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1) Replace the Hall sensor switch (comes with replacement ignition). For my '97 GA, this I'm told is as little as a $250-part and as much as a $600-part, plus an hour or two labor (I suspect the $250 price is wrong, though it came from a Chevy dealer).
2) Bridge the system by installing the toggle per the service bulletin, as if one were prepping the car for installation of a remote-control starter.
3) Bridge the system by cutting the yellow data wire while the engine is running, installing no toggle, then hoping your battery never dies (not likely). :sick:
4) Rip the entire system out, from the fuel injectors back to the steering column, and lie to GM about what happened so that they will reprogram your computer (which you would have to send to them). :mad:
5) Sell the car. :pblt:
Of these, in my opinion, option 3 is very risky in the long run, and option 4 requires abilities beyond most amateur repairmen. If option 5 is out for whatever reason, one is stuck either with options 1 or 2. Since I cannot imagine who would want to steal a ten-year-old Pontiac in a town full of new Cadillacs and BMWs, option 1 is an expensive way to impose upon me a part which has no actual function -- it is no more than an installed repair. That leaves splicing the toggle into the data wire (or finding someone who'll do it for you) as the alternative remaining.
If the system has armed, and you are stuck, I have found that patience will get you out of the jam. They say ten minutes, but I have had to leave my auxiliary key in the ignition for an hour or more to get the computer to behave. I turn the key to the furthest non-starting position, so that all of the idiot lights come on, and just leave it there. So far so good -- the computer eventually does reprogram -- and I have not bridged with the toggle yet.
Needless to say: If one installs the toggle, and the battery dies or is disconnected, to disarm the reactivated Passlock, turn the toggle on (data wire connected), insert the key into ignition and turn to full on (don't start), and wait 60 minutes. Once the engine is started and running, turn the toggle off (data wire cut). Passlock should then be disabled until power is interrupted again.
Again, install all parts per the service bulletin (about page 4 of this posting, as a hot link). After all, when all else fails, read the directions!
Finally, there is no reason why anyone should have to put up with a shoddy job masquerading as quality repairs when it isn't. If you catch a shop doing this, turn them into your state authorities. Not all are aggressive; but, only a few have to be for most of the rest of the offenders to get the message. After all: I don't get $85/hour for my labor; why should they? And, especially if it is crappy work!
I've thought carefully about what we are seeing, and I am certain there is more going on than appears. I have no hard data to support this, but common sense tells one a company does not frivolously offend its customer base or refuse to do for a customer what the customer desires, when such a request is legal, cheap, and possible.
Unless one is a car company and can be sued by almost anyone who does not make cars. :surprise:
The cold fact is that, like any corporation, GM is in business to maximize the bottom line and thus make investors happy. Insurance companies have the same motivation, and one way to better the bottom line of an insurance company is to cut down on auto-theft claims. One does that ultimately by cutting auto theft, and if one is a smart lawyer working for an insurance company, you cut down on auto theft by suing the car maker for selling a product so defective it can be stolen. :P
Aha! Why do you think GM isn't afraid when people like you threaten to sue them for defective anti-theft switches? I suggest the answer is that people with deeper pockets and more lawyers than you already have threatened to sue them first -- for not doing the very thing that is making us mad! :shades:
So, GM is going to do everything it can to make you use this system, and keep the host of men from disabling it. One of the chief mechanics at one of the independent shops I talked to initially told me that his place had ripped out entire Passlock systems, lied to GM, and had them reprogram the computer. But, when I took my GA to his place, suddenly he would not even agree to splice in the toggle, claiming there was too much potential liability.
Liability? From whom? Certainly not from me. So, who is threatening to sue him? :confuse:
I have had problems with getting my car to start for roughly a year. Maybe about once every 1-2 months I would turn the key, get it to crank and no start. Security light on the dash comes on and blinks for 10 minutes. Waiting 10 minutes for a retry usually got the car to start until recently. The security light / no start issue has gotten to the point where 3-4 tries to start (waiting 10 minutes for the light to go off between each) still doesn't get the car moving. From what I read in the owners manual and on numerous web forums I conclude that the problem is passlock. I have some good news, there is a cheap fix that you can do yourself.
