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Lincoln LS Steering and Suspension
Have an '01 LS V8 with 95k on it. When the car (and the suspension) is cold, I get a loud thud when driving over bumps. When the car is warmed up, the noise magically goes away.
That's how I explained it to the dealer, and after reading previous posts on the board, I asked them to check & replace the bushings.
Well, the prognosis was wrong, they're saying the ball joints are about shot, and were gracious enough to quote above $1500 to do the work.
But the tire wear is ok, there's no shimmy in the steering, and everything else seems ok. Have others with this many miles run into the same?
If I still lived in the pothole ridden Northeast I might agree, but Atlanta roads are much better.
Any thoughts / input appreciated, thanks.
That's how I explained it to the dealer, and after reading previous posts on the board, I asked them to check & replace the bushings.
Well, the prognosis was wrong, they're saying the ball joints are about shot, and were gracious enough to quote above $1500 to do the work.
But the tire wear is ok, there's no shimmy in the steering, and everything else seems ok. Have others with this many miles run into the same?
If I still lived in the pothole ridden Northeast I might agree, but Atlanta roads are much better.
Any thoughts / input appreciated, thanks.
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I had assumed all along it was the bushings, and it was. The parts are about $35 & it takes an hour or two to do (mine's a 6 -- the V8 may or may not be different). The dealer should be able to do these very quickly -- they get a lot of practice, and they're certainly done with the learning curve. My son & I had to figure some stuff out along the way and, even at that, it didn't take all that long.
I'd have the bushings done first. If the problem goes away, you're finished. If not, spend the rest of the money -- it's not one of these deals where "you're in there already, so let's do this too." They're entirely separate jobs, except for maybe taking off the bottom plastic shield.
Oh, and I'd certainly find another dealer -- these guys sound like ripoff artists (what! a crooked car dealer! Imagine!!). At least ask them how many hours they're going to charge for the bushing job & what the parts cost. It wouldn't hurt to get bids over the phone from as many dealers in your area as you're interested in contacting. I'm guessing you'll get out of this for a couple, three hundred dollars and the noise will go away.
The clunk is probably the sway bar bushings. Not sure about the shifter. What makes you think it isn't engaging D4?
The bushings for the forward sway bar are all that need to be replaced to make the "clunk" go away.
The parts are relatively inexpensive, but replacing them can take awhile, and there are things one learns when it's done the first time. It'll go more quickly next time.
As if more than 0.02% of the people driving the LS give a rip. I'm happy that you're one who does.
Drive happy (oh, wait, isn't it drive "well"). Anyway, drive however and enjoy your extinct vehicle.
The reason for replacing the bar is the old bushings will keep failing. The new bar has the bushings molded onto the bar. I need to do this on my 2000 as the bushings are squeaking.
I was able to buy just the bushings for the old bar, at least that's what the guy thinks he ordered. I haven't put em on yet. My bar is thumping and has been for quite some time.
Am I out to lunch or is it out of line for Ford to force people to pay $700 or $800 to get this new sway bar when apparently the old one had design problems? Strangely, Ford says driving with worn bushings and the old bar is not a safety issue.
What else is Ford going to say, given that the LS was cut loose completely earlier this year and their financial situation isn't exactly stunning (at least in the positive direction)?
Alienate an LS driver? Why, they'd never do that! Would they?
On the other hand, Merry Christmas to you all, and continue to enjoy your LS's, as best you can.
You can replace just the bushings, if you want. It's just that they will probably fail again, around the same mileage. I also have it on good authority (one of the Lincoln guys) that it really isn't a DIY job. Bruno did it a while ago and had all kinds of trouble. I'm just going to suck it up within the next couple of months and have mine done. Right now my bar is just squeaking horribly when it's cold out.
morrijl,
The ball joints were never recalled. The only recall on the LS was to check the torque on the ball joint nut. My bet is the stabilizer bar bushings. I've been told it's a very tough do-it-yourself job.
It's my understanding that replacing the bar itself is very very difficult DIY, but the bushings are doable with reasonable effort. Say akin to getting a chrome lug nut off.:>)
Mike, are u saying the bushings are a horrible DIY job too?
TIA
Mine, too, but what does that have to do with the car?
Allen...
:P :P :P
The parts were under $40 & came with lubricant spread on them -- fairly straightforward replacement. It was well worth the effort to make the thump disappear.
Interesting to hear that FoMoCo is now unwilling to sell the bushings without the bar included, plus labour, of course.
Reading through this site, I assumed it was the sway bar thing. I went to the local Lincoln dealer.. they don't sell the old bushings anymore. They sell the new problem solver swaybar with bushings for $150 and the labor to do the job is $550. So a $700 dollar fix.
I said bah. I found the new problem solver sway bar online for $100 plus $20 shipping. I am somewhat of a mechanic. To do this job, one must remove the front subframe (pain), there are some other little retarded design quirks to deal with, but they present themselves obviously.
The new problem solver sway bar has wider bushings and brackets plus the bushings are crimped by the bracket much more throughly. I truly believe this new bar to be a real permanent problem solver.
This new bar/bushings fixed the clunking I used to hear, and it is like driving a 'new' car now.
The old factory bushings I removed were somewhat chewed up with little black chunks flaking off as I removed them. There were lube holding spaces fabricated into the old bushings and all were bone dry.
This sway bar job was a pain in the [non-permissible content removed] (weekend). Just know that merely replacing the old bushings with new ..old ones will be dramatically easier, but the problem will come back.
BTW, I'm a long time lurker on the LS boards since I bought my manual in Oct 00. I don't get on em much anymore, but its nice to see old names (heyjewel, akirby, cdnpinhead and others) I recall that I always enjoyed reading are still around. The car's been pretty good-only in the shop once since warranty expired for a coil pack. I'll miss the LS.
Yes, I'd love to hear more about the fix as my 80K manual LS has been clunking for a while. I ws able to buy the old style bushings but have yet to attempt to put them in.
If I could get the new bar, I might ask my mechanic to install it. I'm not convinced I have the moxie to attempt a job like that.
How many miles on your 00 manual, Ralph?
Overall, the car has been a real winner. I'd give it an 8 out of 10 for durability (points off for HVAC and front sway bar and lug nuts) an 8 out of 10 for performance (points off for 210 hp V6, man the new 3.5 litre would be nice under my hood) and an 8 out of 10 for overall style (points off for interior could have been a bit nicer. Exterior is a real sleeper beauty.)
Last, Id give Lincoln (Ford) about a 3 out of 10 for quality of service, level of customer care and support and support for the vehicle itself (IOW, they let it rot.)
Remove both front wheels, drop the passenger side shock and spring assy by unbolting the 3 bolts at the top of the shock tower, remove bolts from both driver and passenger side lower control arms as they are attached to the steel front crossmember, then remove the steel crossmember. Take the sway bar out from the passenger side (the lowering of the spring/shock assy on this side was to provide enough working room to enable this). Watch out for the lower radiator hose assy.. don't bash it getting the sway bar in/out.
Installation is reverse of removal. (Ahahaha, slap me.)
Make marks for all the positions of the suspension pieces you are removing, in the hope of retaining the suspension alignment you had before the job. It seems like I was able to keep my alignment roughly the same as before. I should take it ddown to the tire shop and have the front end realigned though.
I recommend a saturday to remove the bar and a sunday to replace it. Take it slow. This job is a pain in the [non-permissible content removed], as components are packaged tightly/stupidly around the swaybar.
I didn't do the new links.. they (in the end) had nothing to do with the squeeky/clunking I used to experience. In fact; when I almost had the old bar out, I moved it up and down... and there was that familiar sound of the bar squeeking/clunking against the torched stock sway bar bushings/brackets.
In retrospect, if I were able to obtain just the new bushings.. I would recommend just doing the bushings. The job would be ALOT easier, BUT they would eventually fail again.
Cheers!
and if it is the stabalizer bar where can i get the new one?
155,000 + miles.
5000 mine. I'm having a blast with it.
Unfortunately, when I changed all four struts, the lower ball joints are bad.
The ball joints are not supposes to move up and down 1/2" or more.
They are only supposed to pivot.
Somehow this does not seem to affect the drivability.
Sooner or latter it will fail.
I do not want to be anywhere near when this happens.
There is a recall on loose nuts, but this car was not on the recall list.
The problem is, not how to fix them, but Lincoln only sells the whole knuckle and not just the lower ball end.
A major dollar difference.
The design is a simple pressed ball joint.
I can not see any part number for the ball joint.
$200 plus dollars each knuckle.
Dammed them Design Engineers, Oops I are one.
Ps. I can find no aftermarket replacements.
I also remember reading in one of the messages that someone lost the whole wheel assembly. This would be my first thought about the cause.
Just something you all may need to know.
DC Rhoads
There is no doubt that maintainability was about 143rd on the list when the LS was designed. Assemblies are cheaper to design (pressed/welded/glued/riveted as opposed to bolted or screwed together) & stock as spares. They cost a fortune, but who (besides the poor sod who drives one past 100K miles) cares? Lots lease & those who buy often don't drive all that much.
Good luck.
Cheers, Ian
Cheers, Ian
Any tips on how to remove the assembly?
Cheers, Ian