Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Toyota Avalon Suspension Questions
I bought a 99 Avalon a year ago from the Dealer. I purchased the extended warranty.
Within 1 month, I had the front struts and mounts replaced, complementary, due to excessive noise. However, the noises are still there. In the back too, but they say they can't hear that... must be because the front rattle too loud.
Clunking and rattling are the primary sounds. There is also a lot of motion in the steering wheel and accellerator pedal when you hit certain types of bumps and pot-holes.
While I always try to avoid hitting bumps, I can't help to believe that when I go over lane reflectors, the wheels shouldn't sound and feel like they are going to fall off. Coming from a '82 Celica and a 8'5 Supra with 200,000 miles with original suspensions and nothing close as far as sounds and feelings, I feel cheated by latest technology, or lack thereof.
Anyone else have this problem and know a remedy? Aftermarket suspension kits, anything?
Within 1 month, I had the front struts and mounts replaced, complementary, due to excessive noise. However, the noises are still there. In the back too, but they say they can't hear that... must be because the front rattle too loud.
Clunking and rattling are the primary sounds. There is also a lot of motion in the steering wheel and accellerator pedal when you hit certain types of bumps and pot-holes.
While I always try to avoid hitting bumps, I can't help to believe that when I go over lane reflectors, the wheels shouldn't sound and feel like they are going to fall off. Coming from a '82 Celica and a 8'5 Supra with 200,000 miles with original suspensions and nothing close as far as sounds and feelings, I feel cheated by latest technology, or lack thereof.
Anyone else have this problem and know a remedy? Aftermarket suspension kits, anything?
Tagged:
0
Comments
I think I can help you somewhat with your suspension problems. It is going to cost you a little, but the car will ride vastly improved. I did some of this to a 2002 Avalon, cause the shocks are extremely weak, and the changes are precious.
1. Buy 4 Tokico HD Gas Shocks for your vehicle year. If you live in a winter environment, you can undercoat them, but be careful not to get undercoating on the piston part or it will damage the seals. You can buy them over the internet.
2. Buy ALL NEW Toyota, bushings, dust covers, and insulators that have to do with the strut housing. Email a guy called Larry at his Toyota dealership at <larry@brandsport.com> Let him know I sent you.
3. Find a competent, wheel and alignment place near your home. Have them drive your Avalon first with the old stuts.
4. Then have them put the new struts and bushing on and align the car again.
Good luck. Let me know how things turn out.
Thanks for double checking that fuel filter install. That is what I was told that if you take the filler cap off, let it sit awhile, than the pressure decreases and it will leak but not much. Now, where is the DARN thing???? I could not find it?? Do you access it from below with the car on the lift or from above??? Driver's side or passenger??
The PU busings for the sway bars, both front and rear took longer than I wanted. The install for the rear were easy, as access to them was easy. Since the parts are really for a 97-99 Avalon,(there is no listed part for 2000-present), they are tight around the sway bar but not problems. The front install was a different matter. The curved fire wall makes accessing the rear screw difficult, especially any person that has large hands. Anyone doing this needs a straight rachet wrench. I did not have one, and it made getting to the bolts in front very tedious. I could only turn the darn thing a quarter turn at a time, and the threads were so close, I was ready to be committed by the time I got them snug. The maual states 14lbs of torque, not very much. The ride does not change that dramitically, but it is a little more harsh, not real difference in sway charactaristics, but a difference in cut in response from lane to lane. I am going to have someone professional do the CAB cause they will have to realign it anyway, and I don't want to get frustrated more.
I saw the New Acura TL. Very nice, 10K less than a BMW 5 series. But...this is not an inexpensive car, as premium fuel must be used, and those dual exhausts are expensive when replacement time comes. Nevertheless, with XM radio and the typical simple but refined, multi link double wishbone suspension, it is more performance than an Avalon, albeit more expensive.
Let me know when you trick the steering and how difficult it is. I am at the peak of making this car better. It is just about maintenance now.
Thanks for all your good help. I always enjoy this forum and get much more from all your technical know how than all the dealerships combined.
abfisch
One more question before I begin this project. Just want to make sure I am replacing the correct bushing in the correct place. In looking at the Rear Suspension Components, the suspension arm #1 and #2 attach to the frame at the suspensio member and at the wheel at the rear axle carrier.
