Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
Accept this and put your money into things that make sense long term like quality oil, keeping it properly tuned and maintained and you'll be much happier. Chasing a half MPG with dollars is not wise.
IdahoDoug
http://search.carsguide.news.com.au/thecouriermail/display_used.j- sp?rec_id=670620&make_id=TOYOTA&site_id=thecouriermail
My questions surfaced when I spoke to a local dealer asking about my 15K service coming up. They include all kinds of things not recommended in the guide. I looked over the included service booklet from Toyota and couldn't find any info on transmission fld changes nor the other "dealer recommended maintenence items" that the person I spoke with mentioned.I know dealerships add on all kinds of items to increase the maintenence dept's profitablity. I don't want to do anything that is not truly req'd..According to what I remember reading from the Toyota "pamphlet",15K service basically included an inspection of much of the things listed on the edmunds maintenence pages and an oil change/tire rotation/re torque of the propeller shaft bolts?? Can't recall as I don't presently have the guide with me..(At work)I do remember it not including changing the F/R Diff flds and I don't recall ever seeing any mention of changing the tranny fld.. Based on my driving conditions, I'm fine with the 5K oil change intervals.
So, my questions are:
-F/R Diff Flds? How often to change? The dealer mentioned that they only inspect the levels and top up fld as needed.
-Transmission Fld? How often if ever to change..I find it hard to believe they (Toytota) only recommend inspections and adding fld if req'd..
-Is there a booklet that I'm missing? Possible to buy a guide anywhere online? The dealership stated the pamphlet I had was it..I'm game for doing my own services as able and fine to go to a dealership for the stuff that's out of my league..Thanks in advance for the help.
I am inclined to go along with idahodoug - the relativley low maintenance costs of the LC make up for the heavy fuel usage.
Before I spend money on a Borla I am waiting for the time when I HAVE to replace the manifold for maintenance reasons - what sort of mileage on an Fj80 might be expected for this?
The whole point of the LC is that it DOESNT need as much maintenance as other cars - including other Toyotas. I do not take my LC to dealers anymore as I am fed up with being ripped off.
If you're uncomfortable with what you're being told by your dealer, you might try going to another one. I would also recommend that you consider buying the repair manual.
FWIW I do most of the maintenance on my '02. I change out my F/R diff and TCase at 10K intervals and also my ATF (pan only). While I'm underneath, I do the chassis lube and propeller shaft etc.
It all looks pretty intimidating under there if you don't have some one who can tell you where the various things are. You might consider having your dealer do things for awhile and become friendly with the tech who works on your LC and ask him questions--assuming you're allowed to enter the shop area. Then you can try some things on your own as you become a bit more comfortable with your LC and where things are.
grantchstr. If you mean the LC doesn't need more frequent maintenance than other cars, I would tend to agree, but it does need more things done to it during a service. LCs are fantastic vehicles, but they do need to be taken care of
Sorry that you've had bad luck with dealers.
The sound of the Borla though beats the heck out of stock. Not louder, just lower. Finally, if you off-road, expect to bang up that pretty tip. It becomes the low point on the departure angle.
HiC
While it does have a 1M mile warranty, the fit in my case left a lot to be desired. Borla had to correction ship about 6 times to correct the deficiencies. I had to go to the dealer app 3 times to take care of issues unrelated to the dealer. I also had the hangers break a few times and my Toyota Dealership fixed it free on those occasions. To have sent it back or get the local representatives to fix it would have entailed far more hassle, work and down time! I have had 5 TLC's and did not bother to add it to any of the other 4.
DougM
If the article on Borla systems is to be believed the 1 mpg that I experienced would be solely due to switching to synthetic oil!
But the Blue Book value for my vehicle (1991 with 108K) is only $4,950. Which is why I dont insure it by the way. I'd get nothing back.
In my opinion, that is an awesome resale value. Even when you consider inflation, that is still excellent. There isn't anything else out there that holds value like the LC. However, it seems like the price of new fj80 did shoot up a great deal after 1987. An increase from 16k to 32+ k in just four years is indeed steep.
Living in New England I still chuckle over the great rep that 240 RWD Volvos have among academics for being good winter cars that are good for 200K before a valve cover comes off. An Intrepid or a Taurus, of all things, will do that same job a lot better and a lot longer.
Speaking of ATF fluid, do you use Redline Synthetic? If not, why not?
My rationale is rather simple. LCs to me are and always have been, an investment in quality and I like to protect my investments.
Also, I don't buy one every 2 or 3 years, so I like to maintain mine for the long haul. . And I like to do the maintenance--sort of a hobby. At least I know it's done right or who to blame if it isn't!
Though I've put Redline in the TCase and diffs, haven't yet tried their ATF, but I'm thinking hard on it. How about you?
Joeblow1 I think you're right and that's why to those that know, nothing but a LC will do ;=)
Any experience? just plug in or nightmare?
thanks
Eric
Experience with this issue?
and pretty annoying you can't do some of the functions while moving, heck, not safe if the passenger does the input??? grrr...
thanks
Eric
Anybody got a copy or knows where to got one?
Electronic version fine too.
thanks
Eric
RedLine ATF supposedly lowers the temp in the tranny fluid although I have no way of measuring this (although, interestingly, the 2004 Denalis do have a transmission temp gauge as standard equip.). I do know that in our small ragtag fleet of a Ford Pickup, two Jeep Grand Cherokee LTDs, a Jeep Grand Wagoneer, Volvo XC, and whatever else drifts in we've never, ever had a tranny problem out to 130K miles. We buy'em two years old, drain out all the old fluids and stuff them full of Mobil1 oil and filters, RedLineATF, premium air filters, and superpremium tires. Then we use them. Hard.
