What is this thing worth?

Mr_Shiftright · February 2011

Well, to each his own certainly, but I think the color is a most unfortunate choice for a 60s "Bird", and this will hurt value; as for "which is worth more---stock or restored?" in this case, IMO, the answer is easy---nobody mods a '62 T-Bird, so people are not used to it and probably will not value it as highly as a stock model. Keep in mind that a '62 'Bird is a tank and is not going to perform like a '62 Chevy resto-mod---the latter could be a tricked out Biscayne with big block and all the mod goodies and would certainly bring a higher price than stock.

The car LOOKS to be well done, however, but without eyeballs it's hard to give a value---"god is in the details" on a restoration and this car could be great, or it could, in reality, be a 20/20 car (looks good at 20 mph from 20 feet away).

What do eyeballs tell you that a camera doesn't? Well, I'd look for:

1. condition of all door and window seals
2. what's the car like underneath---suspension bushings? oil leaks? welding?
3. any body filler?
4. is the interior and exterior scratched up with fine-line marks?
5. how does it drive?

$45K is chump change on a full-blown restoration these days. :surprise:

qbrozen · February 2011

Can't say I've kept up on these, but I didn't think 60s birds went that high.(??)

So I took a quick look ... BJ had a nice yellow one go through 2011 Scottsdale at $27,500. They also had a white one that was a "nice driver with older restoration" go through Palm Beach for $20,900.

So I'm not sure what warrants an extra $10k for this dealer's car.

The only ones I'm seeing higher ($55k) are the Sports model. Not that I have ANY idea what that means, but they are touting the low build number, so it must have been a special package.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2011

Oh I think the market for a nicely restored '62 Bird convertible is higher than that. A really tasty one could get $40K.

The problem with valuing resto-rods is that unless it has one some meaningful awards at judging events, we have no way to assess the quality of the workmanship.

With a stock restoration, we can assume that if it wins some trophies, it's pretty nice AND it drives like it should.

But with an un-judged resto-mod that we've never driven, we have not idea of the workmanship, nor can we know if the car drives like a "[non-permissible content removed]".

I've driven some very nice looking resto-rods that drove like crap---they vibrated, they handled like bread vans on the one hand, or felt like they had cinder blocks in place of springs, on the other.

While a stock restoration is about just that--"restoration"---a resto-rod is also about engineering and fabrication.

One simple example. You change the engine or the differential from stock, and you don't figure out the proper driveshaft angles----that can just ruin a car's drivability. Or let's say too much engine heat (improper insulation).

parm · February 2011

In terms of the paint color, I think the seller wanted to turn this car into a little hot rod and leave stock appearances behind. At that point, it's no harm, no foul in my book - just so long as its not metal flake purple or something equally hideous.

As you know, "restored" can mean a vareity of things and obviously $45K doesn't buy as much as it used to. But, man! I'm just not seeing where that much money was spent. The fender bolt heads under the hood are painted over suggesting a budget cost paint job - let's say $5K at best. The dash doesn't look fresh (dull/nicked pot metal and chipped paint), so unless some of the gauges were replaced, I don't think it receved a lot of attention. That leaves $40K or so for the rest of the car. Unless the entire engine was rebuilt by a well-known speed shop with all high-performance parts and enough suspension mods were made so it corners like a slot car (doubtful), it's hard for me to imagine that much money was spent. But, maybe I'd be surprised. I'd like to see the receipts as to what the money was spent on.

Admittedly, I've not seen photos of the underside. But, if it looks as bad as the trunk compartment (anybody else think that looks bush league?), then I'd be leery. OK, so this car is worth less than the $37K (essentially) asking price. Keeping in mind this car was supposedly "restored" in 2007 to the tune of around $45K, how does that translate to market value? I'll throw out a figure of $25K and that's assuming the car is clean underneath. Too high? Too low? Just right?

qbrozen · February 2011

If that's the case, this might be one of those rare instances where bidders were asleep at the wheel OR it was a rare dog at BJ Scottsdale. Seems to me they don't allow those, but TV is a funny thing.

