Real-World Trade-In Values

Mr_Shiftright · March 2014

I'd price it at $3995 and see if the phone rings. You've got some things against you here--a V6 instead of V8, and a base coupe rather than a ragtop or a Formula trim. On the plus side, the low miles is good.

If someone with real money offered you $2500, I'd take it.

isellhondas · March 2014

A lot of people won't buy a car that is an "orphan" out of fear parts and service would be difficult.

From what you describe however, I would throw it out there for around the 3000.00 range and see what happens. 1500.00 won't buy anything these days.

It sounds like a nice car that would quickly get snapped up!

boomchek · March 2014

Yeah, someone looking for a fun summer car, or a kid looking for something fun as a first car will snatch it up. And it's not as powerful as a V8 so even a first time buyer's parents might be ok with their kid driving it.

Like the others said, start high and see if anyone calls. You can always lower the price. $3500 would be a good starting point and if you're getting lots of calls at that price I'd hold firm on the price. On trade at a dealer you might get $500-$1000 for it.

How much were you thinking of asking for it?

suydam · March 2014

What it has against it is no safety features like today's cars. So not a good car for a teenager or many other people. That's why the $1500 I'm guessing. That seems about right.

bosox11 · March 2014

Just my recent tale of 5 dealers looked at my 03 Altima Auto 157K miles . Ready here is what i got for ACV (actual cash value) quotes were ...1300, 1800, 2000,2100,2200, all of them were just going to wholesale a great looking & running car. So I put it on line and price it at $3975 and had 14 calls inside of 2 days .... sold it on the second day !! I know a used car lot would be about $4500. so I priced it to move & she was gone. There is a benefit to selling it yourself as well... but price it to sell not collect dust !!!1

qbrozen · March 2014

oh boy... I'll be blunt on the firechicken. Awful color, awful engine, awful transmission. What's to love here? I guess it has T tops. I suppose that should be the leader on your ad.

Boy, I dunno. You are really going to have to be patient and find the person who just loves these or is at least in love with the idea of one. Try Ebay with dozens of high-res pics and a great description and a low starting price of $1995 and see what happens.

boomchek · March 2014

@bosox11 said:
Just my recent tale of 5 dealers looked at my 03 Altima Auto 157K miles . Ready here is what i got for ACV (actual cash value) quotes were ...1300, 1800, 2000,2100,2200, all of them were just going to wholesale a great looking & running car. So I put it on line and price it at $3975 and had 14 calls inside of 2 days .... sold it on the second day !! I know a used car lot would be about $4500. so I priced it to move & she was gone. There is a benefit to selling it yourself as well... but price it to sell not collect dust !!!1

You'll always get more when selling privately, some people just don't have the time and patience to do it. And yes the trade values you were offered are the right numbers because the dealer needs to mark it up to resell it and leave room for any potential repairs that might pop up.

alpha123 · March 2014

Hey guys...appreciate the info you're giving on here. All people want is a fair deal....well plus a little sweeter. I used this forum's advice and process a good deal on my new Highlander a while back..for my wife. Now it's my turn except I'm going used and lower budget.

My process will be similar to the new sales process: find 5-10 "similar cars", email the sales manager with my price and wait for their response with a goal to buy in 2-3 weeks.

In terms of pricing, I plan on referencing manheim/block pricing from a friend and adding $1k or so. My thinking is also that any price posted by the dealer online is about $3-4 over what they paid for the car. Is that a good approach?

Other details: in Chicago, looking at 2010-2012 TSX, Camry, Legend and maybe civic. Hoping to score a nice car for $12k. I know tons of variables but please let me know if I'm thinking right and I will post specifics once I narrow the search.

Again any thoughts are appreciated!

nyccarguy · March 2014

@alpha123‌

While you are using the right research tools, like our resident experts, @qbrozen, @boomcheck, Mannheim auction values, & of course the rest of the peanut gallery here on RWTIV, I think you are off the mark on how much to offer over the auction value.

