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Comments
My three fave are Mineral White, Estoril Blue and Black Sapphire. I like that BMW brought back the Oyster Interior. For 2013 BMW really screwed up on the sport and M sport interior colors...
The new Volvo V60
Funny you posted this; I was messing around with the Volvo site a few days ago building a V60. I like the idea, but imagine its going to be small in person when it comes to cargo space.
23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd
@flightnurse - glad you finally made it! I happened to be trawling some old BMW lease posts today and came across your previous posts, and thought, "wonder what happened to him?" And here you are! Welcome back. Your assigned profile pic is goofy.
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The article stated it is bigger then a Jetta Sportwagon, the BMW wagon is slight smaller then the previous V70. Only time well tell.
Thanks Kristie, the pic was assigned by Edmunds... It's good to be back.
@flightnurse which is funny because British reviews say the V60 has less cargo volume than the 3 wagon or the A4 Avant. Different measurement methods perhaps.
Better question is, will label-conscious shoppers buy Volvo at all when they start coming from over the other ocean?
23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd
Wasn't that said about VW being built in Mexico, most buyers aren't aware of this, of course you will have the die hard fans who will know this. Time will tell.
On another forum, this topic came up. Some people claim that BMW dealers have to discount South African built 3's much more than German built ones. Any truth to that from the experts here?
BMW makes cars in Africa and are discounted more here as a result? I wonder if most know how labor actually is perceived in Germany?
No So African built 3 series are sold in the States.
Our 2003 3-Series was assembled in South Africa. I don't recall it being worth any less.. ;-)
IIRC, most of the 325i models destined for the U.S. were assembled in SA, while the 330 models mostly came from Germany.. (then....no idea about now). I haven't heard anyone mention it, in years..
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Both my older Bimmers (2000-5er) 001-3er have s/ns beginning w a W (Germany).
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
BMW SA exports about 40K 3 series to North America and is increasing production for export according to some articles I've seen.
I'm not sure where my car was built & its too damn cold outside to go & check;).
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
My 2009 E90 328i is an SA car.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive
Is it really, interesting, mine was built in Germany.
My 2012 328 wagon was built in Munich. Since it was European Delivery, it would make no sense for them to build one in SA, move it to Munich, let me pick it up and then move it to the US again.
I really doubt the amount of discount has anything to do with country of assembly for majority of deals. I suppose once in a while there may a customer who will complain and may receive a "consolation" discount, but I don't think those are statistically significant events.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
My guess is a fair number of BMW buyers don't know which wheels drive the car and very few have a clue about where they are built.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Aside from pickup truck buyers in Michigan and Ohio, I don't think very many people care where their vehicles are built. I don't think they'd even know where to LOOK to find out.
So, would any of you buy a new Chinese-built BMW?
23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd
I would not buy any car made in China.. But I bet a lot of people will without even realizing it at some point.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Would you buy Chinese-built Nike shoes? North Face parka?
Would you buy Chinese-built iPad?
Would you buy Chinese-built Kitchen Aid refrigerator?
I don't know if any of those things are made in China right now (except iPad), but I bet they either used to before going to even cheaper place (like Vietnam or Bangladesh), or their close competitors are currently made in China.
BTW, I may be wrong, but I don't think BMW currently makes its cars in China - they make some specifically FOR Chinese market. They probably source some components (who doesn't?), I'm sure, but not so regarding cars themselves.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I would as long as BMW is in charge of building it, training the workers, setting up the work environment, and sourcing the critical parts.
@dino001 I understand that most things are made in China. My question is would YOU buy a BMW made in China?
I posted an article above in which the head of Volvo says that Chinese-made Volvos will be exported to the US market soon. I think this, rightly or wrongly, could be an issue for Volvo and euro-brand buyers. Since the subsequent posts spoke of where BMW's were made, I modified it a bit to get a sense of reaction.
But the fact remains that Chinese-made Euro-branded cars are coming soon to the US. My question remains for everyone. BMW seems a favorite brand here; if the cars available at your dealer were Chinese-made, would you buy one?
23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd
I'd wait a while and let a few other buyers serve as beta testers...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive
@MrShift@Edmunds and @roadburner
I agree with you. The cars won't be Chinese designed BMWs. All of the crucial parts will still be designed & manufactured elsewhere. BMW isnt going to allow cheap Chinese manufactured steel to be used in its chassis or cheap chinese aluminum to fabricate its engine blocks. The factories are becoming more and more automated. Maybe it will make the cars more affordable.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
My point was that if we accept other items made in China by upscale branded manufacturers, it is easy to imagine cars, too. The key is production control. If Sony, Nike, or others can do it, so could BMW, if they so desired. And yes, I would buy one, if I there was a good data supporting it was same quality.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Amen.
I would amend your statement to replace "buyers" with "drivers." Many/most lease.
I would buy a diesel-powered BMW with a manual transmission sold in North America, regardless of where it's put together. Oh, it should also have real tires and a dipstick.
Or, I could flap my arms and fly to the moon.