I remember watching a '64 go through last year or the year before that was just perfect. Gorgeous maroon color, too. Hammered down at well under $20k. I couldn't believe it. I know '64 isn't a preferred year, but still...

Mr_Shiftright · February 2011

They do occasionally fall asleep at the wheel---the car comes on the ramp at a bad time of day, or the big bidders are all bidded out, or the car is not the "flavor of the month" that's been hyped by the media machine.

It's like the ponies---there are all sorts of angles on playing the game.

sometimes bidders outsmart themselves---they overhead some guy saying "oh that car is all wrong", and they believe him. And HE'S wrong.

parm · February 2011

So then, what's a fair price for this '62 T-Bird convertible?

Mr_Shiftright · February 2011

I couldn't say without seeing it I don't think, because the value of a custom is all in the details.

Buyers will forgive defects in a regular restoration that they will not tolerate in a customization. They seem to hold customs to a higher standard because they are not paying for authenticity, they are paying for the curb appeal and the pizazz IMO.

I do think a car like this will be a b**ch to sell.

parm · February 2011

While I agree a car that's done "to taste" takes a buyer with the same taste, to me this car would have a fairly broad audience. It's not gaudy, IMO. More sporty than anything else and I would think that would increase its odds at selling. Then again, horses for courses . . . . .

In terms of the quality of the details, one can only hope the consignor spent more time on other parts of the car than he did in the trunk compartment. Not saying the trunk is the key to a great car. But, it could be an indicator as to the quality of the rest of the car.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2011

Gee I don't see much appeal for this car at all. It's not authentic, the color is marginal, the price is high. It's an old folks' car in a "youthful" wrapping. I'm just not seein' it from your point of view, but hey, I've certainly been wrong plenty times before on this stuff....

it's just the wrong, wrong car to attempt to hot-rod or customize.

It reminds me of the type of car a 72-year old congressman would buy for his Las Vegas showgirl mistress named Kiki.

Hey! Maybe I found the market! Get me Washington on the phone!

texases · March 2011

Anyone try this yet? It's FREE!

Mr_Shiftright · March 2011

Oh that's the Sports Car Market price guide---they're pretty good but you have to understand that the prices are related to the condition of the cars, and generally they are talking about really really nice cars---so cars with some "needs" need not apply.

Also they don't list huge swaths of cars which they do not deem "collectible" or "classic", and I don't blame them.

I'd probably buy it but I have an Andriod, so I'm not in the Apple zombie network. :P

qbrozen · March 2011

sweet.

Shifty - I don't have an iphone either, but I do have an ipod touch. I resisted apple for a long time, but now that I have one, I highly suggest it. It is a cool toy, and not very expensive. (one like I have is down to $149 refurbed.)

Heck, just ordered an iPad for the wife since the 1st gen price finally dropped thanks to the iPad2. Did even better getting a refurbed one from apple for $349.

Mr_Shiftright · March 2011

You know what they say about Steve Jobs--that he can actually project a reality distortion field onto consumers. But then, all good marketing does that. Motor Trend often does it with their Car of the Year!

I use the little pocket-sized CPI (Black Book) guide when I'm out in the field. It's actually faster and easier than whipping out a smartphone and covers more levels of condition that the Sports Car Market APP, which is really only about #2 cars.

kyfdx · March 2011

Not for collector cars.... but, used cars in general:

Manheim has an app for blackberrys, for subscribers.. I'm sure they have one for Android, as well.... It's pretty neat...and quick.

Mr_Shiftright · March 2011

manheim is good for ordinary used cars--but it's quite expensive isn't it?

kyfdx · March 2011

Well, yeah.... it's for car dealers!

A co-worker of mine has a used car lot.... so, I get to play around with Manheim website and mobile apps.. Comes in handy when you are shopping for a car..

I'm not even sure they would sell it to someone without a dealer's license.. maybe, if one were in the appraisal or insurance business..

Mr_Shiftright · March 2011

It would be kind of overkill for an appraiser.

isellhondas · March 2011

This one is ten minutes from me.

What do you guys think?

http://seattle.craigslist.org/est/cto/2274686165.html

Mr_Shiftright · March 2011

If it's not a) a scam and b) rusted beyond salvation, I'd go for it and buy it immediately. You could flip it for $5K in a red hot minute, maybe $7500 if the sheet metal is good and the engine can be turned by hand.

isellhondas · March 2011

Too many digits in his phone number but I did email him so I'll let you know what happens.

Mr_Shiftright · March 2011

A good tip off to a scam will be when he e-mails you and tells you he is not living in the same place as the car but would be willing to meet you, but doesn't want the expense of traveling to meet a "non-serious" buyer, so could you please use "Google Checkout" as a way of putting a deposit in escrow.

fintail · March 2011

The background in the photo is definitely local, so it has that much going for it - most of the time scam ads will show a car in an obviously far away location but claim it is in Seattle etc. That being said, the price does seem suspiciously low, the car is either an absolute heap or the seller has received 20 emails by now.

Mr_Shiftright · March 2011

It could be riddled with rust, which makes it essentially a pile of parts or a restoration project of epic proportions. But you know, just a few holes in the trunk floor or floor pans wouldn't be so bad. But rust in the rockers, or at the suspension mounting points---that's a very ugly proposition and a long, long row to hoe.

isellhondas · March 2011

Yeah, I was looking at the background plants and it sure does look local.

Mercer Island is halfway between Seattle and Bellevue and it's an affulent area sittin gin the middle of Lake Washington served by one of our floating bridges. The "232" prefix is correct for Mercer Island but there is one too many digits in his phone number. I tried calling a couple of possible combinations but struck out.

I suspect, it's a POS.

And, fintail, I'll be TICKED if I found out you ran over there and bought it out from under me! I know you work 5 minutes away from M.I.

fintail · March 2011

I also live 5 minutes from there. I thought about trying the phone number removing various digits, but I'm too lazy - I need that old car like I need a hole in my head, one old beast is one more than I need, and I'd have nowhere to put it anyway. I have no plans to buy another old car unless it is a huge crazy deal that I could flip...only things I think I really want for myse;f would be a LWB 300SE fintail or a Universal wagon, preferably W111.

isellhondas · March 2011

No phone call and no email.

Probably just another Craigslist stroke.

kyfdx · March 2011

And.. the ad is gone..

isellhondas · March 2011

Oh, it is?

It's possible someone rushed over there and snapped it up!

Mr_Shiftright · March 2011

Client called me last week from east coast...wanted me to look at a '62 Vette advertised as "pristine" for $21,000. I told him right away "too good to be true" and the photos were gorgeous.

Anyway, I e-mail the guy pretending to be a ready-to-buy/guy, and got the "Google checkout" routine, (sure I'll send $21,000 to a stranger to "hold" for me) and the "I'm in Canada right now but I'll fly down to meet you" and "I have to sell it cheap since I need to pay my rent"....blah blah blah. I asked him if he was in Nigeria but never got back another e-mail.

fintail · March 2011

Could be. I think it was a legit ad, pic looked right, phone number was (almost) correct.

Lots of ads on craigslist from flippers wanting old sports cars for nothing, one of them probably stalks the listings and replied first.

Mr_Shiftright · March 2011

sometimes a legit seller gets like 50 phone calls on the first day, and withdraws the ad because he realizes he posted it too cheap.

If that ad were near me, I'd have it in my driveway as of 7 AM this morning. You can flip just about any TR3 that isn't in 35 separate cardboard boxes.

isellhondas · March 2011

Hey, I tried!

The bad phone number did make me leary.

Mr_Shiftright · March 2011

I wonder if that was deliberate, the bad # ? Forces you to e-mail and let appears legit in the ad, to suck you in.

qbrozen · March 2011

good deals do come up on craigslist. I don't think that price on the TR3 was crazy cheap given the condition, but I could be wrong, of course. Not everybody knows the fair market value of a car. I'd like to think everything I've bought on ebay and craigs was a good deal. I mean, the rust-free 300Z for $1k stands out to me. It was a case of the seller not knowing what he had and putting up a really crappy ad with one crappy pic. The 740 wagon I bought for my brother for $1100 with less than 100k miles was another one. It does happen.