The car is bought at the auction for X, then there are auction fees, transportation charges, reconditioning fees. So $1000 over auction value might just be very close to the dealer's break even point.

You also never know just how much a dealer has in a car. They could have over valued the trade-in to push a new car sale through and there might not be that much room for negotiations. They also on the other hand might have sold the new car cheap, but in turn, also got the trade in for a much lower than average price.

It also depends how long the car has been sitting on their lot, what color it is, what options it has, what other dealers have similar cars priced at, the year of the car...

Look online for things you like & post all the info. We'll help you figure out a good price to purchase

isellhondas · March 2014

@qbrozen said:
oh boy... I'll be blunt on the firechicken. Awful color, awful engine, awful transmission. What's to love here? I guess it has T tops. I suppose that should be the leader on your ad.

Boy, I dunno. You are really going to have to be patient and find the person who just loves these or is at least in love with the idea of one. Try Ebay with dozens of high-res pics and a great description and a low starting price of $1995 and see what happens.

I'll agree that green isn't the best color but there are always people who happen to like green or simply don't care. I disagree on the "awful" engine and transmission. They were really not that bad. Not wonderful but not that bad, really.

I would advertise it at 3475.00 and see what happens. Like someone said, that would make a great first car. All it takes is one buyer.

boomchek · March 2014

Personally if I were in the market for a "different" commuter car, I wouldn't hesitate to grab an old Firebird, even in base model trim. $2-3k wold seem fair to me assuming the car was in decent shape and not needing any serious work to be done.

qbrozen · March 2014

@alpha123 said:
Hey guys...appreciate the info you're giving on here. All people want is a fair deal....well plus a little sweeter. I used this forum's advice and process a good deal on my new Highlander a while back..for my wife. Now it's my turn except I'm going used and lower budget.

My process will be similar to the new sales process: find 5-10 "similar cars", email the sales manager with my price and wait for their response with a goal to buy in 2-3 weeks.

In terms of pricing, I plan on referencing manheim/block pricing from a friend and adding $1k or so. My thinking is also that any price posted by the dealer online is about $3-4 over what they paid for the car. Is that a good approach?

Other details: in Chicago, looking at 2010-2012 TSX, Camry, Legend and maybe civic. Hoping to score a nice car for $12k. I know tons of variables but please let me know if I'm thinking right and I will post specifics once I narrow the search.

Again any thoughts are appreciated!

I find they are most typically priced $4k over and a fair price all around that will only get you kicked out of about 1/3 of dealerships is $2500 over.

boomchek · March 2014

@alpha123

What nyccarguy said is pretty much spot on. Used car prices vary and depend on a ton of different factors. Some cars might have been reduced in price because they're 90 day or older units, and there might not be much, if any room to move. Others might have come in $3k-$4k less than priced at retail but could have needed reconditioning (dents, painting bumpers, brakes, tires, etc..) which could easily push the cost up a grand or two.

In terms of your approach of emailing for best prices on a used car, I would have to disagree with your approach.

First, very few if any managers will want to give best prices out on a used car you haven't seen, not even sure of you want to buy, and that you're not ready to move on right away (as within a day or two). Even if they do give you a deal you're happy with, it's meaningless because the car could sell the next day, and might not be replaced by the time you are ready to buy. It is a used car after all and every used car is different. A dealer will rather not give out a quote and sit on the car until someone walks in the door who's ready to buy it on the spot, and possibly pay more than what you are willing to pay. On a new car it's a different story because if you're price shopping a specific model, there are probably a 100 of them in inventory, so if one sells, there's another one available at the same price, with the same specs.

Second, it's fine to make a list of cars with comparable specs and comparable prices, but go out and see them in person and test drive them when you're close to making a purchase decision. Cross off the models from the list that you don't like, the ones that are not in the condition that's acceptable to you, and, just focus on one or two or three that you really like, and then negotiate on the price, starting with the one you like the most. If you agree on the price then buy it on the spot.

We have people coming in all the time, who are weeks or months away from purchasing but want to negotiate. It's pointless and we don't get into numbers until they're ready to buy because even if we agree on the numbers the car might not be available by the time the customers comes back and buys, not to mention all the other factors like changing their mind, not being in the market anymore, etc...

It's like buying a house. No point emailing 10 different house sellers and negotiating on the price until you've seen the house in person, stepped foot in it, and you are ready to move on it if your offer is accepted.

Negotiating is typically the last step in the process, not the first, so that's why we don't do it, nor any dealers I've worked at before until the customer has seen the car and is ready to buy.

Good luck.

qbrozen · March 2014

I should have said $2500 if a good price to settle on. But you can always offer $1500 over to start. All depends on your negotiating style and how much time you have to kill.

alpha123 · March 2014

@qbrozen @boomchek‌ @nyccarguy‌ hey guys, thanks for all the feedback. And thanks for pointing out the key differences between buying new and used...makes lots of sense. Now that I think about it, this is going to be a little tougher than I thought. Sounds like the biggest thing is finding what I want, figuring out value, make the offer and be ready to buy. Much tighter timing than new cars and more variables (condition, vehicle history's reconditioning).

nyccarguy · March 2014

@alpha123‌

New vs. Used is a tough call. Cars in general are infinitely more durable & reliable today than they were 20+ years ago. The problem with that is people in general don't seem to care as much for their cars & I feel like there is a potential for newer cars to develop more expensive problems down the road. People take their cars to a quick lube oil change joint, they might not change the transmission fluid, differential fluid, or brake fluid per the manufacturer's recommendations. So yes you are buying the car cheaper because of the depreciation hit, but you still need to budget for maintenance and repairs.

suydam · March 2014

Used cars are a good buy but you have to get them checked out. And you have to take what you find on the lot, which is why advance mailing etc doesn't work with used. Instead decide on a range of vehicles acceptable and get familiar with their used values before you go. Some cars are really popular and don't sit on lots very long. When I found a used Vibe with low mileage I knew it wouldn't be there more than a day or so. Same with my daughter's Camry. Others are more common so you have more room to deal.

alpha123 · March 2014

@nyccarguy‌ @suydam‌ ideally I'd take my time and buy privately and find one with service records, etc. but I don't have that luxury for several reasons I won't go into. In the past, before I moved to Chicago I bought my cars from a close dealer friend and he always let me know the history and straight scoop on the cars. Now I don't have that so it's going to require a little luck and more effort on my part. Either way I will have someone check it out before I buy.

Here's a question: will a dealer typically show me work orders/proof of what was done to the car after they acquired it? If the guys says he "got a lot in it" Is there any thing I can see other than his word?

suydam · March 2014

If it's CPO they will sometimes show you the checklist it has to meet. Best bet though is always an independent mechanic. Even on a CPO vehicle.

stickguy · March 2014

in terms of "what they have in it", the answer should be, who cares? It is worth what the market says it is. Not more or less just because they overpaid or got a steal.

same as when you go to trade it in, they don't offer more because you owe a lot on it!

stickguy · March 2014

@nyccarguy, to your point about skimping on maintenance, I bet that most cars at this point don't even call for trans, diff, brake fluid or coolant changes in the first 100K, if at all. So following the maintenance schedule on a Camry at least for 60K is 6 oil changes, and maybe an air filter.

qbrozen · March 2014

i agree with stick, and I've had this convo with dealers before. I've heard "we've got more in it than that" more times than I can count. I respond that its just not my problem, and I can easily go elsewhere to a dealer who did not overpay for the vehicle they are selling.

isellhondas · March 2014

Once in awhile, I would get a shopper who would demand to be shown what we paid for a used car and what we had done to it money wise. They would be so unhappy that they couldn't find out so they could make us a "fair" offer. They were scared to death that we just might be making a decent (evil) profit.

