Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

Michaell · March 2014

@qbrozen said:
We had an XC90 for a little while. Wife loved it, but it was problematic. It was under warranty when we first got it and I was sure to ask the dealer to check the bevel gear collar at every visit because I knew of the common problem. Of course, they said "its fine" each time right up until it was just past warranty. $1800 to fix the leak. We dumped it a couple of weeks later without fixing it. Prior to that, went through 2 sets of front wheel bearings and 1 electrical gremlin that brought up some strange warning lights on the dash that I never personally witnessed but my wife did.

I think you have to get the "right" volvo. So far, that has meant a '98 S70 for me, of which I'm on my 2nd.

Oh, dear. What MY was your XC90?

Issues like that would not go over well with the spouse. Tough to discern those types of problems on a 20 minute test drive.

I like both the V60 and XC60, but optioned up the way she wants, both are over $40K.

She did mention a new car for her soon - the Mazda is closing in on 50K (gasp!). I'd rather have her continue to drive it until it's paid off, then make a decision. Maybe we can revert back to leasing - lower payment and a guaranteed schedule for the next car.

qbrozen · March 2014

our xc90 was an '05

breld · March 2014

@nyccarguy said:
breld

I can't believe the dealer tried to stick you with their $499 processing fee. Didn't you pay that at lease inception?

On the VW front, Jack Daniels VW in Northern, NJ shows over 40 2013 VWs in stock and on their website. The prices don't look that great, unless those are just to get you into the showroom. With prices on 2014s so low already, how much cheaper would a 2013 have to be?

Yeah, in my research online about buying out your VW lease, I found several others, specifically in Colorado, where the dealers try to charge their dealer handling. There's something particular about these leases in Colorado - I found you can't transfer a VW lease (leasetrader.com, swapalease, etc.) that originates in the state to another owner in-state, but you can transfer to an out-of-state owner. Similarly, you can't simply payoff your lease through VW Credit if it originates in CO - you have to do it through a dealer. And I think the dealerships try to make a little money on transacting that deal.

To be fair, they basically went through all the paperwork almost as if I were buying a new car. So there is some additional work on their part.

boomchek · March 2014

@isellhondas said:
I made the mistake of selling a used Volvo to a young gal I knew. It about bankrupted her with
constant repair bills. She will no longer even talk to me.

Because of that and other Volvo horror stories I steered people away from them.

I hate selling any car to someone I know. Problems typically will crop up on older cars and it might lead to a ruined friendship down the road. Just recently a friend came on our lot looking to buy a used car. I steered him away from a few that I knew had issues that we were working on and sold him a 1 year old Jetta that was still under factory warranty. Lo and behold it had an oil leak that VW wouldn't fix under warranty because the previous owner was servicing iit at small lube joints and they stripped the thread off the oil drain plug, which required a new oil pan. We did replace the oil pan it at our cost but I'm thankful it wasn't a bigger issue.

breld · March 2014

I like that M3, especially in that color. About a month ago I probably would've been pretty tempted if it could be had around $16-17k, as you suggest Q.

I've cooled a bit, at least for the time being, on the acquisition of a fun car. I'm coming to the realization that with where I'm at in life right now (kids sports, work schedules, etc.), I rarely get the opportunity to even drive the fun cars I've had in the past.

So we'll see - the equity I got out of the 335xi sale is sitting in the bank as an informal car fund . It was very much earmarked for a ZHP or something like that, but I may just bank it for now. Right now, I'm more interested in possibly putting it toward a future purchase of a nicer sedan and - shock!!! - maintaining just one car for myself (not counting the Ody).

Michaell · March 2014

@qbrozen said:
our xc90 was an '05

I wonder if quality has improved since then.

If we had to replace the CX-7 today, I'd probably steer the wife towards either a Tuscon or a Santa Fe Sport. Smart looking, loaded with features for a decent price.

breld · March 2014

I'm very intrigued with the upcoming Acura TLX. I spent a short time at the Acura dealer yesterday, speaking with a very knowledgeable salesperson (I actually went to look at a used ZDX - intriguing for the deep depreciation, but getting in and out of the rear seat is close to torture).

