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Are automobiles a major cause of global warming?

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  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450

    This really makes you wonder about the scientific community pushing the GW Agenda:

    Today, while shopping at lunchtime for some last minute year end supplies, I got one of the strangest cell-phone calls ever. It was from my friend John Coleman, the founder of the Weather Channel and Chief meteorologist at KUSI-TV in San Diego. He was calling via cell phone from his car, and he was on his way into the TV station early.

    He started off by saying, “Anthony, we have a really strange situation here”.

    Then to my surprise, he relayed a conversation he had just had; a person on the Akademik Shokalskiy had reached out, because they didn’t have adequate weather data on-board. At first, I thought John was pulling my leg, but then as he gave more details, I realized he was serious.

    What had happened was that the US Coast Guard had received a message from the ship, requesting weather and wind information for Antarctica. That got relayed to someone at the Scripps oceanographic Institute in San Diego, and it went to John’s weekend KUSI meteorologist Dave Scott. Dave had worked with a scientist who is now on the US Coast Guard IceBreaker Polar Star, and they had logged the request for weather for forecast data from Akademik Shokalskiy. That’s how all this got started.

    The message was that they needed better weather information on the ship than they had, specifically about wind and how it might affect the breakup of sea ice. John asked me to gather everything I had on the area and send it, and also to help him contact Joe D’Aleo of WeatherBell Analytics, because somehow John’s cellphone had gotten stuck into some sort of “private caller” mode and Joe wasn’t answering his phone due to how the incoming call looked.

    My first thought was that no matter how much we’ve been criticizing the expedition for its silliness, that if such a request had reached all the way from Antarctica to me, I’d do everything I could to help.

    I told John “give me 15 minutes”, which was about the time I’d need to get out of COSTCO and get back to my office and send along some things I knew would help.

    I immediately called Joe D’Aleo at WeatherBell, who was as incredulous as I at the request, and asked him to call John Coleman right away. I explained to him that we had to remember that we were dealing with a Russian ship, not a military ship, but a charter vessel and they likely didn’t have all the tools that American meteorologists had and may not even know where to look for better data. I also pointed out that the Australian scientists on-board were climatologists, and not operational weather forecasters, and finding this sort of weather data probably wasn’t in their skill set.

    Joe started working from the WeatherBell end, I finished my shopping and headed back to the office. As I drove, I started thinking about the situation with the ship there. They had wind compressing the ice into shore, with the Akademik Shokalskiy in the middle, and the wind wasn’t changing. They needed a wind shift in order to ease the pressure on the ice but they had no idea when that might happen. It was a waiting game, and as we know, the longer a ship remains trapped in sea ice, the greater its chances of having a hull breach due to the pressure.

    I knew just what to send, because it was something that had been discussed several times by commenters on WUWT. See more

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/12/31/wuwt-and-weatherbell-help-kusi-tv-with-a-weather-forecasting-request-from-ice-trapped-ship-in-antarctica-akademik-shokalskiy/

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450

    Looks like the Chinese are taking over control of the World Seas. Where is the US Coast Guard in this rescue operation?

    “The Chinese helicopter has arrived @ the Shokalskiy. It’s 100% we’re off! A huge thanks to all,” Turney tweeted, following it up with another update when he tweeted: “The first of the helicopters to take us home. Thanks everyone.”

    “Take off! Second team gone,” Turney tweeted after the second batch of passengers were lifted off to safety.

    http://www.ibtimes.com/long-awaited-rescue-begins-mv-akademik-shokalskiy-trapped-sea-ice-antarctica-passengers-be-rescued

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited January 2014

    @gagrice said:
    Where is the US Coast Guard in this rescue operation?

    Amver is behind the scenes. The rest of the crews are filming for that reality show up in Kodiak. :p

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132

    Is this the ship that's there to study global warming but instead got stuck in the ice that's supposedly melting away because of my Buick leSabre using oil? Hee hee. Most reports about the ship's predicament leave out that they are there to study that elusive "Global Warming Trend"!

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327

    Interesting post Gary. Heck, I did not know you were a celebrity ! Your friend that got rich from the weather channel got in some good licks ! Good for him.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454

    How thick is it?

    Having had time to pay much attention but did notice this tidbit at weatherunderground.

    Warmest November since records began in 1880

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited January 2014

    I have a hard time trusting any data that comes from people that can lose their job for telling the truth. That would include EPA, NOAA, NASA, NSDC etc etc

    **For all you idiots that think climate skeptics are lavishly funded by ‘Big Oil’, read this
    Posted on January 3, 2014 by Guest Blogger
    **
    Michael Mann, take note. One of the most ridiculous claims made by climate alarmists is that skeptics get huge gobs of oil coated money. For example, there is the recent claim:

    _Billion-dollar climate denial network exposed

    An extensive study into the financial networks that support groups denying the science behind climate change and opposing political action has found a vast, secretive web of think tanks and industry associations, bankrolled by conservative billionaires.

    "I call it the climate-change counter movement,” study author Robert Brulle, who published his results in the journal Climatic Change, told the Guardian. “It is not just a couple of rogue individuals doing this. This is a large-scale political effort.”_

    I’m sure if there was such money to go around, this event today would not be happening. Read this.

    http://bobtisdale.wordpress.com/2014/01/03/im-retiring-from-full-time-climate-change-blogging/

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450

    New truths about Antarctic revealed:

    Dr Pierre Dutrieux of the BAS adds, bluntly:

    "We found ocean melting of the glacier was the lowest ever recorded, and less than half of that observed in 2010. This enormous, and unexpected, variability contradicts the widespread view that a simple and steady ocean warming in the region is eroding the West Antarctic Ice Sheet."

    The Science paper can be read by subscribers to the journal here. The BAS announcement of the results can be read here. Readers unfamiliar with the rules of the climate game should note that the term "climate variability" as used in those documents means for this purpose "climate effects not caused by humans"

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/01/03/antarctic_ice_shelf_melt_lowest_ever_recorded_just_not_much_affected_by_global_warming/

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited January 2014

    Interesting, since it's so "close" to Oz.

    Australia swelters under a sham climate change policy after hottest year on record

    That's from theguardian.com in the UK. Wonder how their politics come down compared to theregister.com. B) (No love lost per wikipedia).

    I gotta go with the Guardian - they're textile people. :)

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited January 2014

    What I find interesting with the anti coal arguments, are the fact that most scientists say the SoX put out by burning coal has contributed to the cooling. I have no doubt the climate is changing, some places warmer others cooler. I just don't buy the political anthropological blame for the changes. We have killed a large part of our ability to compete in the 21st century by going along with the political agenda on cutting coal & killing mining of essential REEs. Then the same people whine about the Chinese building our solar panels and wind generators. Well duh, what did they expect?

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454

    What's really interesting to me, perhaps not much affecting global warming, is that people aren't driving as much nor are they buying as many cars as they did.

    And if apps like Uber take off, combined with autonomous cars, more Zipcars, etc., private car sales may really fall off. Not to mention bus and taxi use. The side effect could be lower emissions.

    Here's a more recent Uber story, also from Wired.

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450

    I hope you are right because I HATE sharing the road with all those people. :) I personally look for the economy to really tank this year and those rosy projections for more car sales will fall short. Our jobless rate has NOT fallen, only people giving up. They are not included. I know 3 young people that have looked for over 2 years for a job. Two are college grads. The entry level employers don't want to give them a job they may bail out of in a few months. All living at home along with millions of other 18-30 year olds. I blame a lot of our lousy economy on the ECO NUTS pushing the illusive green agenda. It has NOT produced enough jobs to spit at.

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450

    Help is on the way. Why did the Aussies and Ruskies take so long to ask for help?

    The request for the Polar Star to assist the beset vessels was made by RCC Australia to the US Coast Guard on 3 January, 2014. The US Coast Guard officially accepted this request and released the Polar Star to RCC Australia for search and rescue tasking at 8.30am on 4 January, 2014.

    The Polar Star will leave Sydney today after taking on supplies prior to its voyage to Antarctica.

    It is anticipated it will take approximately seven (7) days for the Polar Star to reach Commonwealth Bay, dependent on weather and ice conditions.

    At 122 metres, the Polar Star is one of the largest ships in the US Coast Guard fleet. It has a range of 16,000 nautical miles at 18 knots. The Polar Star has a crew of 140 people.
    The Polar Star is able to continuously break ice up to 1.8 metres (6ft) while travelling at three (3) knots and can break ice over six (21ft) metres thick.

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/01/04/usa-to-the-rescue-us-coast-guard-ice-breaker-asked-to-assist-antarctic-rescue-vessels-trapped-in-ice-due-to-spiritofmawson-fiasco/

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited January 2014

    Sounds like an expensive undertaking. But the powers that be will file the cost under "good training" for jockeying for position in the melting Arctic (melting is their word, not mine). (adn.com)

  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345

    @gagrice said:
    Help is on the way. Why did the Aussies and Ruskies take so long to ask for help?

    At 122 metres, the Polar Star is one of the largest ships in the US Coast Guard fleet. It has a range of 16,000 nautical miles at 18 knots. The Polar Star has a crew of 140 people.
    The Polar Star is able to continuously break ice up to 1.8 metres (6ft) while travelling at three (3) knots and can break ice over six (21ft) metres thick.

    Lots of power behind all that weight. Those thicknesses are simply incredible. You can be sure it ain't no gas job doing all that work..

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited January 2014

    "Polar Star's three shafts are turned by either a diesel-electric or gas turbine power plant. Each shaft is connected to a 16-foot (4.9 m) diameter, four-bladed, controllable-pitch propeller. The diesel-electric plant can produce 18,000 shaft horsepower (13 MW) and the gas turbine plant a total of 75,000 shaft horsepower (56 MW)." (wikipedia)


    Now that I think about it, I guess it's heading for Antarctica because all the ice is melting in the Arctic this year so they won't have anything to do north of the equator. :D

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450

    @Stever@Edmunds said:
    Sounds like an expensive undertaking. But the powers that be will file the cost under "good training" for jockeying for position in the melting Arctic (melting is their word, not mine). (adn.com)

    You are a diehard believer for sure. That is an interesting article how our lazy liberal government has let the rest of the World get ahead of US in the Arctic. It will be a much better route from Asia to the East Coast than the Panama Canal. Not to mention tourists watching polar bears floating by on tiny little chunks of ice. You can have all that cold, I want to live where it is warm. Bring on the GW. How many feet did you say the ocean would rise. I want to have beach front property.

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited January 2014

    You do get another prospective occasionally reading the Anchorage Daily News. Liberal rag it may be, it does cover the Arctic more that the Outside media. There's another recent article about building a "fancy" harbor in Nome since cruise ships are going there now, and they want to go further north. Shades of Uncle Ted and I think both Lisa and Begich are both behind it.

    "The lack of a deep-water harbor along Alaska's north and west coasts has been a point of concern as climate warming has made Arctic waters more accessible and nations have taken an interest in the region's resources."

    Thinking about the ships stuck in the ice reminds me of the pics of the cranes falling into the harbor trying to recover a sunk car off a pier. (hoax-slayer.com)

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited January 2014

    Better toe the Pseudo Science of the GWarmers or you are in trouble.

    **What Catastrophe? MIT’s Richard Lindzen, the unalarmed climate scientist **

    In his mid-seventies, married with two sons, and now emeritus at MIT, Lindzen spends between four and six months a year at his second home in Paris. But that doesn’t mean he’s no longer in the thick of the climate controversy; he writes, gives myriad talks, participates in debates, and occasionally testifies before Congress. In an eventful life, Lindzen has made the strange journey from being a pioneer in his field and eventual IPCC coauthor to an outlier in the discipline—if not an outcast.

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/what-catastrophe_773268.html#

  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327

    The GW crowd has been using the very derogatory term GW deniers to describe those of us who don't think the debate is over. Now the term Global Cooling deniers seems to fit them.

    Throughout history every true scientist has always pursued the truth, no matter where that truth may lead. Understanding always changes and evolves. When a "scientist" tells you the debate is over, that person is not a scientist, he is a fool.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450

    @houdini1 said:

    Throughout history every true scientist has always pursued the truth, no matter where that truth may lead. Understanding always changes and evolves. When a "scientist" tells you the debate is over, that person is not a scientist, he is a fool.

    That would be my view of science in general. Look at history hardly a day goes by that some new discovery refutes some long accepted theory. Warmers are the flat earth bunch of the 21st century.

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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,097
    edited January 2014

    I've always seen the use of "denier" in this context to capitalize on the usage of holocaust "denier", maybe associating with the wrongness and unpleasantness of those who fall under the latter, and the emotion that comes with it. Words can be chosen for the greatest impact, and the GW community is as apt to propaganda as anyone.

    @houdini1 said:
    The GW crowd has been using the very derogatory term GW deniers to describe those of us who don't think the debate is over. Now the term Global Cooling deniers seems to fit them.

    Throughout history every true scientist has always pursued the truth, no matter where that truth may lead. Understanding always changes and evolves. When a "scientist" tells you the debate is over, that person is not a scientist, he is a fool.

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450

    In the case of the GW political machine I would say they are in denial. The Northern Hemisphere is going through record cold this winter. Looking at Sydney, Cairnes and Perth they are below normal for this time of year. What I am seeing in the MSM is hanging onto any glimmer of hope that their Man Made GW is real. Science is not important to schmucks like Al Gore. The political agenda is foremost in his mind. You could freeze him in his mansion in Malibu and he would still keep preaching the agenda. That is what politicians do. Man is NOT putting out less CO2 than 20 years ago. Yet it is cooler across the globe. No matter how the government agencies try to spin the data. If the theory of more CO2 means warmer temps, the theory is flawed.

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454

    Need to work out a swap.

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450

    If he is seeing an actual 122-126 F ambient temeperature, where is he and what would be normal for this time of year? According to Weather Underground Perth hit 84F yesterday, normal 86F. Sydney was 70F yesterday normal 77F record 96F. High for Australia was 111F at Telfer, with a low of 24F at Perisher Valley.

    And our NWS said it was in the 70s yesterday which is not true. It was a beautiful 68 with an over night low of 49. If you listen to the forecasts on radio they will drop numbers like the 70s and low 80s. Don't believe it. We have had great weather over the last week but no 70s. High 60s and low 50s over night. The valleys are cooler overnight. Some dropped into the 30s around us. Still have to have a fire in the wood stove or run the furnace. They filled my propane yesterday @ $3.79 GGE. 48 days on that tank cost to refill $468. Or $9.75 per day to keep the house at 68 cold degrees. A little more warming would be nice with the eco nuts running up the cost of our utilities.

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454

    You don't know Graham? He's a hoot.

    Forget where he lives, but he does travel the country a lot. And it's a big country.

    You'll recall that Australia is so hot they had to add new colors to the weather map. (washingtonpost.com)

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450

    Graham sounds like someone from a Jeeves and Wooster story. Love the British humo(u)r.

    Wasn't the lowest temperatures also recorded down under. Bunch of extremist on the bottom of the globe. :) I have been outside in -58 F and survived. I have worked out in chill factor of more than -100 F and that is miserable.

    Ted Scambos, lead scientist at the National Snow and Ice Data Center (NSIDC), and his team found temperatures from −92 to −94 degrees Celsius (−134 to −137 degrees Fahrenheit) in a 1,000-kilometer long swath on the highest section of the East Antarctic ice divide.

    The measurements were made between 2003 and 2013 by the Moderate Resolution Imaging Spectroradiometer (MODIS) sensor on board NASA’s Aqua satellite and during the 2013 Southern Hemisphere winter by Landsat 8, a new satellite launched early this year by NASA and the U.S. Geological Survey.

    “I’ve never been in conditions that cold and I hope I never am,” Scambos said. “I am told that every breath is painful and you have to be extremely careful not to freeze part of your throat or lungs when inhaling.”

    http://nsidc.org/news/press/2013_ColdestPlace_PR.html

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450

    Is radiation from unknown sources a bigger threat than CC? We along the Coast have reason to be concerned about Fukishima radiation. It is in the fish from Baja to Alaska. Now this new threat.

    International Medcom CEO Dan Sythe later put the dirt sample in a spectrum analyzer to view the radioactive “signature” of the particles, the photon energy associated with each isotope. What he found was different from cesium-137, the fissile material used in the Fukushima reactors. He would know – since the 2011 meltdown, Sythe has visited Japan nine times to help map the cesium fallout.