It is the ones to the suspension member( the ones in the middle of the chassis) that I am replacing in the rear, not the ones near the rear axle carrier and strut. Correct????
Just want to make sure before I start taking everything apart.
Thanks again for the tech info. Love this forum.
Looked at a 5 series yesterday. Thought of you. Terribly complicated car. I like the old ones better. Let me know when you get around to driving the Acura TL with the 6M tranny.
abfisch
I attempted to change the Rear Control Arm bushing last week, but only got as far as getting the car up on the lift. It seems, at least from 2000 and on, the bolts that go through the suspension member throught the suspension arms go from the front of the vehicle to the back. You cannot take them off, they are too long and not enough space without either dropping the gas tank or the control arm and the suspension member.
For me that would have been an 8 hour job, and just did not seem worth it for a two year old car. The PU bushing for the sway bars, front and rear, were alot easier and the Tokico HP shocks give this car more than enough sporty hanlding now.
Unless you have some suggestions, to make this install easier, I am going to hold on to the bushing and wait until I have to change the exhaust, align the car again, and then take it all down.
If anyone has any technical info. on this install, please let me know, but this is NOT for the average golfer. You need a couple of people to take down that transverse cross member some.
Thanks. Nomad56???
abfisch
Thanks for the response. On the net, a gentleman removed the same bushings out of his MR2. He described the same set up (Toyota set up) as I have. It leads me to believe that is the way they set up their suspension systems with good reason. The bolts cannot come out even if the nuts come off. Very safe but painful to work on.
Thanks for the effort. I can wait on these until major repairs at 200K need to be made. Perhaps they will have other bushing parts by this time anyway.
abfisch
I just bought a 98 Avalon and I am getting a thumping sound from the front passenger side when I go over bumps. The car has 25700 miles on it.
What needs to be done? The car is not under warranty.
Thanks.
Joe
Are you sure a 98 Avalon actually has ONLY 26K on it?????? That is less than 5K per year. That being said, either bring it to a qualified wheel and alignment place(frame and axle) or start from the outside in. Check your tire pressure, then links and bushings, and last shocks. Usually if the tires are OK and are not dry rotted, the bushings are intact and not rotted or lose, it is the shocks. Replace with TokicoHP's struts. My opinion is to stay away from Toyota's OEM struts.
It would be prudent to have a place that takes the underside of the car apart on a regular basis check it out.
abfisch
-nomad56-
I've replaced strut mounts front and rear. I still have regular noise that
sounds roughly like a length of 2x4 hopping around in the trunk. It's
affected by temperature and road conditions to some extent. This one area
ruins the impression of an otherwise great car. After two sessions of
strut mount replacement, I hesitate to spend tons more money on a 7 year old
car in HOPES of finding the right parts or processes that takes care of the
problem. Has anyone found sure cure for this?
------------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------
#2 of 3 Thunking... by nomad56 Jun 26, 2004 (4:26 pm)
It is your rear sway bar bushings. They are worn and the noise is coming from the sway bar. My buddy and I spent a few hours hunting this problem down, after it perplexed us. ...and several other Avy drivers. We subsequently fixed it for several people that had spent money on struts and tower mounts, etc @ the dealer. If you want to be sure, simply remove the sway bar and tets drive the car. The "thunk" will be gone! -nomad56-
-------------------------------------------------
I hope you can find this and respond with follow up information nomad56. I must have posted the original question in the wrong place and the thread has been closed. I've checked with my local Toyota dealer parts desk. They have 2 rubber bushings that connect "somewhere around the center of the swaybar" (to the body I think) Are you saying that replacing these two $14 bushings fixed the problem for you?
If that is how the Haynes manual describes it, go to another manaul as it sounds confusing unless you can acutally see it. To my knowledge, and I have done this, the sway bar goes horizontally across the car. There is one front and one rear. The center bushing and brackets attach the sway bar to the chassis and the outer links attach the bar somewhere to the suspension, in the Avalon's case, to the ball joint area or somewhere around the bottom of the strut area. I cannot remember exactly right now. But...you do not have to take the bar out or away. All you have to do is loosen the brackets, take off the rubber pieces, put on new pieces with plenty of grease so they don't squeak and tighten them back up. It is relatively simple. The torque settings for the bolts are very low, I cannot remember exactly although it is in the manual, but I remember them being really low, so three finger tight is all I remember doing.