Despite all my love for the BMWs of late, my early driving days were all about Honda. The 4-cylinder, 8-speed DCT TLX sounds pretty appealing to me. In fact, after exhausting the search for a ZHP as a fun car - nyccarguy, you'll appreciate this - I've been browsing listings for Preludes. Definitely a challenging search for a non-molested example.

stickguy · March 2014

Volvos? Knock wood, but ours has been fine. Kind of slow with the base engine but not terribly so. No costly or abnormal issues.

I would buy new. And if leasing, no concerns.

I think the main trouble spot was the older style AWD system. I would avoid that but they maybe have started using a different type by now.

There are also very few true wagons left and all the euros are pricey.

I would happily buy a later v70 FWD 2.5t for myself if I found a clean, well maintained one with records. I always liked those.

nyccarguy · March 2014

@breld

Good luck Prelude hunting. Challenging is definitely a word to describe finding a non-molested model. Make sure you try and find a "base" model & not a Type SH like mine.

boomchek · March 2014

@nyccarguy said:
breld

Good luck Prelude hunting. Challenging is definitely a word to describe finding a non-molested model. Make sure you try and find a "base" model & not a Type SH like mine.

Are you having problems with the ATTS system on your Prelude?

nyccarguy · March 2014

@boomcheck

No problems at all with the ATTS itself. Just the placement of the ATTS. In order for the clutch to be replaced (mine went at 52,000 miles), the ATTS needs to be removed, then re-installed. Which according to the "shop book" for the Prelude requires an additional 5 hours of labor. Clutch replacement on a Prelude Type SH will run somewhere in the $2000 - $2200 range. Also, parts seem to be easier to find for the "base" car. With 151,000 miles on the clock, I'm thinking I might have to replace the shocks soon. Every major manufacturer makes shocks for the "base" Prelude, but I'm having trouble finding shocks for my Type SH.

tifighter · March 2014

@breld Funny you mentioned the ZDX...I've seen a few that seem like really strong deals thanks to the catastrophic depreciation. Its just a MDX underneath, if they got cheap enough...

breld · March 2014

nyccarguy - thanks for the advice on the Prelude. I just assumed the Type SH was the way to go, but given the challenges on maintenance and repairs, a base one would be wise. If nothing else, it's a fun new search to obsess over.

tifighter - this ZDX I looked at was a 2010 with 28k miles or so, with the "Advance" package which I believe includes all the tech goodies (at least for the time). CPO, offered at $31k. Certainly a lot of car for the money, especially if you want something "different." But even the salesperson said most buyers of that car didn't really use the rear seat. The slope of the hatchback is just so severe that I had to really duck my head down to get in the car. And then once in it, headroom was naturally tight.

stickguy · March 2014

31? Darn, I would figure 21, max.

tifighter · March 2014

@breld How was the rear leg room?

For fun I just looked on autotrader locally to compare mdx vs zdx prices. Lowest 10 MDX was $28k base model with 83k miles (!). Lowest 10 ZDX was $30k with 23k miles and tech pkg/navi. ZDX has a nicer grade interior and leather dash, but you give up a lot of utility. It would be fun to test drive one.

nyccarguy · March 2014

@tifighter

I had one as a loaner car once. Rear visibility is horrendous!

MDX's seem to hold their value extremely well.

boomchek · March 2014

No problems at all with the ATTS itself. Just the placement of the ATTS. In order for the clutch to be replaced (mine went at 52,000 miles), the ATTS needs to be removed, then re-installed. Which according to the "shop book" for the Prelude requires an additional 5 hours of labor. Clutch replacement on a Prelude Type SH will run somewhere in the $2000 - $2200 range. Also, parts seem to be easier to find for the "base" car. With 151,000 miles on the clock, I'm thinking I might have to replace the shocks soon. Every major manufacturer makes shocks for the "base" Prelude, but I'm having trouble finding shocks for my Type SH.

