use their brake and gas in their automatics at the same time? If so, they must have idling issues right? And, are many applying gas when starting? You're not supposed to...;)
Then last week I realized that the one time the firmware designers could likely rely on the gas pedal being at idle, and thereby reliably "learn" the gas pedal idle position, was during the sequence of firmly applying the brake in order to have the electric solenoid release the shifter so it can be moved out of park.
So the issue is NOT what foot you use for braking otherwise, but specific to the exact time you are shifting out of park.
After realizing the above I started paying more attention to my own driving methods. Low and behold it turned out that I had a habit of using my left foot on the brake each time I shifted out of park. For some reason I had developed the habit of applying the brake with my left foot in this instance circumstance.
What was I doing with my right foot...?
In the case of preparing to back out of my garage, and as it turns out any time I am backing up, my right foot is always on the accelerator pedal with my left foot applying or poised over the brake.
Probably lucky that I don't have DBW.
"open or short in ne,g circuit.
distributor,open or short in sta"
What in the hell does that mean?
Thanks
Can anyone provide me with the TSB?
is a site with that info. CLick on your engine type, then on the next screen click on Service Bul. and recalls, on the next screen click on Elect. devices and computers, proms and sensors link. On the next page, there are a few TSB's regarding the o2 sensors(also known as air?fuel sensors). All info is there.
Anybody else have this issue?
:mad:
Mine drives fine but there is a TSB ST005-01, dated 11/16/01, which covers all 2002-2007 models.
It covers the diagnosis of whether it is tires or alignment and procedures to fix. Seems pretty straight forward analysis.
p1135
engine rpm= 665
P1135 isn't a code. You probably meant P0135, which is also related to the heated oxygen sensor bank 1 sensor 1.
I got hold of the new Toyota TSB for the 3rd to 4th gear "flare" however it's only a partial. Can someone who has full privileges to the Tundra web site d/l the newest TSB #TC002-07 with the May 17th 2007 date and email it to me or post it on this site? See below for the partial as taken from the club Lexus Forum:
Anyone else had this kind of "questioning"? (or at least the same level of paranoia?.....or is it just Performance Toyota of St. Catharines Ontario that has me spooked?)
Be careful out there, be VERY careful...!!