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All About Packards
Mr. Shiftright-check out this month's issue of
FORBES magazine. There is a guy who is planning to
revive the PACKARD name-he bought the rights for
$50,000., and plans to produce an all-aluminum,
luxury sedan next year. He seems to be
well-capitalized, but what do you think of his
chances? The name is rather old-I can't believe
that anybody under 45 has much familiarity with it.
FORBES magazine. There is a guy who is planning to
revive the PACKARD name-he bought the rights for
$50,000., and plans to produce an all-aluminum,
luxury sedan next year. He seems to be
well-capitalized, but what do you think of his
chances? The name is rather old-I can't believe
that anybody under 45 has much familiarity with it.
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Oldest existing domestic nameplate is, of course Olds-mobile, and may be the oldest existing in the entire world (don't say Benz, they were merged with Mercedes in 1926). Fiat and Peugeot are 1899, Renault is 1898, but Olds is 1896.
I'm still thinking...
Anybody under 45 remembering Packard...highly unlikely. I'm 46, so I just made the cut. My grandpa had a '49, a big ugly ol' bathtub of a car. Personally, I think the '57 Hawk looks kinda cool...
body had undergone a few mods, all of which, to me, seemed to enhance the styling of the car. Now I know most of the true classic "Packardophiles" out there might detest such a car, but to me, it seemed like kind of a tribute that someone would spend that much money to make an old Packard into a street rod. Actually, I kinda liked it. A change from the standard 30's-40's something Chevy-Ford street rods.
I remember an uncle of mine, [who drove Nashes exclusively] once bought a '47 Packard 2dr, like this rod I saw, to pull his travel trailer. This was in 1957. I thought it was interesting at the time that he'd bought a 10 year old Packard to pull his travel trailer.
My bathtub 49 may not be a looker to a lot of you older folks but man does that art deco dash, bulbous body lines, and endless flat head eight amaze the younger generation. When these twenty somethings see that huge 6 volt battery slowly chugh, chugh, chugh..........whirrr to start that smooth running flat head eight they can't believe their eyes.
I'm certainly not the standard Packard owner but let me tell you I can't wait to get this car finished and hook it up to my Aerostream trailer for a weekends down at San Onofre State Beach Park with long Boards, roof racks, and all. There aint a surf'n rig like this on the entire coast of Califonia!
A couple of years ago at a Packard Club event I saw an orginal low mileage 57 Packard Country Sedan Station Wagon with factory blower V-8. The owner said it was a rocket but man did it look like it'd been slapped together with whatever they could find in the parts bin that day.
I'd probably have bought that car if I saw it today because it was just so frickn unique and ugly to boot. Damn the rear of that car was weird! I've never seen another one of those cars since.
I am 37 years old, not your typical Packard fan,
but i have always liked the cars.
I am interested in the the cars built from about 1934-1939.
Does anybody have any suggestions on what i should buy as a novice?
Should i get a $5000-6000 beater or move up to something in the $15,000 plus range.
I am not interested in a convertible. Just the sedans.
However, I also noticed that the ONLY 4-door postwar Packards bringing serious money are really restored to a magnificent condition. This seems to be the New Rule of the collector car hobby, now that buyers are so much more knowledgable and fussy then they were in the 1980s. They'll pay, but they want only the best and the rest be damned.
A sedan like, say, a supercharged Stutz from the 20s, you'd restore that no matter how bad it was, because you can hang a $300,000+ pricetag on it. But when confronted with a maximum value for a 4-door postwar Packard of perhaps $30-35K in Pebble Beach show condition, and a cost of $75,000 to get there, what is the motivation? This is even more true for "lesser" postwar 4-doors, such as the lower-priced cars from the Big Three or Studebaker or Nash.
Yes, the postwar glory is definitely going to 50s coupes and converts and 60s muscle cars. This is where all the action is right now.
I originally was interested in buying a Packard 120, but am now leaning towards something mid to late '20s. I think they are a little more unique looking. I believe it was Mr. Shiftright who said that the later '30s cars were starting to look too GM like.
Got the "Fall of the Packard Motor Car Company" for Christmas and it is good but depressing.
I am hoping there will be renewed interest in cars of this era by collectors. I am 38 years old and would really like to participate in the Packard Clubs.
Too bad they are saddled with 6 volt charging systems, it really makes it difficult to use these cars on a regular basis.
Their showroom section has a lot of great photos.Its amazing to think how many different models there were available. Most of the people who are involved in the hobby seem to be getting up in age, it needs some new blood if it is going to thrive.
I think the reason the more "common" Packards are being parted out is that in the current market they are simply not worth restoring, and if they are the 4-door cars from say the 1920s and late 40s, early 50s especially, they probably won't ever be worth restoring. Even when we've seen 4-door cars bringing $30,000 as magnificent restorations, that is a loss for the restorer.
Basically, I think that unless a 4-door car is coachbuilt (custom body), it's a struggle to attain any kind of substantial value. The body style is often not very attractive, and the numbers produced too high (4-doors are always made in much larger proportion to their coupe and convertible brethren).
The Packard story is depressing. It only goes to prove, once again, that just because very well dressed men sit around large boardroom tables and talk in serious and somber tones, it doesn't mean they know what they are doing.
It just seems a shame to see that old fabric lost.
Here in chas. sc we have very strict guidelines as to what we can do to our historic houses. This perserves the building fabric, but makes it very expensive to do a restoration.
We still have old houses and barns being torn down and their wood used to perserve and build new houses, so i guess the parting out of an auto is no different than reclaiming heart pine from and old building.
One 4 door i do like a lot is the club sedan. It has a beefier look and has more presence than the other 4 doors.
Should i spend $25,000 for it? Should i go get a $15,000 nice driver or a $5-6000 near basket case that runs. I have always heard (even with '60s musclecars) that you should buy the vehicle in better condition. What do you think? What about the '20s cars with either the solid or artillery wheels, will these go up a couple thousand a year or stagnate.
Is it because these cars are not especially fun to drive that they are not appreciating? or is it just the baby boomer equation that is driving the '60s cars?
I have lots of questions as you can see.
I may just buy the one that i like and not be to concerned with future value...maybe.
The pros to buying what you like, and not going after potential price appreciation, are that you're not going to have much competition. In fact, you might be the only buyer for certain cars in a slow market. That certainly keeps your initial investment low. You get the driving experience, you get to sit in your garage with a beer and admire it, and you get to tell your friends you have one, all of this for relatively little money.
The downside is that a car like that is an illiquid asset. If you need to convert it into cash quickly to pay bills or get another car, you'll either take a beating or maybe not even be able to find a buyer. And any major work done to the car won't appreciably increase its value--you get no return on your investment.
Is that about right?
Lastly, my feeling is that these cars should be restored. I would think that eventually they will come up to a value that will makie it worthwhile.
Depending on condition and popularity of course.
cars for less than they paid for them all the time. Story of my life and probably most other people's too.
Happy New Year!!
Compare that to a 50s,60s or 70s car, which you can drive on modern highways (usually) or even race on weekends, depending on the vehicle.
Last of all, a big Packard 4-door from the 20s, especially the lower level models, are not terribly attractive...they pretty much look like any other plain jane (plain john?) 20s car. You might as well buy a Model A, and save an enormous sum on restoration costs. Packards are not a cheap car to restore by any means, and parts are tough to find.
There has been a definite trend in the collector car hobby to buy cars one can use and enjoy.
I also agree that one cannot compare old cars and real estate....if, say, there were a major depression, real estate might stagnate or drop some, but collector car values go right into the toilet, except for very, very rare and exclusive models....and even those often take a terrible beating (e.g., the $7 million dollar Ferrari from 1989 now selling for 1.5 million...you know somebody took a beating on that one).
Shiftright, I had to chuckle to myself a little out loud as I read your responses to b4z because you were so right on the money but obviously overcome by years of wisdom. Passion, for the most part, is what I think starts us all down the road of auto restoration but ultimatly over time that passion fades to the background with wisdom. Everything you said throughout this forum seems to be mostly logical and the truth, like the Oracle at Delphi (thats not the Ford audi divission guys) but, like in the movies, just a wise deep voice coming out of no where that we all know is telling us the truth because we sought so long and hard to find you but through our own human frailty always seem to disregard.
b4z, take heart, enjoy, and there are definitly some stories to be told about the Packard restoration field. If Shiftright thinks you are whacked, and through my own learned wisdom, I'd have to agree, then you should meet a guy named Dutch, whose passion is Packard Funneral cars. He's an undertaker so at least he has an excuse.
Packards are very, very interesting and you certainly meet some of the most interesting people when you get involved in these cars. There always seems to be such tremendous support and help within the clubs for anybody under 45 trying to get involved with Packards because as Shirftright was trying to explain, they all know, that there is going to be almost no market for this great old brand after their generation dies. Talk about picking up some great deals on some great cars.
I likePackard people, excentric to say the least, but it's a great network, and enjoyable folks to boot. I've gotten marginally involved with Lincolns but they are not near as personable and heck you can still buy one new anyway. So I drive a Lincoln, but I love my Packard and I'm still considering the Alpha but leaning toward one of the new Coopers. (Inside joke for Shirftright)
Best Wishes to all Packard loving freaks
frederick
Any Packard that i purchase will stay as original.
Except for maybe a 12 volt system (sacrilege).
But i actually want to drive it on a fairly regular basis and i need the reliability and cranking power of a modern 12 volt system.
These cars are truly beautiful and have a presence
and grace on the road that is missing in today's cars, whatever their origin or nameplate.
There will be no hot rodded packards in my future.
A 1957 Chevy with '90s running gear is fine, because they originally came with a small block chevy. A Packard with a small block chevy doesn't do a thing for me. I have my camaro for cruising around in.
Still haven't bought one yet, recently purchased some real estate. Hopefully I will be in a 120 in 12 months or so.
The problem is the "classic" issue....the people interested in these cars are getting very old, and the interest does not pass on to new generations (with some exceptions).
But I have mentioned the name "Packard" now and then in social circles and get a blank stare from just about everyone under 50.
There will always be a market for the $5,000 Packard sedan--just don't put too much money in it.
Hey, I just found a 1935 LaSalle coupe--been stored for 25 years....perfect example of what I'm talking about...the guy wants $15K for it, and really, with restoration costs what they are, it's worth about $4,000. So it will sit there and rot until it is worth nothing I fear.
They do have a limited appeal, but the beauty of these cars in undeniable.
At the age of 38 i may be bucking the trend, but i am convinced that i would get a great deal of pleasure in owning one.
And it will be driven on a regular basis.