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Pontiac Grand Am Security Passlock Problems

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Comments

  • nobullchitbidsnobullchitbids Member Posts: 53
    I've asked numerous mechanics, including some who say they have disabled Passlock, and apparently there are only these alternatives:

    1) Replace the Hall sensor switch (comes with replacement ignition). For my '97 GA, this I'm told is as little as a $250-part and as much as a $600-part, plus an hour or two labor (I suspect the $250 price is wrong, though it came from a Chevy dealer). :cry:

    2) Bridge the system by installing the toggle per the service bulletin, as if one were prepping the car for installation of a remote-control starter. ;)

    3) Bridge the system by cutting the yellow data wire while the engine is running, installing no toggle, then hoping your battery never dies (not likely). :sick:

    4) Rip the entire system out, from the fuel injectors back to the steering column, and lie to GM about what happened so that they will reprogram your computer (which you would have to send to them). :mad:

    5) Sell the car. :pblt:

    Of these, in my opinion, option 3 is very risky in the long run, and option 4 requires abilities beyond most amateur repairmen. If option 5 is out for whatever reason, one is stuck either with options 1 or 2. Since I cannot imagine who would want to steal a ten-year-old Pontiac in a town full of new Cadillacs and BMWs, option 1 is an expensive way to impose upon me a part which has no actual function -- it is no more than an installed repair. That leaves splicing the toggle into the data wire (or finding someone who'll do it for you) as the alternative remaining.

    If the system has armed, and you are stuck, I have found that patience will get you out of the jam. They say ten minutes, but I have had to leave my auxiliary key in the ignition for an hour or more to get the computer to behave. I turn the key to the furthest non-starting position, so that all of the idiot lights come on, and just leave it there. So far so good -- the computer eventually does reprogram -- and I have not bridged with the toggle yet.

    Needless to say: If one installs the toggle, and the battery dies or is disconnected, to disarm the reactivated Passlock, turn the toggle on (data wire connected), insert the key into ignition and turn to full on (don't start), and wait 60 minutes. Once the engine is started and running, turn the toggle off (data wire cut). Passlock should then be disabled until power is interrupted again.

    Again, install all parts per the service bulletin (about page 4 of this posting, as a hot link). After all, when all else fails, read the directions!

    Finally, there is no reason why anyone should have to put up with a shoddy job masquerading as quality repairs when it isn't. If you catch a shop doing this, turn them into your state authorities. Not all are aggressive; but, only a few have to be for most of the rest of the offenders to get the message. After all: I don't get $85/hour for my labor; why should they? And, especially if it is crappy work!
  • ahansenahansen Member Posts: 2
    I totally agree couldn't have said it better myself! I would think with falling sales, someone would care, guess not.
  • nobullchitbidsnobullchitbids Member Posts: 53
    Mr. Hansen:

    I've thought carefully about what we are seeing, and I am certain there is more going on than appears. I have no hard data to support this, but common sense tells one a company does not frivolously offend its customer base or refuse to do for a customer what the customer desires, when such a request is legal, cheap, and possible.

    Unless one is a car company and can be sued by almost anyone who does not make cars. :surprise:

    The cold fact is that, like any corporation, GM is in business to maximize the bottom line and thus make investors happy. Insurance companies have the same motivation, and one way to better the bottom line of an insurance company is to cut down on auto-theft claims. One does that ultimately by cutting auto theft, and if one is a smart lawyer working for an insurance company, you cut down on auto theft by suing the car maker for selling a product so defective it can be stolen. :P

    Aha! Why do you think GM isn't afraid when people like you threaten to sue them for defective anti-theft switches? I suggest the answer is that people with deeper pockets and more lawyers than you already have threatened to sue them first -- for not doing the very thing that is making us mad! :shades:

    So, GM is going to do everything it can to make you use this system, and keep the host of men from disabling it. One of the chief mechanics at one of the independent shops I talked to initially told me that his place had ripped out entire Passlock systems, lied to GM, and had them reprogram the computer. But, when I took my GA to his place, suddenly he would not even agree to splice in the toggle, claiming there was too much potential liability.

    Liability? From whom? Certainly not from me. So, who is threatening to sue him? :confuse:
  • vyrvyr Member Posts: 2
    I would like to start by saying that this forum was very helpful with my passlock problems so I would like to share my problem and also my solution.

