Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

qbrozen · March 2014

haha. no thanks!

My wife's minivan could give that thing a fit in a straight line. haha. Ok, slight overstatement, but not by much! Its just not worth the price of entry (and maintenance!) only to look good, IMHO.

fintail · March 2014

Nice F355, dreamy price, I am always leery of sellers who can't spell simple words.

The BMW is a money pit, but those are awfully pretty, it is easy to see how they lure people in.

isellhondas · March 2014

Hopefully a potential buyer will do his/her homework first.

In that extensive list of work that was recently done, except for the tires, most of those items listed weren't major repair items.

I wonder what a valve job would run?

ab348 · March 2014

Dropped the boss off at the dealer today to get his vehicle out of the service department and saw this on the front row of the used car lot:

http://www.steelepremium.com/used/BMW/2007-BMW-Z4-91c8847b0a0a00650060e277a61fd5f0.htm

Don't think I've ever seen one of these around here before. This one was arresting in looks. From what I read they are not particularly nice to drive on the rough pavement one finds around here. And I doubt if I would fit comfortably. Seems to me that in a car like this you want the top to drop. But it sure catches the eye.

fintail · March 2014

I could see a valve job being a 3K+ - engine rebuild would be 5 figures no doubt.

Funny, I saw a 645/650 cabrio at the Jiffy Lube in downtown Bellevue today, young woman with huge sunglasses was taking it in. Not sure if I'd have mine serviced there, given the amount of good indy shops around here. I am sure the place is fine to have a 1999 Civrolla serviced, but a 6er, I dunno.

I like those Z coupes and the "clown shoe" models too, but I too think I wouldn't be comfortable.

nyccarguy · March 2014

@ab348‌

I dig those cars.

kyfdx · March 2014

@ab348 said:
Dropped the boss off at the dealer today to get his vehicle out of the service department and saw this on the front row of the used car lot:

http://www.steelepremium.com/used/BMW/2007-BMW-Z4-91c8847b0a0a00650060e277a61fd5f0.htm

Don't think I've ever seen one of these around here before. This one was arresting in looks. From what I read they are not particularly nice to drive on the rough pavement one finds around here. And I doubt if I would fit comfortably. Seems to me that in a car like this you want the top to drop. But it sure catches the eye.

For $2K more, you could have the M version of that same car.

corvette · March 2014

@fintail said:
Nice F355, dreamy price, I am always leery of sellers who can't spell simple words.

I'm not familiar with the market, but I think aftermarket crap on a Ferrari would be a negative.

roadburner · March 2014

An 8 Series is a great car if you can handle most of the wrenching yourself AND if you know where to get parts at a realistic price. For example, the guy in the ad got hosed on the "seat rail"-although it's more than just a seat track, as it actually contains some of the motors for the electric adjustments. Me, if I had to choose between a new FWD appliance of a sedan and an 8 Series at half the price I'd take the risk on the 8er every time. Life is too short to spend drive time in a four wheeled Purgatory...

qbrozen · April 2014

Z4 price is nuts. That's about $10k over dealer auction. $21k is more like it.

F355 is even crazier. These just aren't worth that much. Most recent to cross the block was about 4 mos ago with similar miles but black ... it got a whopping $27,500. Most expensive was about 10 mos ago, but that was proper red with only 12k miles, and hit $52k.

For still less than that $75k price, you could have yourself a 2001 360 spyder that just sold a couple of weeks ago for $60,500. That was burgundy with 23k miles. Or how bout a blue '02 with 18k for $63k?

Mr_Shiftright · April 2014

F355----not a bad car, but step up just a little for a 360 and you'll have a better daily driver. The F355 was prone to having bad exhaust manifolds, at $2500 bucks a pop for the part alone, and bad valve guides. Also, Ferrari wants you to change cam belts at 5 year intervals, and that's an engine-out service. I don't expect Oil Changers will be doing that for you.

nextcar3 · April 2014

Hello everyone
Finally created an account here. Bought my first car in 2010 (07 Jetta) traded it in for a 12 GTI (lease). Both a Beetle for wife last Nov. Already looking for a new car even though there is nothing wrong with the GTI. Its 'upside down' currently which makes justifying a new lease difficult. Not sure how long I can control myself.

jayrider · April 2014

@nextcar3 said:
Hello everyone
Finally created an account here. Bought my first car in 2010 (07 Jetta) traded it in for a 12 GTI (lease). Both a Beetle for wife last Nov. Already looking for a new car even though there is nothing wrong with the GTI. Its 'upside down' currently which makes justifying a new lease difficult. Not sure how long I can control myself.