Oh wow, that's pricey. But then my brother in law had to do the clutch in his 99 Mercury Cougar back in 2007 and it was also like a $1500-$2000 job as the whole engine subframe had to be removed to access the tranny and clutch.

qbrozen · March 2014

@stickguy said:

I would happily buy a later v70 FWD 2.5t for myself if I found a clean, well maintained one with records. I always liked those.

Yes, me too. But quite a bit later. I'd have to research before purchase, but I believe '05 and up bypasses the transmission issues of the '01+ models (the first-gen of the "geartronic"). OR just buy any year FWD with manual trans.

breld · March 2014

@tifighter said:
breld How was the rear leg room?

Leg room wasn't too bad, but it was hard to get over the lack of headroom from an overall comfort perspective. Keep in mind I am 6' 3", so children may be just fine in the back.

stickguy · March 2014

did some looking today. My daughter was home after school, and wanted to go out test driving (apple and tree applies I guess). So swung by the Hyundai dealer. Checked out a Sonata and Elantra in the showroom. She seemed to like them both. So, we took out a brand new GLS Sonata (7 miles on it). Actually drove OK. pretty smooth and peppy. Interior overall not bad (and this was a strippo, so no leather, no power seats, but otherwise well equipped).

But, overall it did nothing for me. Neither one of us could really see out of it (I was too high, she was too low!). But I can see why many people like them, especially for the price.

stopped at Honda after that, just to sit. Liked the Accord better, outside and in. Though to be fair, it was an EX=L so had power leather, but there was one of those in the showroom at Hyundai, so I don't think it would change our feelings.

She is now fascinated with the Mazda 6. So we will go look at one of those some day. I also have gotten interested in the Altima again, so will look at that too.

Speaking of Altima, since Andre has mentioned them a few times, Fitzmall is blowing them out. 4 cyl S and SV seem to be going for $4,500-$5,000 off of MSRP. Can get a pretty well equipped one for just over 20K. Even an SV with moonroof is only about 22K. Hard to argue with that.

breld · March 2014

Before I went in to pay off the Passat yesterday, I did a nice test drive of a Mazda6 at the VW's sister dealership. It was a GT model, so very well equipped.

I liked it a lot. Definitely lived up to its reputation as the sportier family sedan. It doesn't have the same "open" feel I'm becoming accustomed to in my Passat, but that cockpit feel is deliberate I'm sure. Certainly enough room for your daughter.

You're pretty familiar with the Mazda3, so the same applies for the 6 - the GT model is nice, but the Touring model gives you a lot for the money.

Truth be told, there's a slightly used GT model at a dealership nearby I'm tempted to go look at tomorrow.

stickguy · March 2014

I do like the 6. It is like a "grown up" 3. and you actually can get the 2.5L "monster motor" in the touring for less than it would cost in a 3. Edmunds even said the 6 AT pulled off ~7.1 0-60, so it is quick (by my standards). More room, without feeling too big, and almost the same MPG.

I am starting to lean toward a mid size car after all. Especially when you can get nearly the same MPG as on a compact (accord/civic, Sonata/Elantra) with better acceleration and room/comfort, for similar money.

the other thing I like? Bigger gas tanks. Some of the compacts are sitting with 13 gallons or so, so you don't get that much range. Especially if she picks a southern school, it would be nice to have non-stop range! The Sonata is rated for 35 I think, with an 18.5gal tank! That will bust the bladder.

funny thing about size. My daughter is a peanut (about 5'2", 110#s) and she looks proportional in the S40, but when she sat in the driver's seat of the Sonata, she looked totally lost in space.

Personally, I like a big compact/small mid size. A new S60 is a nice size. The Jetta kind of feels like this too.

breld · March 2014

Yeah, I'm with you. This Passat has opened my eyes to the benefits of larger sedans. Like you said, it helps that they're now getting the strong gas mileage. When I fill up the Passat, the trip computer claims a range in the 500's.

The Mazda6 gets even better mileage, at least according the its EPA ratings. It doesn't have the fun turbo pull like the 1.8t in the VWs, but it is a nice linear 4-cyl, akin to the Honda engines I have enjoyed.