    I have had problems with getting my car to start for roughly a year. Maybe about once every 1-2 months I would turn the key, get it to crank and no start. Security light on the dash comes on and blinks for 10 minutes. Waiting 10 minutes for a retry usually got the car to start until recently. The security light / no start issue has gotten to the point where 3-4 tries to start (waiting 10 minutes for the light to go off between each) still doesn't get the car moving. From what I read in the owners manual and on numerous web forums I conclude that the problem is passlock. I have some good news, there is a cheap fix that you can do yourself.

    PERMANENT PASSLOCK BYPASS

    Minimum tools/materials:
    wire cutters/wire stripper
    electrical tape
    ohmmeter
    resistors

    Remove the radio from your dash and let it hang. Find the 3 passlock wires usually bundled together separately to the left of radio. My 3 wires were taped together as a small bundle inside a larger bundle of wires. The 3 wires should be small, 20-22 ga., and their colors are white, black, and yellow. White (possibly red) is typically 12v power, yellow is the data wire, and black is ground (also called bulb test wire). While your car is off and key is out of the ignition, cut the yellow wire and strip both ends of it. Strip a section of the black wire but do not cut it. Connect an ohmmeter between the black wire and the ignition side of the yellow wire. Put your key in the ignition and turn it, put the car in gear and crank it over. The resistance value of your particular passlock will show on the ohmmeter. Turn the car off. Now take a resistor, or several resistors and get as close to this resistance as possible. Connect one side of the resisitor to the black ground wire and the other side of the resistor to the engine side of the yellow wire. Try and start the car to test it out and make sure it works. The car should start, if it does electrical tape any bare connections and put your dash back together. THIS BYPASS TECHNIQUE WORKS, I have done it myself. I recommend you solder the resistors in for better connections.

    Using a pot I found that my resistor value was on the list below (found from some webpage I cannot remember) and could be varied to roughly ±5% and the car would still start, so there is some margin for error in the resistor values.

    Nominal Value
    402Ω
    523Ω
    681Ω
    887Ω
    1130Ω
    1470Ω
    1870Ω
    2370Ω
    3010Ω
    3740Ω
    4750Ω
    6040Ω
    7500Ω
    9530Ω
    11800Ω

    Hope this info helps someone else. Goodluck :)
  • dsudeltadsudelta Member Posts: 5
    Ok, It has been a little over 2 months since I cut the wires to disable the passlock system and so far so good. No problems. I even had the battery replace about 6 weeks ago and the car is still running. No false starts here.
  • Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
    Thanks for that info! It would be great if you made this into a guide. Basically, all you need to do is copy/paste what you have here.

    http://www.carspace.com/guides
  • krs01grandamkrs01grandam Member Posts: 8
    #108 did you just cut the wires or did you put a toggle switch in or what....
  • hackfabhackfab Member Posts: 2
    Just joined this forum, however I've read all the posts with regards to the passlock-starting issue. My daughter's 2001 GA GT has the same problem. It started perhaps when one winter evening she could not get the key to physically turn in the ignition. She left the car at our house and took mine back to her apartment. I Googled and came to this site (and others).

    The key eventually turned following a shot of WD40, and all was well. Until the battery died a month ago. Then the no-start issues. I'm not there to see whether the security light is on or not. And when she sent for a tow truck the driver got it to start by depressing the throttle. Off it went to the local Firestone, where they re-set the security system-numerous times-and said it was fine. Three weeks later...No start. It's now at the Pontiac dealership.

    I'm thinking it's the dang passlock system, and they're gonna hit her up with a hefty repair bill. (of course, if she hadn't put over 80K miles on the car, the extended warranty would still be in effect-where do kids drive?)

    Oh, the car is nice...But it's also a POS. Power window regulators? Been through three.

    Keep ya posted.
  • hackfabhackfab Member Posts: 2
    Okay, here's what the Pontiac stealership told me:

    The problem was caused by a water leak (environmental water, not coolant) in the area of the heater/ac box. Seems it somehow separated from the firewall. The water caused the body 'module' to corode to the point that it could no longer 'communicate' with the ecm. Bottom line?

    $800 to fix. Oh, and not surprisingly...they have the parts 'in stock'....Makes ya wonder. No, it just reaffirms what a POS the GA is/was.
  • virgo58virgo58 Member Posts: 10
    I think they are feeding you a line of crap to be honest with you. After dealing with this problem for over 2 years and eventually threatening a lawsuit, I had my car at the dealership for a week and a half, I think they basically replaced everything in the dash (I have the papers at work, will supply the exact diagnosis tomorrow) it finally appears to be fixed. I haven't had the problem since March, fingers crossed. I'm still in the process of legal action for all of the prior money spend and time lost from work that it cost me. They were oh so generous to offer me an extended maintenance program for my troubles - oh boy, don't do me any favors. Just my point of view but I DON'T beleive thats your problem and as you said, just trying to get money out of you unecessarily. When I get to work tomorrow I will get on line and tell you exactly what they did to my car that supposedly did the trick. Hope this helps!
  • valkrider99valkrider99 Member Posts: 1
    Thank you all, :)

    I put in a switch to disable the passlock system and it is workin great. Cost me about 7 bucks and about 45 minutes of labor including drilling and mounting the remote switch.
    Anyone can do this.
    Cheers,
    Valkrider99
  • pontiac4pontiac4 Member Posts: 10
    I bought a 2002 Grand Am GT a couple of months ago and the passlock system started acting up. I have read a lot about this subject on these boards so I took my radio out to look at the yellow wire. Someone had soldered it to the black wire. I disconnected it from the black wire but left the yellow wire cut. Now the car won't even turn over let alone start. I wish I had never bought this car.
  • pissedoff2pissedoff2 Member Posts: 3
    I'm having the same problem that everyone else is having with the piss of [non-permissible content removed] passlock. Would you be able to give me step by step instructions on how to do what you did to fix yours.
  • pissedoff2pissedoff2 Member Posts: 3
    I went to the Pontiac dealership today and had them fix the turn signal clicking whih cost $280.00. Funny thing when I got there to get my car it would not run. They told me that I needed a new passlock sensor which would cost me $380 for them to fix the problem. I argued that the car was running when I brought it in and now it isn't. After speaking to several robots I was basically told that either give up the money or get my car of their lot. I alled Pontiac Customer service and that was a joke also. They basically go with what the dealer has told them even though they had told me three different stories. I did ask them if these was a problem on the Grand Am's and I was told it was and when I asked why there wasn't a recall on it then they told me that if it isn't a safety issue they do not recall it. I guess they figure if your car doesn't run you should be safe. I bought the car just a few months ago and the security light has always been on and the car has always started until they worked on it today. I have tried turning the key to on and waiting ten minutes but the light remains on. Does the car after to be on to be able to cut the wires and disable the vehicle to get it to start?
  • nobullchitbidsnobullchitbids Member Posts: 53
    The instructions on how to do this have been posted previously: Ray Corri's post, # 56, on page 4 of this thread. Follow his hot links to the service bulletin, and .
    carefully read the bulletin. :)

    PO2: Your problem may not be only the switch: To fix the turn indicator, the dealer's shop may have disconnected the battery. If your wire were cut before you bought the car, assuming no toggle was installed, disconnecting the battery could have rearmed the system. So, the first thing anyone needs to check is whether the wire still is intact. If it isn't, a new switch won't fix the problem (the cut wire will prevent its signal from getting to the computer). :sick:

    To disarm passlock, the vehicle must be running when the wire is disconnected. If the wire is disconnected with the engine off, the passlock system will not disengage. This is why it is important to install the toggle -- turning the toggle "on" -- reconnecting the wire -- rearms passlock, whether the engine is on or off; but, with the wire connected, it is possible (sometimes) to get the engine running, so that then you can turn the toggle off. That way, you're not stuck at Pontiac the next time they disconnect your battery. ;)
  • mdburgessmdburgess Member Posts: 2
    Be careful cutting wires to bypass the passlock system, on my 2003 GA GT the only yellow wire to the left of the radio disables the starter. How do I know? I cut it like an idiot.
  • momtwinsmomtwins Member Posts: 1
    I am joining the band wagon today. I have a 2004 Grand Am with 42,000 miles and less than three years old that has the same problem. It is being repaired as I type to the tune of $450 so hopefully that is the last of it.

