Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

oldfarmer50 · March 2014

@MrShift@Edmunds said:
If you get a judgment on someone, they can be harassed--you can garnishee their wages, you can seize their bank account and if they have a very fat IRA, you can go after that, too. And of course, if they own property, yum, yum. The perp's only defense is to file Chapter 7, and even then you may be able to vacuum his bank account, but as soon as he files a 7 you can no longer dun him.

Unless they like hiding under a rock, some pressure may work.

Some people live under rocks and like it there. From personal experience I can tell you that a real dead beat is hard to collect a judgement from.

True, you can attach all sorts of assets IF you can identify them. Unless you have bank account numbers or know where they work it's hard to get at their money. Some even work off the books so you can't even prove income. If the car is a lease you can't seize it.

Also, your collection agent ( usual the sheriff) my be just too busy (or too lazy) to enforce any collection.

Civil cases are seldom like Perry Mason.

au1994 · March 2014

@rayainsw said:
au1994 -

Everyone clearly needs to decide for him \ her self if any car is worth the asking price.

The 228i starts at $33,025 with Destination. One with an MSRP of $43.6 would have to be ‘loaded’ with nearly every option offered.

And the M235i starts at $44,025 with Dest. The way I would order one, today [ adding metallic paint, cold pkg & Premium pkg ] would sticker for $47,425.

In the context of what else is currently available, this is what I would buy – if buying \ ordering today. Part of the ‘context’ is: That M235i MSRP is almost exactly $10,000 less than the [ US ] MSRP of the 2011 335iS I took delivery of in Munich. And [ for me ] I believe it is actually a better car than that 335iS in almost every aspect – and certainly in the ‘top 10’ aspects most important to me.

Does not make it a bargain, but ‘worth it’, to me.

Ray

NOT ordering today . . .

I agree with you all the way around. I am hoping to get my 05 into that dealer this weekend for an oil change and inspection and will try to get some seat time.

If my lease were up on the 335i were up today the M235i would be the 1st and 2nd choice. I can get by with a coupe as well. I do have to say I am very intrigued by the upcoming Audi S3.

As with any other model, I think prices will stabilize a bit once there is a decent supply in the market, only caveat to that is I have heard BMW is going to keep M235i production down. I can't believe they would keep it too restricted if there is demand.

jayrider · March 2014

@oldfarmer50 said:

Perry Mason isn't real ? Next you'll tell me there is no Easter Bunny.

nyccarguy · March 2014

Interesting dealership visit. My best friend's wife drives a 2012 X5. Her lease is up in June. My friend is starting to research the X5s replacement. While they both LOVE the way the X5 drives, they don't like how rough it rides on anything but freshly paved roads nor do they like how many tires it has gone through. He's super careful, she wasn't at 1st, but after the first 4 "flats" & sidewall bubbles she is. He drives a 2011 LTZ Tahoe (like my Dad's, they got it on the same day from the same dealership). He goes to Lexus of Westport (extremely wealthy area) to inquire about the GX 460. That's about as far as he got.

"Hi, I'm interested in checking out a 2014 GX 460 for my wife."

"We currently don't have any in stock for you to see. Every single one is sold before it comes in. What does your wife drive now?"

"She has a 2012 X5. I've never sat in one before, much less driven one, how will I know if I like it and if my wife will like it? You really don't even have one I can look at?"

"Driving the GX will make you think the BMW rides like a Chevy. We sell 100 cars per month (don't laugh Mike, but the dealers up here aren't nearly as big as the ones in FLA). It is the end of the month and we have exactly 2 RXs and 1 LX in stock."

"a Chevy huh?"

"We are supposed to be getting a 2012 Pre Owned GX 460 on Thursday. You can come back and look at it/test drive it if you like. The interior is the same. Exterior is slight different."

The salesman also told him that his clients tell him once they drive a GX, they don't want anything else. They just trade in for a new one. The resale value is so high that most trade in their 36 month leases after 30 months. They get a new one with a lower payment.