I find the styling of the 6 polarizing. It definitely makes me take a second look when I see them on the road, but I also appreciate the understated (some would say boring) classy look of the Passat.

When I "bought" the Passat yesterday, I also treated myself and ordered the lip spoiler. Just to dress it up a little.

stickguy · March 2014

I do like the style on the passat. Just seems too big for my taste! I am sure the 6 is only a few inches shorter, but it "seems" smaller to me.

I suspect the passat is only a couple hundred pounds heavier than the Jetta, using the same powertrain, so performance should be comparable (as is MPG). It helps when the smaller car (Jetta or Mazda3 2.5) or effectively overpowered.

I do need to check out the 6 up close again, and get it on the road to see if it drives bigger or smaller than it's footprint. And visibility has a lot to do with that (my TL is so easy to see out of that it seems smaller than it really is).

breld · March 2014

The Passat certainly is big - the strong acceleration and tight turning radius definitely help in making it feel maneuverable.

Yesterday, I parked the 6 right next to my Passat to get a feel for its size. Dimensionally, it seems similar, but the Mazda does indeed "drive" smaller. It handles nicely and the interior has a nice cockpit feel. May be a really good fit for you.

Not that you brought it up, but I found the Accord to be a nice middle ground. Feels a bit smaller and sportier than the Passat, but offers just about the same roominess inside.

Sounds like I'm sort of putting down the VW, but I'm finding myself enjoying the comfortable nature of it. Like this afternoon, in Friday rush hour, when it's stop and go for about an hour.

breld · March 2014

Okay - I know these are quirky, but they came out right around the time I was graduating college (and thus buying a new car). It was first on my list to replace my '90 Civic Si. I ended up with a '93 Prelude instead - probably the better choice, but I still have a soft spot for these.

'97 Del Sol Vtec

I don't like the spoiler, red would not be my first choice, those wheels are not my cup of tea, and it's priced a bit high.

But, this was the last year they made them. It is the "Vtec" model that I believe had a whopping 160 hp. And it seems to be in good condition and well maintained.

Curious enough that I'm going to look at it tomorrow.

Michaell · March 2014

@breld said:
Okay - I know these are quirky, but they came out right around the time I was graduating college (and thus buying a new car). It was first on my list to replace my '90 Civic Si. I ended up with a '93 Prelude instead - probably the better choice, but I still have a soft spot for these.

'97 Del Sol Vtec

I don't like the spoiler, red would not be my first choice, those wheels are not my cup of tea, and it's priced a bit high.

But, this was the last year they made them. It is the "Vtec" model that I believe had a whopping 160 hp. And it seems to be in good condition and well maintained.

Curious enough that I'm going to look at it tomorrow.

Wow, that is a nice Del Sol. I agree with you about the wheels and the paint color, but it certainly looks like the nicest one in the Mountain West region. No idea if the price is crazy or not, but I do remember them well. And, at the time, 160HP was a lot.

ab348 · March 2014

This week the Canadian website autos.ca did an 8-car comparo of midsize sedans. They rated the Mazda 6 first, just ahead of the Fusion, largely because of its sporty feel in terms of steering and handling. That isn't a surprise because their opinions tend to skew that way, and they always seem to love Mazdas. But I would be concerned about what they dismissed - a "tinny feel" to the doors and structure, NVH in the ride, and a tight interior. Others who have tested the 6 commented on the disappointing interior design and materials as well. I am not sold on it unless you value handling above all else. For a midsize sedan I want comfort, quiet, room and competent, but not sportscar caliber, handling and performance.

28firefighter · March 2014

Hi all. I've been MIA for a bit, but had a lot going on. Wife and I are closing on our first house on Monday, so have been going through the motions of mortgage approval and planning for the move. Also just got back from vacation in Maui with my wife's family which was a wonderful time and kept me off line for a whole 7 days! A miracle in this day and age...