    I am going to write GM and will be glad to join any class action suit.
  • pissedoff2pissedoff2 Member Posts: 3
    What I did was complain to everyone at the dealership and finally spoke with the top guy about the piss of [non-permissible content removed] security problem. Believe me if you complain enough and make enough noise they will just want you to go away. They know about the problem and unless you are willing to make them uncomfortable they are going to continue to screw you over. I finally negatiated for half the cost and it was $190.00. The dealership can also call there GM parts person and they can get the part for free. Just keep on them. :mad:
  • starterupstarterup Member Posts: 1
    Turn your key to "ON" in your ignition and leave on for 10 minutes and when the security light stay's on and does not flash any more turn the key to off then starterup :)
  • pontiac4pontiac4 Member Posts: 10
    That is the problem, everyone knows about the ten minute reset but it continues to get worse until even that doesn't work.
  • selenaselena Member Posts: 3
    Stranded is probably dramatic, because I knew what to do from the first time it happened, and I waited the requisite 10 minutes. But it caused my day to be a real PITA, as that 10 minutes made me late for something important. I just got off the phone with Pontiac, and they took all my info. I've got to take it to a dealer after the 4th. I hope they can do something; the idea of someone just clipping wires makes me nervous. Not to mention the fact that it only has 27K miles on it, and I expect it to work the way it should.

    Will post back with any progress.

    I will also add that I only knew what to do the first time after googling and finding this forum. So thanks to everyone for that. :)
  • nobullchitbidsnobullchitbids Member Posts: 53
    Selena without realizing it raises a good point: With only 27K miles on the car, it still should be under warranty, and if it is, I wouldn't cut any wires either. I think she is going to be surprised when she gets the bill, :mad: but please tell us if you had to pay it? :confuse:
  • pontiac4pontiac4 Member Posts: 10
    I would ask them if its still under warranty and if they have a recall yet.
  • virgo58virgo58 Member Posts: 10
    Don't bother with Pontiac Customer Service, they act like they care but they really don't give a ----. I dealt with this for over 2 years. Knock on wood, it might finally be fixed. I told them I wanted to be reimbursed for all of my lost time and wages as well as unnecessary parts that I purchased as they played their guessing game as to how to fix it at my expense. There first offer was to give me an extended maintenance contract. I told them thanks, but no thanks, I could change my own damn oil. I just wanted back what was MINE. After the continued threat of a lawsuit I was contacted again by them, with their stupid unnecessary act of concern and after a day they informed me that it wasn't their "Policy" to reimburse for lost wages. Well how nice for Pontiac. Yet they have no problem donating 1,000,000 in a scholarship to Ohio State during the NCAA final four. I suggested to them that they might consider donating some of that to the customers who have suffered such grief after purchasing their joke of a vehicle, the very people that keep them in business. I then asked them if they could still wonder my Americans won't buy American made products? WHAT JUNK and what a shame. I say we should all do our best to put GM out of business - wonder what their "Policy is on that?" To summarize - I haven't given up, I'm checking into locating legal representation for a class action lawsuit, one big enough to take on GM and WIN. If nothing else, I think everyone should file a small claims lawsuit against them for their blatant piece of crap product and for costing all of us our sanity, time and money. Let's see their lawyers jump all over the US trying to defend their ethics in all of these cases. We all have to stick together to win and as big a pain as it is and I know sometimes its just easier to say forget it - but trust me - that's exactly what GM is counting on. Don't let them win yet again, at least we can save all the others to follow behind us their grief.
  • selenaselena Member Posts: 3
    Well, I've just got off the phone with a dealership to get it scheduled for the diagnostics. According to the man who scheduled me, I'm under my 3 year warranty still, so the testing at least should not cost me.

