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Pontiac Grand Am Security Passlock Problems

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Comments

  • befohobefoho Member Posts: 1
    Wow! Thank you so much for taking the time to post this! You saved my husband a lot of work. I only wish I had know this easy fix last time this crap happened! Wanna buy a grand am? Hehehe!! Thanks again!
  • lilyannalilyanna Member Posts: 2
    Hello!

    I just inherited a 2004 Pontiac Grand AM 3.4 from my grandmother who rarely used it, its got 40K miles on it. Yesterday the car wouldn't start and I had it towed to the mechanic. Last night I read your very helpful description of how to deal with the Pontiac Security Problems and I went to the mechanic this morning to see if this might be the issue. When I got there they had gotten the car to start again and it was working fine, the mechanic said that he started it by manually grounding the PCM, but he didn't think that it was a passlock problem because he said that the security light on the car wasn't on, even though I remember the security light being on when I had the car towed. In addition he said that everything else, all the wiring, new battery, etc. was working fine. He said that I need to replace the PCM and is going to charge me $1200 to do it, $800 for the part, $150 for the work and another $150 to reprogram it.

    I am a new car owner and don't know too much about cars, but is the PCM the same thing as the BCM that you are talking about in your post? Is it possible that its still a passlock problem? Or is this just my wishful thinking? We most definitely cannot afford to spend $1200 so the car will probably not get fixed.

    Thanks so much!
  • lovemygrandamlovemygrandam Member Posts: 330
    The PCM is the "Powertrain Control Module", and it is a very expensive part, so his estimate for replacing it is reasonable, but....
    There is no place in the service manual that refers to "Grounding the PCM". In order to work on the PCM, the service technician needs to have two electronic items.... a Tech 2 Scan tool, and a Techline Terminal. These items are needed for the Powertrain Control Module (or Engine Control Module) to learn the variations of the Crankshaft Position Sensor, and also so the new PCM can learn the correct data code for the Theft Deterrent System. (the password sent by the Body Control Module) I would not feel comfortable having my PCM replaced by a mechanic who did not own those items, and I would certainly ask what he means by "grounding the PCM???"
    If the car is now running, why not take it back and drive it, and see if it runs ok, without any "Check Engine" lights coming on. If it does, keep driving it. If it should quit on you, be very observant of the dash lights that are on, and have a mechanic read the trouble codes from the ALDL connector... or you can buy a scan tool that will connect to your smartphone that allows you to read the trouble codes yourself. [on the internet, look up "ELM-327" scan tool]
    It would be a rare thing for the PCM to go bad on a car with only 40000 miles, and if it did, it should be covered by warranty, since the Environmental Protection Agency requires that all vehicles pass emission testing for at least 50000 miles. The PCM monitors all the emissions sensors, and tunes the fuel supply to insure that emissions are at a minimum.
    I hope this information helps you make an informed decision. Your vehicle is certainly worth keeping, but I would get a second opinion from a second reliable technician before replacing the PCM.
  • lilyannalilyanna Member Posts: 2
    thank yo so so much! this was really helpful!!
  • bholladaybholladay Member Posts: 1
    I have a 2003 Pontiac grand am 3.4 and recently had problems where car wouldn't crank. I bought the car in 04 used. The security light has been on for years due to installing a remote start but removed it later and never had any problems with it. So I had it towed and mechanic said it was ignition lock cylinder and replaced it. Due to security passlock the light had to be fixed before the new ignition could be programmed. Somehow they got it fixed but now when I turn air on the doors lock and unlock. Sometimes the gauges work and other times they don't. Lights come on by themselves without anyone being in car or it having key in ignition. Oil gauge needle jumps up and down when car not on and no key in ignition and the air compressor clutch fuse (A/C BFC) keeps blowing. And today when put car in reverse pressing gas petal didn't do anything. Turned car off and cranked back up and worked fine again. Anyone ever had these problems or have any clue what is going on or how to fix it?
  • lltaltonlltalton Member Posts: 4
    I live in Michigan and is having the same issues as everyone else with my car not starting once it sits overnight but once I do get it started I have no issues throughout the day. Was told by the dealership that I need an ignition but will that solve the problem? Got a new fuel pump put on the car and the security light stays on. I go thru the steps to get it to start sometimes it does other times it doesn't start till later on in the day. HELPPPPPPPPP
  • jlsummejlsumme Member Posts: 9
    I did the new ignition switch/key replacement on a 2003 Alero and has worked fine in the last 6 mths, after a year of towing it 3 times and do it yourself tricks that did not work. The problem lies in the security computer system which is way to sensitive and fragile. All of the problems lie in the ignition switch and the body control module (BCM). The BCM is easy to replace under the glove box and can be found at the local junk yard at a cheap price. The ignition switch may take a knowledgeable mechanic though. These cars were over engineered with a non-bullet proof computer system. Find a shade tree mechanic to quote you a price, then call a GM dealer. I would try the BCM module first due to it being cheaper and a DIY project. If your key is really loose in the ignition, it should be really tight and not free turning, then it could be your ignition switch. Key should go in tight like a house key.
  • lovemygrandamlovemygrandam Member Posts: 330
    jlsumme,
    Your information about the things that cause the passlock problem are for the most part correct. The security system is too fragile, but not because of the computer system. In general, the Body Control Module is seldom the cause of the problem. The weak link is the Passlock circuit which is embedded in the ignition module. This module can fail for several reasons:
    * wear of mechanical parts, causing the magnetic switch to fluctuate in resistance.
    * lubricant in the mechanical switch causes metal particles to collect near the moving magnet, causing the magnetic switch to fail to operate properly.
    * poor quality connectors in the three signal wires that form part of the Passlock circuitry.

    The software engineers at GM took great pains to insure that none of the possible failure modes would cause a running vehicle to stall while driving, as this would have constituted a safety hazard. Additionally, they provided a work-around that would save the customer from a "walk home" condition with the 10 minute relearn procedure, which is clearly described in the vehicle owner's manuals.

    The easiest fix for this problem is the bypass described at http://www.bergerweb.net/PasslockFix This fix takes less than $5.00 worth of parts, and can be done in 20 minutes by anyone who can follow instructions and has a rudimentary understanding of electricity.
    While the BCM is easy to replace, the cost of replacing it will be much more than you would expect. Each BCM is programmed at the factory to match the electrical components in the body of the vehicle, which varies depending on the options installed. When a different BCM is installed on a vehicle, it must be programmed to recognize such things as:
    * does this vehicle have Remote Keyless Entry?
    * How many Remotes does the owner have?
    * Are there electric windows, or manual windows?
    * What kind of radio is installed
    * Must learn the correct theft code to enable the radio
    * must learn the correct value transmitted by the Passlock module.
    * must synchronize the Anti-Theft password with the Powertrain Control Module
    * many more.
    To program a new BCM, the vehicle must be brought to the dealer, who has the required terminal and Tech II scan tool. The programming part of the installation is specified in the shop manual as a 0.6 hour charge, so be prepared to pay about $75 for that service.

    In summary, I would not advise anyone to try replacing the BCM themselves, as this is not the most likely problem, and would cost more than you expect to get the vehicle running again. Only after trying the cheap bypass trick in the above link, should you consider having the BCM replaced.

    Also, don't worry if your key is a bit loose in the ignition switch. The key does nothing more than allow you to turn the cylinder in the lock. There is no circuitry associated with the key.

