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Toyota Avalon 2005+ Transmission Questions
The Lexus 300 and 330 both have had throttle and transmission hesitations problems and complaints for the past three or four years.
Do these problems also exsist on the 05 Avalon?
Do they exsist on the Camry?
Do these problems also exsist on the 05 Avalon?
Do they exsist on the Camry?
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Comments
Don't know about Camry. Again, read all posts, ask a question when you have one.
This problem has exsisted for 2 or 3 years...how come they can't fix it?
How difficult can this be to correct?
Don’t they care about their customers?
So, when you relax the pressure on the gas pedal the system says "ahah, he's through accelerating and now just wants to cruise along at this road speed". Or if you happen to fully release the gas pedal the ECU decides that what you really want is to coastdown to a lower speed and shifts into a higher gear to allow the engine to turn at idle RPM or close thereby.
Both of these actions would undoubtedly contribute to better fuel economy and lower emissions. Possibly making the difference between the vehicle being rated as conforming to ULEV emissions standards or not.
But there was a fly in the ointment.
Transaxles began to fail prematurely due to the need to quickly downshift if the driver suddenly changed he/her mind and now wanted to accelerate. The transaxle has just upshifted, and now the transaxle must (immediately) downshift with the hydraulic pressure having been depleted and the engine now at ~idle.
With the engine RPM and torque now climbing rapidly and the transaxle downshift clutches not fully and firmly seated there will be an inordinate level of clutch wear.
What to do??
Go back to not upshifting and the EPA and/or CARB fines might be enormous.
And the PR....??
Oh, if we convert these vehicles to DBW, e-throttle, then we can delay the onset of engine torque until those clutches have time to fully and firmly seat.
Problem solved!
Just as Toyota has now stated publically, the engine hesitation is a design "feature" to protect the drivetrain.
Methinks you got something "fualty" in right foot, bad. No punch accelerator. Driving smooth like buttah. Ahhh, change name from Avalonbad to Avalonice.
ROBERTU
I was thinking of test driving and possibly buying a 06 Avalon. However, after hearing the stories on this web site, I think I’ll look elsewhere.
I believe this problem has existed on the Lexus and Avalon for quite some time. How come Toyota has not been able to resolve the problem?
Have people attempted to get satisfaction through the lemon law? If so, how did they make out?
Even though the new Avalon does have it's share of problems and quirks, I don't think any are that serious that they should be considered deal-breakers.
In my opinion, many of these issues have been caused by over-computerization of the drivetrain controls, but that is true of almost every new car today. While it is possible that Toyota will resolve these with future firmware upgrades in a TSB, I'm not holding my breath. Toyota (dealers & Corporation) don't appear to be very receptive to owner's concerns.
I'm not convinced that the new Avalon is clearly superior than the model it replaces. Perhaps a giant leap sideways as opposed to forward?
While undeniabley much has been improved, some traditional "Avalon qualities" have been diminished or compromised, like ride quality, noise control, transmission behavior and perhaps quality control. However when compared with anything else out there in the price range, I believe it still stands heads and shoulders above the competition - especially in the engine department and the execution of the interior. If I knew then what I know now, I would not have traded my '02 Avalon for the new Avalon, however if I didn't have the old Avalon as a benchmark, then this Avalon would be my choice.
The wildcard is the new Hyundai Azera. It appears to have been engineered using the qualities of the old Avalon as a starting point, and if the new Sonata is anything to go by, this may very well be the car to out-Avalon the Avalon.
Did your 02 have transmission issues? Was it a five speed?
tx,
Mike
I never had a single warranty issue, not one in the 4 years I had the car, nothing ever misbehaved, failed or broke or needed replacement, except normal wear and tear items. I did replace the junk OEM Continentals at 10,000 miles though, which cured the vibration and pulling problems I initially experienced. I really wish Toyota wouldn't put junk tires on their cars. I have replaced the ones on my '05 already.
Why did I get the '05? My lease was up on the '02 and the power, looks and allure of the sensual '05 seduced me into temptation. It cost about the same for me to lease a new '05 as it would to have bought out the '02, so I decided to go with a new car with a new warranty.
