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Toyota Avalon Engine Questions

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Comments

  • tfeltontfelton Member Posts: 80
    As I mentioned in a previous post last week I would go to my Toyota dealer today and ask about the replacement Pipe Oil No. 2 all metal line. The Toyota Service Mgr. said he has seen a few leaking rubber lines through the years. I have scheduled to have the line replaced and it will be done tomorrow since they had to order the part. The cost is $39.22 for the part and $126.00 for labor.
  • popsavalonpopsavalon Member Posts: 231
    That is a very reasonable price for the "fix", the price of the part and about 2 hrs. labor, which it will take to install the new metal line. Your service manager obviously realizes what he he needs to do to keep you as a satisfied Toyota owner.

    It is an upgrade that is definitely worth the peace of mind it gives. I was becoming very reluctant to go "out of town" until I got the metal line.
  • kenb757kenb757 Member Posts: 149
    Why wouldn't this repair be covered under the powertrain warranty?
  • popsavalonpopsavalon Member Posts: 231
    It probably should be, but Toyota has not published a TSB or done anything to acknowledge that a non-leaking rubber/metal hose can fail without warning and drain most of the oil out of the engine.

    At the present, the all metal replacement is merely an "upgrade" at the owner's expense if there is no leak from the existing hose. If there is a leak under warranty, either minor or catastropic, the dealer will replace the defective part with another rubber hose unless you purchase the all metal upgrade for him to install.

    This will get to be (is) a real can of worms for the 2GR-FE (V-6) engines as folks drive them past the warranty mileage and experience oil line failures.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Sounds like if someone's really worried they could just slip a larger diameter rubber hose over the existing one, to eliminate the possibility of chafing. That's probably what I'd do if I owned this model. Then, if Toyota decides to replace the line for free, I'd take it in.
  • cmontanocmontano Member Posts: 3
    It's funny that you would ask that question. The powertrain warranty is 5 years/60,000 miles my car has 61,800 so at the end of the day I called the corporate office and threw a fit, the dealership called me today and said they would fix it free of charge. Toyota needs to admit they made a crappy part and recall it.
  • stoneybrokestoneybroke Member Posts: 83
    Popped the hood on my 08 Touring today, and found that the VVTi line is all metal. My car was manufactured in April, 2008.
  • popsavalonpopsavalon Member Posts: 231
    Your ideas are proven fixes, but have no practical application to this issue. You really need to look under the hood of an Avalon and realize that you cannot even see but about 1" of the subject rubber hose above a foam lined timing cover. Even touching it is very difficult. The line then snakes down under the engine block and the lower connection is barely visible when the vehicle is on an overhead rack. Adding a larger dia. hose for protection would be impossible, and even inspecting the existing line for "chafing" would require some disassembly. This is why the problem is almost impossible to diagnose until oil drips on the ground.
  • mhassanmhassan Member Posts: 1
    Couple of days ago the check engine with vsc and vscoff light come on my Toyota Avalon 2000 xls. Mileage: 143k. Observed little vibration(sometimes). Recently I did minor tuning & change the water pump due to overheating. I checked it to a local machanic, found three codes. P1130, P1133 & P1135. What are the meanings of these? Is it costly to repair? Should I go to dealer. You know they are very expensive. Please help me.

    Thanks
  • mylasttoyota1mylasttoyota1 Member Posts: 2
    My 2006 Avalon dumped all its oil in the road due to a hole in the rubber segment of the VVTi line which is metal-rubber-metal. I've read a lot here about the all-metal part 15772-31030 which is a Lexus part that some have used in place of the metal-rubber part called for in the Avalon TSB EG064-05. The Toyota service manager said that a Toyota engineer told him that the rubber containing part is for flexibility on the Avalon and other models because these engines vibrate more than the Lexus which is built to be more stable. Does anyone know of a successful installation of the all-metal part in the Avalon and for what time duration? Both parts arrive at the dealer in a couple days and I need to make a decision. Thanks.
  • jrwyattjrwyatt Member Posts: 6
    Hello, My 2006 with 45,000 miles did the same thing in July while on Vacation. I had it taken on a flat bed tow truck to local dealer in Arkansas. I told them to replace the rubber line with the metal and I would pay the extra cost. But when I went to get it the had replaced with the new fix. The service manager said which was a heavier rubber line. What makes me angry is that they are aware of the the problem but will not recall and fix, instead they wait until the line breaks or leaks, and or pump all of the oil out of them. Well if under warranty your ok,but if out of warranty you maybe paying for a engine rebuild. Back to your question the 2009 Avalons have the fix, a heavier rubber line. I would call Toyota and complain as I did why are they waiting until these lines leak before they fix them? :mad: .
  • popsavalonpopsavalon Member Posts: 231
    Mylast, the metal line is used on RAV-4s that have the 2GR-FE V-6 engine, so I think your dealer is blowing smoke about the vibration issue. Toyota continued to use the rubber/metal line because they don't want to have a recall and the expense of replacing all the VVTi lines that are out there. I'm pretty sure that late 2008 Avalons and up came with the all metal lines.

    I ordered the 15772-31030 all metal line for my 2007 Avalon and the dealer replaced it in about a couple of hours. I saw no reason to continue to drive with a rubber/metal line that was subject to failure at any time. The bad part, as you experienced, is that the failure may dump all the engine oil while you are driving down the road. Toyota has yet to acknowledge that this failure mode might damage an engine.

    I think anyone driving a 2GR-FE V-6 engine would be foolish not to replace the rubber/metal VVTi line before it fails.
  • smudgy2smudgy2 Member Posts: 5
    I have followed the advice of popsavalon and had the oil tube replaced at my cost ( 3 hrs labor and $352) Simply google "avalon oil leak" and all kinds of thingss pop up including a u tube of the leak with engine running. On a site called "Carcomplaints.com" there are 50 reports of this problem. Occuring anywhere from 27,000 to over 100,000 miles, it can happen at any time, anywhere. Be sure to request part #15772-31030, the all metal part. The dealers are fully aware of this problem and their technicans are trained to change out the part and are in fact getting more and more experience in doing so. Toyota still refuses to do a recall and there are I estimate a couple hundred thousand 2GR-FE engines in all kinds of Toyota vehicles that could have this serious leak. For your own peace of mind, change out this part.
  • bengeebengee Member Posts: 3
    Here is an article from our local paper.....wonder what to do if this runaway aspect woudl happen to the Avalon? I assume just turning off the car? ....thakns
    http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20091019/BUSINESS/910191027
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yep, just shut the car off but don't pull the key out (that could lock the steering). You'll lose your power steering and after a few pumps, your power brakes (there is a reservoir for the vacuum) but you can safely guide the car to the side of the road with the hard steering and your car will in fact stop without power brakes--it will just require a lot of foot pressure. Not a great solution, but the safest one.

    Something everyone should in fact practice in an empty parking lot.
  • 06avalonratl06avalonratl Member Posts: 2
    My 2006 did the same thing. Fortunately it was in front of my house, and the dealer had it picked up and repaired with the metal line, about 6,000 miles ago, and it's OK so far.
  • bengeebengee Member Posts: 3
    Thanks to you both!!! Much appreciated..
  • paul3637paul3637 Member Posts: 45
    Fast forward ten years: it appears that in the year 2020 it will be as embarrasing to drive a Camry or Avalon as it is to drive a 2010 Buick today. Looks like only Ford is getting it right since their repair record is exceeding Honda & Toyota (Honda Accord's $250 rear brake pad replacemnt every 15,000 miles problem is the number one issue on carcomplaints.com) and Ford is actually turning a billion dollar profit.