    R Berger
    Engineering Staff
    General Motors Proving Ground
    Milford, Michigan
  • lltaltonlltalton Member Posts: 4
    Just found out I have a parasitic draw on my BCM which is draining my battery. I need a keyfob or maybe a key with a chip in it to disable the security system. Thanks for the info!
  • lovemygrandamlovemygrandam Member Posts: 330
    litalton,
    Your 2003 Grand Am DOES NOT take a key with a chip in it. It uses a normal Ace Hardware key, with no embedded electronics.
    The Passlock System can not be disabled by a key fob. If you have had some other security system installed on your vehicle, such as an alarm, you may need a keyfob to disable it, but the Passlock system doesn't operate that way.
    Your symptoms do indicate some sort of parasitic draw from your battery. How did you relate that to the BCM?
  • lltaltonlltalton Member Posts: 4
    YOU ARE CORRECT.... I had a parasitic draw on my BCM which in turn was draining my battery! A mechanic figured that out. My car is at the dealership getting a key fob programmed. I'm in the metropolitan Detroit area. I really appreciate your help and expertise!!! Thank you sooooo much!!!!
  • lltaltonlltalton Member Posts: 4
    He also said something about the BFC Circuit..... what does THAT mean?
  • trailblazer03trailblazer03 Member Posts: 1
    I have been working on a 05 grand am with the v6 in it. I have already changed the ignition lock cylinder taken it to the dealership and had them reprogram the passlock system. The car ran great for about 2 hours then went into emergency shut down mode. A/C shut off then the radio and instrument cluster. about 3-5 mins later the car died. had the starter checked shows good. Jumped the car off started right up. took the cables off and it went into emergency mode again. checked the alternator it shows good to. Guy at autozone said that the ignition assembly not the cylinder but the part it fits into is most likely bad not allowing it to charge the battery. All the wiring looks good has a new battery. wondering if i replace this part will i again have to pay 100 bucks to have it reprogrammed again and is there anything else this could be.
  • lovemygrandamlovemygrandam Member Posts: 330
    I think you may be in the wrong forum. None of your symptoms seem to be related to the Passlock system.
  • burdawgburdawg Member Posts: 1,524
    " Guy at autozone said that the ignition assembly not the cylinder but the part it fits into is most likely bad not allowing it to charge the battery"
    There's one of your problems right there. Don't pay too much attention to the Autozone guy for troubleshooting advice. With that said, I would suspect the ignition switch based on your description.
    What is the battery voltage when the battery is at rest (engine not running)?
    I agree though that this doesn't sound like it has anything to do with passlock.
  • lovemygrandamlovemygrandam Member Posts: 330
    I have no idea what a BFC circuit is. There is nothing in my Service manual that has those Initials. You should ask your mechanic what "BFC" stands for. I think he's bull**it-ing you. By "Key-Fob", do you mean a Remote Keyless Entry Transmitter? If so, it is not the "Key Fob" that gets programmed. The BCM gets programmed to accept the code transmitted by the RKE Transmitter. If you needed a new BCM, that should be covered under the charge for installing and programming the BCM. What Dealership did you use... GM, Chevrolet, Buick, or Cadillac? (There aren't any Pontiac dealers anymore.)
    My Chevrolet Dealer in Fenton, MI. charges $25 to reprogram the BCM to accept two new Remote Keyless Entry Fobs.
  • jonilbjonilb Member Posts: 4
    I too have had random episodes of Passlock activation/lock out but there is now a new wrinkle, don't know if its connected to this or not ... when I start the car, initially for about 8 seconds the a/c, radio, door locks will not function yet the car has started. then all the gauges peg over to the left and all dash light symbols appear, the gauges go back to resting point and then everything else (a/c, radio, door locks) will function. Also while I am driving, the same thing will happen but the car does not stall, just the gauges peg, dash syumbols display and the other stuff I mentioned stops for a couple seconds yet the car keeps running. Sometimes it will do this several times while I am driving. I love my Grand Am but if this is too costly to repair I will have to give it up :-( I also have one hell of a shaking/vibration while idling at a stop. Any help/ideas for me?
  • cbailey2cbailey2 Member Posts: 3
    I removed the radio out of my grand am 2000 while it was off. I went to start the car and got nothing at all...no crank, just power...So I guess this is another security feature. ( from reading this forum) After that I try the security light feature and get nothing. Next I notice there is a remote starter installed between the Ignition switch and engine (DEI 555l) I bought the car used so I had no clue.
    I tried putting the radio back into the car and got the same result, all I could achieve was turning on the the power. But, another weird thing I noticed is now the key slide right out of the cylinder while it is in the "on" and "acc" position. Could this point to a bad cylinder? aswell as security issue.?

