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What is this thing worth?

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Comments

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I thought about that.

    We have a local shop called Bel-Kirk Mustang that will install the engine for around 1000.00. I figured another grand for misc. stuff and another grand to overhaul the transmission. That's 7000.00.

    Mustangs are bringing crazy money lately so I don't think a person could lose.

    But...I've thought wrong before!
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,685
    "and sell the car in the end for a profit. "

    I'd be surprised if you could pay a shop to do that and come out much ahead, given the unknowns with the engine and tranny. Sure, best case it all goes together fine, and you're money ahead. But I put the odds on that at about 10%.

    If the majority of those 'Wheeler Dealer' cars clear maybe 10%, only including parts costs, no labor, then paying a shop would be a major gamble.

    And wouldn't other folks have looked at it? If it was such an obvious money maker why's it still there?
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,889
    I was under the impression that it wasn't officially for sale and isell knew somebody who knew somebody.

    i could be wrong.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • olddustofferolddustoffer Member Posts: 16
    I have neighbor who restores 60's Fords. He has a mint 64 Fairlaine(sp?) 500 with ~40k actual miles on it in his garage today.
    He tells me Ford did not start putting VIN numbers on engines until 1968, so any 289 of that era (without serial numbers) will be ok. The engine could be ~$500-$1k rebuilt. They are so easy to rebuild it's ridiculous. I did like 6 of those Ford engines for me and friends in the 80's, both 289 and 302's, and I'm just a "Shade Tree" type. (I was a Huey Mechanic/Crew Chief in the Army, but in Medicine after).
    The transmission could be a far worse problem if it needs a complete rebuild, as complete rebuild kits approach $1k, and good luck finding anyone nearby that will rebuild it, you could be looking at $2500 right there; however if all it needs are seals, maybe $1K or even half that. I would find out what the Tranny needs. The big question is the electricals. In storage mice can wreck havoc. The interior needs to be carefully looked at for cracks, blistered Dashboard etc. I would have a trained Body Man look at it underneath. as well as the outer body, don't forget the "Magnet Test" for bondo. The 289 Automatics are fairly common according to my neighbor.
    I agree that with a HQ interior and paint, 15k should be easy.
    Check out similar cars online for a base, but if it has hidden cancer, that hits the price HUGE.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    No, it's not officially for sale. I found out about it kinda by accident.

    It WILL be for sale soon however since the owner is getting tired of it taking up space in his garage.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I used my little magnet and detected no bondo that I could tell.

    Again, the car is from So. California and cars don't rust there.

    I disagree about the transmission. It's a C4 Cruisematic and they are VERY common and a snap to work on. I assumed it would need a total rebuild and a local QUALITY transmission show quoted me between 900-1200 dollars for a total rebuild.

    As far as the 289 engine. It isn't seized and it looks like it's been recently gone through. Rebuilding that CAN be easy but if it needs everything including a rebore then it becomes a job for a machine shop.

    The interior is a new reproduction interior that has never seen miles. It does need a dash pad but those are reproduced and aren't expensive.

    It's a good car for someone with time, patience a big garage and a few dollars.

    I lack the patience part myself.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,889
    edited October 2013
    Are you SURE you don't want to buy that car for $4k??

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=131014087161

    That thing is already at $2200 in just 2 bids. And that's a 6-cyl car.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I'm wondering if that was a "shill" bid?

    If that car is REALLY worth 2200.00, the one I looked at would be worth at least three times as much as it sits.

    Unbelievable!
  • bhill2bhill2 Member Posts: 2,466
    Does it strike anyone else that there are no pictures of the engine?

    2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    No, that's not unusual.

    People often don't include engine photos on ebay.

    I'm sure it's a grimy little 170 sitting in there.

    I'm still shaking my head.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I saw a much better '65 Mustang 6 sell for $3000 a few weeks ago. It was all original, all there, unmolested and running. Soap and water, a few stitches here and there, some rattle cans for the engine bay, a power wash underneath and a cheapo paint job was all it really needed.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    That's why I'm thinking that solo 2200.00 bid was from a shill to throw some chum into the water.

    But.. I could be wrong!
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,889
    But its not a solo bid. That's the high from 2 bidders. In other words, the other guy had to bid $2100 max.

    could it be 2 shills? Sure. But if you are going to bother, just set the opening bid at $2k and be done with it. But people do weird things, right?

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • garv214garv214 Member Posts: 162
    edited October 2013
    The 2 bids are from the same EBayer... The bidder only has a feedback of 3, so it could be a shill bid. But he has been bidding on a whole bunch of Ford items, so he may be looking for parts...
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,889
    you can bid against yourself? I didn't know that. Doesn't make much sense.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Three days to go and no more bids on that Mustang!
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I lost track! did it sell? Anyone know?
  • bhill2bhill2 Member Posts: 2,466
    It looks to me like it sold for $2910, unless the buyer regains his sanity.

    2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    paid too much for it.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Well now the owners's wife tells me that I can have everything for 3000.00!

    " We just want it out of the garage now"

    By "everything" they mean all books and manuals, all of the parts, an engine stand (with 289 mounted) a cherry picker, go jacks and a "bunch" of other stuff.

    Now, if that POS Mustang on Ebay REALLY brought that kind of money, this one seriously should be worth three times that!

    thinking.....thinking....
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Deals like this depend entirely on how much of the work you're going to do yourself and how much labor is farmed out. "Project cars" are always a big question mark, so you don't go by price guides, or even comparables of complete and running cars. "Project cars" require their own careful consideration.

    Pay no more for it than you'd get back if you dumped it, as is, on someone else.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,889
    Sounds like a helluva deal.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    It's not the money so much.

    It's just the time, space and commitment that I'm struggling with.

    I do think that were they to advertise it someone would snap it up in an instant.

    Decisions......what to do?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,095
    Time and space. You'd no doubt be able to break up the lot and make a nice profit, but you might end up making $2/hr when it is all done.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,685
    edited October 2013
    Might a compromise be to have a garage do the engine/transmission installation, and you take it from there? Or is there lots to do before they can be put in?

    edit - Now I remember you saying something about reworking the tranny (maybe the engine), so how about renting a storage unit for a few months to store that chassis while that's being done, when they're ready tow the chassis to the shop, and go from there...
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Hey buddy!

    You live nearby. Any space in your garage?
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    The engine sits on a stand and it isn't frozen.

    The transmission has been sitting for 23 years along with everything else so I'm sure the seals and o rings are shot.

    There is a place nearby that only does Mustangs. They said they would install everything for around a grand. Might be a good idea.

    Fintail....Are you familiar with Bel-Kirk Mustangs on Bel Red Rd.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited October 2013
    The only way this is going to work for you is if you build most of it. Remember, you can buy a nice one for $15K, so work off of that as you calculate risk/desire/motivation/space etc. Do the math, see how it comes out and use at least a 1.5 multiplier as a fudge-factor.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,095
    Nope, never been there. But I have seen the Mustang show at Bellevue College a few times, there's no doubt a local group of enthusiasts.

    I could probably only fit a couple hubcaps in my extra garage space.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    You and I are on the same page.

    I can't tell you how often I have given the same advice.

    BUY ONE THAT IS ALREADY DONE!

    Thanks for talking me down!
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Only two hubcaps?

    Well, since it has the chrome Mustang wheels I would need a bigger garage.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,095
    If I end up with wheels I might sell them myself ;)
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,889
    But you said the body, paint, and interior are done, right? That's the biggest expense of a resto. So $3k + $1k trans + $1k install and you've got yourself a running, driving, nice looking v8 stang. Is that the whole of it? Then sell it cheap at $10k without doing the finishing work.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    My biggest problem is space and I don't feel like paying 400.00 a month for a storage building. We only have a two car garage and I hate (unlike most of our neighbors) leaving cars outside.

    And I just KNOW parts will be missing. Things like bolts, brackets etc.

    Still, what a buy it is! I've learned to trust my instincts and I just see red flags waving at me.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited October 2013
    I had a friend who bought a 60s Maserati like that...he figured $20K to finish...it ended up being $93,000, on top of what he paid for the car (not an insubstantial amount) . He did have a very nice car at the end, though, but factoring in what he paid for the "project", he about broke even...and if he holds the car another 5 years, he'll even make a little.

    What screwed the deal? Two things---1) missing or wrong parts and 2) shoddy workmanship to those parts already done.

    If I bought that 'Stang, very first thing I'd do is tear the engine down and look around. I have seen 'rebuilt' engines with vice grip marks on the connecting rod bolts!
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Well, what's wrong with that?

    Isn't a pair of vise grips a poor man's torque wrench?

    Once, when I was 17 years old. I had to change a fuel pump on my buddy's
    55 Chevy in a parking lot. We were a long way from home and broke.

    We walked across the street to a handy wrecking yard and bought a used one for 3.00 and using a pair of vise grips (only tool we had) and by using the old gasket, I changed it.

    Lucky it was a 6 cyl and I didn't want to be the guy who had to deal with those
    rounded off fittings the next time.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited October 2013
    The term "rebuilt" is abused about as much as "I Love You".

    Rebuilt is SUPPOSED to mean that the engine is returned to factory spec. It does NOT mean that "we replaced what was worn and left what was still okay. "

    That latter definition should be called "overhaul".

    Then there's the second question: Rebuilt by WHOM?"

    Hopefully not by the Krylon Engine Co.

    image
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    edited October 2013
    Have an appointment to see it tomorrow morning.

    It sounds like he has had a lot of interest on it.

    Link wouldn't post...in Seattle Craigslist a MINT 1999 Saab 93 convertible.

    Selling it for his mother in law who bought it new and babied it.

    Wants 3500.00 and has other showings scheduled.

    112,000 miles.

    Yeah, I have lost my mind!
  • omarmanomarman Member Posts: 2,702
    Beautiful Convertible Saab 9-3 - $3500

    Compared to columbus, there's a lot of listings in tacoma for 1999 Saabs! ;)
    A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Oh, an automatic----I don't think I'd touch that one. Price is too high for the miles anyway. I'd offer about $2200.

    1. It's an orphan

    2. Nobody likes to work on them

    3. Parts are expensive

    4. Resale value is nil.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    edited October 2013
    Beginning with the 1994 model year the 9-3 used the GM Opel platform, and the automatic transmission is a GM 4-speed unit, as far as I know. haven't heard that that one is problematic, as the 3-speed unit of the pre-1994 Saabs was reputed to be. Just commenting, but I don't hold myself out as an expert on this.

    Now, I believe the convertible switched to the Opel platform after 1994, but certainly before 1999. However, your four points are probably still valid, even if the transmission has a normal life expectancy. For example, I heard from the owner of a body shop who had one from the generation of the one we're talking about in his parking lot that the convertible top mechanism is very expensive to replace.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,188
    Those are all great reasons... if you are a used car dealer..

    But, if you want the car for yourself... None of that matters except for #2 and #3... (no one buys a $3500 car for the resale value)

    So, if you can find someone to work on it, you are set... That is a pretty nice car for $3500... You can't find an old Civic with under 150K miles for that amount...

    That doesn't mean you shouldn't try to get it cheaper... but, someone will snap it up soon for over $3K.. (I'd rather have a stick, too, but that just makes four or five of us....lol)

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  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I really need to stay away from Craigslist!

    About a week ago, someone asked a question in the "Questions" section on these forums about the advisability of buying a used Saab.

    Since that person was concerned about maintenance costs, I jumped in and told her that if that was important to her that there were much better choices.

    I reminded her that she would be buying an "orphan" etc and I tried to steer her away.

    So, here I am, looking at a SAAB!!

    I've never owned one but for some reason I've always been attracted to them. I know they tend to attract Engineers and people like that who are usually fiercely loyal to the brand.

    I also know that a lot of shops simply refuse to work on them.

    Still, I'm meeting the owner in an hour. Thinking I probably will pass
    or make him an offer he won't take but you never know.

    I just can't STAND not having an "extra" car in the garage!
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,188
    You really need to find a Saab mechanic, before you buy that car, though... ;-)

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  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Yes, good advice.

    There is a Euro shop about three miles from where we live and I've seen Saabs in there but I should give him a call anyway.

    I've owned two Peugeots years ago. Don't laugh!

    They were both diesels and they were strong and built like a tank. they had the most comfortable seats ever.

    There are (or were) a couple of shops in Seattle that worked on them and nearer there was a one man shop that only worked on Peugeots.

    That guy was a real Prima Donna who always made sure you knew he was doing you a favor by working on your Peugeot.

    And...maybe he was!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    To give you an idea---I live in "car repair mecca"---some of the finest mechanics in the world reside in the SF Bay Area---I'd be LUCKY to beg someone to work on a Saab. I know only tHREE 'specialists", all of which have Yelp reviews that would make your socks roll up and down. To be fair, they aren't ALL bad.

    SAMPLE: (paraphrasing from memory, from a woman poster)..."then he threw the keys at the floor in front of my feet and said "Get your freakin' car out of here, you Marin County _____!"

    Another Saab repair shop: "So, sorry to say, that despite a high recommendation from my mother, who had given my son the Saab in the first place, I found XX at XX Saab to be arrogant, rude, unethical, possibly incompetent, and seemingly intent on fee gouging and ripping me off. Perhaps, as he hinted, he is overworked, stressed out, broke and hurting himself."

    3rd Saab shop: "The quote ended up being a minimum of $1500 for a job that ended up costing less than half that at another shop. If you're going to gouge people on prices, make sure they don't have a fast Internet connection in their pocket."

    As opposed to our resident Subaru specialist: '"5 stars on steroids if possible. I've never met a more honest Auto Service owner in my life! He deserves the humanitarian award!"
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Well, I met the guy with the Saab and I took it for a short drive.

    Photos always seem to hide the small stuff and that was the case here.

    When he pulled into the parking lot, I thought.." Wow, that is one sharp looking car" and, it is!

    Body wise, it only has a couple of Dent Wizard type door dings. Paint has some weak areas but nothing bad. Clean Car Fax for what that's worth.

    What appeared to be the original top is starting to show some wear in a couple of areas as would be expected for a 13 year old car. I wouldn't drive it in the rain so no big deal, at least for now. Probably 2000.00 or more for a top I would think.

    Interior, probably would give it an 8 out of 10. Broken switch for HVAC controls that could be difficult to find. Seemed to run well and shifted well.

    After pouring through some of the forums, listening to you guys and reflecting back on my own limited experiences I have to say, the thing scares me.

    One major problem and it's totaled.

    I learned the engines are sludge prone and really need synthetic. The guy was selling it for his mother in law and had zero receipts and had no idea about what kind of oil she had used or much else.

    I learned through one of the forums that the convertible top hydraulics can be trouble prone and are a nasty, expensive [non-permissible content removed] to fix IF a person can be found to do this vexatious work. The seller operated to top for me and it was interesting to see how it worked. It seemed to work quite well.

    I still remember being at an old car show a couple of years ago when it started to rain. A guy with a retractable 1959 Ford scrambled to get his top up but mid way up. something broke leaving it stuck halfway up.

    Several guys ran over to help but 20 minutes later, it was still jammed. I don't know how they eventually dealt with that.

    The guy quickly dropped his price to 3000.00. I passed without giving him a number. He went on to his 11:00 appointment so who knows.

    He has my number. At 2400.00 I might be tempted.

    I do appreciate your opinions as always. Funny, I would (and have) have offered the exact same advice.

    Still, they ARE cool cars in an oddball quirky way and for some perverse reason, I like them!
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I did check and there are two or three highly rated on Yelp shops that work on Saabs.

    Bad thing is they are in Seattle which would be like you taking your car to Oakland to get it worked on.

    Not talking about the demographics, just the distance involved and the hassle.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,889
    edited October 2013
    my '99 had more miles than that and I got, IIRC, $3300 for it. Mine was green on tan. Black on black convertible is something I'd never do again. My Alfa was that color. While it looks good, it sucks to live with.

    For what its worth, the Saab never gave me, nor my father, whom I bought it from, an ounce of trouble. And parts were never a problem, but we never had to touch the engine (so just suspension, brakes, and some electrics).

    I still pine for a manual trans 9-3 sedan or hatch, but I'd prefer an '04+ for the slight styling change.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Oh I'd still buy one, but only for very very cheap. Was Saab out of business at the time you sold yours? That does make a difference.

    It's not hard to get parts--it's just hard to pay for them.

    Nothing inherently "bad" about those later Saabs (the earlier 900 series were very problematic)--just a question of upkeep and expense.
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