    Will post back after I know more next week.
  • pontiac4pontiac4 Member Posts: 10
    It is a joke. I went to the Pontiac dealership today to get a maintenance history printout for my car. I asked the guy at the counter if he knew of any Passlock problems on GM cars and he looked at me and said no. He said if I brought my car in he would have one of :mad: his mechanics diagnose the problem. There was a mechanic behind him that was looking at the floor the whole time because he knew better. I wonder if 60 minutes had a camera on him and asked him the same question what his answer would be? :sick:
    Gary H.
  • kimba834kimba834 Member Posts: 1
    My 1999 Pontiac Grand Am is sitting in a NYC Garage, stuck because the key won't turn in the ignition. Will not budge at all. We cut the wheels back and forth. Nothing. Jiggled. Spoke gently. Spoke firmly. The meter is running and I will probably have to resort to extraordinary towing measures since we can't get the thing out of park. Does anyone have any advice. I am positive that the keys are mine. Any takers? I am fairly desperate. thanks all.
  • nobullchitbidsnobullchitbids Member Posts: 53
    Why not simply replace the ignition? Then drive it to wherever?

    I mean: Some of this is so obvious.

    Your problem is not Passlock, perhaps can be rectified with a little silicone spray into the key hole. If you do have to replace the ignition, THEN you will need a locksmith who knows how to align and activate the new Passlock feature to your existing key.
  • mikemontmikemont Member Posts: 3
    Ray,
    I disabled my passlock by "cut the wire" method. It has worked fine, although (about once per month) the truck (99 Tahoe) will not start. It has the same characteristics (cranks, starts, you relase the key, then it dies right away).
    Could the problem be an intermittent connection between the BCM and the PCM? I assume that even though the BCM is in a fault mode with the wire cut, it still sends the code to the PCM to allow the injectors to function. If thats the case I can look for the bad connection between the BCM and PCM.
    Thanks for shedding light on this issue.
  • selenaselena Member Posts: 3
    Took it in to the dealer this morning. I explained the problem to the guy at the counter and the guy who was going to do the actual work. They both agreed that it indeed sounded like a passlock issue.

    I waited about an hour, and the counter guy came out. He said...and I hope I understood him right, because I am car stupid...that there is a passlock sensor inside of the ignition. He said they had one in stock, and had replaced mine. In retrospect, I don't know if that means that they replaced the entire ingition, or just the sensor.

    There was no charge, and hopefully this has taken care of it. I run my business out of my house, and don't drive too much. My hopes are that if there are going to be any more issues of related to the security system that they happen before the warranty expires.
  • mikemontmikemont Member Posts: 3
    Dont worry Selena, you will be stranded again!
    I've spent $1500 at the dealer, each time they replace something. It works for a while and the problem comes back. The real problem is an intermittent connection somewhere, my intermittent connection always occurs on hot humid days. The dealer take the car into their shop and by the time they replace a component, the intermittent connection goes away. The problem goes away and the dealer thinks they fixed the problem.
    I'm stuck with mine, but if I had a new car under warrenty, I'd sell it back to the dealer and let them deal with it.
  • nobullchitbidsnobullchitbids Member Posts: 53
    Thanks Selena for the update. And you got it right. The "book" way to fix it is to pull the entire ignition switch and replace it with one having a good Hall sensor. The entire switch is replaced, not just the sensor.

    I hope that you won't have the problem again for some time.

    But, I will have to second Mike's observation about humidity exacerbating the problem. My system tends to stick in the "off" position (as if I'd plugged in the toggle, but I haven't yet). At those times in the year when the weather shifts from dry to humid, the system can become reactivated intermittently, and that is when I have problems.

    One of the worst times occurred when I accidentally left a window down a little and it rained. Both front seats got soaked, and while they dried out in a locked up car, the humidity activated the system and shut down the vehicle. But, as soon as all the water was forced out and dissipated, the car went back to behaving fine.

    Electrical phenomenon!
  • chris2kchris2k Member Posts: 2
    i just replaced my ignition cyl.in my 96 grand am now i did the 10 min. thing 3 times to reset the system .start the car passlock shuts the car down .i disconnected the battery let it sit ,tried again let it sit 3 times with ignition on for 15 min's .still shuts off car ????
    any help please ??? i just dropped 300 down for the ignition and i am kind of stuck right now .????
  • burdawgburdawg Member Posts: 1,524
    I guess that explains why those of us in the Southwest don't have much trouble with it. Hot and dry most of the year.
  • burdawgburdawg Member Posts: 1,524
    What exactly do you mean when you say the car starts but passlock shuts it down? If the passlock is tripped it won't start at all. Are you sure your not having a fuel pump problem? That sounds more like the symptoms of a weak and failing pump to me.
  • chris2kchris2k Member Posts: 2
    the theft system shuts the car off .car finally started yesterday only because the theft system stopped working ,but for how long ?after reading how many other people have the same trouble ...............
    i just got a price of 100-150 bucks from a shop that will disconect the theft system altogether .frankly i have had it with Gm for a while .i got nothing but bs and lies from the dealers gmcanada was no help at all .
  • bbuyerbbuyer Member Posts: 2
    I do believe there is a connection. Both times a GM vehicle has had problems with a key and security issues, it was raining.