    Thanks in advance. Hope someone has an answer for me...its been a weekend nightmare.
  • windycitylindawindycitylinda Member Posts: 1
    I have a 2003 Grand Am v6. I am used to the issues with the security system where you turn the key and get nothing. But for the last month I have been having problems with cranking but not starting. Now if I can get it to start on the seventh or eighth try it sometimes dies out. I have taken it to my mechanic who kept it for five days and it started right up everytime they tried it and never died out. When hooked up to the machine there are no error codes. So they think its a security issue but are not sure. So basically I got a new key and was told good luck we cant figure it out as long as it starts. I dont know where to turn or what to do. I would appreciate any answers anyone could give me,
    Thank
    Linda
  • burdawgburdawg Member Posts: 1,524
    When you "turn the key and get nothing" do you mean it cranks but won't start?
    Is the "security" light flashing when this occurs?
  • cbailey2cbailey2 Member Posts: 3
    When I turn the key, there is no crank. Power comes on, and I can here the car engaging as normal. But once I try to crank the engine...Nothing....absolute nothing..no crank at all...
    Also, the security light is not flashing at all.
    I talked to a local technician and it maybe the ignition switch...the key slides right out of the cylinder when set to on position. Its strange.
    If you have any input please share...Im going to start at the ignition switch though and work from there
  • lovemygrandamlovemygrandam Member Posts: 330
    Your issue is not with the Passlock system. It could be one of two problems:
    1. When removing the radio, somehow you disturbed the wiring that was installed for the remote starter, in which case, you will probably have to take the car back to the people who installed the security system. In my experience, these installers are not electronic savy people... usually just someone trained to follow instructions to the letter, and not very good at diagnosing problems. Your best bet is to ask the security system installer for schematics of the installation for your vehicle, and then troubleshoot the problem yourself.
    2. Your Park/Neutral switch may be out of adjustment. As you try to get the car to crank, try wiggling your gearshift lever, and see if that allows your starter motor to operate. (On stick shift, you must have your clutch pedal to the floor for the starter to operate)

    The operation of the starter motor is not related to the Passlock system. You will find a wiring diagram of the starter system at:
    http://www.bergerweb.net/graphics/Starting-Charging-Wiring.gif
    This will allow you to troubleshoot the no-crank situation. Let us know what you find out.

    If your key can be removed in any position other than OFF, then damage has been done to your ignition cylinder, and you should probably replace it. My guess is someone tried to steal your car, but you were unlucky, and they didn't succeed. (dark humor)
  • lovemygrandamlovemygrandam Member Posts: 330
    Judging by your symptoms, you are not having a security issue. If you were, the security light would be either ON or BLINKING. Also, if you could turn the ignition switch to the on and the start position, there was nothing wrong with your key. THE KEY in all 2000 - 2004 Grand Am's is passive. It has no electrical connection to the vehicle whatsoever. It's only purpose is to align the tumblers so that you can rotate the switch.
    Do this:

    1. Turn the ignition switch to the run position. Wait until the bulb check is finished. (about 3-5 seconds) At that time, the "SECURITY" lamp should be out.
    2. Turn the ignition switch to the START position. The engine should crank, and within a couple of seconds, it should begin to run.

    If the engine does not fire up, you have one of three problems:
    A. There is no fuel being delivered to the injectors, or the injectors are not operating properly.
    B. There is no spark at the spark plugs, so the fuel is not igniting.
    C. The timing is incorrect.

    Check to see which one is your problem, and you will be able to repair your problem.
  • sarakammeraadsarakammeraad Member Posts: 1
    So, I found many many things indicating that what's wrong with my car is the Passlock system. I tried the relearn process multiple times did it exactly. Maybe worked for 1 day, if that actually did anything. Same day changed the fuel filter, the battery, and brakes drums and a brake line. And of course Prayed. The only reason I'm questioning the Passlock not being the problem is because the theft system light comes on as I turn the engine over I leave the key in the on position and wait no matter how long that light never went off. When I'm driving it is off. When the car won't start and I return it to on but not running position it blinks 5 times, stops blinking then stays on forever. My symptoms are the same but the fix isn't exactly helping. I will be trying to bypass the system as recommended, but I want to know if there is anything else, anything, that could cause the same start and die out in secs. Fuel pump is good btw. Oh and sometimes when I do get it started and drive it the ABS light comes on and I am unable to get the ETS off light to go off. And I feel that these things might be related. I had the everything brake related done today. I did not expect the ABS light to come on at all. :(
  • lovemygrandamlovemygrandam Member Posts: 330
    Judging by your symptoms, I would say you probably have a poor connection or a broken wire, or an intermittent short in the passlock wiring that runs between your ignition switch and the Body Control Module. I can't think of anything else that would cause this irregular pattern of your "Security" light. (I'm assuming that by "theft system light" you are referring to the "Security" light.) If you try to bypass the Passlock system, I would suggest you use the procedure at http://www.bergerweb.net/grandamsecurityfix.htm . That way, you will be bypassing not only the Passlock module in the ignition switch, but also the three wires that connect it to the Body Control Module.
    Your ETS and ABS systems can be effected by dirt and grime in the front brakes. There are wheel speed sensors in that area, and dirt can cause them to send incorrect speed signals to the computer system. I believe that is controlled by the powertrain control module, so it would not have any effect on the Passlock system.
    You didn't say what model vehicle you have. The Passlock system is used on the following cars:
    1999 - 2004 Oldsmobile Alero
    1997 - 2003 Chevrolet Malibu
    1999 - 2004 Pontiac Grand Am
    And several GM Trucks
  • allybethany1allybethany1 Member Posts: 1
    We have a 97 Grand Am GT. We have recently had a few events where the car acted like it did not want to start. However, today it decided it really wasn't going to start.

    First of all, we never lock our car doors. We figure if someone wants to steal our hunk of junk, they are more than welcome to, so when I went to leave for store today I noticed my car doors were locked. So that was pretty odd, next when I got in the car I noticed the brake pedal went all the way to the floor with no pressure behind it at all. It was very noticeable and at first I thought I had no brakes, but after testing them, they worked but still no pressure behind them.

    I stopped at the gas station to fill up and when I went to leave, my car refused to crank. It would act like it was about to turn over and I would try to give it gas, but it would not turn over long enough for me to even do that. I sat for about 20 min trying and nothing, so I pushed it to a spot and called someone to pick me up. Locked the doors and let it sit for an hour. I came back and tried to unlock the driver side door but it would not unlock with my key. I went to passenger side which is no longer controlled by the auto lock feature and got in.

    We once again tried to turn it over but nothing. Something we noticed during was the theft lock warning light nonstop flashing, so this is making us think it is an issue with the theft lock.

    I definitely don't have the money to put this car in the shop and it is our only car, so I am hoping someone can help me figure out what I can do. Is there anything we can do to get it to turn over. I have read things for other cars about letting the key sit in the on position for 15 minutes and then it should crank, but I don't know if that would work on a Pontiac. Any tips would be greatly appreciated.
  • lovemygrandamlovemygrandam Member Posts: 330
    edited August 2013
    It would act like it was about to turn over and I would try to give it gas, but it would not turn over long enough for me to even do that.

    This symptom indicates either a weak battery, or a poor connection to the battery. With a reasonably strong battery, your starter should be able to turn over the engine for at least 60 seconds. A weak battery could also cause an improper signal from the security system, which may cause the theft lock warning light to blink. Also, I have had experience with other GM cars locking the doors when the battery was low.
    Disconnect the battery cables from the battery, and check to see if there is corrosion on the contacting surfaces. Once you make sure they are clean, re-connect the cables to the battery, and try starting again. If that doesn't work, make sure the battery is fully charged. Leave the charger connected to the battery, and turn on the ignition. If the theft lock light is blinking, let the car sit with the ignition switch in the on position for at least 15 minutes. The theft lock light should extinguish. Then you should turn the ignition to the off position, let it set for a few seconds. Turn ignition to on for a second or two, then turn it to crank position. The car should start, and the security light should be off. Note that when you first turn the ignition switch from off to on, the vehicle will perform a "lamp check" for a few seconds. During that time, all the warning lights on your dash will be on. This is normal. After the lamp check, only the Oil pressure, battery, seat belt, and ServiceEngineSoon lights will be on. These should extinguish once you crank the engine.
  • mkeddymkeddy Member Posts: 1
    I cant figure system out here. But I have 2003 Grand Am starts fine after 15 minutes shuts off. 15 minutes later it will start back up. But it will shut down whether driving down the road or idling in driveway. When it shuts down seems like no spark or fuel. It does this every 15 minutes please help very frustrating.
  • jonilbjonilb Member Posts: 4
    edited August 2013
    I was having similar issues, at times the car would crank but not start, then the red "security" light would flash on the console. After a 10 minute wait, the light would stop flashing and the car would start. This "10 minute rule" seems to be a common remedy for this when it occurs. While driving, all my gauges on the console would peg all the way to the left and then go back. Since I had been told a "bad key" could trip the passlock system, I also tried just getting a new key as my key was 13 years old and worn, but continued to have issues. I did a LOT of reading up on this and in the majority of "suggested fixes," replacing the ignition switch seemed to be the most recommended. So a week ago I did replace my ignition switch--cost about 425.00 where I took it here in Tucson. So far so good, no random "lock out" or weird gauge activity has occured so hopefully this resolved it.
  • lovemygrandamlovemygrandam Member Posts: 330
    jonilb,

    Spending $425 on a new ignition switch was a waste of money for you. Go back to the beginning of this thread (just before the first post on this page) and click on the link labeled "GM Security Passlock Fix"

    This FIX is mentioned at least 20 times in this thread. I'm surprised that anyone would have missed this after finding this forum.
  • swee_teaswee_tea Member Posts: 1
    Bypassed passlock an 03 grand am. Worked fine for a couple days no problem....now it won't stay started. The car starts and tries to stay started but something is shutting it off. Can anyone advise?? I've been through the ACC method for months and finally decided to use a resistor.. I don't understand why it is no longer staying started. Is this related to the ohm resistor?
    Am so lost...
  • vickiknowsvickiknows Member Posts: 1
    I am in the same position ALL of you are in. I can't believe that this is a known issue and there has been no reccall to fix it. I am about to dump this car and get another make. Pontiac can suck [non-permissible content removed] because no one in my family will ever own one now!
  • jonilbjonilb Member Posts: 4
    I have read about the "passlock fix" in many other articles and I have also read many stories of cases where it did not work. I actually did call a few garages to see if they would do that procedure and got no takers. I am not a fan of having the "neighborhood mechanic" as it were, work on my car as you get no warranty on their work and have no recourse if something goes wrong. That 425.00 not only has fixed my problem but it bought me piece of mind knowing that if anything went awry with the repair I at least had someone to go to about it. If someone is mechanically inclined and able to do the "fix" themselves or you have someone you know and trust with your car, fine. But that was not my case.
  • cbailey2cbailey2 Member Posts: 3
    Found the resolution to all my issues....Turns out I had a bad tumbler....I wiggled the F*$K out of the key and used liquid graphite and BOOM...som [non-permissible content removed] cranked and turned over....looks like Imma have to put a new ignition switch in it...Till then...its started ha
  • brohdawbrohdaw Member Posts: 1
    I have already followed the instructions on Berger website and so many other things and nothing is working...this is like the 5th website I have posted to, that's how bad it is; I can not figure it out!!! (Bare with the text below, i was rather angry when I typed it up)
    Okay, unlike most people, I think we’re the only ones on Earth that had a problem with the security light being solid as opposed to flashing. I was debating on the toggle but ended up doing the bypass using a resistor. Well one store, I won’t mention which one, gave me the wrong resistor twice (first a 220 ohms, then a 22000 ohms) so it wasn’t working, although I didn’t know they made a mistake twice until reading the receipt (the package said 22K ohms and I was thinking 22 kohms, not 22 (thousand), wasn’t thinking about the decimal [2.2]) – don’t know if it will even work now that we tried it without realizing the 22000 ohm; we had it hooked up and everything and I’m not sure what it would or has done to it. Could I really be part of the small percentage again that this wouldn’t work for??? I am at my wits end because I went back and decided to measure for the ohms and it seems like the yellow wire is getting nothing unless I’m doing something wrong! Then I learned about doing it with a terminal switch a little too late. At one point I almost had it without knowing by turning the key to “on” and barely pushing it to “start” – this would turn the security light off but I didn’t read much on it because that didn’t come up much so I figured it wasn’t a fix. I was excited at first but doing it wrong, it never started my car and I didn’t find another resource of doing it that way until *after* cutting the wires! This has been nothing but a major headache for us and we can’t afford a shop!! We are doing all this by the kick panel on the passenger’s side of the car but we looked under the stereo too out of curiosity and nothing moves under there, it’s too tight; the wires are snug in their place!!
    When I test the black wire and the yellow wire (coming from the ignition) there is NO ohm reading, doesn’t change the meter at all! I cannot get to the wiring behind the stereo, literally seems like you have to remove the dashboard – not happening on this end until I get absolute no other answers. Did GM really make it this impossible for the OWNER to use his/her own car!!! How dumb can they be????
  • jonilbjonilb Member Posts: 4
    well even though lovemygrandam scoffed at me spending the money to have my ignition switch replaced rather than trying the bypass process, i can tell you...my passlock problem has stopped since i replaced the ignition switch. yes it was relatively expensive but judging from what you have gone through i feel it was a good decision.
  • jlsummejlsumme Member Posts: 9
    lovemygrandam also got on me but he's the best at letting us know what to do. The new ignition switch has worked great until recently. Half of the time it will start right up but if it doesn't you have to turn the key all the way to start then VERY VERY SLOWLY turn it back until it activates the starter. Hope this helps guys.
  • lovemygrandamlovemygrandam Member Posts: 330
    edited August 2013
    Your rant is useless. Pontiac cars are no longer produced, so it's going to be hard to boycott them. By the way, we may be able to help if you let us know which year, make and model Pontiac, and which engine you have.
  • lovemygrandamlovemygrandam Member Posts: 330
    Sounds like you no longer have a Passlock problem. Your symptoms indicate one of three problems:
    * Incorrect spark or valve timing
    * Weak spark, or no spark on half the cylinders
    * Insufficient fuel flow to maintain engine rpm.

    Any one of these three can cause the symptoms you are having. If your "Security" lite is not lit, you have solved your Passlock issue, and need to try other solutions. I would start with a new fuel filter. Then check for good fuel pressure, then for proper ignition. and timing. A bad crankshaft position sensor can also cause the problems you are having. Please post back with the engine you have in your vehicle.
    R. Berger
  • lovemygrandamlovemygrandam Member Posts: 330
    jonilb,
    Sorry for having sounded harsh about your passlock problem and the solution you chose. I completely understand your apprehension about using what most would call a "Shadetree mechanic" approach to solving your problem. My main reason for staying in touch with this forum is to help those who are not willing to invest $450 to repair a car whose value is less than $2000, and are looking for an alternative.
    I would advise you to keep your receipts. Many people who have posted here, and on other forums have had the dealer fix their problem, only to have it re-occur within 6-10 months. Also, most dealers, when encountering this problem, will replace the ignition switch first, and not bother to check for broken or intermittent wiring in the dashboard area. At any rate, please accept my apology for my harsh wording, and good luck.
  • lovemygrandamlovemygrandam Member Posts: 330
    Please post back with the Year, Make, and Model of your vehicle, and the engine size. Also, please let us know which of the three bypass procedures you used. There are three of them on my website:

    http://www.bergerweb.net/grandamsecurityfix.htm

    http://bergerweb.net/PasslockFix/index.shtml

    http://bergerweb.net/AleroSecurity/index.shtml

    Please note: I have done these modifications on...
    8 2002 Pontiac Grand Am's
    3 Olds Alero's 2001, 2003
    1 2000 Chevy Malibu

    Alll of them have worked, but each mod was performed on cars that had been having the passlock problem, but the 10 minute relearn procedure would work.
    When the Security lamp is on solid, it means that the Body Control Module has gone into the "Fail Enable" mode, meaning that there is "something" wrong with the Passlock system.

    A quick note:
    When you turn the ignition to ON, the BCM performs a Lamp Check, during which time ALL of the warning lights on the dash should be on. After the initial 3-5 seconds, all the lights should extinguish except the Oil, Battery, Service Engine Soon, and Seatbelt lamps
  • laurelslaurels Member Posts: 2
    Hi,
    I have a 1998 Grand AM SE 2.4 cylinder vehicle. Will any of these tutorials work? They all look like they are for 1999 and later vehicles?

    If they won't work do you know where I can find one that will?
    Thanks
  • lovemygrandamlovemygrandam Member Posts: 330
    I do not know if the tutorials on my website will work on a 1998 Grand Am. If you have a service manual for your vehicle you could look at the Theft deterrent circuit in your manual and see if it is similar to the one that I have posted at the bottom of:
    http://bergerweb.net/PasslockFix/index.shtml
    You can subscribe to online shop manuals for around $27.00 at Alldatadiy.com
  • ellis18ellis18 Member Posts: 1
    I have an 01 grand am se with 4 cylinder twin cam. Lately been having problems with the security light and the car not wanting to start. Now it's been a couple weeks later and when I start the car it idles really bad jumping rpms, sputtering barely wanting to stay running, car stalls out sometimes when I stop at an intersection and go to take off it just shuts off also been noticing it's been terrible on gas like went 50 miles and went through half a tank. No clue what's going on, anybody got a solution or at least tell me what's going on?
  • lovemygrandamlovemygrandam Member Posts: 330
    ellis18,
    Your problem seems to have more to do with ignition, rather than a Passlock problem. My first instinct would be to have a mechanic check your ignition modules. (you have two of them, each serving two cylinders.) If one ignition module or coil is defective or intermittent, it will cause the symptoms you are experiencing.
    You may also have a defective, or intermittent crankshaft position sensor.
    Normally, I would also suspect a clogged fuel filter, or a defective fuel pump, but it's doubtful that either of these would cause your fuel consumption to jump so high.
    Have your mechanic also check to make sure your valve timing is correct.

    The passlock system, when activated, will keep your engine from running at all. Sincy your car runs, there must be some other problem causing your poor performance. Hope this helps.
  • jrandall1jrandall1 Member Posts: 2
    Greetings,

    I posted this in another section but this seems to be more on topic.

    Got in my 2002 Grand AM that had been running. Acts like the known security problem where it will starts for a couple seconds and quits. At same time the dome light, radio, and door locks stopped working. Battery has juice and I did the waiting 10 minutes security fix so well documented on the internet but didn't fix the problem. Took a while but the battery finally died but I jumped it and again tries to start but dies right away. Still no dome light, radio, and door locks. Didn't change anything.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Jim
  • lovemygrandamlovemygrandam Member Posts: 330
    You didn't say whether your "Security" light is flashing when this happens. If it is not, then the problem is not the Passlock problem. The symptoms seem to indicate something wrong with your Body Control Module, or the wiring associated with it. The Body Control Module controls all three of the items you are having problems with.
    Your engine symptoms indicate a lack of sufficient fuel delivery. Either a clogged fuel filter, or weak fuel pump will cause that. When the passlock system activates, you only get a momentary start the first time it happens. From then on, it will not fire up at all.... not even momentarily, until you perform the 10 minute reset, and your "Security" Light is extinguished.
  • jrandall1jrandall1 Member Posts: 2
    Thanks for the reply. I did leave off that the security light has been on for about two years but hasn't been a problem other than for diagnotics as you suggest.

    The car does start for a few seconds more than once. Starts for a few seconds then doesn't the next maybe two times then it starts for a few seconds and the same patern continues on staring for a few seconds once in a while. Based on what you said about not starting for a few seconds more than once would rule out the security problem.

    I can hear the fuel pump start. So it is something that impacts getting enough gas while also effecting the dome light, radio, and door locks. So you suggested the BCM. Do you think it could possibly be the ignition switch?

    Thanks for your help.
    Jim
  • lovemygrandamlovemygrandam Member Posts: 330
    Do you think it could possibly be the ignition switch?

    Yes, a faulty ignition switch could be the problem, though it's likely that if it were the ignition switch, there would be other problems as well.
    The Ignition switch furnishes voltage to parts of the Body Control Module. Power for the Body Control Module is also supplied directly from the battery. There are also several fuses that furnish power to various relay circuits within the Body Control Module. I would advise you to check all your fuses to make sure they are good before replacing anything else.
    Here are links to four diagrams that may help you to trace your problems and find the fuses that could be causing your problems.
    http://bergerweb.net/graphics/UnderhoodFuseBlockLabel.gif
    http://bergerweb.net/graphics/BCM-Schematics1.gif
    http://bergerweb.net/graphics/BCM-Schematics2.gif
    http://bergerweb.net/graphics/BCM-Schematics3.gif

    I hope this helps. If you find out what your problem is, please post back.

    Dick B.
  • burdawgburdawg Member Posts: 1,524
    Dick,
    Thought you find this of interest. I just turned 142K on my 04Grand Am GT. It's never been in the shop for anything. Besides regular maintenance, I've changed the multifunction switch (myself) the water pump (myself, easy job on the V6). The water pump wasn't leaking that you could notice, but during the last oil change I looked up while changing the filter and noticed the tell tale signs of orange dexcool being slung around off the water pump pulley onto things close by, so I went ahead and changed the pump since it could be starting to dribble a little. The old pump did have a good amount of play in the shaft.
    I relined the brakes recently also, and this time I went ahead and changed the rear pads also (original pads) thinking that with those miles they must be low. After getting the calipers off though they could have easily gone another 20K or so. Since I had it apart I went ahead and put the new pads on.
    I can't complain, it's been one of the most reliable cars I've ever owned.
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