No. It would be only a short time before a substandard part procured locally would be too tempting to ignore because of a cheap price. How many babies have to die, dogs get poisoned, kids ingest lead paint from toys or drugs get tainted before we learn. I don't eat Ipads or depend on TVs to get me safely home so those aren't a problem. Cars I wouldn't trust and I don't forsee a time in my lifetime that China would change enough to change my mind.
Here is an article on the new M235i enjoy
Here is a Video from Evo Mag with a M135i hatch and a 911 for the COTY, very entertaining.
Thanks FN. I concur with the article. The 1 series had a "funky" look about it. I actually looked at a 135 'vert before getting my last E92. Fun car, just couldn't get past how it looked like some sort of "botched" high school art class design.
I kind of wish I hadn't been in such a hurry to get my departed S4. I really wanted to at least test the M235i. I think it looks loads better than the 1, at least in pictures.
Haha that video... "there's been a death.."
As I've complained elsewhere, why can't BMW at least offer a limited-slip as a factory installed option on the M235i? My 1995 318ti has one- as does my Mazdaspeed 3 and the latest GTI. I guess I should be happy that RFTs have been ditched in favor of Pilot Super Sports
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive
Why? I am a manual trasmission guy, my current and last three cars have had manual transmission, but diesel engine is probably LEAST fun and LEAST suitable with manual trasmission for a passenger car (it's a little different for towing vehicles and tractor trailers with 10-12 gear manuals used to crawl uphill or just maximize efficiency).
This holiday I drove again (just like last year) my dad's Audi A4 with 1.9 TDI and manual transmission (it has sports suspension, too) and it was not a fun car, not to me anyway. The reason? Simple - diesel powerband is so narrow and short that I had to constantly shift up and down even on straight roads (just slight speed variation made it uncomfortable, if the car was on wrong gear). Ramp merging was a bit less scary than last year (as I got used to it and learned a little), but nevertheless couldn't hold a candle to a nice gasoline engine of similar power (even lower torque), when you can keep your car on same gear up to 5K+ rpm and keep accelerating. Diesel nicely kicks the speed up, but then equally suddenly dies in the middle of the manouver making you shift at least comfortable moment and lose time/distance.
If there is one type of passenger car that I don't mind well spaced and timed multigear automatic (or CVT), it is exactly small diesel. I think people's wish to have MT diesel is simply misguided, based on what is not available and never tried. It almost feels like "because these evil people don't offer it, it must be good".
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I'd agree with that...a turbo diesel is more compatible with a good automatic in a passenger car.
Exactly, the 8 spd in the BMW is one of the best in the business, and it suited for the diesel perfectly. What I have noticed, most of the 328d's on lots in Phoenix, have the sport package as well as M sport package, this give the transmission the Sport + feature. quicker shifting, holds gears longer, quicker throttle, add paddle shifting option and it's one of the best combo's.
I guess I should have stated in my posting of the video that even though the M135 is a 135, it gives you an idea on what the M235i will be able to do.
@dino001
I agree with you. I recently had a 328xd loaner car while mine was in for service (they finally fixed the trunk latch). The 8 speed automatic is perfectly matched to the Diesel turbo 4.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Well, I guess you told me.
I've driven seven different diesels with manual transmissions (not counting my '71 KW with the RT910 Roadranger) in Europe between 2001 and 2013. I enjoyed each one and generally try to avoid complication in my vehicles. Manual transmissions rarely fail and cost significantly less to repair, plus which I can shift when and how I want, including skipping gears or changing my mind in the middle as traffic conditions change. That said, it's clear that BMW knows what it's doing, since there appears to be universal acceptance of what they're peddling.
Can't compare what happens in Europe with here, in Europe more cars are sold with manual transmissions than here in the states, have to sell what people want.
Well, I guess, our priorities are simply different. I'm sure it probably lies in one's definition of "fun" and what each of us considers a good experience. My point of reference for MT experience are good gasoline engines with long powerbands and decent torque (WRX, STI, 328), to which diesel simply cannot hold a candle in terms of driving satisfaction. I talked to many owners of diesels in Europe and "fun" is not even in their vocabulary. Their reasons of getting diesel is plain and simple - money.
I consider current 328d a first BMW's legitimate entry in terms of economizing fuel efficiency, Such consideration was not as important in the past, but I guess times change, more and more marginal customers buy those things, so lowering their cost of ownership is one way of expanding the market opportunity. I think the 8AT is just right for it. I don't think 6MT would be any better in terms of driving experience and it would not provide any fuel economy savings. It might provide potential for better durability, but I didn't hear of massive failures of those BMW's autos. I may be misinformed, of course.
The background of European popularity of diesel does not lie in its inherent "fun", or otherwise superior performance. It is a plain fuel economy advantage traded for clunky sound, higher noise, lower powerband. The diesel engines went long way from times when they were very slow and had unbearable vibrations. Today's turbos fixed that off-line acceleration problem - in fact the punch provided by diesel is better than gasoline - the only thing is it doesn't last. The maintenance seems to be more of an issue today, that's the price paid for better engine. The engines reportedly do not last as long as they used to, they are more sensitive to fuel quality, which can be a problem in certain areas and repair costs are massive. To be fair, that's true about all cars, not just diesels.
