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Comments
Do I have to take the sway bar links off also? It seems that the the upper end of the link would be hard to remove unless the wheel was off. So if no wheel removal, are you saying to just unbolt the lower end of the link in order to remove sway bar?
Also if I do have to remove the links, do they have bushings or washers or anything else that may need changing?
If so I'll have to get them ahead of time from the dealer.
thanks again, i really appreciate it.
If you don't want to mess around, I would think that the touring model is the way to go. I probably spent close to 2-3K modifying the Avalon, the way I wanted it. TokicoHPshocks, Energy Suspension PU bushings for the sway bars and control arms and obviously a new alignment, tax, and the hassle factor. The shocks I could not do myself, nor the control arms. The ride and handling are definitely unique, that is for sure. It doesn't ride like my BMW with the sports package, but I had a choice today and took the Avalon. I just wanted to put her in drive and go. Nothing more comfortable.
abfisch
You may want to check resale values. People don't usually consider that. Also depends if you like to do things in stages to see the result. That's me. I like to make something the way I want it, and I can take it as far as I like. Like AB says, we now have something unique. I'm quite satisfied. If you want to float like a butterfly - or a Buick, stock struts are probably OK. Maybe just do bushings. I like more control, albeit with a bit stiffer ride, so did bushings and KYB GR2 struts. Come to think of it, I haven't installed my rear bushings yet. The fronts made a noticeable difference. Check bar size before ordering. Mine, on our 03 were an odd size. 17mm, and I could only get 16mm bushings for the rear, so I need to resize the holes.
"abfisch" had noted a few times that all was needed was to tighten the 3 retaining bolts down. This sounded reasonable but in my case they were already as tight as they could be and were already flush.
I experimented and built the area up using some towels and foam rubber and replaced the rear seat and this took 80% of the noise away. Although this was good, I wanted a more permanent and gratifing fix to this few year old problem that I had spent considerable money and time on to replace all the possible offending parts. I had Monroe Sensa-traks struts and mounts placed since the Toyota dealership wanted twice the amount. It may be that it takes a true Toyota OEM strut and mount that may fit somewhat different and be "tuned" for the way the car was set-up but I had my repairs done piecemeal and this thought is in retrospect.
I just did get a can of "Great Stuff" for cracks and gaps--a spray foam that expands and binds and squirted this on top of the mounts in hopes this would create pressure and a seal and reduce the noise and bind-up that little bit of movement from the upper aspect. So far this worked like a charm. I replaced and tried every other bit of repair and this less than $5 fix seems to be the best. Hope this helps someone else.
The spray foam sounds like a messy but fair idea. Usually the noise is caused by motion, something that "Great Stuff" would be able to suppress but not eliminate. Whatever works though. Good enough.
abfisch
abfisch
The seat portion is snapped-in place. Just pull up on one end near the front portion of it and it will come loose--do this again for the other side. There is a stronger snap-in for the mid-portion--again use steady force in the front rear and this will come out. Don't worry--you will not break anything (my same thoughts initially). The fasteners to the seat are very sturdy and I have taken it out several times now without difficulty.
After you get this out, the rear portion is bolted down by 4 bolts that secure a U-shaped metal hinge to the rear chassis. There are two in the lower center which are the larger ones and two on the lower aspect at the very ends. A hex wrench is useful for the 2 center ones and either that or just the right type of wrench is needed for the outer two.
Now be on the lookout that the seatbelt fasteners are attached to the two most-centered bolts and the seat-belts from the rear deck also cross over the rear cushion backrest but they are easily moved aside.
The rear back is held securely by three rear hinges that fit in a socket-like assembly but doesn't snap in place.
I found it best as it is awkard to remove it--I stand where the rear seat that was just removed--position myself centrally, squat down (thanks to the amble rear passenger seat and leg room) and put both hands underneath it and lift upards. Best to have two people do it from each side of course but if you don't have a helper, one can do it just barely!!
You can either slide it forward to get to the rear strut mount upper assembly or if you want to remove it entirely, then move the seatbelts out of the way and tweak it out (bit cumbersome but after a few times it gets to be old hat.
The putting back the two cushions is essentially the reverse--just be sure that the three rear fasteners go up and over and into the 3 slots so it fits flush with the rear. Also, when putting the seat portion back in, you have to thread the three seatbelt fasteners--one is a double through the appropriate holes in the cushion.
You cannot break anything or do any harm. Many car parts such as carpet fasteners in the trunk or headlamps or door panels have these plastic snap-like material that after a car gets some age on it, they may become brittle and caution and easy-going is the key. But the snaps for the seat are heavy-duty--it is only the seat cushion itself that snaps from three points and yes the first time you have to give a little heave-ho. The rear cushion just fastens into a holder and then bolts in from the front area.