    It is almost as if Toyota is following the Oldsmobile road map towards self destruction. Toyota's treatment of this rubber versus metal oil line issue is abysmal. It is as if it wasn't bad enough that they initially coupled the space age fuel efficient 2GR-FE V6 jetlike engine to a bad transmission in the 07 model year Camry -causing Consumer Reports to withdraw it from the "recommended" list - that they went on a suicide mission to create a real scandal with the rubber oil line.

    The number of affected vehicles is over 1.5 to 2 million. Toyota just did a recall which they call a "Limited Service Bulletin" that applies only to 05 and 06 Avalons.and 06 Rav4's. It replaces one rubber hose with another. It states in pertinent part:

    "To: All Toyota Dealer Principals, Service Managers, Parts Managers
    Subject: Limited Service Campaign (LSC) – 90K
    2005 – 2006 Avalon and 2006 RAV4 Vehicles Equipped with the V6 (2GR-FE) Engine - VVT-I Oil Hose Replacement
    Toyota will initiate a Limited Service Campaign to replace the VVT-i oil hose in certain 2005 – 2006 model year Avalon and 2006 model year RAV4 vehicles with a 2GR-FE engine.

    This Limited Service Campaign will be available at no charge to the vehicle owners until March 31, 2013. All terms of the affected vehicle’s Toyota Basic Warranty will remain intact regardless of whether or not the customer takes advantage of the Limited Service Campaign.

    There are approximately 147,000 Avalon (2005 through 2006 model year), and 26,000 RAV4 (2006 model year) involved in the U.S.

    Since this applies all to NorthAmerican built 2GR-FE engines built pre-April 2008 and some Japan built prior to 2007, it's pretty easy to get past the million vehicle marker.

    Note: Not a single ES350 on the Internet has oil line failure because they are all built in Japan and have the metal pipe.

    I was going to wait a few months, but so I can quit obsessing about this, I am taking my 09 LE V6 in to Molle Toyota and pay for the $275 fix. Olathe Toyota told me it would void the warranty but Molle says "we always use the metal pipe." It takes two hours of labor because, unlike the Avalon, they have to remove the power steering pump to do the fix.

    My car is 19 months old. Pop the trunk and it still has new car smell and contains the following:

    1) First aid kit
    2) Premium Jumper Cables
    and
    3) a twelve pack.

    No - the 12pak is not beer. It's a twelve bottle case of Pennzoil 5w30 oil in case the oil line ruptures.

    Sorry for the rant. I didn't mind changing out mismatched Bridgestone 215/60/16 tires and wheels at 8500 miles for 17" 215/55/17 Avalon LTD wheels and Michelin tires at a cost of $1300 so I shouldn't mind doing this $275 fix.
  • popsavalonpopsavalon Member Posts: 231
    I think it is absolutely appalling that we have to deal with Toyota dealers who make statements like "installing the metal VVTi line will void the warranty", and from a previous post ,"the metal line was made for Lexus, it's a more stable engine."

    As Paul3637 posts, Toyota is still dancing around a failure mode that could affect over a million 2GR-FE engines. Replacing one rubber hose with another is just a cheaper way out, and probably moves the next failure out 50000 miles or so, well past any warranty period.
  • paul3637paul3637 Member Posts: 45
    ToneDeaf-Out of touch-oblivious-incompetent-downright corrupt.

    No, we are not talking about congress or wall street exectives paying billion dollar bonus - It's Toytota management at work. I have seen several posts that predict fatalities will eventually occur over the oil line issue when engine seizes and driver loses control or gets stranded in the mountains out of cell phone range - and I agree.

    It took the breaking news headline about the 4 fatalities in the now famous ES350 crash San Diego before the 3.4 million Toyota floormat recall scandal broke.

    I accidentally ran into this post when I looked up ES350 car complaints to confirm what the Lexus dealer told me: No ES350 oil line leaks ever because the Japan built Lexus always used the metal pipe..