In the world of $8-10/galon fuel (today's prices in Euro zone), every drop counts, so getting your car going further has real financial consequences, even for more affluent people. Only richest of the rich don't have to factor that in, the rest needs to consider if the great gasoline V6/I6, so popular with many Americans (not to mention V8), is affordable. Memo: it is not. Thus, the second and real only choice becomes a decent diesel. Prior recent boom, diesel fuel was also considered a lower grade byproduct and it was taxed less, creating a double bang for a buck (higher mpg on lower priced fuel). That advantage is gone now and one can already see the trend not as strong as it used to be.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Regarding Diesels & Transmissions post (above):
I suppose there is some chance that the manual transmission "option" will soldier on, probably for several more years. However, the manual transmission is, sadly, on its death-bed. Sadly? Sure, sadly -- because manual transmission cars (or more accurately said "some" manual transmission equipped cars) generally speaking are more fun to drive; and, until recently manual transmission cars provided real, measurable benefits simply unavailable with even the best transmissions that shift(ed) themselves.
Today, however, the manual transmission crowd, of which I consider myself to be a member, really doesn't have any attribute (that can be measured) that makes it "better" than some automatics. And, the thing is, even those automatics which are inferior -- today -- to a stick-shift, will likely soon be replaced with incrementally better autos until virtually all the automatic transmissions on the market are equal to or better than manuals.
Then, as a natural progression, all automatics offered will render manuals measurably inferior -- leaving only "fun-to-drive" as their reasons for being. Of course, in the ELLPS and LPS world, at least, manuals will simply no longer be offered as the upcoming crop of drivers is both unfamiliar with manuals (read: unable to drive them) and really confused as to why anyone would even want to shift a car.
We are progressively moving toward the autonomous automobile -- at least if you believe the story on CBS's Sunday Morning program where the new autonomous technologies were put on display courtesy of Mercedes (and Volvo and, and, and).
Manual transmissions, like light beers, are dead and they just don't know it yet.
I used to jump in a cab in Munich (often a light yellow Mercedes) and most of the time it was a manual transmission diesel version of the MB E Class. These days -- well since 2005 -- most of the cabs are as noted but with automatic transmissions. My assumption is, this can be seen as a bellwether -- either a predictor or cause-agent of things that will "soon" be adopted universally.
My 1995 Audi S6 was ONLY available with a manual transmission; I can't even imagine a 2014 S6 so equipped -- and, frankly, despite my "fun-to-drive" comments, I can't even imagine I would want a 2014 S6 with a manual trans.
How many of the ELLPS and LPS cars on the market are even offered with an "optional" manual transmission? Or perhaps the more pertinent question is what is the % of manual transmission versions of these ELLPS and LPS cars that are sold (at least in the US, anyway)? I would be pleasantly shocked to hear almost any number greater than 2%. The economics of offering an auto and a manual version are, likewise, already in play -- if a German manufacturer has to certify both a manual and an auto version of a model to be able to sell them in the US (and elsewhere, I'd imagine), my guess is they will simply decide there is no economic justification for certifying a model that represents but a tiny portion of sales, no matter what we say here, or no matter what the editors and writers of Car & Driver, et al, [non-permissible content removed] about.
I'm so happy with my S4's 7-Speed S-Tronic ("automatic manual"), I really don't even miss the stick shift. I did, however, test drive the 2014 S4 with a manual, and I must say it sure was "fun-to-drive". I'm over it now, however. To the S-Tronic I say: "You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din!”
Drive it like you live.
I agree. I already made peace with my next car being most likely AT. I had a good run - three manuals in the row, ordered and driving probably last 328 wagon with MT they produced for US market (if not last, it is likely to be one of ten last). It should have some number etched into it. It will take a real enthusiast to take it off my hands at a good price when its time comes. More likely I will have to accept a lowball offer from a dealer.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Dino....like you and Mike, I've also made my peace over my past obsession with manual transmissions. I can't say as I could better the performance of these new(er) autmatic transmissions.
Probably the only exception would be a manual trans in a muscle car or a Miata.
That said, that market is so small in this country, and the demand is so weak, it is must a matter of time before the manual transmission goes the way of crank windows and non-airconditioned cars.
It appears that BMW will be offering manual transmissions in the 2,3 and 4 series all M cars. There is also rumors that there will be a 2 series sedan too. So for those of you who must have a manual, BMW listened...
I presume the sedan will be more of a Gran Coupe....
Wondering what the uptake will be on these new manual trans versions of the 2,3 and 4 series.
Indeed BMW may have listened, but I have to believe that the number of folks who will actually go ahead and buy one of these versions will be tiny, tiny, tiny.
I can't understand why a company would do this based on what I have to assume is a huge check that has to be written to get a car certified for sale in the US.
But, I applaud the effort!
Still lovin' the S-Tronic, I say: Drive it like YOU live.
Ok I really hate this new format sometime it quotes correctly and sometimes it does not..
From the postings on Bimmerfest, both will be offered, but only time will tell.