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Comments
Thanks for the reply. I'd never heard of "converter lockup" but that describes what's happening perfectly.
After your post, I am beginning to wonder if they are confusing my issue with the hesitation issue that people are experiencing on the 5 speed automatic (4 cycl). I say this because I know there is a newer TSB out there for the shift flare that was released in June but I am hesitant to mention this to them...since THEY are the manufacturer and should be telling ME this information!! Anyway, like you, the service manager wants me to come by and reproduce the issue for him (even though they tell me there isn't anything else they can do). I am hesistant to do this too because, this time around, the shift flare is much less predictable. Anyway, we'll see what happens. I am going to try and video tape it if possible.
How often does the transmission fluid need to be changed on a 2007 V6 XLE Camry?
Is there a "fluid pan" on this transmission, and can the "fluid change" be accomplished by dropping the pan, as opposed to using flushing equipment?
When I had the 2003 Honda Accord, I would have this service done at least once a year, or every 20,000 miles which every came first! I will have about 22,000 miles on this vehicle in January 2008 (It's birthday)!
Best regards. ---- Dwayne :shades: :confuse:
I spoke to Toyota Motor Sales last week. They said there wasn't anything they can do. They asked if I wanted arbitration papwers. However, I know there is a new software update but didn't want to mention it to them because THEY should be the one telling me. I am hoping and praying I can get them to buy this car back because I have a strong suspicion that they have no idea what is causing the shift flare.
I know because I'm still fighting with Toyota to fix my car. It's very frustrating when the TSB says it will fix my car but nobody wants to do it.
Just be aware!
I know because I'm still fighting with Toyota to fix my car. It's very frustrating when the TSB says it will fix my car but nobody wants to do it.
Just be aware!
Would you mind summarizing (quickly) your situation for us? I know I would really appreciate seeing what you have tried doing, how many times Toyota has tried to fix your car, how arbitration went and what you are trying to do now?
This sounds like the dealer and Toyota are acting in collusion to avoid trying to fix your car because it would open them to the required number of efforts at fixing it for the lemon law. Surely that's illegal. Toyota wouldn't do anything like that, I would hope. I would think your local dealer would want to apply all possible fixes hoping to find one that works on your Toyota.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Am I to understand from your posting, that the fluid is NEVER changed in the V6 XLE Camry automatic transmission for the life of the vehicle? ------- If that is the case, what is considered to be the life of the vehicle, 100,000 miles? Something doesn't sound right with this concept! The automatic transmission fluid gets VERY hot, and over time it will break down! This is a major repair looking for a place to happen! If this is true, I am glad that I purchased a "top of the line" Toyota extended warranty.
Best regards. ------ Dwayne :shades: :sick: :confuse:
I have been experiencing some problems either with the transmission or the engine. When I start to accelerate sometimes, (usually in low speed) I have a 1-2 seconds that the car does not respond, and suddenly I feel a jolt and the car jumps.I reported this to the dealer and I was told there was not an update for that engine or transmission. The problem seems less after driving for a while. I am disappointed with this vehicle. I had an oil leak at the oil pan, which the dealer fixed after two trips. I'm wondering what's next. This is my third Camry and probably the last. My wife does not like to drive it. She would rather drive our Jeep Grand Cherokee.
TSB EG036-07
Not true. See post 496 for the actual TSB. It says all 2007s, including automatic AND manual transmission.
To be complete, that's not true either. Evidently, not all 2007s are covered by this TSB (i.e. not the V6 models) just the 4CYL models (MT or AT).
Please let us know how the reflashing holds up.
Thanks, chuck
Yes, I thank God that they were able to witness the shift flare.
Unfortunately, I spoke to soon. To summarize, we had the tranny replaced (TC002-07) in our 2007 Camry XLE V6 in April due to a 1000 rpm shift flare. Just yesterday, had the ECU re-flashed due to shift flare (TC007-07). Tonight, on our way to a movie, we experienced 2 shift flares - they were pretty signficant (600-800 rpms). The reflash definitely made it worse. So, I guess we are going to head back to the dealership. This next time, will be attempt #3 - even though I am not sure if there are any other TSBs for the shift flare.
The good thing is we are getting closer to a valid lemon law case! I am ready to dump this car, get a new car and get on with my life. This has taken up way too much of my time. If I didn't have a flexible job, there is no way I could have invested this much time in trying to get Toyota to fix their defective product. I would have been fired!!
i think people often forget the REAL cost of a problematic vehicle. the time and effort expended is worth real $$$.
i very much hope the dealership takes care of you, but if all they have to offer is the previous flash - it isn't looking good.
http://www.wcnc.com/consumer/stories/wcnc-jmn-091307-camry_story-no_tc.ce57a8a0.- html
Don't give up your fight. That's what Toyota wants.
Keep the word out on how they try to fix your car.
I wouldn'y recommend for anyone to buy a Camry until Tpyta says they have fixed the problem.
I am one of many regretful owners of a 2007 Toyota Camry LE 4 Cyl. I based my purchase solely on having owned a 2004 Camry LE 4 Cyl., which is a great car. The 2007, on the other hand is the worst piece of junk I've ever owned and I've been sorry I purchased it from the first day. I'll certainly never buy Toyota again and will gladly spread the reasons why to anyone that will listen. The transmission hesitates, the in-town mileage is horrible, and the radio is virtually useless. All of these opinions are in comparison to my 2004, which is responsive, economical, and one of the best cars I've ever owned. I've had the 2007 to the dealer, which of course is a waste of time since they never admit anything is a problem until at least after the warranty is up, and not even then if gagged by corporate. They simply say the vehicle is performing to factory specifications, which I guess must mean that the transmission should hesitate, the in-town mileage should be horrible, and the radio should be virtually useless. They also tell me there are no TSBs regarding the transmission problem and that they've never even heard of this problem before, but obviously they are either lying or are grossly incompetent (or both). So I do intend to unload this turkey ASAP, no doubt taking a loss in the process. But my main problem is that I don't know what to get instead, although I don't think I could do much worse even guessing. I figured that on this web site many others must be in the same boat and might have some recommendations. I want a car that is approximately the same size (the Honda Accord is too small) and the same price, but performs like the Camry used to. Possibly the Nissan Altima or a Hyundai Sonata? Any recommendations would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Ray
I have been following this problem since I purchased a 2007 V6 Camry in January. I understand the frustration with this issue on the part of the owners, and I believe the problem is "real," and it is a "dangerous" operating characteristic of the vehicle. Now having said that, I must also state that my 2007 V6 XLE Camry does not have the issue that is being described on this board. My vehicle now has 16,000 miles, and on a recent road trip I averaged 32 mpg on the highway at 55mph using 87 Getty gasoline. (I do not use my cruise control, as I like to be in control of the vehicle myself.)
I like the comfort and the ride of the V6 Camry. When I purchsed this vehicle, I also tested a four cylinder version of the Camry. I did not like the way the vehicle handled. It seemed TOO LIGHT on the road. I drove it on city streets, and on the highway doing 50mph. I took the vehicle on the same road course as the V6 Camry, so I had a basis of comparison! (I did not notice the transmission flare on the four cylinder Camry at the time of the test drive!)
QUESTIONS: ---- Do I believe that the "transmission problem" is real? ---------- YES! ---- Do I believe that Toyota can do something about it for the customers that have the problem? ---- YES! ---Do I believe that Toyota wants to do something about the problem? ----- NO!--- REASON:---- The "fix" for the problem is going to cost a "TON OF MONEY" for Toyota. I will bet that the 2008 Camry DOES NOT have the problem! ---Toyota, (like every other auto manufacturer), will drag their feet as long as possible, in the hope that the problem will go away. They will only take action, when there "bottom line" starts to hurt! This is the "sludge issue" all over again. Toyota claims that they have redesigned their V6 engine so that it does not produce "sludge"! I do not believe that claim, so I have my dealer change my oil and filter every 2,500 miles rather than at 5,000 miles. If my Camry, with an extended Toyota 100,000 mile warrnty, has a "sludge problem" in the future, Toyota will "eat" the cost of repair for this vehicle!!!!!!!!!!!!
I would not trade in this vehicle and take a loss. Rather, I would go to a magnetic sign company and advertize the operating characteristics of this vehicle. If the dealer states that "the vehicle is operating as designed", that means that the manufacturer is proud of their product, and that you, as the owner, should advertize this unique characteristic to the auto buying public. The following could be an example of that sign:------
"This new vehicle has a transmission problem
purchased at XYZ Toyota!
Ask me about it!"
If you choose to trade in your vehicle, I would recommend a Chevrolet Impala. But, I do not think that the V6 Impala gives the same fuel mileage on the highway as the V6 Camry. You could also look at the Ford 500 or the Mercury vehicle. I would not consider a Chrysler product. If you think Toyota is bad, you need to "check out" Chrysler. I would not go with the Sonata because of the resale value. If you are going to keep the vehicle for 100,000 miles it might be an option, but there is also the issue of dealerships. In my area of the country, there is only ONE "stand alone Hyundai dealer". Most are part of Chrysler dealers as a second product line. (NEED I SAY MORE!!!!!!!)
I like my Camry, and I like the way it rides and performs. Prior to purchasing this vehicle, I had a 2003 four cylinder Honda Accord, that I purchsed used from an estate sale. The vehicle came with an extended 100,000 Honda warrany, and that warranty paid out $3,000+ dollars worth of repair prior to trading it for the Camry. So as you can see, not evern Honda is perfect! I did not like the ride of the Honda Accord, and I did not like the seats of the Accord. They were VERY uncomfortable! The engine and transmission were outstanding. I changed the engine oil and filter every 3,000 miles, and I had the trasnmission fluid changed once a year, or every 20,000 miles, which every came first.
I think Toyota needs to take responsibility for this issue and fix the problem.
Will I purchase another Toyota? Probably--- NO!--- Do I like the vehicle that I have? ---- YES! ---- Reason: --- I do not want to take a chance on getting a problem vehicle! If Toyota values their "customer base" let them prove this by solving this problem for those who have the problem! Then maybe, I will consider purchasing another Toyota in 2010!
Best regards. ------ Dwayne :shades: :confuse:
Printout a copy of the latest TSB for the 4 cylinder, which effects the engine & transmission performance. Hard for the dealer to indicate there isn't a TSB, when you can hand it to them. The TSB has been posted in one of these Camry forums. I think that could go a long way toward addressing your hesitation, and potentially also your mileage. I was getting poor mileage initially, until I had the first TSB ECM performed. When I walked into the dealership with a printout of the first TSB, they hadn't seen it either (it literally had just come out). They took it, looked it up on the computer, and did it very willingly with the oil change that I had booked.
I haven't had this latest TSB performed yet, but will so on next scheduled oil change. My car has been running great since the first TSB a year ago.
If you can't find the TSB with a search, let us know.
Can't speak to whatever radio problem you are having, I haven't experienced or read of any problems. Seems like you are getting shortchanged by the service department, is there another dealership in proximity? You can take it to any Toyota dealership for warranty repairs.
Have had my LE since they first came out, with 20K miles now (I guess a year and a half now). Other than the cruise control downshifting and hesititation problems which were both fixed with the original TSB, car has been fabulous.
1b.) I was one of the original owners reporting the cruise control problem, and to explain this need to first explain the I4-5speed. There are obviously 5 gears in the transmission, but there is also a feature which 'locks' the torque converter while in 5th gear, which will drop another approx 300-500 rpm or so when it shifts into lockup mode. This almost makes it appear on the tach that it is a 6speed, but it isn't. In travelling down the interstate at constant speed, you would normally be in 5th gear with lockup. What I found is that in driving via soft foot on the pedal, I could cruise along just fine. The car would drop out of lockup at times to climb a slight grade, and would even downshift to 4th on occasion if necessary. During this period of time the car speed would drop a few mph. Under cruise control however, as the car started to drop mph it would quickly downshift from 5th lockup to say 4th, and sometimes 5th L to 3rd. Car would surge ahead and overshoot the target mph speed, would shift into 5th lockup again. Seemed like the vehicle had to downshift for even the slightest of grades, appeared to be lacking enough power for how high the transmission was geared. I have some torque and hp charts on my carspace, and the rpms at cruise speed with 5lockup were below the power/torque curves of the engine. I believe (not technically substantiated) that the engineers just got the engine too lean, and over geared, in effect actually decreasing the overall performance.
The original TSB (and the latest supercede's the original), feels like to me to give the engine more horsepower, and gives the transmission different shift points. The car runs sooo much better, it's like night and day. Both the hesitation, as well as the cruise control downshifting problem went away....and my mpg, and performance went up.
2.) Live/work in Raleigh, have a place at Kiawah.
Thanks for the explanation on flare. Unfortunately, I still get the cruise problem (happened many times on a recent trip to Raleigh). The car does downshift, and surge ahead, but the RPMs stick over 3000 or more for 3-5 seconds, before dropping back down. Almost like a combination of the flare and cruise problem. Personally, I think this car could use a few more horsepower, and that might help solve the problem. Honda has a 177HP and 190HP 4cyl in their new lineup. I drove both, and the 177 seems a little underpowered, 190 seemed perfect. Of course, and probably obvious, I am not an auto techie, just have owned and driven many cars over the years.
I forget, didn't you get the latest TSB put on? Are you saying you still have a cruise control downshifting problem?
I4 Torque/HP curves
With OD gear ratios of ~1:1.7 (engine turning once for each 1.7 turns of the transaxle output "shaft") the engine RPM is down in the low 2000 range when just cruising along at hwy speeds.
Since torque converters MUST act like a clutch at 800/1000 RPM, low torque coupling, at these low engine RPMs the lockup clutch must be used to bypass the torque converter.
So modern day vehicles are almost NEVER in OD without the lockup clutch being engaged unless a reasonably high level of engine torque is required, bringing the engine RPM up into the range wherein an unlocked torque converter can operate with efficiency.
But.
These days a significant improvement in FE is being attained via using the lockup in gear ratios below OD. Eliminating the inefficiencies of the torque converter at times when its torque multiplication factor is of little or no use. Making a 5 speed, 4 speed + OD, transaxles into "six" speed transaxles.
Now, the "driveability" issue.
Were you to have an accelerometer in hand at the times your car "downshifts" when it exceeds the cruise control target you might find something unusual.
Even thought the engine RPM jumps quite noticeably aurally and "visually", the accelerometer indicates a nice smooth transition.
Say WHAT...??!!
Your were doing 60MPH in cruise control and now that uphill slope causes the speed to decrease slightly, so more engine TORQUE must be applied.
So the lockup clutch disengages.
But in the INSTANTANEOUS case, at the "current" engine RPM, the torque converter is simply not efficient enough to maintain your speed, let alone bring it back up to the "target".
The engine/transaxle ECU has been made well aware of this fact and therefore it will use DBW to open the throttle slightly, simultaneously with releasing the lockup.
Why the attention given to this issue??
With you, "soft-footing" the accelerator pedal, the very same thing, VERY SAME THING, happens. But since YOU are the causative factor in the downshift sequence it simply doesn't get your interest as does having it happen automatically.
Also, can you really "soft-foot" it just barely enough to keep it in the OD gear ratio but with the lockup disengaged or do you mostly end up in an entirely lower gear ratio.
The ECU via DBW can....
While you would have to search for "it", via some hunting, dithering of the gas pedal, the engine/transaxle controlling ECU "KNOWS" just EXACTLY what engine RPM, torque output level, will be needed, without any EXCESS whatsoever, once the lockup is released.
"Driveability".
And by the way the lower HP/torque I4 will be much more subject to this "effect" vs the V6.
And by the way these matters, issues, effects, have been exacerbated in the past few years by some breakthrough technology. My 2001 RX300 cruises at 65MPH and 2700 RPM. The new RX350 cruises at 2200 RPM at 65 MPH.
VVT-i? Dual intake plenum?
Doesn't matter, the fact is that many modern day engines now have a higher torque level in the low RPM ranges than we ever dreamed of just a few years ago. So the OD ratios are getting higher and higher, allowing the engines to operate at even lower RPM levels while just cruising along.
Lower RPM levels = Lower, LOWER, torque converter coupling efficiency. In the next decade we will begin to see torque converters disappear from the passenger vehicle marketplace.
Just to be clear up my personal situation, as I think you have it a little confused.
- Back when I bought the car a year and a half ago, I experienced the cruise control downshifting problem, and a slight hesitation. I have never experienced a transmission 'flare' (I have the 4cylinder LE).
- The original TSB from a year ago, resolved both of the above symptoms that I had. No problems have surfaced since then, and now have over 20K miles. EG056-06
- I have NOT had the updated TSB performed yet (release Aug 2007), but plan to at the next oil change. EG036-07
If you have had the latest TSB performed, and have the sticker to prove it (inside your hood), and it has not fixed your problem.....I'd take it back to the dealership and indicate to them your problem. I'd personally ask them to re-install it.
Please do not use the word 'flare' in describing the transmission downshifting. The flare problem is when the V6-6speed transmission is accelerating, and when UP SHIFTING, where it appears to go thru neutral. These are two totally different problems, on two different models. There is a post from probably 6-9 months ago where a poster actually took a video of the transmission flare. If you see it, you'll recognize it is not anything like a normal transmission downshifting. With the cruise control problem, the car is maintaining a steady speed on the interstate, and does not appear to have enough power to handle even the slightest of inclines/upgrades. The cruise control senses it is loosing mph, depresses the accelerator, and downshifts the transmission to accelerate back up to target speed.
I found the video for an upshifting transmission flare, here it is:
flare video
My car Vin is USA w/4T, made in April '06
purchased at XYZ Toyota!
Ask me about it!"
There are civilized and diplomatic ways to get things done. You have the Owner's rights and notifications booklet that came with your owner's manuals and advices you how to go about getting satisfaction if you think you might have a :lemon: Use it!
Mackabee
This is the way it's supposed to work! I've been driving for over 30 years and all cars with cruise do this. Foreign and domestic. When going up a steep incline the vehicle will slow down. It's just a law of physics. The ECU senses this and downshifts until it gets back to the preset speed. It then upshifts to a higher gear and maintains the preset speed.
Mackabee