And by the way, my spray of Great Stuff so far has solved my problem of the upper strut mount assembly having too much play and annoying noises over rough pavement. My $5 can fix (only used probably 50 cents worth) has done a much better job than the $700 I spent replacing the strut mounts, struts and anti-sway bar bushings. It took me some repairs, going to several places, etc. but I essentially finally figured it out myself and have a better knowledge of it than most mechanics who offered their recommendations.
Now granted the first one had replaced the strut mount and that was essentially the problem the whole time. Initially it really made a metal-to-metal noise over pot-holes, manholes, etc. But I don't know why it didn't fix it 100%. Unless the Toyota strut mounts are somehow different that other manufacturers. My car has 170,000 miles on it and I am sure the springs are soft and the rear doesn't sit up as high as it did when new (since my Mom has the same exact car and year but with 30,000 miles on it and hers sits up higher)--but all the mechanics noted that this shouldn't have anything to do with it--and normally springs do pretty good and rarely need replacing so unless it is broken or something, they will not recommend replacing it. Perhaps ideally I need to replace those too or perhaps get a new Avalon!!!
But it is running good and there is no noise now so things are good for now. I bought it new in 1996 with the hopes of getting 200,000 miles on it or more and so far still trying to achieve that goal.
abfisch
That's right they are roomier, more powerful and get better fuel economy.
I loved my '03 XL but the '06 XLS I own now beats it in every way with the exception of the front seats. The '03s were a bit larger.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
You know I feel just the opposite. I guess that is why they changed it. I have an 02 with a bench seat. Like seating in a living room. I sat in the new one. Not only did the console hit my knees when my foot was on the gas with the seat all the way back, but I hit my head getting out of the car on the roof line. And then the trunk is much smaller, and then although the stats are greater, it cannot tow over 1000lbs. Soooo. I walked away from it, going, numbers can be deceiving, but this new one does not do it for me. And for the 30K, I found something that was alot more fun, from a fun standpoint. If that is what you mean by "beat it". The new one is a very nice, comfortable cruising car, people on this thread still complain time to time about the suspension. But suspension issues usually arise with the age and mileage of the vehicles, not with someone that is I guess lucky enough to change vehicles every three years.
abfisch
I assume that was the trade off for the reclining rear seats - which I would never use. Sounds like a sales gimmick to me. They may work fine, but when I own a car, I drive it or ride in the front. If someone wants to ride along, they can damn well sit upright and suffer. There, I said it and I'm glad. Seriously, does anyone use this feature? How? For Grannie?
The bottom line here is that no car has it all. Not even the "next generation" of the same car has it better than it was in every area. Another ex: The '07 Limited seats are truly inferior to the '03 XL seats in comfort. Yes, the 07's are heated and cooled, but the '03 was more comfortable as a daily driver.
Overall, if a better family sedan (for us) were out there, we would have it. For now, Avalon wins. Been that way since '98. This is our third one. Enjoy the Avy.....
My avalon did not come with a mist feature for the wipers. I know they make it and probably does now. The double unlock feature on the German cars, that roll down all the windows at the same time while the car is in the sun is priceless to me. I was wondering if the new Avalon has this feature.
abfisch
This feature is available on some Lexus models. And if you read the Edmunds.com Lexus forums you see reports of "openings" happening by themselves for no obvious reason. That's not good. Never heard anyone say this in person, but... maybe. It's wireless signal, so, as you say, more electric gizmos....
Enjoy your Avy... great cars..
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
Example: An item may use an identical circuit board, but a portion of it may not be populated with components for the extra function, and even though the basic board is the same, the assembled boards would carry different part numbers. In other cases, it may just be a missing jumper that could be replaced by an owner to enable that function.
Guessing maybe the nut on the top of the strut may have come loose and not wanting it to file out the hole if it was not replaceable, I removed the rear seat tonight (great Toyota engineering to require two different sized sockets for the rear seat removal)to see if I could tighten it and found the strut shaft protruding up through the mount after having pospped the plastic cap off! It is totally loose on top although the nut is still on fine. I can't tell for sure in the dark but it looks line the mount has busted leaving a loose collar under the nut.
Looks like I'll have to go to the dealer and buy a couple of mounts or it will be another week when they discover the strut wasn't the main issue. From previous posts it sounds like the dealers don't stock struts... do they generally stock the mounts since this seems to be a chronic lapse in Toyota quality? (In case you can't tell, I've never been a Toyota fan due to a total lack of decent styling, except maybe for the trucks and the older Lexus is300's, and this has done nothing to make me see that their quality ought to override that.) :confuse:
I have about, 70K on my TokicoHP's and I can tell they are just starting to wear a little, but nothing near replacment.
abfisch
I haven't found a Tokico application catalog online, nor have I found any online Tokico seller that lists struts that are indicated to fit the 05-07 Avalon.