PERMANENT PASSLOCK BYPASS
Minimum tools/materials:
wire cutters/wire stripper
electrical tape
ohmmeter
resistors
Remove the radio from your dash and let it hang. Find the 3 passlock wires usually bundled together separately to the left of radio. My 3 wires were taped together as a small bundle inside a larger bundle of wires. The 3 wires should be small, 20-22 ga., and their colors are white, black, and yellow. White (possibly red) is typically 12v power, yellow is the data wire, and black is ground (also called bulb test wire). While your car is off and key is out of the ignition, cut the yellow wire and strip both ends of it. Strip a section of the black wire but do not cut it. Connect an ohmmeter between the black wire and the ignition side of the yellow wire. Put your key in the ignition and turn it, put the car in gear and crank it over. The resistance value of your particular passlock will show on the ohmmeter. Turn the car off. Now take a resistor, or several resistors and get as close to this resistance as possible. Connect one side of the resisitor to the black ground wire and the other side of the resistor to the engine side of the yellow wire. Try and start the car to test it out and make sure it works. The car should start, if it does electrical tape any bare connections and put your dash back together. THIS BYPASS TECHNIQUE WORKS, I have done it myself. I recommend you solder the resistors in for better connections.
Using a pot I found that my resistor value was on the list below (found from some webpage I cannot remember) and could be varied to roughly ±5% and the car would still start, so there is some margin for error in the resistor values.
Nominal Value
402Ω
523Ω
681Ω
887Ω
1130Ω
1470Ω
1870Ω
2370Ω
3010Ω
3740Ω
4750Ω
6040Ω
7500Ω
9530Ω
11800Ω
Hope this info helps someone else. Goodluck
http://www.carspace.com/guides
The key eventually turned following a shot of WD40, and all was well. Until the battery died a month ago. Then the no-start issues. I'm not there to see whether the security light is on or not. And when she sent for a tow truck the driver got it to start by depressing the throttle. Off it went to the local Firestone, where they re-set the security system-numerous times-and said it was fine. Three weeks later...No start. It's now at the Pontiac dealership.
I'm thinking it's the dang passlock system, and they're gonna hit her up with a hefty repair bill. (of course, if she hadn't put over 80K miles on the car, the extended warranty would still be in effect-where do kids drive?)
Oh, the car is nice...But it's also a POS. Power window regulators? Been through three.
Keep ya posted.
The problem was caused by a water leak (environmental water, not coolant) in the area of the heater/ac box. Seems it somehow separated from the firewall. The water caused the body 'module' to corode to the point that it could no longer 'communicate' with the ecm. Bottom line?
$800 to fix. Oh, and not surprisingly...they have the parts 'in stock'....Makes ya wonder. No, it just reaffirms what a POS the GA is/was.
I put in a switch to disable the passlock system and it is workin great. Cost me about 7 bucks and about 45 minutes of labor including drilling and mounting the remote switch.
Anyone can do this.
Cheers,
Valkrider99
carefully read the bulletin.
PO2: Your problem may not be only the switch: To fix the turn indicator, the dealer's shop may have disconnected the battery. If your wire were cut before you bought the car, assuming no toggle was installed, disconnecting the battery could have rearmed the system. So, the first thing anyone needs to check is whether the wire still is intact. If it isn't, a new switch won't fix the problem (the cut wire will prevent its signal from getting to the computer). :sick:
To disarm passlock, the vehicle must be running when the wire is disconnected. If the wire is disconnected with the engine off, the passlock system will not disengage. This is why it is important to install the toggle -- turning the toggle "on" -- reconnecting the wire -- rearms passlock, whether the engine is on or off; but, with the wire connected, it is possible (sometimes) to get the engine running, so that then you can turn the toggle off. That way, you're not stuck at Pontiac the next time they disconnect your battery.
I am going to write GM and will be glad to join any class action suit.
Will post back with any progress.
I will also add that I only knew what to do the first time after googling and finding this forum. So thanks to everyone for that.
Will post back after I know more next week.
Gary H.
I mean: Some of this is so obvious.
Your problem is not Passlock, perhaps can be rectified with a little silicone spray into the key hole. If you do have to replace the ignition, THEN you will need a locksmith who knows how to align and activate the new Passlock feature to your existing key.
I disabled my passlock by "cut the wire" method. It has worked fine, although (about once per month) the truck (99 Tahoe) will not start. It has the same characteristics (cranks, starts, you relase the key, then it dies right away).
Could the problem be an intermittent connection between the BCM and the PCM? I assume that even though the BCM is in a fault mode with the wire cut, it still sends the code to the PCM to allow the injectors to function. If thats the case I can look for the bad connection between the BCM and PCM.
Thanks for shedding light on this issue.
I waited about an hour, and the counter guy came out. He said...and I hope I understood him right, because I am car stupid...that there is a passlock sensor inside of the ignition. He said they had one in stock, and had replaced mine. In retrospect, I don't know if that means that they replaced the entire ingition, or just the sensor.
There was no charge, and hopefully this has taken care of it. I run my business out of my house, and don't drive too much. My hopes are that if there are going to be any more issues of related to the security system that they happen before the warranty expires.
I've spent $1500 at the dealer, each time they replace something. It works for a while and the problem comes back. The real problem is an intermittent connection somewhere, my intermittent connection always occurs on hot humid days. The dealer take the car into their shop and by the time they replace a component, the intermittent connection goes away. The problem goes away and the dealer thinks they fixed the problem.