In retrospect, perhaps staying with the old girl would have been a wiser choice, which I guess proves that beauty and youth ain't everything!!! (Although I personally could do with a bit more of both!)
one easy solution based on owners' experiences with the 05 avalon is to drop the shifter into 4th when driving around town. what this does is to override the mapped program for the shift points versus throttle application...this has gotten rid of the hesitation and slow/abrupt shifts that owners' have complained about. once on the hiway, shift into top gear.
once again, when buying a new car it pays to research what kind of throttle control the car has...as time goes on though, all cars will have the dbw technology...with time, the engineers should be able to make the system more seamless.
the dealer suggested it was the drive by wire an I was just not happy with it's normal performance.
the problem is the car has two natures... a jeckle and hyde type nature
when it is normal the shift patttern is fine shfitng about 3k rpms
when bad the accelerator is literally hard to depress i give alittle more gas it will race free spinning to 4k rms or higher wihtout momentum a plate clicking sound will occur and a puff of smoke will burst of the tail pipe
this "fit" will occur for a period of time then return to normal behavior this does not occur every drive trip it is very sporratic. ironically I am not a lead foot ...friends joke I drive like grandpa
some times it will start driving itself wihtout me touching the accellerator for distances at 40 mi per hour
this just does not seem like normal drive by wire to me any thoughts. thanks again!
I am not an expert on the new models, nor did I stay at a holiday inn last night. But....on a 30K car, I don't think that would be the answer that would first come to mind.
Make sure that everything, is secure in the trunk, including the jack, spare tire, etc first. Open a window, and see if you can detect where the sound is coming from. Trunk, suspension parts, etc. Sometime anti sway bars can creek, not thump though. Consider taking it to a wheel and axle type of place and let them drive it for 5 minutes for a second opinion.
I am not a big truster of dealerships, especially since they have not had to care of this new model for very long.
Good luck.
abfisch
Check spare tire, jack & lug nut wrench mounting. They can bounce around a little.
It is not a continual problem. It is intermittent so even if you are unlucky enough to have one that develops the problem, it will only bother you some of the time and not all of the time.
It took Toyota nearly 3 years to correct the computer related transmission problems with the ES330 and the Camry, so I guess they will eventually come out with a fix for the Avalon, although who knows how long that will be.
I don't think it is caused by the fuel moving in the tank. The fuel tank should have baffles that prevent the fuel from moving around too much. I also haven't heard thumping noises from the fuel tanks on any of my other Toyotas. Fuel tanks are not new technology. I suppose if the entire fuel tank itself were loose (and shifting) it could cause a thump.
I was wondering if the thump could be related to the Strut Tower issue. Can anyone explain what the symtoms are of a faulty Strut Tower? I have a rapid ticking sound from the rear deck area and the thump on acceleration.
I should take the car to my dealer and have these noises checked, but it would just be a waste of my time. The service department at Lia Toyata of Wilbraham, MA has made little attempt to address other problems in the past. However, I was pleasantly surprised that they managed to add the full 6.5 quartz when doing an oil change for just $35.
Can anyone recommend a good Toyota service department in central Massachusetts?
that said, my Odyssey did have some metal burrs on the strut tower front-right. when going over tiny road imperfections, it would exhibit a light tapping or tick tick tick sound. i rode with a tech and he immediately identified the problem. i believe they deburred the tower, applied a lubricant and re-assembled. i haven't had a problem since.
i know the vehicles aren't the same, but you may be on to something. you might be able to rule one possibility out: if it were gas in the tank, if you perhaps had someone push you in a level parking lot say, with the engine off and in neutral, then apply the brakes to come to a quick stop; you probably would hear a slosh back and forth perhaps twice or three times... that would probably be a quite different sound than a strut in need of servicing.
does the ticking rate vary with vehicle speed? does the ticking change with the road surface being driven on?
hope it helps.
abfisch
Is the problem really corrected on the 04 ES-330 ?
Hard to say if it is really fixed. I drove a brand new '06 Sienna today which has the same 3.3 liter engine as the ES330 and I thought the transmission behavior was worse than the Avalon! I think Toyota has taken a retrogressive step as far as transmissions are concerned. They used to be perfect.
I guess you'll have to drive one and see for yourself. Drive it for about 30 minutes though, both on the highway and in slow moving traffic. You will get a feel for the shift patterns.
On the positive side, the dealer reset my Avalon's transmission computer and it feels much better.
Here's some really interesting info. Like it or not,it's worth reading.
My Internet research reveals there are at least Four (count 'em---4!!)Aftermarket Suppliers of "Transmission Performance Programmers", also called "Power Control Modules", sometimes called "Automotive Performance Computers" which are able to modify shift performance, shift points, shift firmness, and a host of other parameters for 4,5,and 6 speed automatic transmissions on every make or model of vehicle on the planet.
That tells me (1)There's no mystery or black magic to this issue, (2)The so called "unknown fix" isn't unknown--likely Toyota included, (3)A lucrative market exists for people to change the way their trannys work--not just Toyota/Lexus, (4)Cost is modest--prices range from $125 to $400 depending how sophistcated one wants to go.
All the confusing technobabble aside, in layman's terms, I no longer believe it's the mysterious and elusive quest we've all been obsessing about.
That said, here's what I think this issue boils down to.
All manufacturer's DBW throttle/transmission systems have unusual or unfamiliar characteristics. I believe those Service Tech's comments about it being a "normal" characteristic are probably correct. I believe it's likely a consistent phenomenon across the board--typical to a greater or lesser degree to all manufacturers. Auto manufacturing consistency today is higher than it's ever been, so anomalies like some suggest this may be aren't too prevailent any more.
So I believe that complaints we are seeing have more to do with a few owners having adverse sensitivity to the issue, and most owners not noticing it nor being bothered by it.
More research results. A small sampling to be sure, but revealing nonetheless.
Since coming into this issue last October, I've driven 12 Toyota/Lexus products with 5 speed BBW in addition to our own two cars. Lexus 330 and RX series, Highlander, Avalons, and Camry. None has exhibited any of the delay, lurching, seeking, or prolonged hesitation. All have been seamless, smooth and quiet. I have yet to experience any of this phenomenon, and I have yet to speak directly to anyone who has.
P.S. I would recommend letting Toyota give it a shot first (like I said, they have a TSB) before looking into aftermarket fixes.
smooth01, "Transmission problems with Lexus ES-300 ?" #1020, 15 Jan 2006 8:41 am
Not sure if it is the same shudder that you are feeling. The Shudder-guard flush kit mentioned in the post was done by a Toyota dealer, so apparently "Toyota-approved", but it sounds like it is an aftermarket fix.
Vibration/Shuttering at low speed. I would put high suspect on the wheels or tires being out of balance or out of round. It is possible. Have them check that first. That should be easy enough to do. Start with the tires first and work inwards. In other words, wheels, rotors, etc. Usually at lower speeds it is the tires or wheels. At higher speeds it is the rotors or axle(CV joints).
abfisch
9.8%.....
No going back to yesterday, sorry.
Thanks.
Any time a vehicle is on the road and essentially coasting in neutral with automatic and no connection to the engine, there are dozens of potential problems. Can you imagine an automatic doing this in bad weather? A disconnect to neutral? Surely not..... (Manuals are different but this is apparently a suggestion for an automatic.)
I am NOT suggesting anyone immediately run down to the neighborhood automotive store to buy a performance enhancer, and yes, I am aware the device would probably void one's warranty. That's decidedly a no brainer.
My ONLY reason for raising the point was to show how solutions are already out there. This is, after all, a "problems and solutions" forum.
And yes, different makes/models of cars require different performance enhancing devices. That's why, when one buys one of these devices, it is necessary to specify which make/model one owns, so the appropriate device is purchased. They are make/model specific--look it up on the net.
They come in all styles and shapes, with a variety of operating characteristics and user features. The simplest ones are straight replacement CPU chips, non adjustable nor programmable. Some factory chips are non removeable, so in these cases the performance enhancing device installs in line with the transmission CPU harness. For some units, what's changed stays that way until the new chip is replaced or the unit running in parallel is removed. High end units are dashboard mount, infinitely programmable, and are capable of providing a variety of different performance characteristics, even while in motion.
No matter how one slices and dices this issue, it's not the deep, dark, unsolvable mystery that it's thought to be.
That's all I'm trying to say.
Why would it be unsafe for an automatic to do exactly that??
Other car is a M/T BMW.
abfisch