    1) Raining. When parking a !999 Buick Regal the key would not come out of the ignition lock, the security light came on, the key would only move between the "run" and 'start' positions. The key was removed by removing the plastic plug on the bottom of the steering column under the key, and inserting a wire to trip the release.

    Next day, it's dry, no problem with the key at all.

    2) Raining: When pulling into a parking lot a 1992 Buick LeSabre stalls, the security light comes on, key wouldn't come out of the ignition lock; vehicle would not restart (turn over, but not start). 5 minutes later a motorist assisted with a 'jump' start which at which point the engine starts immediately. No problems since.
  • nobullchitbidsnobullchitbids Member Posts: 53
    Not true, burdawg. The PassLock system works by choking off fuel at the injectors. But, there's usually some residual fuel on the rails, enough to allow the engine to start. The symptoms of a problem are that the engine starts, revs, and dies. This is not the fuel pump as a rule (but could be). Check the idiot lights -- if the engine dies, does the "theft" light flash? If it does, the problem is PassLock, not the fuel pump.
  • burdawgburdawg Member Posts: 1,524
    If fuel is choked off at the injectors (by the injectors remaining closed), then any fuel in the rail is insignificant, since it won't get into the cylinders.
    In essence there could possibly be enough fuel in the cylinders for it to start briefly, but stall almost immediately. Any subsequent tries would most likely result in no start at all.
    A failing electric fuel pump can manifest itself in many ways - no pressure out, low pressure out, or intermittent cases of both along with normal operation.
    Have to agree about the security light though, it usually tells the story.
  • burdawgburdawg Member Posts: 1,524
    I went back and reviewed my Passlock data, and your correct, it is possible that the engine will run very briefly while the system is deciding if the resistance detected matches that which was saved. GM is cautious to say that it "may" run briefly, but I think most people wouldn't know difference.
    For an experienced person, it wouldn't be hard to differentiate between a Passlock problem and a failing fuel pump (or some other fuel delivery problem).
  • ebilartninjaebilartninja Member Posts: 1
    Hey vyr - will this work on Passlock I or just PK2? I have a 97 Grand Am GT with Passlock I. I hate this damn passlock! I already had the ign.lock cylinder and PK sensor replaced last August, having same problem again year later! Please get back to me! Thanks.
  • troubled4troubled4 Member Posts: 2
    my 96 grand am is doing the same thing i just sat for 15 minuets with the key on the theft light went off and my car started i dont know for how long but if anyone knows how or where to go to get the passlock takin out let me know
  • christronchristron Member Posts: 1
    I was finally able to fix my passlock problem for $144. It began by the car would start for half a second and turn off. Waiting 10 minutes or 100 minutes did nothing because the light was not blinking so the computer would never reset. The security light was on solid (not blinking). I disconnected my body control computer (BCC)because it had noticeable corrosion. The car did run but with no power windows, locks, trunk, ac, or running headlights but it did run. This is the same I guess as cutting the yellow passlock wire as I read in other articles. Everything was fine until the battery died. ( I also read that having the yellow wire cut will screw stuff up if the battery ever dies). I tried cutting the yellow wire, bypassing the passlock with resistors, and waiting hours for the computer to reset but still nothing. Then I went to auto zone and ordered a new BCC for $144 ($300 at the dealership) and installed it and the security light started blinking and after 10 minutes on the dot it turned off and now everything is fine and works great...for now.
  • burdawgburdawg Member Posts: 1,524
    You may have two problems and have only corrected one. If the Hall effect sensor on the ignition switch is bad or going bad you will have the flashing security light and waiting for ten minutes from time to time still.
    There's an excellent write up somewhere on the web about Passkey, Passlock I&II, etc. I wish I could remember the URL. Also had all the procedures for bypassing the various systems.
  • feverbelieverfeverbeliever Member Posts: 9
    Thank God there are others out there like me. The last two and a half years have been a nightmare with the Security System on my 2001 Grand Am. Six tows, a new BCM, a new fuel pump, and on and on at a cost of over $1500.00 and the problem still rears its ugly head.