    Instead he was seeing radium and thorium, naturally occurring radioactive elements.

    “It doesn’t mean that it‘s OK. It's not something you'd want your baby playing in,” Sythe said. “All we’re saying is this radiation is not from Fukushima.”

    Sythe summarized his findings on his blog in the hopes that it would dispel a sense of panic spreading on the Internet that Fukushima radiation was hitting U.S. shores. People were posting online claiming that the West Coast would soon be “toast,” he said, so it was vital to get better information online.

    http://www.hmbreview.com/news/experts-say-beach-radiation-unrelated-to-fukushima/article_d3bb5b14-77ea-11e3-a37b-001a4bcf887a.html

  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,685

    Those folks would be REALLY terrified if they were aware of all the natural radiation they get every moment of every day, from cosmic rays, local dirt, whatever. Once diluted by the oceans and atmosphere there is no appreciable change from those 'background' levels possible on the west coast, unless one started eating fish caught offshore Fukushima (now that's a BAD idea).

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450

    They caught 15 Bluefin tuna off San Diego that have elevated levels of Cesium 134 & 137. Fish in Alaska are showing all sorts of strange afflictions. I quit buying any Pacific seafood over a year ago. Let someone else find out if it is safe. I don't want to glow in the dark.

    http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/12/fukushima-radiation-something-else-causing-mass-die-wildlife-pacific-ocean.html

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited January 2014

    Fish are pretty mobile last I looked. And stuff like cesium-137 bioaccumulates. And it's not like Tepco has turned off the spigot from the three meltdowns. And it's not like they are being very open about what's happening. (tokyo-np.co.jp)

    How about some nice whale steaks Gary? (petethomasoutdoors.com)

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450

    Never ate any whale meat. I have tried Muktuk a few times. I rate it right up with Tofu for flavor. I think we are on the same page with what is going on as a result of the Fukishima meltdown. I think it could be the biggest disaster by far of the last 100 years. Makes all the babble about GW seem insignificant. How many millions will get cancer from the fallout and seafood? At least with rising oceans you have a chance to move inland. We have a nephew that surfs here year round. He has several health issues the doctors are stumped by.

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132

    @gagrice said:
    Is radiation from unknown sources a bigger threat than CC? We along the Coast have reason to be concerned about Fukishima radiation. It is in the fish from Baja to Alaska. Now this new threat.

    Sythe summarized his findings on his blog in the hopes that it would dispel a sense of panic spreading on the Internet that Fukushima radiation was hitting U.S. shores. People were posting online claiming that the West Coast would soon be “toast,” he said, so it was vital to get better information online.

    http://www.hmbreview.com/news/experts-say-beach-radiation-unrelated-to-fukushima/article_d3bb5b14-77ea-11e3-a37b-001a4bcf887a.html

    Interesting.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited January 2014

    Much prefer tofu, never had a steak either. Frozen raw tom cod dipped in seal oil was pretty tasty though.

    It's hard to get too hot and bothered by the pollution caused by rare earth mining for solar panels after seeing all the nuke problems. People are upset that the Italian mob has been illegally dumping nuke waste offshore but the US dumped waste offshore for years and years too. And those casks are leaking or getting pulled up by fishermen.

    @imidazol97, enenews is another "interesting" site. Lot of dreck there but there is the occasional nugget. If enough flack gets raised, maybe the government will start doing a better job of getting the info out.

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450

    @Stever@Edmunds said:
    It's hard to get too hot and bothered by the pollution caused by rare earth mining for solar panels after seeing all the nuke problems. People are upset that the Italian mob has been illegally dumping nuke waste offshore but the US dumped waste offshore for years and years too. And those casks are leaking or getting pulled up by fishermen.

    No doubt about waste being dumped all over that is now becoming a problem. Many sites are quietly being cleaned up by the Feds at a very high price. Much more than disposing of them safely to start with. The $9+ billion we have given to tin pot dictators under the guise of GW could have been used much more efficiently cleaning up our messes.

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454

    lol, they "cleaned up" TMI in 12 years at a cost of $1 billion.

    The clean-up entailed sending the waste to Idaho where it's sitting around in casks. Talk about a full employment scheme for the untold decades. And the Pennsylvania rate payers or utility companies aren't on the hook for guarding that stuff (much less "processing" it).

    How hard is it to decommission a solar plant?

  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,685

    I have no problem making solar cells, or getting rid of them. It's the paying part that's the problem, along with the many square miles of countryside required to generate significant power.

    Here's what happens to a country (Spain, a prime place for solar, even) when the government supports solar, then has to abandon it or go bankrupt:

    nytimes.com/2014/01/06/world/europe/spains-solar-pullback-threatens-pocketbooks.html?partner=EXCITE&ei=5043

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450

    @Stever@Edmunds said:
    lol, they "cleaned up" TMI in 12 years at a cost of $1 billion.

    The clean-up entailed sending the waste to Idaho where it's sitting around in casks. Talk about a full employment scheme for the untold decades. And the Pennsylvania rate payers or utility companies aren't on the hook for guarding that stuff (much less "processing" it).

    How hard is it to decommission a solar plant?

    It is really difficult to tell the bank your solar panels are no longer needed and the loan on your home is still in affect. SDG&E have been grumbling about the payback from home owners with solar panels that produce more than they use. Those that bought hoping to pay off their loans could end up like the folks in Spain. And who will fix the ones that go bad 10 years from now when the Mfg is bankrupt?

    And don't forget the $4.2billion that SCE and SDG&E have to come up with to Decommission San Onofre Nuclear plant that is now shut down. Plus they still owe $2.6 billion on their loan. Best to just use coal or NG and forget all these exotic alternatives that cost more than they produce.

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited January 2014

    This has been my belief for most of my life. It is urbanization that is destroying the planet and likely causing GW. Not to mention increased crime and general Cess Pool effect of big cities.

    Urbanization Has Been Destroying the Environment Since the Very First Cities
    The development of the ancient city of Akko, roughly 6000 years ago, led to the collapse of the local ecosystem

    http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/urbanization-has-been-destroying-the-environment-since-the-very-first-cities-180948243/?utm_campaign=201401-hist&utm_medium=email&utm_source=smithsonianhistandarch

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited January 2014

    In Town vs. Country, It Turns Out That Cities Are the Safest Places to Live (Time)

    Rural areas see more days of heavy pollution than urban neighbours (edie.net)

    Where were we? Oh yeah, how do they explain the Negev in the south? Did the nomadic tribes cause it to be a desert?

    While I'm being contrary, here's a polar vortex op-ed you'll like from the Detroit Free Press:

    "[T]here’s new research suggesting that the loss of arctic ice could contribute to the movement of the polar vortex, the weather phenomenon responsible for this cold weather."

    Here's a cold hard fact - global warming is real

    In propane news, you'll enjoy this (we tried to get the in-laws to switch to NG a couple of years ago - the pipeline is just down the block).

    Propane shortage hits U.P. hard

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450

    **hardly a fair analysis including accidents with violent crime. Urbanizing is the dream of Socialist. Much easier to control people that way. **

    **Where you are in the country plays a huge role in pollution. I agree some of the foothills in So CA get pollution from the dirty city air.
    **

    Where were we? Oh yeah, how do they explain the Negev in the south? Did the nomadic tribes cause it to be a desert?

    Never been to the Negev. :p

    While I'm being contrary, here's a polar vortex op-ed you'll like from the Detroit Free Press:
    "[T]here’s new research suggesting that the loss of arctic ice could contribute to the movement of the polar vortex, the weather phenomenon responsible for this cold weather."

    All spin with few facts. CC is happening and man may contribute. Not like the politicians want US to believe. It is purely a money grab.

    In propane news, you'll enjoy this (we tried to get the in-laws to switch to NG a couple of years ago - the pipeline is just down the block).

    Still cheap. I have not paid under $2.99 GGE for propane over the last 7 years. We have no NG option within 3 miles.

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited January 2014

    Nothing is cut and dried; I just like razzing you with your declarations. B)

    After all your attempts at pigeon-holing and labeling, it's going to kill you to learn that my libations of choice are cab-sav and bourbon. :D (Washington Post)

    Back to GW, here's yet another fun link. (Scientific American).

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450

    More facts to spin away

    (NEW YORK) — In the midst of record-breaking bitter cold, the U.S. Coast Guard has been relentlessly fighting against ice buildup in the Great Lakes region in an effort to keep important shipping channels open.

    A massive swath of arctic air, known as a “Polar Vortex,” plunged temperatures well below zero from Chicago to Tulsa. In those temperatures, ice can form up to a foot thick in the rivers that connect the Great Lakes.

    The Coast Guard uses ice cutters — heavy ships that have thick, reinforced hulls and polar ice-breaking bows — to clear the major shipping route that separates the U.S. and Canada, so that freight-carrying ships can get through. Without the ice cutters, large freighters can get stuck.

    The ice cutters cut tracks throughout the channels, up and down the St. Mary’s River and through the Soo Locks. For those officers who work on the ice cutter boats, the job is far from easy.

    http://www.wwgp1050.com/2014/01/07/us-coast-guard-battles-ice-to-keep-shipping-channels-open/

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited January 2014

    The Soo Locks closing schedule was set weeks (months?) ago - "5 days until the Soo Locks are closed for the winter". Fun webcam.

    The wolves walked across the ice in the '40s to get to Isle Royale so it's gonna need to get a bit colder before that happens again. Meanwhile GW is killing them. (HuffPo)

    Love how the media splashed "frozen Niagara" all over the other day, when the falls freeze every winter.

  • ClairesClaires Member Posts: 1,222
    edited January 2014

    The author makes some pretty impressive leaps, especially this:
    "I find it odd how there aren’t even a handful of scientists who deny global warming presumably because the global warming mafia threatens to throttle them if they do... Should it be that hard for them to publish papers if the evidence is really good enough?"

    I don't remember the details but I'm pretty sure some of the emails in the East Anglia mess a few years back involved threats to publish elsewhere if a scientific journal dared to dignify a dissenting study. Judith Curry has some thoughts on the shifting standards for peer review.

    And then there's this.

    @Stever@Edmunds said:

    Back to GW, here's yet another fun link. (Scientific American).

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  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450

    And then there's this.

    We all know the consensus can only be if it agrees with the manmade GW theories. Amazing how many relatively smart people are sucked into the beliefs of a few loud mouthed charlatans like Al Gore.

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited January 2014

    Curry hasn't published for two years now (other than her blog and stuff). Do you think she's been cut off by the scientific community? She had the falling out with Mueller/Berekely Earth around October, 2011. Before 2012, she was prolific in the journals for 28 straight years. Maybe she lost her grad students when she became department chair. :p

    Ah well, you've got me back on personalities instead of "facts".

    Did anyone else notice that the two stuck ships in Antarctica got their own selves unstuck back on the 8th and the Coast Guard stood down?

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited January 2014

    Ah well, you've got me back on personalities instead of "facts".

    I think the spin and rhetoric from no nothing individuals like Al Gore and myself far outweighs any absolute FACTS. There have been far too many known lies in the data gathering for me to take GW seriously. Even the warmers admit the last 15+ years have been cooler and stopped the upward trend. Yet they still want to claim man causes whatever happens. No denying that Climate Changes occur. I just don't think spending $trillions, we don't have, will make any difference. Except in the pockets of the rich and political hacks.

    **Did anyone else notice that the two stuck ships in Antarctica got their own selves unstuck back on the 8th and the Coast Guard stood down?
    **

    No I did not and it was not easy finding it with a simple google search. Here is the only mention I found.

    http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2014/01/08/22222323-trapped-research-ship-rescue-vessel-break-free-of-antarctic-ice?lite

  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    edited January 2014

    for starters, we can ignore the engines and just look at the color of the cars and their contribution to the albedo of of the planet.

    someone can do the math and see what the reduction percentage of total atmosphere absorbed heat from sun, using % of earth surface covered by cars in the calculation. and for the initial calculation, compare the case of all cars being black to all cars being white. also for initial calculation, assume there are no clouds. this will give a sort of 'upper bound' on how much car color alone affects the amount of incident solar-heat and other wavelengths being reflected back into space.

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