    Look at this on the subject of floormats where a guy made a big deal about getting his $500 deductible back ........... and Toyota ignored him.

    http://www.carcomplaints.com/Lexus/ES350/2007/accessories-interior/throttle_gets- - _stuck_under_floor_mat.shtml

    2008
    Apr 14
    ES350 ES 3.2L V6
    Automatic transmission
    22,200 miles
    While my wife was backing out of our garage, the throttle got stuck under the floor mat. The car traveled across the street at full throttle and end up on a 5 foot snow bank. Other than a sore back and neck the next morning, she had no other injuries.
    She did not require medical help. She was extremely lucky that no other vehicle was coming by at the time nor was anyone walking by. Only the snow bank prevented her from hitting a garage that is directly across the street.
    I had received a recall notice from Lexus in the fall of 2007 addressing a floor mat to throttle problem. In discussing this with my Lexus dealer, I was told the recall did not apply to my vehicle because I did not have all weather floor mats. I did not give it another though until my wife had this accident.

    After the accident I stopped at the Lexus dealer to show them how easy it was for the throttle to get stuck under the floor mat.I had removed the floor mat and put it in the trunk. The Service Manager immediately noticed that the mat I had in hand should have been on the passenger side and not on the drivers side. This information stunned me because I had never removed the floor mats. This left two possibilities; either the car was delivered new to me that way or while in Myrtle Beach I had the car cleaned at a car wash and they switched the mats. In either case it doesn't matter.
    This accident should not have happened. Floor mats should not be interchangeable. I showed the Sheriff that investigated the accident as well as the tow truck driver and the insurance adjuster how easy it was for the throttle and none of them picked up on the fact that the mats had been reversed.

    The Lexus Owners Manual only talks about the retainer clips being properly attached and they were as indicated in the
    sheriff's report. The Owners Manual does not mention the potential danger of the accelerator becoming stuck if the floor mat are inadvertently installed on the wrong side. THE FLOOR MATS SHOULD BE DESIGNED SO IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO ATTACH THE FLOOR CLIPS TO THE MATS IF THEY ARE NOT INSTALLED ON THE RIGHT SIDE.
    I have written to Lexus in Torrance, California twice and included the Sheriffs report, Insurance Adjusters report and the repair cost from the body shop in an attempt to recover my $500 deductible. My insurance payed the remaining repair cost. But Lexus has not acknowledged ether of my registered letters.
    This may be my last Lexus if I don't get satisfaction or at least an acknowledgment of the problem from them.
  • mylasttoyota1mylasttoyota1 Member Posts: 2
    Here's an update on what I did...I replaced the VVTi line with the standard part, not the all- metal part because the dealer said the all metal part would not be warranted on the Avalon. Why doesn't the dealer recall it? - because 75% of customers buy the extended warranty through 100K so they are covered until then and the dealer is willing to roll the dice on having to replace the engine. Anyone looking for a great looking, silver 2006 Avalon XLS with a new VTTi line covered through 100K? No dings, dents or scratches. BTW, also fixed on this Avalon were: Steering Column Noise TSB#ST002-06 and ECM Calibration Enhancement to Shifting Performance & Smoothness TSB#EG029-07. Ex.cond. except subject to losing all oil at unpredictable intervals. Make offer:)
  • popsavalonpopsavalon Member Posts: 231
    Mylast, are you saying that your dealer said the metal line would void the warranty, or just that he would not install it for free under warranty?

    Most dealers have taken the position that they will not replace the VVTi line with all metal unless the customer pays for it,( "customer upgrade"). The Avalon warranty stays intact.

    If your dealer is saying that the metal line voids the warranty, I would find a new dealer. That establishment is being less than honest.
  • paul3637paul3637 Member Posts: 45
    popsavalon is correct. The Toyota V6 Oil Line Scandal is discussed in the website ToyotaV6OilLineScandal at the following link:

    :http://sites.google.com/site/toyotav6oillinescandal/

    The metal line was originally a Lexus part and can safely be used without voiding the warranty.

    :
  • popsavalonpopsavalon Member Posts: 231
    Paul3637, thanks for the link information. I think folks that are aware of this problem should work really hard to see that ALL Toyota V6 owners know about the site.