Nomad can guide you through the rest.
abfisch
Rear stabilizer bushing retainers: 14 ft-lb (19 N-m)
These are the retainers that go around the bar - not at the ends.
Rear stabilizer bar links: 47 ft-lb (64 N-m)
Thanks for taking the time to look these up or recount them in your head for the forum. Very nice for you to do this. I am between bases in an Army move, and my manuals are in storage. Nothing like having the exact spefications. I am all for that.
Thanks again for your contributions.
"Feed the forum"
abfisch
Does anyone have experience with replacement struts, and while I would think isolators are a good idea (against noise), is that a dealer-only part? Anyone riding without them?
DO NOT RIDE WITHOUT THEM, UNLESS YOU LIKE TO HEAR METAL TO METAL SOUNDS. Call Energy Suspension and see if they have PU bushing replacements and/or order the part from Toyota and replace when you do the struts. You will need a realignment, 4 wheel also, I suppose you know. If you want to "tinker", then order the F and R sway bar bushings and lower control arm bushing from Energy Suspension as well. Big difference in sway in cornering while changing the ride/vibration very little.
abfisch
I just bought a 2006 Toyota Avalon and picked up some 20" wheels and wider tires for it. I want to drop it a few inches but can't seem to find a dealer that has a suspension kit for it. Does anyone know who I can call or a website I can get on to order?
Also, does anyone know of a place to order a mesh grill for it?
Thanks
Jay Lapitan
With all do respect, I think you choose the wrong car for alot of modifications, especially in the "sports mode". Putting those size tires on this car, would seem to make the ride uncomfortable if not unbearable for most. This jumps the wheel size 3" more, which would bring your sidewall serires to 40 or 35. Again, the suspension is not going to respond to those kind of tires and will set you up for an unpleasant ride or worse. I am sure your new Avalon is very nice. Hopefully you got the Touring edition if you wanted it a little more sporty. Although, there are no complete tuning kits that I know about, if you wait a couple of years, I am sure there will be aftermarket improvements like there are in the older model(mine). Look at the Tokico and KYB site for strut/dampers and Energy Suspension site for changing the rubber bushing in your suspension. Those alone will change your ride considerably without makiing it too harsh. Hopefully you don't have to drive your new Avalon in the snow.
Good luck.
abfisch
I was in the same situation in 02, with limited choices. Since I am not an electronics type of person, I took (with experience) the lesser, XL, and got it to the vehicle I wanted in the first place, but could or did not want to offer.
You would have to check with aftermarket manufacuturers and see. But I am 85% sure, that the VSC and traction control, are electronically modulated and are not intergral to the dampers themselves, although there may be a place where the sensors for the VSC/TC attach to. Good aftermarkets should provide this attachment point to the outer core of the damper housing.
That being said, again, check with the companies or Toyota itself, if you can get a straight answer. That being said again, stay away from high pressure monotube shocks for this application and use premium twin tube low pressure shocks(TokicoHP(Blue) and KYB come to mind). Koni, is coming out with an advanced strut, called the Koni FSD, but there is not application for the Toyota Solara/Camry/Avalon (all the same number unit) yet.
I have TokicoHP's on my 02 for the past 65K and they have performed flawlessly with an excellent compromise between handling and comfort. To give you an idea, a best friend who is a car collector, stated it is much much better but he would like it still a little bit more firmer!!! Since he is a sports car enthsiast, I am relatively sure it is correct for a daily driver now.
Good luck
abfisch
The OEM shocks are inferior. Get either TokicoHP(Blues) or KYB GR2's. These are premium Low pressure twin tube gas shocks. Much better in comfort and performance than stock without harshness.
Shocks should be under or about $400 and installation and alignment should be another $300 to $400. Total $800. Get new strut mounts from Toyota too.
Good luck
abfisch
Dealer tells me a service notice indicates front springs must be replaced when such sounds are heard. Yikes!