There were times we paid too much and lost money but not often.

I would tell people that the car either represented a good value to them or it didn't. If we priced a used car too high it wouldn't sell. Same with real estate and everything else.

alpha123 · March 2014

I hear you guys...the market price is what the market price is regardless of what they have in it. And just for the record, I definitely support the dealer making a profit on the sale...it just has to be a fair deal in my eyes which usually means (the old saying) neither of us is happy.

roadburner · March 2014

@qbrozen said:
i agree with stick, and I've had this convo with dealers before. I've heard "we've got more in it than that" more times than I can count. I respond that its just not my problem, and I can easily go elsewhere to a dealer who did not overpay for the vehicle they are selling.

Every time a dealer has played the "We've got more in it" sad sack refrain I find that the car is later advertised/sold for a number considerably lower than the dealer's original number...

I've also had tire dealers tell me that they cant match Tire Rack's prices because "I can't buy that tire wholesale for what Tire Rack charges retail." To which I respond, "If that's the case I'd think an astute shop owner would start buying his tires from Tire Rack."

I get extremely annoyed when a dealer pees on my leg and tells me that it's raining...

boomchek · March 2014

Some dealers will sell at a loss if it sits on the lot long enough. If it gets so bad where it's sitting for 6 months, they'll try to minimize the loss. But it does happen. However if it's a fresh unit, they're not going to take a loss on it, they'll wait it out to see if they can turn a profit.

alpha123 · April 2014

@boomchek‌ is there anyway to tell how long a dealer has had a car on the lot or when they acquired it? Maybe carfax or something like that? Or is that a secret they like to guard pretty well?

explorerx4 · April 2014

My daughter needed new tires for her 09 Escape. It had Michelin Latitude Tour tires.
They were pretty much worn out after 68k. They were rated for 65k.
The Ford dealer quoted 182 to replace them, but said they would price match.
I sent her Tire Rack's price(including shipping), that would have saved $25 on a set of 4.
She asked some guy at work if he knew of some local places, and he said send me what tire you are looking for.
He got her a quote for $145 each and the Ford dealer honored it!.
She is getting a $70 rebate on top of that, too.
She has a pretty serious boyfriend, otherwise I think that guy at work had potential.

boomchek · April 2014

@alpha123 said:
boomchek‌ is there anyway to tell how long a dealer has had a car on the lot or when they acquired it? Maybe carfax or something like that? Or is that a secret they like to guard pretty well?

Not really any way to tell how long a car has been sitting on the lot. Chances are a salesperson won't tell you either.

stickguy · April 2014

Check the layer of dust. and if the battery is totally dead, it has been a while.

robr2 · April 2014

@roadburner said:
I've also had tire dealers tell me that they cant match Tire Rack's prices because "I can't buy
that tire wholesale for what Tire Rack charges retail." To which I respond, "If that's the case
I'd think an astute shop owner would start buying his tires from Tire Rack."

Many astute tire dealers do buy from Tire Rack. They are one of the largest wholesalers in the country.

robr2 · April 2014

@alpha123 said:
boomchek‌ is there anyway to tell how long a dealer has had a car on the lot or when they
acquired it? Maybe carfax or something like that? Or is that a secret they like to guard pretty
well?

If the dealer shows a carfax report, it will say "offered for sale" and will give you an idea of days on the lot.

Michaell · April 2014

q - daughter is looking to trade in her MINI for another MINI. Wanted to get your thoughts on trade value.

Denver, CO

2010 MINI Cooper Hardtop

Automatic

Cold package

Sport Package

iPod integration

31K miles

Small scrape on rear bumper; otherwise great condition.

What say you?

qbrozen · April 2014

roundabout $10,500-$11k.

Michaell · April 2014

@qbrozen said:
roundabout $10,500-$11k.

Hmm, we were hoping more like $11.5-12K

Guess we'll see what the dealer has to say.

