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The car LOOKS to be well done, however, but without eyeballs it's hard to give a value---"god is in the details" on a restoration and this car could be great, or it could, in reality, be a 20/20 car (looks good at 20 mph from 20 feet away).
What do eyeballs tell you that a camera doesn't? Well, I'd look for:
1. condition of all door and window seals
2. what's the car like underneath---suspension bushings? oil leaks? welding?
3. any body filler?
4. is the interior and exterior scratched up with fine-line marks?
5. how does it drive?
$45K is chump change on a full-blown restoration these days. :surprise:
So I took a quick look ... BJ had a nice yellow one go through 2011 Scottsdale at $27,500. They also had a white one that was a "nice driver with older restoration" go through Palm Beach for $20,900.
So I'm not sure what warrants an extra $10k for this dealer's car.
The only ones I'm seeing higher ($55k) are the Sports model. Not that I have ANY idea what that means, but they are touting the low build number, so it must have been a special package.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
The problem with valuing resto-rods is that unless it has one some meaningful awards at judging events, we have no way to assess the quality of the workmanship.
With a stock restoration, we can assume that if it wins some trophies, it's pretty nice AND it drives like it should.
But with an un-judged resto-mod that we've never driven, we have not idea of the workmanship, nor can we know if the car drives like a "[non-permissible content removed]".
I've driven some very nice looking resto-rods that drove like crap---they vibrated, they handled like bread vans on the one hand, or felt like they had cinder blocks in place of springs, on the other.
While a stock restoration is about just that--"restoration"---a resto-rod is also about engineering and fabrication.
One simple example. You change the engine or the differential from stock, and you don't figure out the proper driveshaft angles----that can just ruin a car's drivability. Or let's say too much engine heat (improper insulation).
As you know, "restored" can mean a vareity of things and obviously $45K doesn't buy as much as it used to. But, man! I'm just not seeing where that much money was spent. The fender bolt heads under the hood are painted over suggesting a budget cost paint job - let's say $5K at best. The dash doesn't look fresh (dull/nicked pot metal and chipped paint), so unless some of the gauges were replaced, I don't think it receved a lot of attention. That leaves $40K or so for the rest of the car. Unless the entire engine was rebuilt by a well-known speed shop with all high-performance parts and enough suspension mods were made so it corners like a slot car (doubtful), it's hard for me to imagine that much money was spent. But, maybe I'd be surprised. I'd like to see the receipts as to what the money was spent on.
Admittedly, I've not seen photos of the underside. But, if it looks as bad as the trunk compartment (anybody else think that looks bush league?), then I'd be leery. OK, so this car is worth less than the $37K (essentially) asking price. Keeping in mind this car was supposedly "restored" in 2007 to the tune of around $45K, how does that translate to market value? I'll throw out a figure of $25K and that's assuming the car is clean underneath. Too high? Too low? Just right?
I remember watching a '64 go through last year or the year before that was just perfect. Gorgeous maroon color, too. Hammered down at well under $20k. I couldn't believe it. I know '64 isn't a preferred year, but still...
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
It's like the ponies---there are all sorts of angles on playing the game.
sometimes bidders outsmart themselves---they overhead some guy saying "oh that car is all wrong", and they believe him. And HE'S wrong.
Buyers will forgive defects in a regular restoration that they will not tolerate in a customization. They seem to hold customs to a higher standard because they are not paying for authenticity, they are paying for the curb appeal and the pizazz IMO.
I do think a car like this will be a b**ch to sell.
In terms of the quality of the details, one can only hope the consignor spent more time on other parts of the car than he did in the trunk compartment. Not saying the trunk is the key to a great car. But, it could be an indicator as to the quality of the rest of the car.
it's just the wrong, wrong car to attempt to hot-rod or customize.
It reminds me of the type of car a 72-year old congressman would buy for his Las Vegas showgirl mistress named Kiki.
Hey! Maybe I found the market! Get me Washington on the phone!
Also they don't list huge swaths of cars which they do not deem "collectible" or "classic", and I don't blame them.
I'd probably buy it but I have an Andriod, so I'm not in the Apple zombie network. :P
Shifty - I don't have an iphone either, but I do have an ipod touch. I resisted apple for a long time, but now that I have one, I highly suggest it. It is a cool toy, and not very expensive. (one like I have is down to $149 refurbed.)
Heck, just ordered an iPad for the wife since the 1st gen price finally dropped thanks to the iPad2. Did even better getting a refurbed one from apple for $349.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
I use the little pocket-sized CPI (Black Book) guide when I'm out in the field. It's actually faster and easier than whipping out a smartphone and covers more levels of condition that the Sports Car Market APP, which is really only about #2 cars.
Manheim has an app for blackberrys, for subscribers.. I'm sure they have one for Android, as well.... It's pretty neat...and quick.
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A co-worker of mine has a used car lot.... so, I get to play around with Manheim website and mobile apps.. Comes in handy when you are shopping for a car..
I'm not even sure they would sell it to someone without a dealer's license.. maybe, if one were in the appraisal or insurance business..
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What do you guys think?
http://seattle.craigslist.org/est/cto/2274686165.html
Mercer Island is halfway between Seattle and Bellevue and it's an affulent area sittin gin the middle of Lake Washington served by one of our floating bridges. The "232" prefix is correct for Mercer Island but there is one too many digits in his phone number. I tried calling a couple of possible combinations but struck out.
I suspect, it's a POS.
And, fintail, I'll be TICKED if I found out you ran over there and bought it out from under me! I know you work 5 minutes away from M.I.
Probably just another Craigslist stroke.
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It's possible someone rushed over there and snapped it up!
Anyway, I e-mail the guy pretending to be a ready-to-buy/guy, and got the "Google checkout" routine, (sure I'll send $21,000 to a stranger to "hold" for me) and the "I'm in Canada right now but I'll fly down to meet you" and "I have to sell it cheap since I need to pay my rent"....blah blah blah. I asked him if he was in Nigeria but never got back another e-mail.
Lots of ads on craigslist from flippers wanting old sports cars for nothing, one of them probably stalks the listings and replied first.
If that ad were near me, I'd have it in my driveway as of 7 AM this morning. You can flip just about any TR3 that isn't in 35 separate cardboard boxes.
The bad phone number did make me leary.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Probably not just cars either.
I once bought an Isuzu pickup diesel and I kept it a couple of years before I had no use for it. I had NO IDEA that these are (were, anyway) highly sought after and near impossible to find.
I immediatly got a call for m a guy who rushed over and gave me a deposit. He told me he would have the cash in two days.
I had two days of non stop phone calls including several from a woman who kept offering me more and more for it. She finally offered me 500.00 more than I sold it for.
I did take her number in case my buyer flaked out but he did show up as promised.
I screwed up but a handshake is a handshake.
It was sitting on a lot with a For Sale sign when I bought it. I almost passed because it was a diesel. It was slow but very rugged.
I'll bet I got 25 phone calls on it.
Trucks are always hard to value because they still have utilitarian value, unlike old cars. A gardener looks at a beat-up truck as a still valuable tool, whereas a car collector looks at a beat up old car as something needing time and money.
Thanks ya'll.
-Kels
pristine--mint, like new
clean-- (clean in and out)
average --has some stains, small dings, chips, could use a coat of wax
fair -- car looks like it has needs even from across the street
poor -- a very shabby automobile
I mean, I didn't pay a huge amount for it, but I would love to get back at least what I paid for it. And, I don't want someone to low ball me and me just take it because I don't know the worth. That's why I thought I would ask around and get some opinions.
Thanks in advance!
Dan">
Thanks for your help!!
Dan