Can anyone tell me, absent add'l information forthcoming from Toyota, what are the mechanical issues present here- design flaw, assembly issues in Kentucky, etc? May I expect future additional problems? Is this just a spring issue, or a McPhearson strut issue?
Given Toyota's reputation for building sound autos, especially Avalons, this comes as quite as surprise, especially when the service people, who suddenly have become less polite, can't or won't tell me why front suspension springs cause such scraping sounds.
Would appreciate any additional insight readers of this forum may provide.........
Thanks.
abfisch
The rubbing sound is a constant that is a bit louder when I turn, and the rubbing sound started, ever so slightly, over 1 year ago, at about 9000 miles.
So why is the local dealership telling me that the to respond to the TSB, the springs will have to be replaced to eliminate the rubbing sound.
What's rubbing?
abfisch
Just for the heck of it, I called the local Toyota dealership here in Manasassas, and the service guy sounded downright surprised that I would even THINK of replacing struts, even though I've got 171,000 miles on my '95 Avalon. He says they do so so infrequently that they don't even carry struts in their inventory!
The DEALER wants, however, $2000 just for the strut job, should I insist or actually need it done!
I need some good advice, guys. I AM taking the car into the dealership for a $45 look-see at the struts first... What are your thoughts, please ??
drive axles on a 94 Lexus ES300 a couple of years ago.Best
price for struts and mounts was on Ebay $180 for 4 KYB
momo max.
Did research and found the rule of thumb being shocks last
about 40k and struts 80k,the Lexus rode good but rode much
better with the new struts,(replaced at 100k).
My advice, and there is some opinion here, is buy either TokicoHP or KYB GR2 struts. You should be able to get them for about $400 or so. It should be another $300 in labor and you are probably going to next the new strut tower hardware(rubber) from Toyota plus a 4 wheel alignment. The shocks mentioned above are LOW PRESSURE gas twin tube design, much different than the OEM standard on the car. You should notice a very very big difference, in handling ,cornering, braking, and a slight decrease, not a lot in ride comfort without any more floating at highway speeds.
For the brakes, front rotors premium $80 each and pads no more than $80. Labor costs vary and the rust needs to come off if you live in snow country, most importantly.
abfisch
My preliminary look-see at prices shows the following"
(4) strut boots @ 14.20 each, ............$56.80
(2) front struts @ $94.02 each, .........$188.04
(2) rear struts @ $71.46 each,...........$142.92
(2) front strut mounts @ $67.90 each, ...$135.80
(2) rear strut mounts @ $44.65 each, ....$89.30
Total for strut equipment,..... $556.06
This was for all KYB equipment, and should I expect to need ALL of this, considering the 172,000 miles on my '95 Avalon ? With a quoted $125 four-wheel alignment and your estimate of an additional $300-ish labor charge, I'm now at $981.06....Does this seem reasonable so far? Phil
At the same time, you could, with that high mileage, replace the sway bar bushings, an easy thing to do yourself, but you could have them do that as well. They are not very expensive, and OEM are made of rubber and deteriorate after 70K or so. Either the rubber OEM, or polyurethane from Energy Suspension with an generous amount of grease(blue marine) will give you handling that you would not imagine possible in that car. On the other side, the polyurethane bushing do transmit a slight amount of harshness to the cabin, but deform less under stress and sway and are not suspectible to dry rot like rubber OEM. They make control arm bushings as well but I did not find them to be as notable versus the sway arm bushings. There you will find a whole lot of difference.
abfisch
here's a link for 4 KYB GR-2 (2 front, 2 rear) for only $218. S&H is about $30
The vehicle had 60 profile tires on it when I bought it, the OEMs were 65s. With the 60s on it, the car would readily bottom out on a parking lot speed bump at anything more than walking speed. The 65 profile yokohamas I have put on since have somewhat aleviated this problem.
I have always been told that springs are what determine ride height and shocks only dampen bounce and reduce wheel hop. So from the speed bump issue I describe, do I need springs? THe struts are original as far as I know, so they are at least broken in if not useless. (170K miles).
I think I am willing to spend 1K on the car if it gets me a stiffer ride in the turns, but not sure if adding another $600 for springs is reasonable at this odo reading.
What are your thoughts?
the spring and the metal part,the strut mounts are bearings
that wear out with the strut.check your air pressure in
your tires.