    Every two-four months I will get in the vehicle and it won't start. Cranks but won't start. I finally refused to go back to the dealer as they refused to admit that the problem was the security system.

    That is until today when I called the service manager and again got in this discussion about this problem. I now have two young grand children and can see myself getting stranded out in the middle of nowhere because of the fact that GM Pontiac does not fix this problem once and for all. I am scared to death of being stranded with a car that won't start. I love my grand am and will not get rid of it but I will go to court if necessary to get restitution and results if necessary.

    Please let me know what, when and where and I will gladly join the cause for resolution in this matter.
  • feverbelieverfeverbeliever Member Posts: 9
    I can't see if anyone has filed a class action suit as yet. Can you help me to determine how this can be done. Obviously there are more people out there with this security system problem then I could ever imagine. My daughter sent me this websight today thank heavens for little girls.

    My 2001 Grand Am has starnded me five times in the past two years and I am sick of the dealership and GM not taking action to correct this problem. I even had a new lock cylinder put in the vehicle in March just to have the same thing happen again this past Sunday. This was the fifth time. $240.00 in tow bills and over $1000 in repairs and I am still stuck. HELP!!!!!!!!!!
  • burdawgburdawg Member Posts: 1,524
    When you have these problems, does the security light flash off and on?
  • feverbelieverfeverbeliever Member Posts: 9
    Yes, my security light comes on and stays on but the car still starts. Then overnight (sometimes) it must relearn itself and the security light is out. Within a day or two a gives me the no crank and off it goes on the tow truck.

    It was hard to tell what relationship the security light had to the starting problem for awhile. Now after two years I find out it obviously thinks someone or something is tampering with the system and shuts it down until it is either "relearned" by the repair shop or does it by itself in a matter of hours and sometimes days or sometimes not at all.

    Its hard to believe the genious service techs at the dealership cannot figure what this is or what to do about it for a permanent fix. I can't keep incurring these costs.

    Your situation seems to be the same. What have they told you and what steps have you taken? I forgot what year your vehicle is???
  • burdawgburdawg Member Posts: 1,524
    I had a big long reply wrote out about how Passlock works and about how some of your symptoms and repairs that have been attempted don't make sense. Suffice it to say that I hit the wrong combination of keys and lost it all.
    Anyway, I think you need to find a different dealer or repair shop to diagnose and repair it, if that's what your aim is.
    I had a Passlock failure on the 99SE I had, which was the Hall effect sensor on the ignition switch (easily 95% of the problems). It took my local dealer about 20 minutes to diagnose and about an hour to repair. I left $325 poorer, but that prompted me to educate myself about the system and found out I could have repaired it myself. So I guess the education cost me $325 in essence.
    That doesn't sound like your problem though based on your symptoms.
  • feverbelieverfeverbeliever Member Posts: 9
    Sorry I wasn't clear on the repairs that had been done previously. The first three attempts were at the dealership which consisted of: 1st time fuel pump 2nd time BCM replacement: 3rd time was out of state and it started by itself after stiling all night,4th time I was locally so I took it to a different place and they replaced the ignition lock and relearned the program 6th time the independent shop just relearned the program and threw up there hands stating, "they have no clue as to the reason it does this."

    So.....today I went to the dealership and had a long face to face with the service manager. He says his experience has been the BCM, the lock cylinder, or a wiring harness. He admitted with embarrassment that since everything but the wiring harness had been done to my vehicle we were running out of "guesses", I meant options.

    He is going to take it in free of charge this weekend and keep it monday and get to the root of the problem if at all possible. Not going to cost me a cent,so he says. He admits other have had the same problem. Interesting that it has taken 2 1/2 years for them to fess up to the fact that there is a real problem that they probably don't know how to solve. Go figure!!!

    I will let you know after I get the vehicle back on Monday and advise what is the final conclusion.
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