Let your financial situation restrain you and keep posting here. There is no cost involved for joining the discussion. Leases are tough to get out of, so keep the GTI and be a buyer next time. As a buyer, it's much easier to throw money away. I should know -- story of my life.

nyccarguy · April 2014

@nextcar‌

Welcome to our support group, club, internet forum board full of certified whackos... Err, welcome here

1st off, what's "wrong" with the GTI and how much upside down are you on it? 2nd, how long until you are not upside down? 3rd, What are you going to replace the GTI with?

WARNING We like to do 2 things on this board, buy cars for ourselves and spend other board members' money:)

fintail · April 2014

If I was shopping for a used Ferrari, I'd be after a 456 or maybe a 550-575 as they have depreciated a lot and seem to be a lot of bang for the buck, for the brand anyway. 612 will get there soon, too. The 360-430 cars don't do anything for me, I find the 355 styling to be more classic. But that's just me. If I was shopping for a new one, I'd probably only want the FF.

@MrShift@Edmunds said:
F355----not a bad car, but step up just a little for a 360 and you'll have a better daily driver. The F355 was prone to having bad exhaust manifolds, at $2500 bucks a pop for the part alone, and bad valve guides. Also, Ferrari wants you to change cam belts at 5 year intervals, and that's an engine-out service. I don't expect Oil Changers will be doing that for you.

nextcar3 · April 2014

There is nothing wrong with the GTI (apart from the audio system). This makes it difficult to convince the wife that I "need" a new car. I have a negative equity of ~$2.5k (last I checked). Looking to replace it with a 3-series/X1/RX 350. Looked at Cadenza (looks like a great value for money) but not sure if I want to spend so much for a Kia. This time want a car with a lot more bells and whistles than just a driver's car.

@nyccarguy said:
nextcar‌

Welcome to our support group, club, internet forum board full of certified whackos... Err, welcome here

1st off, what's "wrong" with the GTI and how much upside down are you on it? 2nd, how long until you are not upside down? 3rd, What are you going to replace the GTI with?

WARNING We like to do 2 things on this board, buy cars for ourselves and spend other board members' money:)

breld · April 2014

From what I understand, VW Credit leases are among the harder ones to get out of, or for non-VW dealers to deal with as a trade-in. That's one of the reasons I just recently bought out my Passat lease (and financed it as a traditional purchase) - doesn't change anything as far as the equity, but it does provide more flexibility as a trade option.

Best way to mitigate the effects of trading out often? Buy used.

If you don't prefer to do that, your best bet is probably to trade for another VW. A VW dealer will be more apt to work a deal on the lease.

breld · April 2014

By the way, what are the particulars on your GTI and where do you live? How much do you need to get out of it?

jpp75 · April 2014

@breld said:
So I "bought" my car today. As I had intended to do at some point, I purchased my Passat out of its lease. As I expected and hoped, the payoff was simply the cap cost, reduced by the three payments made so far (the first one by VW Credit), taking into account the effective interest for those three months. So, didn't have to pay the rental charge for the stated term, no term or disposition fees (since I was purchasing the car). They tried to tack on the $499 dealer handling, but I kindly expressed my opinion that it wasn't stipulated in the lease contract, and they backed it off. Paid sales tax of course on the payoff amount.

Put a chunk down on the payoff and financed the remainder at 2.24%. Pretty good for essentially financing a "used" car.

So, pretty happy with the approach of leasing to take advantage of the lease incentives (huge for VW), then converting to a purchase.

I'm actually planning to do the same thing with my Q50 Hybrid. When I leased it Infiniti was offering $3,250 in lease cash that reduced the cap cost, which wasn't available if you were buying outright. We're really happy with the car, so much so that we're already 1,000 miles over where we should be after 3 months. Now that I'm satisfied there aren't any major gremlins I'm fine with buying it out and doing pretty much what you're doing (putting a chunk down and financing the rest at 1.99%).

tifighter · April 2014

@fintail said:
If I was shopping for a used Ferrari, I'd be after a 456 or maybe a 550-575 as they have depreciated a lot and seem to be a lot of bang for the buck, for the brand anyway. 612 will get there soon, too. The 360-430 cars don't do anything for me, I find the 355 styling to be more classic. But that's just me. If I was shopping for a new one, I'd probably only want the FF.