    It is really hard to understand all the horror stories being posted about this problem. It seems that almost no one is clean, from dealers all the way to Toyota Corporate.

    Hopefully this problem will continue to gain exposure, and Toyota will be forced, maybe by a class action lawsuit, to acknowledge and fix the problem permanently for their customers.
  • paul3637paul3637 Member Posts: 45
    Here is the link. It is the antithesis of the USA recall.

    http://rav4world.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20014&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&star- t=405&sid=1c1a8338372af02a525c88e237e29d93

    Post #415
  • popsavalonpopsavalon Member Posts: 231
    The new web site :http://sites.google.com/site/toyotav6oillinescandal/ should be visited by all 2005-2008 Avalon owners. It has most of the pertinent information related to the major VVTi oil line failures that are being experienced by owners of Toyota V6 2GR-FE engines.

    Worst case oil line failure can be sudden and catastrophic, resulting in loss of engine oil and almost certain engine damage if vehicle owners attempt further vehicle operation.

    The site also addresses failure responses by dealers and Toyota USA, which have been less that stellar.
  • popsavalonpopsavalon Member Posts: 231
    Just in case everyone has forgotten, there are still roughly 1.5 million 2GR-FE V-6 engines out there with VVTi oil lines that can rupture with no warning and dump all the engine oil on the ground, or highway. Toyota USA has never officially acknowledged this problem and dealers have been wildly inconsistant in dealing with it.

    There is a proven fix for this problem, I'm not so sure we are there yet on the "unintended acceleration" issue..
  • jrwyattjrwyatt Member Posts: 6
    Would somebody please explain to me how this has been a issue since 2008 with still no fix. I think it is computer related and they have not figured out a fix without having to replace the whole system at $600-800 and have just started to design a new brain to fix the problem they new they have had for several years just like the oil line. They denied it until 2009 and all they did was put a heavier rubber line on instead of the $168.00 fix for the metal line you could buy and have installed. :(
  • rossmoynerossmoyne Member Posts: 2
    Thursday my wife filled the tank in our 03 Avalon and within 200 yards the car was dead. The engine turned over fine, just wouldn't fire. Had is towed to a reputable shop, they can start it running by priming it, but it quites and blows lots of smoke. They think there is diesel in the gas. Wife says there is no way she filled it with diesel. Have not heard of any other problems from this gas station.
    I'm at a loss. Told the shop to drain the tank and try some known good stuff.
    Any ideas?
  • finfin Member Posts: 594
    edited March 2010
    Here's some free thoughts to get you started... Diesel gas pump nozzles will not fit in gas openings...no diesel is in the tank. To be sure just siphon out a hose full and look at it, smell it or burn some carefully. Also, put some in a glass container and see if it separates. Anything "clear" is probably water.

    How do you "prime" a car with fuel injection? If you mean hook it up to an outside fuel feed source, ok... it should run fine if the problem is the fuel in the tank and all else is well... if not, the problem is with the engine or the electronics.

    Hope this helps, others may have more ideas..... ;)
  • rossmoynerossmoyne Member Posts: 2
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    By all means SAVE a gas sample when they drain the tank (if in fact, the problem is fuel---it may not be). By saving a sample, you can possibly make the station pay for something.

    Diesel fuel stinks, so the garage should be able to spot that in 10 seconds.

    I'm thinking this is an electronics problem, just on the face of it.
  • squeakerssqueakers Member Posts: 1
    My 2003 Avalon has no power sometimes after first taking off. When I back out of my driveway in the morning (after allowing it to warm) I will have the gas pedal pushed to the floor and the car will not have enough power to get out of the driveway. I will then let it coast back in the driveway and turn off everything (heat or ac, radio, lights, etc) and give it a little gas and back out fine. When I turn my heat/ac or anything else on, it loses power again. Once I get on the highway, it will do just fine with everything on...what could be the problem. Thanks for any info!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    First off, we'd need to read some trouble codes, to see if anything's stored in there.