Has anyone actually done KYB or Tokico strut upgrades on the 05-07 Avalon? If so I'd appreciate knowing where you got the struts and the part numbers. Thanks.
In my '06 company car the same thing just happened over the last 1000 miles, It does happen quickly and progresses rapidly.
I'd like to take the same route with my '06 XL but initial checks indicate that there isn't an aftermarket shock available.
Anybody aware of any?
You may want to try Energy Poly sway bar bushings. They improved my 03 quite a bit before I did the new struts. Very inexpensive too. See earlier suspension posts. My old ones only had 50k on them and weren't that bad. May even try to sell them.
Wait for a more tech member, such as *abfisch*, to give you a more detailed answer. But at least you know what the sway bar is and what it does. You will likely not hurt the car driving slowly but higher speeds may make it hard to control on some roads. It needs to be fixed. Hope this helps.
After the accident, I put new Michelin Primacy tires on it and had it aligned. Then I noticed that it pulled to the left on the highway. The body shop, that is very reputable, checked the frame and it was off by 6 mm in the back. Not much. They realigned it again and everything was straight.
My Avalon still pulls to the left. I'm not sure what to do and am thinking about getting rid of it. I hate to because I just put new brakes, tires, timing belt...the whole enchalada thinking this car would be good for another 250K...
Any advice?
Try this, in order: First, check all air pressure. Next, rotate tires diagonally. This will resolve tire defect causes. Make sure wheels are torqued properly at rotation as mag wheels will warp. After driving, if it still pulls, check the brake rotor temp with a heat sensor. Dragging calipers can cause pulling.
If it still pulls to one side, it's the alignment. It did not do it before the work, now it does. Find settings that eliminate the pull. Had to do this on my '03 XL, same basic car you have. It can be done, my tire guy did it. Hope this helps. Good luck.
So, 10 years later, my Avalon, which drove like JELLO ON WHEELS since day 1, is driving the same as always. It was always fine with me as I bought it to drive to a job down an interstate. These days, I drive to work in the city and with no problems. It's a mushy car, and always was.
I took my Avalon to CarX because of issues with my lifetime warranty replacement brakes (of course they couldn't hear the problem I described but that will be dealt with).
They pointed out that my '98 Toyota Avalon XL with 72K miles needed new struts and mentioned the wear and tear risks of not fixing them. The CarX manager quoted a price of $1,200 to $1,500 to replace my struts!
Needless to say, I declined.
This has been a FANTASTIC car with no problems, although I did replace brake rotors, etc. once at CarX.
This car was mushy out of the lot. I presume it had original struts/shocks that were poorly designed, but I see no reason to replace them given current mileage of under 7k per year.
However, if you are experiencing no control issues, no cupping or feathering of your tires, and no excessive bouncing/bottoming out, then I guess you're good to go for a while longer.
If you back up to Avalon forums, and search on abfisch and 55396, you will see all the details of what an upgrade will do for you. There are cheaper ways to do it too. We are very satisfied and the end result is that we will keep a car we like much longer, making the outlay worth it. Trading ain't cheap. Neither is the ongoing extra expense of license, insurance, depreciation etc. on a newer vehicle. Your local salvage yard may have a cheap labor rate too. Then only drive it straight to an alignment shop if they can't do it. Mine is going there for a wheel bearing replacement soon. I will buy the part online at half price.
PA
Labor to removal, disassemble, reassemble and replace all four struts would be about 5 hours.
Parts will vary but something like $65--$80 per shock/strut sounds about right.
So depending on the labor rate in your area, This could be a $600---$800 job.
There are cheaper struts out there, but you get what you pay for. If the car has to stagger on for 6 more months, then maybe you could buy some cheap strut from a chain store and get by with that---probably better than having totally blown struts, as your car seems to have now.
However, keep in mind that it takes as much labor to install a cheap strut as a decent one. KYB is not the best of the best but they are very good from the price.
Does anyone have any practical experience about what it's really like to remove the front bushings?
Also, does anyone have a web site that actually has the part numbers for the '03 SPECIFIC shocks/struts?
Thanks
Use Google Product Search. You can then sort by lowest price but may have to jump pages ahead (12?) as related small stuff will sort first. Try Camry struts to expand the selection. I believe they are the same. Try ebay also.
I did not change the strut mounts on mine and didn't realize you could do just bearings (rubber donuts?). Now I have some clunking on rough stuff. I'm wondering if I can correct this by reolacing the strut bearing or if new mounts are required. I would think bearings would do it. I would guess the springs would need to be compressed to change either. Has anyone done this or have details? ABFISCH, where are you?
Can I just replace the bushings with stock bushings? Is it normal for the bushing retainers clamped on the sway bar could have slipped as i see one of the retainers about 1 inch from the bushing?
Thanks for your help,
Rex K