I could have written the same thing. I like the big front-engine GT cars and love the FF. I always liked the old 412 too, but they are supposed to drive like a truck. The mid-engine cars? Meh.

qbrozen · April 2014

@fintail said:
If I was shopping for a used Ferrari, I'd be after a 456 or maybe a 550-575 as they have depreciated a lot and seem to be a lot of bang for the buck, for the brand anyway. 612 will get there soon, too. The 360-430 cars don't do anything for me, I find the 355 styling to be more classic. But that's just me. If I was shopping for a new one, I'd probably only want the FF.

I'm with ya on the 456. The 4-seat ferraris always suffer the most depreciation it seems.

boomchek · April 2014

The 550 and 575's are nice but the interiors on them look ancient for some reason after sitting in a few of them. But I do love the way they look outside. Those are 2 seater by the way.

The 456, and the 612 were actually 4 seaters. 612 being replaced by the FF.

fintail · April 2014

Cool, I like the old 400 series cars too. Very classy, but apparently, not very good cars to live with. For mid engined, I'd be as happy with a 328 as a modern one.

90s era Ferraris can be pretty chintzy inside. I remember looking at a 456 and being very unimpressed with the switchgear.

@tifighter said:

nyccarguy · April 2014

Ferraris?

From a style standpoint, I've always loved the mid engined Ferraris. F355, F360, F430, & the 458 Italia is probably the most beautiful automobile I've ever laid my eyes on.

stickguy · April 2014

may actually have to shop seriously in the near future. Been poking around in the job market, and have an interview with an interesting place in the morning. Only issue is, that it is on the other side of Philly from me. So depending on how I went (direct through LemkoLand, or the all highway loop around) it is either ~25 or 45 miles each way.

since it will be a primarily in the office job (Yuck, people still do that? ), definitely need a new set of wheels to beat up. of course that seriously adds to the expenses to factor in to how big a raise is needed to make it worth doing!

Have decided that the likely way is more miles but generally open highway instead of stop/go through city neighborhoods (actually should be quicker), but 90/day adds up quick. I have thus decided that a mid-size that gets great highway MPG is the way to go. Better range over a compact (much bigger tank, almost same MPG), more comfort, all that good stuff. Something like an Altima or Accord. I suppose a Passat could work (though a Jetta would be in a gray area). Diesel would be assume range wise, but probably would not get involved in that.

most likely would stay away from a nice Euro for this use (so no new S60 ) thanks to cost and mind numbing depreciation. Not sure if I would ever move, so might have to consider this a 6 year/200K type deal. By then, one of us (the car or me) would probably be dead!

In honor of a few here, I suppose I should look at a Malibu too.

probably new, but slightly used could make sense, but I hate that shopping, and with deals out there now, probably not saving enough to make it worthwhile.

Michaell · April 2014

Breld - you planning to go to the Denver auto show? I'm pretty sure I'll be there next Saturday. Let me know.

Daughter is still on the fence about the Countryman, though she did tell us tonight that the dealer is offering a loyalty bonus. Guess she's been poking around on the dealer website. I'm trying to get her to the dealer for a test drive.

tifighter · April 2014

Speaking of range, there are some guys on the accord forums getting 700 mile tanks on all freeway drives. Works out to about 42mpg avg. More exception than the rule for sure. But it shows the capability is there, and on regular unleaded to boot. I fill around a quarter tank, so no personal experience, but 500 miles is pretty easy in mixed commuting.

nyccarguy · April 2014

@stickguy‌

Get the job 1st (obviously), but it is always nice to plan. 90 miles R/T is quite a commute. That's 450 miles per week. With the cheap financing, mega rebates, and below way below invoice pricing, I think it is smart you go new. Good choice wanting to pick something mid-sized.

Range is key, not just gas mileage. My biggest gripe about both my Pilot and my 328xi are the somewhat limited range. Straight highway, cruise set at 65, I can get 360 miles to a tank on the Pilot. If I tried hard, I could squeeze 380 - 400 miles out of a tank on my 328xi, but that's not fun.