    At this point, we can only guess blindly---sounds like you might have an alternator issue.
  • mikec30mikec30 Member Posts: 1
    Hey- Have you ever gotten to the bottom of this?

    I'm having the same trouble. 1998 Avalon. Runs really rough only hot, intermittently. Starts to happen after a slow down going from high speed to lower speeds. Once it starts it normally keep happening until the car is shut off for 10 - 15 minutes. Sometimes I can take a 200 mile trip with no trouble, then later on it happens randomly on 5 or 30 mile trips. If it happens it always goes away after a 15 minute off period.

    Thanks for any feedback.
  • finfin Member Posts: 594
    Wild guesses: Thermostat sticking; water passages or hoses clogged from trash circulating in the system; low coolant level: electrical sensor problems.... others may have more ideas. Ever clean the cooling system? Hope you find it... :)
  • teezeddteezedd Member Posts: 8
    edited April 2013
    I can't find your step by step on cleaning the IAC Also looking for proper method to check MAF sensor status. I need to figure out the wires on the harness to test.
    I cleaned the MAF but the P0171 returns after a few starts
  • rlr111rlr111 Member Posts: 1
    If anyone can provide a copy of the Canadian Limited Service Campaign notice for the VVT-i oil hose problem it would be much appreciated.

    I just had to replace my engine after 35,000 miles, because of this issue and Toyota Canada will not stand behind their product claiming that there was no such "Limited Service Campaign".

    Many thanks
  • mashoudmashoud Member Posts: 8
    As you might know, if you import a vehicle from the U.S. into Canada, you require a letter from Toyota Canada if it is a Toyota stating that there are no outstanding recall repairs against the vehicle. Of course, this becomes one huge issue especially because the dealerships do not want you to import vehicles for less cost from the U.S. and thus create huge obstacles to provide such a letter.
    Other high end manufacturers like Mercedes, BMW, Volvo deliberately make life difficult by asking huge sums of money pretending it to be some big deal and safety could be compromised.
    In any case, after fighting with them numerous times, I discovered, Dep't of Transport will accept a printout of a cars history which clearly outlines what had been a recall and if it was fixed. What I do now if I am bringing a car from the U.S., I simply ask a dealership in the U.S. if they could give me the printout of the cars history. Toyota has everything on every vehicle and they make a point of checking that regardless of where you are...Mexico, U.S.A., Canada. It is a way for them to justify repairs if the vehicle has changed hands etc..

    So, what I am saying is this. Try to go to a Toyota dealership and charm a service manager to print you the history of the car...they have it available online and ask if there were any recalls or any outstanding recalls. You might find the answer you are looking for.
    Also, I would Google recalls on your Model Toyota and you might find it there since it is a mandatory issue if it involves safety.

    I hope this helps??
  • paul3637paul3637 Member Posts: 45
    Yes. I have copies.... go to this link for copies of both

    https://sites.google.com/site/toyotav6oillinescandal/

    Within that site are links to copies of both the Canadian version and the US version AND all the newspaper articles and press releases ....... this affected 1.6 million recalled vehicles.

    Toyota Canada Recall(s): Shortly after the first Toyota USA campaign letters went out, Toyota Canada sent out a letter to affected vehicle owners dated November, 2009 describing a "customer satisfaction campaign" http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN019717220100301 " that was almost the polar opposite of the U.S. version as to what vehicles were covered. It covered all affected models and years: 05-09 Avalon, Rav4, Camry, Highlander, & Siennas (but like its USA counterpart not 100% of VIN numbers are covered), It does explain the possibility of engine damage and it does create a sense of urgency telling the recipients that upon receipt of this letter, contact any authorized Toyota dealer and make an appointment - the campaign is a limited time offer. Copies of the letter at http://rav4world.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20014&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&star- t=405&sid=cddcab9df7b3dff5f107868b6a187506 post # 415 and http://rav4world.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=23527&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&star- t=15 post #17. The letter does not describe the replacement part, but it appears Toyota Canada is using the same cheap fix as Toyota USA http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2981747&posted=1#post2981747 post #97.."So there you have it folks, the great Toyota fix, it's effectively useless long term, worth just enough to pacify the buyers and get you over the warranty period to a point where they have no accountability! Brilliant! Absolutely brilliant!!! So glad I did mine and replaced it with the complete steel pipe! best 150 bucks I have ever spent!" Yikes - update December 3: http://rav4world.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20014&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&star- t=420 post #423 Canadian dealers refusing to install the all metal oil line. Update 2/14/10: Dated February, 2010, Toyota sent out the IDENTICAL recall letter it did last November but to more vehicles so that VIN #'s that were missed in the original mailing are now put on notice.

    *******
    I have copies of everything you might need if the links don't work. Email me at toyotadriver2009@live.com (it's listed in the website).

    I am Paul3637 on all toyota forums. I suggest you going toyotanation which has lots of Canadian members, too. Post your problem in the gen6 camry forum.
  • WILLWILL Member Posts: 2
    fndlyfmrflyr said:

    Tranny fluid: Some of today's transmission fluids slowly change color with use from red to dark brown. This is normal and not a sign of a problem Therefore, the color of the transmission fluid not being red is no longer an absolute indicator fluid needs changing. However, at 90k miles, it was a good idea to change the fluid. NOTE: My Toyota service manual says change the fluid if it smells burnt or is black.

    As long as the proper transmission fluid was used and the transmission is shifting normally the cause for your mpg loss is probably elsewhere. You didn't mention changing the engine air filter.

    Agree with fin.

  • WILLWILL Member Posts: 2
    Youtube has some outstanding videos re; tranny fluids; ie; Amsoil. Automatic transmissions are probably the most complex, tolerance and lubricant sensitive components in any vehicle. These fluids are specifically engineered to meet specific vehicle models,engineering tolerances, parts and material composition and intended use. Transmission fluids age and break down over time and often very quickly from factors such as: overheating, moisture, leaks, contamination, overloading, deferred maintenance intervals and poor driving habits can and will destroy your transmission and warranties. A bargain fluid change only replaces a few pints often with wrong type or low grade fluids that are called universal, THERE IS NO SUCH FLUID! There are several distinct types of trans fluids. What is required by one manufacturer's transmission WILL destroy and void the warranty of another manufacturer. Labeling on bottles is tricky; some states strictly regulate compliance and strict labeling;actually go into stores, purchase fluids off the shelf for testing and go after sub standard makers and those making false claims. However, most states are short sighted do not test or proactively enforce quality standards that are laid out to protect consumers, reduce emissions, improve mileage and increase highway safety. Educate yourself and don't rely on only your mechanics word, or ads making false claims designed to reassure and lure you in. Ask to see the shop's product brands, specs labels, bottles, old parts, replacement parts etc., every time! Don't underestimate the importance of quality; MADE IN THE USA and common sense. Honestly, do you really think you can manufacture and package a specialized fluid, make some broad unsubstantiated claims about its quality, ship it around the world, undercut USA made product pricing, turn a profit for a foreign maker, and live up to MADE IN THE USA high standards? If you believe that fuzzy math is even remotely possible, you are fooling yourself! You get what you pay for or else you never quit paying! Purchase fluids youself per your owners manual and request their use. PAY ATTENTION, ASK QUESTIONS, EXPECT ANSWERS. Draining a few pints, changing the filter and adding new fluid to mix with the old that is left inside the transmission will not improve that old fluid quality or uphold your warranty and is a waste. A complete and proper flush forces out all of the old fluid under pressure and may average around $150. Its worth every penny to protect your warranty and potentially save thousands! Its easy to comprehend. Spend 30 minutes to educate yourself before you waste $30 or cost yourself $3000.








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