Mr_Shiftright · March 2011

Yep, the price on the TR3 was crazy cheap. You can sell a really ratty one for $10,000 no problem. The Volvo you mentioned (about a 90 or 91?) is market correct, sorta kinda, for a clean one---maybe $1500 tops. The TR is a highly prized collectible is the reason, whereas the Volvo is just an old used car in plentiful supply.

isellhondas · March 2011

I'm sure there are "Curbstoners" who monitor the Craigslist ads like a hawk and when they see something that is undervalued they rush over and buy it.

Probably not just cars either.

I once bought an Isuzu pickup diesel and I kept it a couple of years before I had no use for it. I had NO IDEA that these are (were, anyway) highly sought after and near impossible to find.

I immediatly got a call for m a guy who rushed over and gave me a deposit. He told me he would have the cash in two days.

I had two days of non stop phone calls including several from a woman who kept offering me more and more for it. She finally offered me 500.00 more than I sold it for.

I did take her number in case my buyer flaked out but he did show up as promised.

I screwed up but a handshake is a handshake.

Mr_Shiftright · March 2011

I think the Isuzu gold rush is over but maybe it's a cult thing. If it were a 4X4 space cab that might be worth something.

isellhondas · March 2011

This was a low mile rust free little truck.

It was sitting on a lot with a For Sale sign when I bought it. I almost passed because it was a diesel. It was slow but very rugged.

I'll bet I got 25 phone calls on it.

Mr_Shiftright · March 2011

Well depends on your price of course. Put $5900 and the phone wouldn't ring, but $2000 and it might.

Trucks are always hard to value because they still have utilitarian value, unlike old cars. A gardener looks at a beat-up truck as a still valuable tool, whereas a car collector looks at a beat up old car as something needing time and money.

coupeeznthru2 · June 2011

Hey, Mr shiftright, was wondering how much you found out about your 68 BB convt. I too have a 68 BB SS convt,w/th400. I'm new here and hope to find some intresting ides maybe some (Facts) also, Thanks

Mr_Shiftright · June 2011

Not MY BB, but a member's. What info are you looking for about your car?

kelseylinn · November 2011

I am trying to figure out the worth of my car. Either to sell for parts or just if someone wanted to fix it up. It is a blue 1990 supercharged ford thunderbird with about 66,000 miles on it. Something is up with the ABS system and we've had it looked at and the part is still under warranty. Also, something is draining the battery in about a days time and my mom and I cannot figure out what it is. I know very little about cars and have been told by a lot of people that I could get some money off of the engine. I dont have a clue if this is true so I am kind of just looking for an opinion from someone on how much they think this car is worth or the engine alone.
Thanks ya'll.

-Kels

Mr_Shiftright · November 2011

We' d need some idea of the condition of the body, the paint and the interior, like:

pristine--mint, like new
clean-- (clean in and out)
average --has some stains, small dings, chips, could use a coat of wax
fair -- car looks like it has needs even from across the street
poor -- a very shabby automobile

gsemike · November 2011

Not much.

kelseylinn · November 2011

I'd say its Average.
I mean, I didn't pay a huge amount for it, but I would love to get back at least what I paid for it. And, I don't want someone to low ball me and me just take it because I don't know the worth. That's why I thought I would ask around and get some opinions.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2011

Well given the mechanical issues and the "average" condition, and that you can find them pretty clean and running well for around $3000, I'd say $1500 is the full blue sky limit on this, and I'd take any close offer to that, down to say $1K.

dschluer · February 2012

Can anyone identify this wayward bumper? Is it worth more than scrap? I won't sell it unless I can identify it.

Thanks in advance!

Dan">

Mr_Shiftright · February 2012

Looks 50s truck-ish.

dschluer · February 2012

Good lead! With a little research based on 1950's truck bumpers I found that this appears to be a front bumper for a Chevy/GMC, 2nd Series, 1955 - 1959.

Thanks for your help!!

Dan

What is this thing worth?

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