I'm stuck with mine, but if I had a new car under warrenty, I'd sell it back to the dealer and let them deal with it.
I hope that you won't have the problem again for some time.
But, I will have to second Mike's observation about humidity exacerbating the problem. My system tends to stick in the "off" position (as if I'd plugged in the toggle, but I haven't yet). At those times in the year when the weather shifts from dry to humid, the system can become reactivated intermittently, and that is when I have problems.
One of the worst times occurred when I accidentally left a window down a little and it rained. Both front seats got soaked, and while they dried out in a locked up car, the humidity activated the system and shut down the vehicle. But, as soon as all the water was forced out and dissipated, the car went back to behaving fine.
Electrical phenomenon!
any help please ??? i just dropped 300 down for the ignition and i am kind of stuck right now .????
i just got a price of 100-150 bucks from a shop that will disconect the theft system altogether .frankly i have had it with Gm for a while .i got nothing but bs and lies from the dealers gmcanada was no help at all .
1) Raining. When parking a !999 Buick Regal the key would not come out of the ignition lock, the security light came on, the key would only move between the "run" and 'start' positions. The key was removed by removing the plastic plug on the bottom of the steering column under the key, and inserting a wire to trip the release.
Next day, it's dry, no problem with the key at all.
2) Raining: When pulling into a parking lot a 1992 Buick LeSabre stalls, the security light comes on, key wouldn't come out of the ignition lock; vehicle would not restart (turn over, but not start). 5 minutes later a motorist assisted with a 'jump' start which at which point the engine starts immediately. No problems since.
In essence there could possibly be enough fuel in the cylinders for it to start briefly, but stall almost immediately. Any subsequent tries would most likely result in no start at all.
A failing electric fuel pump can manifest itself in many ways - no pressure out, low pressure out, or intermittent cases of both along with normal operation.
Have to agree about the security light though, it usually tells the story.
For an experienced person, it wouldn't be hard to differentiate between a Passlock problem and a failing fuel pump (or some other fuel delivery problem).
There's an excellent write up somewhere on the web about Passkey, Passlock I&II, etc. I wish I could remember the URL. Also had all the procedures for bypassing the various systems.
Every two-four months I will get in the vehicle and it won't start. Cranks but won't start. I finally refused to go back to the dealer as they refused to admit that the problem was the security system.
That is until today when I called the service manager and again got in this discussion about this problem. I now have two young grand children and can see myself getting stranded out in the middle of nowhere because of the fact that GM Pontiac does not fix this problem once and for all. I am scared to death of being stranded with a car that won't start. I love my grand am and will not get rid of it but I will go to court if necessary to get restitution and results if necessary.
Please let me know what, when and where and I will gladly join the cause for resolution in this matter.
My 2001 Grand Am has starnded me five times in the past two years and I am sick of the dealership and GM not taking action to correct this problem. I even had a new lock cylinder put in the vehicle in March just to have the same thing happen again this past Sunday. This was the fifth time. $240.00 in tow bills and over $1000 in repairs and I am still stuck. HELP!!!!!!!!!!
It was hard to tell what relationship the security light had to the starting problem for awhile. Now after two years I find out it obviously thinks someone or something is tampering with the system and shuts it down until it is either "relearned" by the repair shop or does it by itself in a matter of hours and sometimes days or sometimes not at all.
Its hard to believe the genious service techs at the dealership cannot figure what this is or what to do about it for a permanent fix. I can't keep incurring these costs.
Your situation seems to be the same. What have they told you and what steps have you taken? I forgot what year your vehicle is???
Anyway, I think you need to find a different dealer or repair shop to diagnose and repair it, if that's what your aim is.
I had a Passlock failure on the 99SE I had, which was the Hall effect sensor on the ignition switch (easily 95% of the problems). It took my local dealer about 20 minutes to diagnose and about an hour to repair. I left $325 poorer, but that prompted me to educate myself about the system and found out I could have repaired it myself. So I guess the education cost me $325 in essence.
That doesn't sound like your problem though based on your symptoms.
So.....today I went to the dealership and had a long face to face with the service manager. He says his experience has been the BCM, the lock cylinder, or a wiring harness. He admitted with embarrassment that since everything but the wiring harness had been done to my vehicle we were running out of "guesses", I meant options.
He is going to take it in free of charge this weekend and keep it monday and get to the root of the problem if at all possible. Not going to cost me a cent,so he says. He admits other have had the same problem. Interesting that it has taken 2 1/2 years for them to fess up to the fact that there is a real problem that they probably don't know how to solve. Go figure!!!
I will let you know after I get the vehicle back on Monday and advise what is the final conclusion.