Thanks!

roadburner · April 2014

Man, I wish you lived closer; that would be perfect for RB Jr.- especially if it had shift paddles(he's a frustrated F! wannabe...)

Michaell · April 2014

@roadburner said:
Man, I wish you lived closer; that would be perfect for RB Jr.- especially if it had shift paddles(he's a frustrated F! wannabe...)

Follow up on the 2010 MINI - the dealer hit it at $12K trade value. Asked him what he used to get that number. Told me NADA, KBB and the local market. I found 5 2010 Cooper Hardtop automatics for sale within 50 miles of my zip code. Retail prices ranged from $14K to $16K. He saw the same and gave us what we were looking for.

BTW, when the sales manager opened the door to look inside, his first comment was that the car 'was line ready'.

Apparently it was worth the $50 to have the car detailed inside and out before going to the dealer.

Daughter is now waiting for a 2014 Countryman S ALL4 to show up at the dealer next week.

qbrozen · April 2014

congrats. like i said in the other topic, it all depends on what they want to do with it. Certainly, if line ready and they want to sell it themselves, they make out better buying yours for $12k than buying one at the auction for $12k and still having to pay fees, transport, and detailing.

Michaell · April 2014

@qbrozen said:
congrats. like i said in the other topic, it all depends on what they want to do with it. Certainly, if line ready and they want to sell it themselves, they make out better buying yours for $12k than buying one at the auction for $12k and still having to pay fees, transport, and detailing.

I'm going to keep an eye on the dealer website to see if it shows up there. I suspect it will, priced around $15K. They will probably spend a few hundred to fix the scrape on the rear bumper, and it's ready to sell.

qbrozen · April 2014

I'd bet $15995.

Michaell · April 2014

@qbrozen said:
I'd bet $15995.

Either way, that isn't much depreciation off the $22.5 MSRP from 4 years ago.

qbrozen · April 2014

no, its not. You'd think they'd have better lease deals. My wife asked me yesterday to check what the deals on the countryman are. Not all that favorable, IMHO.

Looking at your hardtop, for example, the lease offer projects $12,395 residual after just 3yrs/30k. Should be a good bit higher if 4-yr-old models are bringing that much. Also should mean folks with these leases have equity in the end.

Michaell · April 2014

@qbrozen said:
no, its not. You'd think they'd have better lease deals. My wife asked me yesterday to check what the deals on the countryman are. Not all that favorable, IMHO.

Looking at your hardtop, for example, the lease offer projects $12,395 residual after just 3yrs/30k. Should be a good bit higher if 4-yr-old models are bringing that much. Also should mean folks with these leases have equity in the end.

Wow - that didn't take long, and they weren't kidding about it being "line ready":

ralphschompmini.com/VehicleDetails/used-2010-MINI-Cooper_Hardtop--Littleton-CO/2232174443

Q - you were right. They've priced it at $15,787.

breld · April 2014

Hey Q - what do you figure the dealer has into this car:

2010 Audi TT Quattro
Prestige package (includes navigation)
18,000 miles
Black on beige interior

At an Infiniti dealer here north of Denver, so no CPO.

They're asking $29,990 - I figured trade would have been around $25k.

What are your thoughts?

Thanks!

qbrozen · April 2014

Only comp this year had 26k miles and got $24800 in PA.

breld · April 2014

Thanks!

tjinva · April 2014

What is your trade-in estimate for the current value of a 2011 Mercedes 350ML with 36K miles. The main options it has other than what comes standard is the Premium Package 01 and heated front seats.

Thanks

qbrozen · April 2014

there is a bit of a spread on these. Depending on location and dealer, they might feel safe in that $25-26k range.

tjinva · April 2014

Thanks for the prompt response.

damntree · April 2014

I have a 2008 Volvo S80 with NAV, heated seats front and rear (front seats also ventilated) and 61K miles.

Real-World Trade-In Values

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