The Altima is a great choice because it will most likely cost you the least (up front) and will get you mid 30s on the highway with fantastic range. I'm not entirely familiar with the way Nissan packages their cars, but I'm sure you could get it with backup camera, sunroof, hot seats, blind spot alert. Nissans in general have rather large gas tanks. Nissan wants to sell more of these than Camrys and they constantly have massive discounts and huge rebates.

Nobody will fault you for looking at an Accord either. Nice car, loaded with features like sunroof, hot seats, lane watch, backup camera (I'd assume you'd spring for an EX-L). Comfortable, great gas mileage, decent range, & Honda usually has cheap financing (1.9% or 0.9%). It won't be the cheapest car to purchase up front, but in 5 years with over 100K miles it will be worth more than any other car in the segment with similar miles in the same condition.

I understand the Jetta being a "grey area" for you as you don't want the same car as Junior:) I think you should definitely look at a Passat. I'd be curious about a TDI, but I'm still not convinced (no matter how much I love the WHAT WOULD IT TAKE YOU TO DRIVE A DIESEL CAR board) that it is worth the price premium over the 1.8T, worth the $.50 + (at least in NY & CT) per gallon up charge of ULSD over RUG, mandatory dealer maintenance (it requires AdBlue every 10K miles plus an expensive DSG fluid change every 30 or 40K). Now when it comes time to dump it, then the 100K Passat TDI will most likely fetch more than a 1.8. Some here have commented they don't like how the DSG in the TDI shifts and prefer the regualr old 6 speed automatic. It will get you that European ride without beating you up. Both the TDI & 1.8 get good range and great mileage.

Keep us updated

graphicguy · April 2014

@qbrozen said:
I'm with ya on the 456. The 4-seat ferraris always suffer the most depreciation it seems.

Boy would I love to own a Ferrari, of any type, before I leave this life. But, I wouldn't know the first thing about how to maintain one. And, to the best of my knowledge, there isn't a Ferrari knuckle scuffer anywhere remotely close to me that I'm aware of.

Then there's the "fear factor". Where to park it...how to park it....can I really get anywhere remotely near driving it the way they're supposed to be driven? Without doing a ditch dive?

Happy with my current TL....more so than the others I've had. Seems this one must have been made on a Wednesday, it's tight as a drum. Took it to Chicago and got 28 MPG going 80 a good portion of the way. This one feels "smoother", but can't put my finger on why. It handles a bit sharper, but I chalk that up to the 19" wheels/tires. It did a great job this past winter, which certainly was one of the worst (if not THE worst) in recent memory.

Filled up at Costco last night....22 MPG piddling around town with some fun country back roads thrown into the mix.

It might not lead the pack in any one category, but as a whole, it does just about everything well.

nyccarguy · April 2014

@graphicguy‌

I'm a fan of the TL SH-AWD as you know. How long do you plan on holding on to this one? I know, loaded question in this forum.

corvette · April 2014

By my count, nobody has bought anything in almost a month... You guys and gals need to get on it!

It's not automotive related, but I adopted a ~3 year old Beagle mix from the animal shelter on Saturday. The first night was a little trying, but she's as sweet as can be and an excellent companion. All the time I spend taking her out, refilling her food/water, etc. is exhausting, but I still love her!

graphicguy · April 2014

@nyccarguy said:
graphicguy‌

I'm a fan of the TL SH-AWD as you know. How long do you plan on holding on to this one? I know, loaded question in this forum.

NYC...you're right....loaded question. I don't know why I appreciate this TL more than the others I've had. I purchased it because I needed something quick. It was the safe route as it hit all of my "check boxes".

That said, if the M235i had been already released, I may have had a different car in the garage. My biggest complaint with my E92 was the seats. The M235i seats are the same. Maybe I should ignore the seats and appreciate those cars for their other virtues. But 'ya know....seats are kind of important when you're in your car so much.

Then again, every time I get into the TL, the sport seats fit just right, the steering wheel feels just right. It is fun both on the highway, as well as in more sporting roads. As fast as my previous S4 was, I can't really say that I feel the power of the TL is lacking in any way.

I'm trying to think of something I'd be willing to pay more money for, and may be happier with. I dunno....maybe Mike's CLS? Then again, I really don't want to spend that kind of money. An A6? That's more like it, but I'm still feeling the "sting" a little bit on my whole S4 experience.

I really like the pics of the new TLX. But, they're just pics. On paper, it sounds like a really fine car.....ON PAPER.

Other priorities right now, however. We're selling my house, my fiance is selling hers. We have to find something we both like, and do it relatively quickly so we don't get into the whole capital gains debacle.

We both have relatively new cars. So, take care of all that other stuff first. My promise is to not look at anything for a couple more years. Then again, I'm sure I'll get an invite to my dealer's grand unveiling of the new TLX when it hits.

I still say if I was currently in the market right this minute, getting a loaded up RLX in the low to mid $40s, which is what they're selling for is a screaming luxury bargain.

au1994 · April 2014

@ GG, regarding the seats in a BMW...I suspect you would be happy with the seats in the M235i as BMW's sport seats are std equip as I understand. These are night and day different from each other. Had the std seats in my E92 and Sports in my F30 and E46 for that matter.

@ Corvette...congrats on the pup. Nothing like the unconditional love you get from a dog! (I don't have kids btw )

breld · April 2014

Corvette - cute puppy! We've had our basset for a little over a year now (one of three dogs we have), and man those first few months were indeed trying, but it does pass.

breld · April 2014

@stickguy said:
Have decided that the likely way is more miles but generally open highway instead of stop/go through city neighborhoods (actually should be quicker), but 90/day adds up quick. I have thus decided that a mid-size that gets great highway MPG is the way to go. Better range over a compact (much bigger tank, almost same MPG), more comfort, all that good stuff. Something like an Altima or Accord. I suppose a Passat could work (though a Jetta would be in a gray area). Diesel would be assume range wise, but probably would not get involved in that.

most likely would stay away from a nice Euro for this use (so no new S60 ) thanks to cost and mind numbing depreciation. Not sure if I would ever move, so might have to consider this a 6 year/200K type deal. By then, one of us (the car or me) would probably be dead!

You and I are pretty much in the same boat - at a minimum, I have a 65 mile roundtrip to and from work every day, but many days it's up to 100 or so with picking up kids, sports, etc. I'll vouch for the value of the comfortable large sedan for this purpose. The Passat 1.8t is probably averaging somewhere in the 500's on a tank (about 33 mpg on average, but up to 40 on normal highway driving).

Honestly, if I had to do it over again, I'd go with the Accord. I like the tech features Honda offers over VW (at least at this point), it offers about the same amount of room, and it drives a bit sportier than the Passat, while sacrificing little in the way of comfort.

And I believe the Honda will be a bit more immune to the higher mileage when it comes to resale. I will have had the Passat three months this week, and I passed 5,000 miles yesterday.

And don't forget about the Mazda6, particularly since you like the Mazdas. A bit better gas mileage than the others, sporty dynamics and frankly, you don't see them coming and going as much as the Accord and Passat.

Good luck with the interview!

stickguy · April 2014

Interview went well. Want me to come over now fir an in person so must be serious! At least I can preview the commute.

My short list I think is Altima, accord and Mazda 6. Pretty sure not happy with a sonata, and I just can't bring myself yo own a Camry but probably should try one out.

breld · April 2014

@Michaell@Edmunds said:
Breld - you planning to go to the Denver auto show? I'm pretty sure I'll be there next Saturday. Let me know.

Daughter is still on the fence about the Countryman, though she did tell us tonight that the dealer is offering a loyalty bonus. Guess she's been poking around on the dealer website. I'm trying to get her to the dealer for a test drive.

Oh yeah, we are definitely planning on the Denver auto show. I'm just not sure what day we're going. If I can fit it in on a weekday evening, I prefer that since it's less busy, but it might end up being Saturday, in which case we'd go first thing in the morning. I'll let you know.

There do seem to be good deals on the Countryman - Mini's website is advertising some seemingly aggressive lease deals. $289/month with zero down on an S All4 model.

Michaell · April 2014

@breld said:
Oh yeah, we are definitely planning on the Denver auto show. I'm just not sure what day we're going. If I can fit it in on a weekday evening, I prefer that since it's less busy, but it might end up being Saturday, in which case we'd go first thing in the morning. I'll let you know.

>

There do seem to be good deals on the Countryman - Mini's website is advertising some seemingly aggressive lease deals. $289/month with zero down on an S All4 model.

I'm probably going early on Saturday as well .. I can get in and out before it gets really crazy. Keep me posted.