As a side note, I think that the LC owner base is going through the same changes that the BMW and Saab owner base went through about 10 years ago. That is, the kind of people who initiatlly liked the attributes of the BMW 2002 sedan or the old Saab 95's, no longer can afford or even like where BMW and Saab are today. Most of the folks I see driving late model LCs tend to put initials on their shirt pockets and after their name. Then they charge a couple of hundred bucks an hour for "professional services" and wonder why a tradesman with an equal investment has the nerve to charge $65.
I would like to think that both BMW and Toyota are still building high quality, exceptionally capable vehicles. I also think that many who buy these vehicles (now) are totally unfamiliar or unaware of the tremendous history of either marque.
I can compare my earlier LCs to my '02, just as I can compare my earlier BMWs to the current offerings. Way back when 2002s and FJ40s were "undiscovered" the cult followings started--in fact there wasn't even a BMW of North America then. Hoffman Motors was the importer and I think the total # of units imported was about 15,000/yr in the early 70s. As you say, many of the customers that started the "movements" may have been priced out of the current market and are driving something else (Hondas?), but it's a business, and it just seems that the more options offered the more they sell?
While I think the 100 is an improvement in many areas over the 80 series, the refinement of it with the V8, VSC, soundproofing etc, has taken a bit of the edge from the LC. But, having driven cross country in the 100 I can tell you it's one sweet machine and I think that Toy did a good job of adding the luxo features the majority of folks want, without totally taming what the LC has been and stands for. Though I've modified my suspension and have a lift, I think the 100 gives away very little, if anything, to the 80 series in off road capabilities (I'm sure many will disagree with me and say that real LCs have solid axles, just as old time BMW people say that real BMWs have round tail lights).
I may not be 100% satisfied with the LC US offerings--I'd love to have another one with a solid front axle--but in the Luxo SUV catagory I think it's hard to beat.
I think BMW's direction is, well, different Look at a 3.0cs v. the new 6 series coupe.
And I don't have initials on my shirt
The tradesman also has capital investments. These are the traditional investments made by a small business person. Machine tools, welders, computers, service vans, etc. etc. Clearly, a successful trades based business will have easily 200K in assets. Most, more. This is often more debt than a professional took on to purchase his assets.
One difference is that the traditonal small business person usually doesn't whine about his debt load as does the small business person whose assets are in human capital like an MD. And there is less a feeling of entitlement; he doesn't think that someone else should have given him his assets. Some of this is often reflected in consumer behavior: the "professional" once through with school has less of need for capital and might pop for a new TLC. The small business guy might say, gee, I could pick up one more 3/4 ton service truck for another crew AND a Yukon for me to do sales calls in to grow the business for the price of a TLC. (One could argue that a business person who buys a TLC either has a stagnant business into which no more capital should be deployed or has more cash flow than his business plan can keep up with.)
Thanks
You're comparing a difference in tail lights to a difference in suspension design?
There is a large difference between independent and live axle suspensions with pros and cons to each design. For more than mild offroad, give me a live axle every time. Much easier to maintain and much cheaper to lift a live axle as well.
To some long time BMW people (the round tail light set), the replacement of the 2002 with the 3series was a big mistake, just as live axle fans think Toy offering an IFS suspension on an LC is heresy.
My point(s) was that many who are buying, or leasing BMWs and LCs these days are probably unaware of the rich history of these vehicles and the cult followings they created. Some who had the early offerings may feel a bit betrayed". I think if you re-read my post you'll see that my preference would also be for a solid axle LC, but having owned live axle LCs and now an IFS LC, I don't really think the IFS models are any less capable for the BULK of off road use. Do I think that there are situations where I'd like to have a RFS , of course, but it seems to me that you're assessment of the IFS LC is that it isn't much good for any thing other than jumping speed bumps.
But, as I've already stated, these are my opinions based on my own experience. I agree with your points about the "ease" of raising a live axle v. IFS. Also, my 4WD needs are for snow, some ice, beach sand, and occasionaly some mud. I suspect your needs are much greater than mine.
I know others that have both an 80 and 100 and are pretty adamant that the 100 gives away nothing to an 80. There were a lot of sneers from 40 and 60 guys when the 80s came out......until they started seeing them on the trail. Maybe you've judged these newer LCs a little to harshly?
Mobi-hit me off line and I'll send you some pictures and explain the difference between the lift for the IFS LCs v. those for the solid axle ones.
CLick on each gallery for more pics.
Mine is the champagne one.
uzj100
285/75 R 16 BFG ATs - About 33 inches. You can go to 315/75 R16 's (35's) with a few more adjustments.
uzj100
Tail lights are not a functional item. A suspension change is major, and it represents a step in the softer direction. The 80 does better than the 40 and 60 offroad. Underneath the leather, it's a hard core rig.
Ask '86 and later minitruck owners who take their rigs offroad what they think of IFS. A live axle conversion is a very common operation these days.
I have an Fj80, can some one fill me in a bit on the pros and cons of the axle I have and what I am missing, if anything?
Simple con: Road manners are a bit harsher and cornering (high speed especially) are not as good.
HiC
Thanks in advance for any advice.
Comments?
FYI: the front brake pads were down to the metal 25,000 after the previous change.
Is the buzz from the back of the dash rubbing against the windshield?
Some 80 owners are putting 100 pads on thier rigs. I think there's some modification needed though.
Maybe Idaho doug knows about this?