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http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/complain/results.cfm
Here is a link to a couple of videos that I took 8 months ago when my '07 Camry had this problem.
http://www.putfile.com/corton
These videos are rather large so they may take a while to DL or display, so just be patient.
I went through valve body and transmission replacements on my (former) Camry and the problem still existed. Finally my dealer gave me a 100% refund on the Camry towards another Toyota. I'm now driving a Highlander Hybrid.
I'm totally dismayed and disappointed to find that the problem that existed in the '07 Camry V6 models 8 months ago still seems to exist in vehicles being currently built.
This does not seem to bode well for Toyota or the Toyota faithful.
I considered buying an '07 Camry LE as my commuter car but knowing all of the problems...forget about it.
The tides may be turning for Honda & Toyota...mass production is killing the quality & reliability of these cars. Hyundai, KIA, and even GM is moving up the ranks.
Not because it improved but because all the other airlines slid down to their level.
Actually, Toyota told me to take a hike. In my discussions with Toyota Corporate I received absolutely the worst "customer service" that I've ever experienced.
It was the Dealer that came through for me. I've purchased several vehicles from them and they continue to earn my business because they have always taken good care of me.
I have a 2007 V6 Camry with 3,000 miles. The Vehicle is four weeks old, and to date, I do not have this problem. My vehicle was manufactured in Japan, and I make it a point to warm up the vehicle before I drive it on cold mornings. I think the video listed on this site indicated that the problem with the flare on the 3 to 4 shift occured when the vehicle was driven cold. Maybe I have the problem, but because I warm-up the vehicle, something is occuring in the transmission that eliminates the problem, (fluid flow is better, or somthing like a seal is expanding). In any case, Toyota is in BIG TROUBLE with this issue! As a consumer, I purchase an extended warranty for 6 years or 100,000 miles, so I am not worried about a BIG REPAIR BILL, but on the other side of the issue, I DO NOT WANT a vehicle that is not dependable. If it turns out that my vehicle does have this transmission problem, I will allow Toyota to attempt to repair the vehicle in a professional manner, and I will work with my dealer to facilitate this repair, but after the third attempt at repairing this issue, (with no positive results), I will envoke the lemon law in my state. I paid a lot of money for a top of the line vehicle, and I will NOT live with a transmission problem over a three year period and make payments in the process. I cannot imagine that Toyota with all their engineers cannot trouble shoot an automatic transmission. A flare up in a 3 to 4 shift indicates that something in the transmission is releasing before something else is applying, thus the transmission is going into a neutral for a second. This can be a hydraulic pressure drop or a leaky seal on a hydraulic component. If there are Toyota corporate people on this site, I would like to encourage them to take the necessary action to develop a fix for this problem. If I have to use the lemon law, I will not purchase another Toyota vehicle, rather I will go with an Impala!------ Best regards. ---- Dwayne :shades: :confuse:
Dwayne, hope your car continues to be fine.
So, sorry, but after thinking about it a bit I'm going to come out on the "wrong" side of this one, since automotive history supports Toyota/Lexus' position that the transaxle "flare" represents "normal" operation.
Assuming, that is, it only happens before the ATF has warmed to operating temperature.
Long ago Ford V8 engines with 4 barrel carburators had a thermostatic lockout to prevent the 2nd two, LARGER, barrels from operating until the engine had warmed to something close to normal operating temperature.
300HP at WOT but not until the engine has warmed to operating temperature.
WHY..?
To prevent premature failure of the engine.
Did I notice, care..?
Yes, No.
So, either learn to let the ATF warm for a few minutes before you drive off or do not be so lead-footed on the throttle until the ATF has a chance to warm up and expand to FULL volume.
Give me the design sheets and I would redesign the engine ECU firmware to detune the engine (prevent those two large carburator barrels from opening) until the ATF came up closer to full volume. Sort of like the acceleration level you get in a GS300 in "snow" mode.
As stated in the above posting, I do not have any problem letting the engine and transmission come up to normal operating temperature before putting a load on the drive train. I do this for a number of reasons. First we are working with Aluminum engines and steel cam and crankshafts. Each material has a different expansion rate.------ Second, the fluids, (especially the engine oil), needs to work its way throughout the entire block and into the components of the engine. On a "cold morning" this could be a problem! Cold engines make all kinds of noise when first started! ------ Third, the transmission also needs to have the fluid in a state that will allow it to move readily through the valve body, and to various components of the unit. ----- Fourth, I like to have a warm vehicle interior!
On a cold morning, the driver has to warm up the vehicle in order to get the ice off the windows, so why not warm the vehicle up to normal operating temperature. How much fuel could you possibly use to accomplish this task? I do not buy the rational for not allowing the engine and transmission to reach normal operating temperature before driving off. But, that is just my opinion, and others are entitled to their oprinion, and that is what makes the United States GREAT!
Here is a little experiment that the people with the flare issue can conduct with their vehicles. 1.) Start the vehicle as normal. 2.) Place the selector in the "manual shift mode" drive off as usual, and shift the transmission, (from one to six), manually. If you do not get the "flare" on the 3 to 4 shift, then you know that it must be a component in the valve body that is not reacting to cold / thick fluid thus causing the "neutral / flare". By shifting manually you are circumventing this component in the valve body. On the next morning, allow the vehicle to run until it reaches normal operating temperature before driving. (Drive the vehicle in the normal "D" position.) If the 3 to 4 shift does not have a "flare / neutral" you know that it is a cold / thick fluid issue!
QUESTION:
Does anyone living in a warm climate like Florida have this issue? Lets hear from people from the warm states!
BEST REGARDS! ----- Dwayne :shades: :confuse:
There's no way that the flare as so brilliantly documented by Corton, could be considered 'normal' with any excuse......cold, hot, or lukewarm.
If that car was sitting on a used car lot and you test drove it, I can't imagine that you would consider buying it. I know I'd be out of there in a heartbeat.
It's obvious to me why he got his money back. That video can easily be electronically routed and shown to any Toyota executive, lawyer, or arbitration personnel...and everyone who sees it knows immediately that it's not right. Luckily for Toyota that his dealer stepped up to make the right decision.
i'm thinking hesitation in a turn, possibly a mis-calibrated YAW sensor or steering angle sensor or the programming for vehicle stability control, but i don't know what your 2005 had as far as that is concerned.
i remember reading one or two posts from sienna owners complaining of something similar- a hesitation during a turn.
the retarding of the shift into OD or changing of shift points in a vehicle that is cold is something many cars are programmed for to get the vehicle's engine to higher efficiency more quickly.
I have had the trans. replaced after the failed valve body tsb. I am still getting a rpm flare most of the time 500- 700 rpm. I've also noticed since my new revised trans my gas mileage has been lousy. About 17.3 mpg local driving.
I was able to get a service guy at the dealer to witness a 500-700 rpm flare. Then after he talked to the Toyota Rep he said the flare was insignificant and they decided the car is running normal.
I feel that what ever they did to revise my trans to try to eliminate the flare has compromised my gas mileage.
They want to blame it on the cold weather but I don't buy it. The car doesn't shift smoothly all the time and seems to be sluggish on hills and taking off at times.
If anyone has any comments they are well appreciated. Thanks, Chuck
My argument to Toyota is that if the flare is normal, why replace the transmission in the first place?
I've filed for arbitration under the lemon law.
Will let you know how it works out.
If the car wasn't under warranty they probably would be tell us they need to replace our trans.
It's a shame Toyota is giving Camry owners a hard time!
Thank you for posting this information about your vehicle. Your assessment about the transmission issue is "right on the money"! (Why replace the trans if the characteristic is "normal"?) ---- Toyota is drowning with this issue, and they are reaching for excuses!
While my vehicle DOES NOT have this problem at the present time, (3,800 miles), I am apprehensive about this condition occurring at a higher mileage, since one owner on this board had it occur at 13,000 miles.
I keep detailed service records, and when I purchased my Camry, I made it a point to have it financed by Toyota, (not a bank). The sales person ask me why I was VERY adamant about this issue? I responded that in the event that I had to go through "arbitration on this vehicle," I wanted everything in one package! He had a VERY surprised look on his face!
Kindly keep us informed as to your progress with your vehicle, and the arbitration process. Remember, KNOWLEDGE is power! The more we as consumers know about what to expect from the manufacturer in the "arbitration process," the better we can prepare! If I had to go through this process, most likely I would have my attorney send one of his people with me to the process. That should get the attention of the manufacturer, the bank and the dealer!
As stated above, my vehicle DOES NOT have this problem and I love the comfort and the ride, but I am VERY concerned about this issue. QUESTION: --- Why does my vehicle run "OK," while another vehicle has this problem? Something is NOT RIGHT with this issue, and we all paid a lot of money for this vehicle! I could be facing this problem at a higher mileage!
I hope this works out for you with this vehicle, and I hope that Toyota comes up with a "fix" for this problem! Please keep us informed with regards to your progress.
Best regards. ----- Dwayne :shades: :confuse:
Climate...?
How cold does it get at night where you are vs others..?
Heated, warm garage..?
Still guessing that the flare problem has something to do with ATF hot/cold volume.
I live in Northern New Jersey. The vehicle is kept outside in the driveway. The temperature at night is wherever it is on a given day! During the last week, we had some bitter cold days. I usually start my vehicle while I am getting ready to leave for the day. This translates into the fact that the vehicle runs in the driveway from about 10 to 15 minutes on a very cold day to come up to temperature. On a warmer day, the vehicle might only run for about 5 minutes. (The vehicle is my office, and I like to travel in a warm vehicle. Comfort is an issue with me,--- along with performance).
I have a technology background, and I hang around with a group of people who just love cars! ----- Some of them were talking about the valve body of a transmission possibly being made of aluminum, while the valves possibly being made of steel. Knowing that aluminum expands much faster than steel, it is possible that fluid could be leaking around a valve in the valve body, because the aluminum housing is expending faster than the steel valve, thus changing the valve to bore clearance! This action, if it is taking place, would lower the pressure in the hydraulic circuit, and it could possibly cause a flare (slippage), until the pressure regulator valve in the transmission can compensate for the leak!
You might be on to something with regards to a "fluid issue"!
Best regards. ------Dwayne :shades: :confuse:
Thanks for your response. The problem began to occur at just over 6K miles for me. After transmission was replaced, problem began again after about 2K miles. Obviously not affecting all Camrys,so you may OK. Some readers think flare has something to do with climate/temperature, although flare sometimes worse on warmer days this winter (50+ degrees). Wondering if maybe when & where car was manufactured may have some bearing. Mine was produced Aug 06 in KY. In any case, it's too bad, because I really like the car otherwise.
Toyota is in a mess and I hope they will start taking care of the consumer.
My Camry v-6 has many problems that need to be fixed.
I'm loosing hope in Toyota. I've never driven a car with these problems. Keep talking it up on these sites to gain public awareness
makes me sad they fractured the forums like this. really hurts connecting the dots and efficiently exchanging information that many would find helpful. :sick:
good luck. i think getting trapped in a situation like this is good reason to articulate caution to potential purchasers that the manufacturer and dealership network are failing to stand behind the product for this problem area.
I am however very curious as to what the Toyota dealer actually has to say in a circumstance such as this. Are they constructively working with you to try to resolve the problem ,or, are they denying the problem and otherwise avoiding further action ? In either case, I can surely understand your frustration and lack of confidence with this vehicle. Best of luck .
The person that bought mine back was not a Toyota rep but a independent buy back/repo person. I got all money back including sales tax and license fees.The money was from Toyota though and not from dealer.Dealer only wanted to give me 24000 on trade.
I know of 2 others with similar stories in my area. I know others who have no problems and are very in love with their 6speeds! I think the problem is in all of them. I just think most people would not notice or know it was doing it. One of my neighbors road with me when it happened and he said he probably wouldn't have noticed it at all if I hadn't pointed it out.
Will it fail completly? or just be there for 300,000.I'm not going to find out!
The person I talked to from the National 800 # was in Cal. She only followed up on the dealer servicing me, until the 2nd transmission. Then I said "this is getting out of hand" She agreed and then put me in contact with a person from my region. She's the one who ok's the buyback or swap. Arbitration is different each state and like a court appearance. (I think)
Good luck on everyone who's not happy!(and to those who are!)
I have not had it back for service. It's really getting difficult to drive in those 30 to 40 speed limit areas and this keeps happening. You can watch the tach just drop 1K or more. Also, the mileage I'm getting is just 17-18 and I'm trying to make the connection to the drag when it decelerates.
Is the transmission upshifting to a higher gear, thereby the Tach RPM dropping?.... or is the transmission downshifting to a lower gear, putting a drag on the car, with the tach RPM rising when the transmission downshifts?
Assuming you have a 4cylinder 5 speed auto, correct?
When is the manufactured date of your vehicle? Look on the sticker in drivers door jamb.
It's not upshifting instead it seems like it caught in between and it's only occurs in the 30-40 speed range that you'll feel it. Unfortunately, that is where most townships speed limits are.
Maybe a better explanation would be... your driving along and now exced the speed limit, you lift your foot ever so lightly and the tach drops 800-1K and you feel the drag on the car. It should be a gradual easing back in speed and RPM and the car does not noticeable drag like you just applied the brakes. Hopefully that helps.
If the car has had the fix for the transmission problem put in place, does that mean it has been solved? The one I am looking at has 10k miles and still 50k left on the factory powertrain warranty, or at least that's what I am being told as well...could anybody shed some light on this feel like I can put my foot in the water here......
lobsterboy
I am so bummed because I loved my 97 Tacoma...never had any problems with it for 10 years. I never thought in a million years I would be bringing in my brand new car and having the entire transmission replaced.
Also, I heard and felt a 'clunk' when braking today (second time). I came really close to just dropping it off at Toyota and walking away. I remember reading about some others experiencing this issue too...I am going to dig up the posts and chime in.
I agree with the other posts here, the quality just doesn't seem up to normal Toyota standards.
I need to call Toyota Motor Sales today and open a case and get a case manager. I am going to request a 7 yr/100,000 mi ext. warranty on the powertrain...at a minimum.
I went on my first Highway drive for about 300 miles and seem to be getting closer to the EPG they say 27-30 mpg.
I have had the revised trans and believe that it is affecting my 1st though 4th gears which is giving me bad mpg in the city. Any thoughts?
i presume you don't have too many miles on the vehicle right? i'm thinking during break-in, it should just get better up through 3-5K miles.