Daughter won't do a lease, and I'm sure the advertised model is pretty sparsely equipped. She's looking for the Harmon/Kardon stereo package and Nav, plus maybe the sunroof. When she built one on the website, she was around $33-34K. The ones on the lot with nav also have leather and are running over $35K.

js06gv · April 2014

@stickguy said:
Interview went well. Want me to come over now fir an in person so must be serious! At least I can preview the commute.

My short list I think is Altima, accord and Mazda 6. Pretty sure not happy with a sonata, and I just can't bring myself yo own a Camry but probably should try one out.

Check out the Optima. Different enough from a Sonata looks-wise, and screaming deals to be had on a car with a lot of features compared to the competition. Love ours.

stickguy · April 2014

I suppose would not hurt to look at the Optima too. Assuming it is the same tank size (18.5) as the Sonata, should have good range. I would get the base 4 in any case.

breld · April 2014

@Michaell@Edmunds said:
Daughter won't do a lease, and I'm sure the advertised model is pretty sparsely equipped. She's looking for the Harmon/Kardon stereo package and Nav, plus maybe the sunroof. When she built one on the website, she was around $33-34K. The ones on the lot with nav also have leather and are running over $35K.

If she doesn't want to lease (understandable), is she willing to go used? Seems like they are starting to show up on the used lots more and more. I like this one personally, but she may want an auto trannie:

S All4

graphicguy · April 2014

@au1994 said:
@ GG, regarding the seats in a BMW...I suspect you would be happy with the seats in the M235i as BMW's sport seats are std equip as I understand. These are night and day different from each other. Had the std seats in my E92 and Sports in my F30 and E46 for that matter.

@ Corvette...congrats on the pup. Nothing like the unconditional love you get from a dog! (I don't have kids btw )

Thanks for the heads up on the M235i seats. Worth checking out.

Corvette....same here on the puppy. Have had 2 in my lifetime. Miss both dearly.

laurasdada · April 2014

My (used) Ferrari? 308/328gtsi QV. First, of course I'd have to grow out the moustache, grab a couple of Hawaiin shirts and maybe a Tigers cap... New? 458 Italia convertible. But, since I can't claim the proceeds of my own life insurance, the XF will have to do for now...

js06gv · April 2014

@stickguy said:
I suppose would not hurt to look at the Optima too. Assuming it is the same tank size (18.5) as the Sonata, should have good range. I would get the base 4 in any case.

Yes, 18.5 gallon tank. The base 4 drove fine as well, and in fact I'm driving a Sonata 2.4 rental this week in Cleveland. HP is near best in class at almost 200 (I think 192 but don't quote me).

stickguy · April 2014

the Sonata I drove last week seemed to have plenty of pickup. So not worried abotu a few ponies one way or the other.

laurasdada · April 2014

Stick, my father in LA has a Mazda 6, he loves it. I enjoyed driving it, a bit of wind/road noise IIRC. But, excellent mpg, stylish, fun and practical. The Accord seems a winner, too. I don't think I could bring myself to drive a Camry. Not that there's anything wrong with that...car.

stickguy · April 2014

Thanks. I will probably like the 6. I hate a wallowy car, and seem to have high tolerance for road/wind noise. I always found my 2005 Accord (and Odyssey) to be plenty quiet on the road, other than some tire noise on certain pavement. Others though make it sound like driving one was akin to being in a sherman tank.

Then again, I often will have the moonroof open, and the radio will be juicing, so I doubt the road noise is likely to permeate much.

MPG, visibility, and seat comfort is going to be much more important factors to consider.

xwesx · April 2014

I dunno, stick, I think you could get through a fairly decent bit of time just "using up" the TL a little more. But, that's just me.

stickguy · April 2014

well, just ticked over 174K, so not sure how much more "using up" there will be! Though if this job happens and I keep the TL as a spare, I will likely take it once a week or so just to give it some exercise.

no clue how long I could go with that before something went. But I don't intend to find out! I will say that it is a great highway cruiser.

Michaell · April 2014

@breld said:
If she doesn't want to lease (understandable), is she willing to go used? Seems like they are starting to show up on the used lots more and more. I like this one personally, but she may want an auto trannie

Replace "want" with "need". Tried teaching her to drive stick when we had our '03 Focus. She just never got the hang of it.

And, like her mom, she's not a big fan of used. I think she will end up with a fairly loaded Countryman S ALL4 that ticks all of the 'gadget' boxes and have to settle on color.

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