He plans on going back on Thursday just to check it out.

boomchek · March 2014

....... but after the first 4 "flats" & sidewall bubbles ......

graphicguy · March 2014

nyc....just an opinion, but I would bet the Tahoe trumps the GX. It's been a couple of years since I have driven a GX that a neighbor had, but I don't think they change all that much.

My previous gen Tahoe was actually one of the best vehicles I had ever owned. Great ride, and for the size, handled well. MPG was not its strong suit, but it won't be with a GX, either. Plus, I can guarantee that maintenance on the Tahoe would be a ton cheaper than it would be with a GX.

For reasons I can't explain, Lexus dealers aren't the most customer friendly. I've made a few attempts to deal with the two Lexus dealers around Southern OH and Northern KY. My impression is they just don't seem to care one way or the other.

qbrozen · March 2014

sounds like all Toyota dealers I've dealt with, too.

fintail · March 2014

I'll say one of the biggest annoyances on the Bluetec are the tires - runflats are loud and feel like normal tires that are way overinflated. The worst part of it is that other market adblue cars get normal tires with a patch kit - but probable fear of the lawyering cabal in Murica made MB put rfts on the diesels here. Stupid. If I was keeping the car, I'd swap them out and risk it with a patch kit.

roadburner · March 2014

If I buy another late model BMW-which, even after owning 10 Bimmers since 1983 is in considerable doubt-it will almost certainly be either a Z4 M Coupe or an E92 M3 ZCP. I think my good. friend and fellow Roundel contributor Mark Calabrese are going to embark on a joint M Coupe hunt come the summer months...

stickguy · March 2014

I was considering renting a car to try something new later in April for an extended road trip (philly-> south carolina -> N. carolina -> home). Thought I might give the family truckster (RDX) a break before I blow out the warranty on it. Of course, at the time I thought it was going to be just me and the kid, but now turns out the wife is coming too, so leaving it home for her doesn't really apply! That trip will probably end up being about 1,300 miles in 4 days.

also making a quick RT next week to Boston (only about 650 miles) so that will be about a 2K hit in one month. But, we paid all the money for it, might as well use it. I just hate the tiny gas tank on long trips.

If it was just me and kid going to Beantown we might have taken the Volvo, but I really don't care to drive it that far. And the TL is getting a bit long in the tooth at this point. Going to restrict that to about a 2 hour radius I think.

will definitely need a replacement car if I change jobs and add a 30-40 mile RT commute again, or if the kid goes to college at a place where she can have a car (unless it is the local school (45 minutes away) in which case she can keep the Volvo).

I am almost hoping the Boston school wins. That way, she will never need a car, so I can hog the resources for my own wheels!

breld · March 2014

Man, some of these Lexus dealers sure are arrogant.

A few years ago I was at a work function and one of my co-worker's husband was a salesperson for Lexus. We talked cars a bit, and at the time I had just purchased my 530xi. He was pretty bold (much like the salesperson on the GX vs. X5 discussion above) about his distaste for BMWs and how they rode so rough.

A couple of years later, he had switched dealerships and was happily selling to several co-workers at my company. At a BMW dealership.

stickguy · March 2014

The only dealers where I really recall being ignored (dissed?) was the Lexus dealer, and of all things, a Chevy dealer. At least the Lexus place may have profiled me!

andres3 · March 2014

@isellhondas said:

I've had 3 cars repaired in my lifetime by auto body shops, (not counting the S4). One was pretty extensive damage, one was moderate (like the S4), and one was minor (just the rear bumper).

I can tell you that the body shops are 0 for 3 at restoring the cars to like-new condition. One did very good work, but the car was just never the same (didn't handle the same; frame was bent). One did lousy work and it showed. The other couldn't even paint the rear bumper correctly nor make it fit quite right (and that's all that needed fixing).

So I think diminished value at 15 to 20% of the value makes sense from what I've seen in my limited experience in my lifetime. It's basically a reflection that body shops are limited in their capabilities; even the best of them (I think). Audi specifically said if frame damage shows up on the Car Fax (or is found by the used car appraiser on inspection) the car can't be sold "certified used," which certainly lowers its value further.

Like insurance, body shops seem to be one big rip off and fraud. I'd prefer we just eliminate the whole industry and say that all damages are not repairable, and all cars must be totaled when involved in an accident. AT least, if there is structural damage, total the car. I realize my sample of experience is limited, and maybe this "Audi" authorized body shop will change my mind about the car body repair business as a whole.

nyccarguy · March 2014

@graphicguy

The Tahoe is my friend's truck. He loves it. He's car shopping for his wife. My Dad also has a 2011 Tahoe that he loves. He says besides the Cayenne that he just got rid of a few months ago, the Tahoe is the best riding car he's ever owned.

@fintail

What brand of tires are on the BlueTec? At 26,000 miles, I switched from the stock Continentals to Michelin Primacy MXM ZP (zero pressure) and couldn't be happier. The stock continentals were getting loud and really felt like there was nothing Between me and the pot holes. The Michelins do everything better & are still doing great after 13,000 miles. Now would I switch a car that has traditional tires to run flats? No. But I wouldn't hesitate to buy another car with run flats.

@boomcheck

Funny you say that. My parents had an '08 328xi and they thought it rode horribly. My 2011 drives like a completely different car.

nyccarguy · March 2014

@andres3

There are some exquisite body shops out there, you just have to find them. They are off the beaten path. Obviously there are accidents that couldn't even be fixed if the car was brought back to the factory. I have seen some really crummy body work (mismatched color, misaligned body panels, drip marks, over spray...), but I've also seen some extraordinary body work that is virtually undetectable.

andres3 · March 2014

@nyccarguy said:
andres3

but I've also seen some extraordinary body work that is virtually undetectable.

Ahhh... Therein lies the rub... Even you admit extraordinary excellent body work is still detectable, as you qualified it with "virtually."

If it's detectible there is diminished value. Would you rather have an S4 built in Ingolstadt, Germany, or an S4 built in Escondido, CA. One builds hundreds if not thousands a year, the other builds a handful yearly (at most).

I know where I'd rather get mine.

corvette · March 2014

@andres3 said:
Like insurance, body shops seem to be one big rip off and fraud.

You can blame the insurance industry for part of that. They have artificially kept body shop labor rates low (below $30 per hour for some types of work) and in many instances refuse to pay what it actually costs for a top-notch repair. I, too, have rarely been impressed with body work that I've seen. Honestly, in what business can you gross $30-50 per hour, pay skilled employees, and cover your overhead for materials, equipment, and real estate? The short answer is that you can't, so corners end up getting cut. Not to mention that a body shop has always has an inherent disincentive to total the car--if they total it at the outset, they don't get to charge tens of thousands of dollars in repair costs.

When I had a minor repair done to my leased Audi A4 after someone backed into it, the Audi certified body shop did an outstanding job with the paint work, but when I received the car back, one of the floor mats was missing its retainer clip, the entire interior was covered with dust, and they somehow had managed to get a milky residue on the inside of the instrument cluster. Hope you have better luck with your Audi.

Mr_Shiftright · March 2014

There's DV even if the repairs aren't detectable. This is called "inherent DV".

fintail · March 2014

Bridgestone Turanza. They won't wear out before the end of the lease, but if I was buying a car, I'd maybe hope to find one with worn tires so I can justify replacing them with conventional tires. I am not sold on the tech. I'll risk it with a patch kit - I swear I can strongly feel the handling and ride difference.

@nyccarguy said:
fintail

What brand of tires are on the BlueTec?

nyccarguy · March 2014

@fintail

There's your problem. Bridgestones.

@andres3

I'm not doubting the diminished value isn't there. With the advent and popularity it most definitely is. Even if you shipped your car back to the factory to have them fix it, it will be worth less than one that was never hit at all. I am just saying that it is possible to have a car with thousands of dollars in damage fixed to its per-accidental condition.

andres3 · March 2014

One question to ask is if Insurance companies are hypocritical when it comes to DV. Let's say there was a 2nd accident later on in the future that totaled the car. Might some less faithful insurance companies try to use DV against you in cashing out the car that's totaled the second time around? If insurance companies don't consider previous accidents in determining ACV (actual cash value), at least they are being consistent.

I'd love to see my S4 restored to its pre-accident condition. That would mean it's "virtually" flawless, and has no rattles. The only flaw I heard or saw in the first 4,100 miles was that two times the CD player appeared to rattle with the CD spinning inside it when no music was playing (because I switched to another source or turned it off). I haven't been able to duplicate the issue though. I was going to bring this up at the 5K mile service, but other then that, it's been flawless on warranty issues.

Knowing my luck this accident might cause my S4 to turn into a lemon. I'll never really know if it was the accident or the car from now on.

corvette · March 2014

@andres3 said:
Might some less faithful insurance companies try to use DV against you in cashing out the car that's totaled the second time around?

This is actually a good argument in favor of recognizing DV, even on first-party claims. If they do that, and there is a subsequent claim where the vehicle is totaled, the insurance company would only be obligated to pay the value of a similar car which was previously involved in a similar collision (i.e., a lower total loss payout).

I'd love to see my S4 restored to its pre-accident condition. That would mean it's "virtually" flawless, and has no rattles.

Don't get your hopes up. My GLI has developed a resonance at certain RPMs, and the driver's door (which had its shell replaced) now sounds extremely hollow when I close it.

graphicguy · March 2014

@andres3 said:

If there's paint work done, then it's detectable, no matter how good the shop.

Probably the most egregious body work I had seen was on several new Infinitis that a dealer was working on near Dayton, OH. This was probably more than 5 years ago, but I was looking at G coupes. The local dealer and I have never been able to come to terms. This Dayton dealer and I had a deal on the table, pending inspection.

As these things go, I made an appt to look at the car. When I got to the dealership, my sales person was tied up with someone else, but another sales guy offered to find the car I was interested in for me.

"I think they're just finishing it up."

"Finishing what up?"

At this point, I could tell he had committed a faux pas of some sort. Too late. We were walking towards their detail shop, as the car was being pulled out of the body shop. We were walking towards it when this happened. The car was the only red one I could find in a 3 state area, so I know that's the one I had been negotiating on over the phone.

Cut to the chase, some accident happened with a roof and falling debris in one of the buildings where new cars were being prepped after getting to the dealership.

This created several dents in several cars. It didn't appear that any of it was serious, there were just a lot of little dents in the cars (almost like hail damage). The red one was one of maybe 8-10 they were in different stages of completing repairs on.

I didn't find this story out until my sales person became free and he tried ti minimize what had happened.

Nothing that a few dent pullers, some bondo and paint couldn't rectify. But, the dealer was going to try to sell me a NEW car which had bondo and paint work.

That deal didn't happen.

Anyone who's been around cars a little bit can find paint where it shouldn't be. Or, slightly misfit panels. Or, wiring that isn't secured in the right place, etc. Knock on the body panels and you'll be able to tell where there is metal and where there is bondo.

Some shops are very good, esepecially with the details. Some shops are a bit more caereless. None can totally disguise body work, though (unless they're using all new panels, which insurance companies won't allow).

suydam · March 2014

I have had very good experience with body work, paint and otherwise. A lot of deer-car encounters where I live.

qbrozen · March 2014

the telltale sign I've seen every time is a paint "lip" where the tape was on the inside of a jamb.

xwesx · March 2014

@corvette said:
Don't get your hopes up. My GLI has developed a resonance at certain RPMs, and the driver's door (which had its shell replaced) now sounds extremely hollow when I close it.

I suspect those two things are related. It is quite possible that they did not install sound deadening material in to that shell before they loaded up all the gear and wiring into it. Have you brought this up to them? If so, what was the response?

graphicguy · March 2014

@qbrozen said:
the telltale sign I've seen every time is a paint "lip" where the tape was on the inside of a jamb.

Q....yep....that's almost on every repair job I've seen.

tifighter · March 2014

Would you rather have an S4 built in Ingolstadt, Germany, or an S4 built in Escondido, CA. One builds hundreds if not thousands a year, the other builds a handful yearly (at most).

This makes me chuckle, as I have done the tour at Ingolstadt, and the guide said that line workers were allowed a half liter of beer per hour during work shifts. "After all, this is Bavaria" they said.

nyccarguy · March 2014

@kyfdx

I think your email has been hacked

Kirstie_H · March 2014

@nyccarguy said:
kyfdx

I think your email has been hacked

If you got an email from him in which was just rambling on about how much he adores his fellow hosts, that's normal and to be expected. Consider it legit.

andres3 · March 2014

@tifighter said:
Would you rather have an S4 built in Ingolstadt, Germany, or an S4 built in Escondido, CA. One builds hundreds if not thousands a year, the other builds a handful yearly (at most).

This makes me chuckle, as I have done the tour at Ingolstadt, and the guide said that line workers were allowed a half liter of beer per hour during work shifts. "After all, this is Bavaria" they said.

I'll take a trained professional who has had a half liter of beer with lunch over an untrained inept UAW assembly person any day. And some Chrysler workers were shown on video cameras potentially drinking a lot more than 1/2 liter of beer during breaks.

Michaell · March 2014

@andres3 said:
...untrained inept UAW assembly person...

Quite the sweeping generalization there!

fintail · March 2014

Same beer thing at the AMG engine facility, IIRC. But when a place isn't beholden to an asinine drinking age, perhaps people can handle their drinks better.

corvette · March 2014

@andres3 said:
And some Chrysler workers were shown on video cameras potentially drinking a lot more than 1/2 liter of beer during breaks.

1/2 liter of bourbon is lower in carbs!

breld · March 2014

So I "bought" my car today. As I had intended to do at some point, I purchased my Passat out of its lease. As I expected and hoped, the payoff was simply the cap cost, reduced by the three payments made so far (the first one by VW Credit), taking into account the effective interest for those three months. So, didn't have to pay the rental charge for the stated term, no term or disposition fees (since I was purchasing the car). They tried to tack on the $499 dealer handling, but I kindly expressed my opinion that it wasn't stipulated in the lease contract, and they backed it off. Paid sales tax of course on the payoff amount.

Put a chunk down on the payoff and financed the remainder at 2.24%. Pretty good for essentially financing a "used" car.

So, pretty happy with the approach of leasing to take advantage of the lease incentives (huge for VW), then converting to a purchase.

breld · March 2014

While at the VW dealer I did throw out the idea of wanting a nicer model Passat, wondering if they would be eager enough for another sale to more or less give me enough value on the current car to cut my losses and lease a new, nicer one.

Not unexpectedly, the depreciation was too much to stomach and I kindly declined. Doesn't hurt to try.

tifighter · March 2014

@andres3 said:

I guess. All I will say is as a two-time Audi owner, learning this fact did not surprise me in the least. But a great tour if you ever get the chance.

tifighter · March 2014

@breld Congrats on the 'conversion .' You always hear that leasing a car you intend to buy is a bad idea, but you seem to made the incentives work in your favor. Of course, now that the lease is gone, it's easier to trade...

tifighter · March 2014

@fintail said:
Same beer thing at the AMG engine facility, IIRC.

Would like to do a MB tour but I rarely get up to Stuttgart. Back to CH and F in a few weeks.

nyccarguy · March 2014

@breld

glad you liked the car enough to buy it out just a few months into the lease. You made the lease terms work in your favor and got a nice interest rate to finance. I say as soon as you can, you are going to trade "up" for a Passat with a little more equipment.

I can't believe the dealer tried to stick you with their $499 processing fee. Didn't you pay that at lease inception?

On the VW front, Jack Daniels VW in Northern, NJ shows over 40 2013 VWs in stock and on their website. The prices don't look that great, unless those are just to get you into the showroom. With prices on 2014s so low already, how much cheaper would a 2013 have to be?

breld · March 2014

@tifighter said:
breld Congrats on the 'conversion .' You always hear that leasing a car you intend to buy is a bad idea, but you seem to made the incentives work in your favor. Of course, now that the lease is gone, it's easier to trade...

Won't deny that's part of the incentive.

graphicguy · March 2014

breld...nice job. Good deal!

qbrozen · March 2014

who wants an e46 m3?

Pretty nice one, sans the climate package, though. $16k-17k should be more than enough to buy it, methinks.

rayainsw · March 2014

Passed 10,000 miles on the GTI on my drive home from the annual Auto Show here.

The 2015 GTI was on display at the show. I expect improvement in several areas over my 2013. Nice enough, but I think that I will probably spend the additional $s for the BMW. I am still quite satisfied with my GTI, but I do not think I could go that route again. For what it is, and at the price point, I think the GTI is [ and will remain ] ‘best of breed’. I did note that they have apparently decided to do what MINI did regarding a sunroof shield = a woven fabric that still lets in light – and would let in Deep South heat, I fear. No clue why anyone thinks this is a good idea.

No mechanical issues – so far.

Nothing rattles or squeaks, moans or groans - nothing has fallen off. The interior shows no wear. No new complaints.

Cheers,

Ray

Ready for another 15,000 miles
– or so.

Michaell · March 2014

The death of a dream.

For years, my wife has aspired to a Volvo SUV or wagon. She followed one on the road yesterday and was reminded why - good looks, good safety, nice features.

However, she has a co-worker who owns one (don't know which model) and she told my wife that she's had nothing but problems with it.

Granted, it's a sample of one, but she's now soured on them as an eventual replacement for the Mazda. Since it will be several years at the earliest before we get her something new, I'm wondering what the experts here say about Volvo's in general. Stick, how do you like your S40? I know someone had an XC90 at one point - how was that?

fintail · March 2014

The tax evaders should give you a day off - Stuttgart is a doable day trip by car from most places in CH or eastern France. AMG tour requires planning, but the MB tour is easier to arrange, I think.

@tifighter said:

Mr_Shiftright · March 2014

Well, if you think that all the people building cars in Germany are "trained professionals", then you owe it to yourself to confirm that and take a factory tour. They are "trained" to do a specific small task, and I'm not sure where the "professional" comes in. If you're thinking Germans in shop coats and shirts and ties---eh......probably not. Maybe some smart hard-working Turks and Italians who smoke a lot.

Building a car is hard work. I invite all critics of assembly line workers to give it a shot.

@andres3 said:

qbrozen · March 2014

We had an XC90 for a little while. Wife loved it, but it was problematic. It was under warranty when we first got it and I was sure to ask the dealer to check the bevel gear collar at every visit because I knew of the common problem. Of course, they said "its fine" each time right up until it was just past warranty. $1800 to fix the leak. We dumped it a couple of weeks later without fixing it. Prior to that, went through 2 sets of front wheel bearings and 1 electrical gremlin that brought up some strange warning lights on the dash that I never personally witnessed but my wife did.

I think you have to get the "right" volvo. So far, that has meant a '98 S70 for me, of which I'm on my 2nd.

laurasdada · March 2014

"2014 Cadillac ELR Recalled"

Have they even sold one?!

isellhondas · March 2014

I made the mistake of selling a used Volvo to a young gal I knew. It about bankrupted her with
constant repair bills. She will no longer even talk to me.

Because of that and other Volvo horror stories I steered people away from them.

Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles