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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681

    @benjaminh said:
    from Auto News

    Sonata drags down Hyundai

    Brand ranks near the bottom on 2014 J.D. Power dependability study

    Ryan Beene

    Automotive News
    February 24, 2014

    LOS ANGELES -- Hyundai notched big gains in its sales, market share and image when its swoopy 2011 Sonata hit the market. But barely three years later, the mid-sized car has left Hyundai with a black eye.

    Problems reported by owners of the 2011 Sonata were the main reason that the Hyundai brand ranked fifth from the bottom in the latest dependability rankings from J.D. Power and Associates....

    more at the link:

    http://www.autonews.com/article/20140224/RETAIL/302249966/sonata-drags-down-hyundai

    So they're ranked 27th now...but if you look at the site you'll see that their problems per 100 vehicles is around the same as it was 5 years ago when they were ranked 14th.

    It's just that everybody else has raised their reliability (or decreased their problems per 100 vehicles).

    I've used this argument previously when defending VW's ranking...for me it's a wash when it's under 200 problems per 100 vehicles.

    Most cars have over 100 problems per 100 vehicles. So odds are you're going to have to go to the dealer to get an item fixed; you'll have the inconvenience of taking your car to the dealer no matter what you buy. So if you're under 200 problems per 100 vehicles...then you just tell the dealer, "fix this AND that" instead of saying "fix ONLY this".

    But as a general statement...less defects is better (especially after warranty period).

  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181

    I really don't know if JD Powers takes into consideration what kind or how serious a "problem" might be but it would make a difference to me. Having a very minor problem taken care of during the first oil change at the dealer is a lot different than having to leave your car for three days because of a serious safety recall or a "do not drive" type of thing.

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311

    I think the Sonata probably has pretty good reliability. As ivan said, it's just that some of the other brands have improved even faster.

    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,256

    I'm pretty sure the Sonata was an all new design, at the very least a huge jump forward for Hyundai, so first year problems are to be expected.

    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited February 2014

    Replying to m6user: Right. The one problem I had was the center console latch was partially broken. $2 part warranty repair.

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949

    I've had 0 problems on my wife's 2013 Sonata in 15 months. Maybe Hyundai fixed the "bugs" by then.

  • Many people reached by the JD power surveys will put things down that may aggravate them, but are not actually broken. Like "my phone will not connect to cars Bluetooth sometimes". Well, mine does that sometimes too, and is a known issue, but is generally a setting problem somewhere in the setup. That's a lot different than say a CEL code issue.

  • lovmycarlovmycar Member Posts: 15

    I can only comment with first hand news on Hyundai/Kia since 2009 when I bought a new 2009 Sonata SE with a v-6, great car now my EX has it. I opted for a Optima to replace it and have now replaced that one with a 2014 Optima SX-T. I have nothing but good to say about all three of them. This one I have now is absolutely awesome, smooth, quiet and handles like a dream.
    Power wise it is unreal, this thing will get you in trouble, lol "use the cruise"!!

  • brian125brian125 Member Posts: 5,244
    edited February 2014

    lovmycar,

    Kia, Hyundai have come along way. They give you alot of car for your money with a 5 yr peice of mind bumper to bumper and 10 yr powertrain. Its always a great thing to be able to sell your car within 5 years and the new owner still has piece of mind on the warranty.

    My 2013 Genesis R-spec sedan is 430hp fast, super quite inside no road noise, , awesome sound system, and sharp looking . Spent 43k on a car that other competitors get 60 to 70 grand.

    But again its only a Hyundai..... What would i know about nice cars.?............lol

    Enjoy your new ride its a sharp looking car............... just dont try and race me.

    23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE

  • scotty49scotty49 Member Posts: 3

    Looking for a source of info (reliability, power, quietness) for 2014 Buick Verano, Chevy Malibu and Ford Fusion. Looking for a car that is quiet, and power for mountain driving. I drove a Malibu LTZ, and found it a little noisy and a little weak on power at 7500-8500 feet pass climbing, but acceptable. Trying to get ideas of other cars to compare with. I consider all three cars very nice inside and outside, but any other ideas on a $25,000 car to look at would be appreciated.

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,256

    @scotty49 said:
    . Looking for a car that is quiet, and power for mountain driving.

    A turbo car will lose less power at high altitudes.

    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062

    Fusion 2.0L EB is quiet with plenty of power and the turbo should help at altitude. Reliability on the 2014s is much better than the 2013s.

  • brian125brian125 Member Posts: 5,244

    scotty49,

    The only other cars to maybe consider in that category are lower end models

    Accord , Camry, legacy, Maxima........ OR Sonata, Optima

    23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited February 2014

    Verano is technically a "compact luxury sedan", and is going to be a bit smaller in the back, as it shares its platform with the Chevy Cruze. Powertrain wise, both the Verano and the Malibu are comparable with the mid-size segment. The Malibu also has a smaller back seat than the competition, as it's wheelbase is shorter than the pack. This was done in order to make room for the new Impala., which is classified as "large sedan".
    Complicated. I would compare the Accord Touring and Optima SX-T myself.
    I do have a question. I see under your profile that you have 4 late model cars. Obviously you can afford what you want. Have you ever driven and Audi A6 3.0T ? Awesome, and starts at $42k.

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132

    @cski said:
    The Malibu also has a smaller back seat than the competition, as it's wheelbase is shorter than the pack.

    The backseat myth seems to have floated around because the previous generator Malibu has a very generous back seat area for a midsize car. But the 2013/2014 has a seat better than a couple of cars cited as equivalents in the market.

    Malibu Legroom 36.8 in
    Optima legroom 34.6 in
    Sonata legroom 34.7 in

    If I recall the Malibu is rated 36 mpg while I noticed the Sonata/Opt are rated 35 mpg with the standard engines.

    I didn't compare with Honda and Camry. I assume they have slightly more legroom.

    @scotty49 said:

    I drove a Malibu LTZ, and found it a little noisy and a little weak on power at 7500-8500 feet pass climbing, but acceptable.

    Which engine did it have? 2.5 or the 2.0 turbo. The Verano also is available with the 2.0 turbo. The Sonato and Optima both have turbo available.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • brian125brian125 Member Posts: 5,244
    edited February 2014

    Here is my Accord exl v-6 brerakdown

    ft/bk legroom.........................42.5/ 38.5
    mpg v6................................21/ 34 hp=.... 278@6200

    EXL 4cyl........................... F/B leg= same...
    mpg 4cyl..........................27/ 36 hp=.... 185@6400

    Buying at 25k gets you lower end versions of prior above mentioned cars.

    If you could spend 27k excluding taxes Buying a Honda Accord exl V6 gets you the best midsize car in its class IMHO. and most car reviews agreeing..The Ford Fusion might be egual in price/ size, and mpg. Reliability, Build , and Resale may be a different story thou.

    Otherwise Sonata and Optima could be the next best choices.

    23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE

  • @akirby said:
    Fusion 2.0L EB is quiet with plenty of power and the turbo should help at altitude. Reliability on the 2014s is much better than the 2013s.

    I have to admit that I am smitten by the 2013-14 MK-Z. I love the back end (I like taillights that go all the way across in general). I didn't realize that you can pick up a base 2.0T for $35,000.

    That is not far off the upper echelon price of our fine group of sedans. With about $6000 of equity, I could actually afford it.

    I found a pic of the interior I like. I really wish it had SOME buttons (even hidden ones), but the designers went hi-tech and sleek. It works for me in the looks department.

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311

    cski: I actually like the MKZ too. And it's a lot of car for the money. But I think it also has the same flaw that the Optima has: poor rear visibility. There's a big thing among some car stylists these days for thick rear pillars and a high belt-line, which gives kind of a "cocoon" feeling of being enclosed that I'm not fond of. People in other cars can't see in very well, but at the same time the driver and passengers in the MLZ can't see out that well either.

    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181

    I just read that the 2015 Focus is substantially going back to buttons because Ford is just getting crucified for that touch screen, touch dash capacitance sliding whatever stuff that people hate. They went back to buttons recently on the F-150 too. I would bet money that this will make it's way to the Fusion and the MKZ very shortly.

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311

    m6user: how do you like your Mazda6? What kind of mpg are you getting? Manual or auto. Really like the looks of that car. To me it's the best looking midsize car right now. And Mazda is really on a roll with their Skyactiv engineering.

    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062

    The climate control buttons and dials are going back to the center stack and no more capacitive touch controls. That should be the new design as vehicles get new/redesigned interiors.

  • lovmycarlovmycar Member Posts: 15

    brian125,
    I gave up racing many years ago but if I still did there is one car I would own, the Cadillac
    CTS-V. We are in a whole different world in this thread with 2.0 so I won't say anymore about racing.

  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181

    Ours is old with 109,000. It's a 2007 with the auto I4. We average about 28 mpg with it with about 33 on the highway. It's been a super car and is the first Mazda product we've had but am definitely looking at replacing it this year and the new Mazda6 is on the list. My wife drives it back and forth to work(she absconded with it about 6 months after I bought it) and the only thing she wants different in her next car is for it to be quieter. I'm pretty sure the newer ones are quieter just like the new Accords are much quieter than the older ones. The Accord Hybrid is also on our list. I drive a newer Acura and have had just super experience with that too.

    The Mazda has had no repairs, just maint. unless you want to count a couple of light bulbs as repairs. I don't think I've ever had a car that went this many years and this many miles with no repairs(knock on wood) and I've had a bunch of vehicles. The only other car she has mentioned is a BMW but we tend to keep cars a long time and I don't want to pay for expensive out of warranty repairs that are pretty much standard with the German cars.

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,439

    I got the auto issue of C-R today so read it through. The Accord was top rated in this class, but the mazda was only about 2 points behind. And for mileage, the Accord got an impressive 30 overall in their tests, but the 6 beat that out getting 32 (and no CVT!)

    The 6 would be high on my list if I was to buy new, assuming I wanted to go up a size class from the 3. Almost as good mileage, but quite a bit roomier, and probably cheaper real-world if you want the 2.5l engine.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    edited March 2014

    Most comparisons of midsize cars have put either the Mazda first or the Accord first. If you're considering between those two it's a tough choice! Here are a few points....

    Style: almost everyone would agree that the Mazda is more stylish, although the Accord, esp. the Sport model, is a classy looking ride.

    MPG: There's a slight edge for the Mazda6 here, although actually the auto versions are both rated by the epa at 30 mpg combined.

    Price: virtual tie. The Mazda6 auto has an msrp starting at $22,695, while the Accord auto starts at $22,755.

    Safety: Slight edge for the Accord, as it's the only midsize car to get a Good rating on the small-offset crash test by the IIHS.

    Acceleration: Slight edge for the Mazda in some tests.

    Handling: Slight edge for the Mazda in most tests.

    Interior room: Slight edge for the Accord, as it has a roomier back seat area. Passenger volume is 103.2 for the Accord compared to 99.7 for the 6.

    Visibility: Slight edge for the Accord.

    Luggage space: 15.8 cu ft. for the Accord vs. 14.8 for the Mazda6

    Reliability and durability: Probably a tie

    Service: There are a lot more Honda dealers than Mazda dealers in the US, and so service is probably easier with the Honda.

    Both cars are great choices imho.

    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311

    One last point, which probably isn't a consideration for many people, is that the Accord is made in Ohio while the Mazda6 is made in Japan. I'm old-fashioned, but it gives me a good feeling to know that the money I spend on a car is keeping jobs going and money circulating in the US.

    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

    Don't forget to thank the government for that benjamin...the 'build it here" phenomenon was in response to threats of higher tariffs on imports, back when Japan was eating American manufacturers alive, in the 1980s.

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,439

    one wild card though on durability. It remains to be seen if the Honda CVT is going to be bulletproof or a time bomb.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949

    On reliability... CR says the only Accord model with at least average predicted reliability as a new car is the 4 cylinder sedan. The others are either worse than average or much worse than average... quite a departure for Honda. The most reliable mid-sized cars, per CR, are the Camry Hybrid and the 4-cylinder Legacy, followed by the 4-cylinder Camry and Mazda6.

    As far as overall score, the Camry Hybrid and XLE V6 are actually CR's top choices, followed by the Accord LX 4-cylinder and EX-L V6 (although that model is not recommended due to reliability issues). Then one point behind the Accord are the Sonata 2.0T (also not recommended due to reliability issues) and the Sonata GLS, tied with the Malibu 2LTZ 2.0T. Then the Camry LE, and finally the Mazda6 Sport, Fusion SE Hybrid (not recommended due to subpar reliability), and then all the rest.

  • brian125brian125 Member Posts: 5,244
    edited March 2014

    I posted earlier in the mazda forum in jan on this model here is my updated version of the 2014 mazda a6.

    brian125 New york / S.C. myrtle beachPosts: 1,766
    3:21PM edited 3:28PM

    Just want to follow up on my last comments in Jan.. I drove the the 2014 mazda touring model a few days ago and i agree Mazda has done a very nice job with this vehicle. My son who drives a infinity G37's liked this model, but disliked engine a little underpowered, center stack was confusing, and hard ride.

    What i liked and i agree with my son was the 11 speaker bose system in the touring model. 19' tires. I really liked the smaller wheel, upscale interior and mazda new smart city brake system. what this does is when vehicle is going 20mph or less if a frontal collision is detected it will apply the brakes. The Mazda Handled better than my EXL V-6 Accord. Mazda's radio blew away the hondas radio system. But i still feel My accord has less road noise , Rides better on harsh roads, and is alot faster. Accord has a little more interior room. Mazda has a bad track record on interior noise. This model was a upgrade

    My only problem and this is why i would not buy this Mazda... The Ride / suspension We felt every bump in this car. On nice level roads here in the nyc area which there are not many of lol.., the mazda rode nice otherwise i cant be in a everyday vehicle like this. This kind of ride is not for me anymore.

    Maybe the hard ride was worse due to the 19' tires on the touring model dont know. This mazda did handle very well. i think the younger kids will love this vehicle..... just not for me.

    Id love to hear from someone who drove the lower end model with the 16' / 17' tires

    Flag Quote · Like Awesome LOL

    23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited March 2014

    @stickguy said:
    I got the auto issue of C-R today so read it through. The Accord was top rated in this class, but the mazda was only about 2 points behind. And for mileage, the Accord got an impressive 30 overall in their tests, but the 6 beat that out getting 32 (and no CVT!)

    It just makes no sense to me that the top-of-the-line Accord Touring V6 has wheels that look just like hubcaps. HONDA. Put the sport wheels on the touring!! Yesterday! I saw one today. I bet they would move a few more units with the Sport wheels, which are very, very sharp.

  • brian125brian125 Member Posts: 5,244
    edited March 2014

    cski said,

    It just makes no sense to me that the top-of-the-line Accord Touring V6 has wheels that look just like hubcaps. HONDA. Put the sport wheels on the touring!! Yesterday! I saw one today. I bet they would move a few more units with the Sport wheels, which are very, very sharp.

    Honda has also done a very bad job on there CRV lx model. The rims on that vehicle are a disgrace. Shame on you honda to put a ugly ancient looking rim on a vehicle that cost 23k for starters.

    23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    edited March 2014

    On one leg of a trip we took yesterday we hit 40 mpg in our 2013 Accord CVT. It was about a 70 mile stretch of Interstate between Cincinnati and Columbus. The car had three passengers + luggage, and we were going c. 62-72 mph on that leg. The AC was shut off, but we were running the heater and the stereo. I think in our 2008 Accord 4 cylinder we would have gotten about 31 mpg for this trip, and so that's a pretty good improvement in one generation of car. It makes me wonder what the next generation of Accord, due in 2018, will be able to do on a highway trip...? (Click on the image to see a more readable version of the trip computer.) This is a new record for us on mpg for a normal highway trip. I should say though that that stretch of highway is pretty flat, and conditions were dry and close to ideal. On the way back we were battling through the winter storm that's just hit (Titan?) and the mpg was significantly lower: c. 33-36.

    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • brian125brian125 Member Posts: 5,244

    ben

    I also had a 2008 Accord. Never got 31 mpg. When I traveled from NY to my house in Myrtle beach I was getting between 25 to maybe 28 mpg. This was cruising at 75 and at times close to 85 when conditions permited. I would think if i set the cruise at 65 i could get 30 mpg.

    My dad was in the Oil business he retired in 1985. I always remember him telling me that American car companies have the technologies to make cars get better gas mileage but wont til the goverment forces them to produce and make them more efficient. I guess we will never know how much money was given under the tables from the oil bigs to car manufactorers, Lobbyists and gov't to keep things status quo all those years. These vehicles that are out today my dad spoke of years ago.

    23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE

  • @brian125 said:
    cski said,

    It just makes no sense to me that the top-of-the-line Accord Touring V6 has wheels that look just like hubcaps. HONDA. Put the sport wheels on the touring!! Yesterday! I saw one today. I bet they would move a few more units with the Sport wheels, which are very, very sharp.

    Honda has also done a very bad job on there CRV lx model. The rims on that vehicle are a disgrace. Shame on you honda to put a ugly ancient looking rim on a vehicle that cost 23k for starters.

    I seem to remember that Honda was pretty stingy about offering aluminum alloys across the board in the past. Even the great Handling Acura Integra 2 door with the sunroof, wing, and top end everything had steel wheels and hubcaps. You had to step into an Si type model to get them. Well, even the LX now has alloys....so thats progress.

  • brian125brian125 Member Posts: 5,244
    edited March 2014

    I guess hondas view on this is were giving you Quality, Build, and good resale on our vehicles.

    Now you want us to give you vehicles that look nice and rims to .... God forbid.

    LOL

    23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,256

    @brian125 said:
    ben

    American car companies have the technologies to make cars get better gas mileage but wont til the government forces them to produce.

    How about other countries?
    Here, it's a balance between the government mandates, what the customers want and what the manufacturer can profitably produce.
    People only car about fuel when it costs them a lot of money.

    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

    fuel is America's largest export product! We can't be toooo short of it, can we?

  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062

    If the technology existed and was affordable, it would be on the market already. No mfr would hold back something that would bring them huge sales volumes.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited March 2014

    @explorerx4 said: How about other countries? Here, it's a balance between the government mandates, what the customers want and what the manufacturer can profitably produce. People only car about fuel when it costs them a lot of money.

    I for one would like to see more diesel models available in the US, but our stringent EPA regulations requiring expensive urea injection systems to keep the emissions clean, among other things, make offering them less attractive to manufacturers. They are slowly becoming more common and prices are slowly coming down. I would buy a BMW 335d if conditions were right. Also, I was really pining for the new Mazda 6 with it's 2.2 liter twin scroll diesel making upwards of 300 lb-Ft and 180 hp. I am still waiting for it to hit showrooms.
    Here is a good explanation of why we do not get the same great compact diesels that Europe does (other than the fact that gas costs $8.00 a gallon in western EU).

    http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1051249_five-reasons-small-diesels-wont-dominate-the-u-s-car-market

  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    edited March 2014

    @MrShift@Edmunds said:
    fuel is America's largest export product! We can't be toooo short of it, can we?

    Actually we are very short - we use over twice what we produce. Our oil production peaked in the 70's.

    I think some like to confuse the facts by comparing refined oil - which we do export. But overall we use much much more "oil" than we produce.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

    Don't discount that whopping difference in fuel prices---Americans have been known to 'turn on a dime" when fuel prices change radically. Think about the "old days" when diesel cars held about 6% of the US market---diesel fuel was cheaper than regular.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited March 2014

    "Let it snow let it snow let it snow". We are getting hit again. This time with a half inch of ice underneath 6" of snow as a bonus.
    There have been over 300 accidents in Fairfax and Prince William County alone since midnight last night.

  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062

    And everyone was laughing at Atlanta........

    I don't care where you live - you can't drive on solid ice with regular tires.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

    you can't drive on ice with ANY tires really. I mean, you can TRY, or use sheet metal screws I suppose, but really, ice and cars don't mix. You need some....substance...to GRIP....

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    edited March 2014

    Given that diesel costs more per gallon, sometimes there's not much of a case for diesel in terms of saving money.

    For example, a new Mazda6, Honda Accord, and Nissan Altima all have lower annual gas costs according to the EPA than a VW Passat diesel. The Passat diesel gets c. 3-5 more mpg, but the higher cost of diesel completely wipes out any savings. And since a Passat diesel costs c. $2000-$3000 more than a comparably equipped Altima, Accord, or Mazda6, you pay a premium for savings that don't really exist.

    If you're in love with diesel for other reasons, like torque, or because you never want to change spark plugs, or you want to help VW gain market share, then good on ya. But if you're buying a diesel to save money, then right now it's a tough case to make since the new generations of gas cars get such good mpg.

    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062

    Exactly. Although snow tires do seem to help, even on ice.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlYEMH10Z4s

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311

    midsize sales for Feb....

    Altima: 30,849

    Camry: 28,998

    Fusion: 23,898

    Accord: 23,712

    Malibu: 17,448

    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 19,031

    It surprises me the Altima is the best seller. It just isn't on my radar at all. Truly an anonymous car, and I always felt the CVT hurt it. Maybe the segment just doesn't care.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    edited March 2014

    As The Chairman says on The Iron Chef: "Let the battle begin!" Nissan, Toyota, and Ford are all offering 0% financing plus cash on the hood. They're almost giving them away! Honda's sticking with their very nice but not quite as aggressive 0.9%. And this month Nissan takes the crown. The Camry may indeed be vulnerable, but Toyota executives have said they'll pay any price to keep their car in first place in the sales race. We'll see about that....

    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
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