Keeping it car related, we rented a minivan from Hertz while we were down in Maui. Man was that thing beat up. 2013 Dodge Caravan with 27k miles and looked/drove like it had at least triple that number of miles. Since when do the rental companies keep cars that long?

tifighter · March 2014

@ab348 That autos.ca comparison praises the 6GT for its sportiness, but it was a manual GT, a combo not available down here in the states. When I test drove the 6, I felt the 6AT was not very responsive, which was disappointing given most Mazda trannies I've driven in the past were very good. Maybe I got a bad one...

stickguy · March 2014

there is a red del sol that lives around the corner from me, but I don't think it is a vtec. Looks OK but well used.

roadburner · March 2014

@ab348 said:
This week the Canadian website autos.ca did an 8-car comparo of midsize sedans. They rated the Mazda 6 first, just ahead of the Fusion, largely because of its sporty feel in terms of steering and handling. That isn't a surprise because their opinions tend to skew that way, and they always seem to love Mazdas. But I would be concerned about what they dismissed - a "tinny feel" to the doors and structure, NVH in the ride, and a tight interior. Others who have tested the 6 commented on the disappointing interior design and materials as well. I am not sold on it unless you value handling above all else. For a midsize sedan I want comfort, quiet, room and competent, but not sportscar caliber, handling and performance.

I'm waiting for a new Mazdaspeed 3. My 2007 may well be my first and last FWD car, but I'll be interested to see the MS3 if/when it sees production...

breld · March 2014

Well, the Del Sol looked and drove better in my head (and from my memory from 20 years ago when I last drove one), than in reality. In fact, I didn't drive it at all.

From a cosmetic perspective, it is probably in really nice shape for a 1997 Honda. But the paint had plenty of oxidation, particularly on the roof panel. The interior was in very nice condition. The aftermarket wheels and an aftermarket exhaust that stuck out a bit too far were certainly detractions for my taste.

But the real kicker (pun intended I suppose) was a subwoofer box the owner had built and placed behind the seats. Now, the car is a tight fit to begin with, but that placement took away about 6 inches of travel for the driver's seat. I quickly realized I couldn't safely drive the car (and operate the clutch).

Now a test drive wouldn't have changed anything on whether I was legitimately interested in the car at that point based on the condition, but it was a little disappointing to not have driven it.

xwesx · March 2014

Yeah, memories have a way of doing that!

I don't really like the styling of the Del Sol all that much. It just looked a little too... bubble-ish to be a sporty car. Almost like a miniature version of a Ford Probe (sorry to insult it so!). I think those odd-angled photos on the Craigslist ad were intentional to make it seem more dynamic and exciting than reality. Some cars inspire and some cars don't. I think this one falls soundly into the latter category.

Michaell · March 2014

Calling all CCBA'ers!

As you know, I've been a moderator here at Edmunds since last September. Recently, I've been given the keys to the kingdom - access to all the manufacturer lease info that kyfdx uses to answer questions in the "Prices Paid" forum.

Anyway, I'm putting together a spreadsheet of information I'm hoping you can help with. In it, I'm wanting to document all the state specific rules and exceptions that pertain to buying and leasing.

For example, I know that in Texas and Illinois (and, I think, Maryland), sales tax is computed on a lease against the entire selling price, not just the depreciated value. And that in NY, doc fees are capped at $75. And in South Carolina, sales tax is capped at $300 when you buy.

I'm looking for more information similar to that - anything that you know that I can document in one single place to use as a reference.

You can respond either here in the CCBA discussion or you can email me privately using the email address michaell at edmunds dot com.

Thanks in advance for your help!

graphicguy · March 2014

Michaell...reporting from southwest OH. Sales tax on a lease is based on the actual monthly lease payment. For example, $400/mo payment x 6.5% sales tax (varies by county) would be an additional $26/mo.

So called doc fees are capped at $250. However, it is NOT TRUE that they are mandated as a requriement of the state to be charged. It is a VOLUNTARY charge each dealer chooses to charge, either in part, or in whole.

The actual doc fees in Ohio are as follows (some, or all apply depending on situation)....

-Plate/registration transfer-$4.50
-Temporary (30-day) tag-$18.50
-Lien notation-$15.00
-Memorandum Certificate-$5.00
-Annual Vehicle Renewal fee-$34.50

nyccarguy · March 2014

Check this out CCBA members:

Top 10 High Quality Low Cost Used Cars

nyccarguy · March 2014

@‌michaell

In NY - GAP is included in all leasing and finance contracts written within the state. There is also a $12.50 New York State Tire Waste Recycling Fee added to the every new car sale.

In CT - DOC fees aren't capped. They are actually called "Conveyance Fees" Here. The law states the dealer must charge the same Conveyance Fee to all retail customers.

Mr_Shiftright · March 2014

Nothing on that list I would be caught dead in, although a couple of them are fun to drive.

@nyccarguy said:
Check this out CCBA members:

Top 10 High Quality Low Cost Used Cars

corvette · March 2014

@nyccarguy said:
Check this out CCBA members:

Can't believe the L200 is on that list. They were not known for their reliability.

stever · March 2014

The Vibes/Matrixes keep making those lists. My wife, bless her, out of the blue started looking at used minivans on craigslist (and pickups - one of those could be handy for our upcoming move at the end of the summer).

Mr_Shiftright · March 2014

I'ts not easy to design a homely two-seater, but BMW has managed. I suppose I could drive a Cherokee as a winter beater, or maybe a Corvette if I won it in a contest.

Michaell · March 2014

@Stever@Edmunds said:
The Vibes/Matrixes keep making those lists. My wife, bless her, out of the blue started looking at used minivans on craigslist (and pickups - one of those could be handy for our upcoming move at the end of the summer).

If the move is taking you to NM, you've got to swing through Colorado again and meet up.

Are you going to get to 200K before getting something else?

stever · March 2014

@Michaell@Edmunds said:
Are you going to get to 200K before getting something else?

Hopefully, if only for the bragging rights.

The pizza is on me.

tifighter · March 2014

@nyccarguy said:
Check this out CCBA members:

Top 10 High Quality Low Cost Used Cars

Steve Lang knows his stuff. His point isn't what the best used car is, it is what cars get overlooked in everyone's quest to overpay for a used Toyota.

Michaell · March 2014

@Stever@Edmunds said:
The pizza is on me.

Well, if that's the case, I know a few pizza joints in my town that serve beer.

qbrozen · March 2014

I can agree with just about everything on there. The only ones I would never own are the Cherokee and Park Ave.

Michaell - in NJ, you are taxed on what you use, but can reduce that with a trade-in. So if the depreciation on the lease will be $12k and your trade is worth $6k, you only pay tax on the $6k remaining. If your trade is worth $15k, you pay $0 tax. And, no, you don't get a tax refund for any excess.

breld · March 2014

Forgot to mention, after I looked at the Del Sol on Saturday, I was still in a "Honda" mood, so I stopped and drove that '93 red Legend Coupe 6-speed I had posted here a few weeks ago.

Not bad - cosmetically looked pretty good. "Normal Wear" rock chips on the hood, some paint fading here and there, worn leather on the passenger's seat but no tears anywhere. Drove nicely, though the brakes need to be replaced - I discovered that when coming to a somewhat unexpected stop and my heart raced a bit as I neared the car in front.

But, nothing I'm too interested - more intrigued by a "classic" 4 cylinder/manual Honda.

Though if I were interested in something like that Legend, I'd steer more toward something like this:

Acura CL Type S 6-speed

Probably a little safer bet. Another car I really wanted back in the day. Can you tell I'm all nostalgic for Honda products now?

isellhondas · March 2014

OK, where are the BMW guys? One of you should snap this up!
http://seattle.craigslist.org/est/cto/4375994393.html

Can someone tell me what "pentrosi oil' or a trunk "oil bag" is?

1100.00 for a seat rail? Maybe BMW really stands for Breaks More Wallets!

Not for the faint of heart for sure!

isellhondas · March 2014

Oh, I suppose this one could be even more expensive to maintain...

http://seattle.craigslist.org/est/cto/4392095969.html

Maybe not?

Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles