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Comments
@explorerx4
I too bundle my homeowner's & car insurance with Liberty Mutual. It saved me a significant amount of money. Did you get hit with "post-Sandy" premiums? Both my auto & homeowner's insurance went up because "Liberty Mutual had to pay out a lot of claims." Even with the increase, the LM is still cheaper
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
The only thing L/M told me that I thought was silly was that the Optima 2.4 liter is considered a "high performance engine". When I asked for an explanation, she said that any engine over 200 HP in this class is labeled as such. L/M did eventually cut the $10 surcharge from my premium, but only for the first 6 months to earn my business.
The 2.4L in the 2014 Optima is rated on the KIA website at 192hp. I thought the original hp rating was 198 and then it was revised. But I do recall that one version of either the Sonata or Optima, maybe the SE, was rated at a couple of extra HP or 200. I would check the fine print with your insurer. If their own rule is "over 200hp", then 200hp shouldn't trigger the surcharge. Too many insurance companies out there to be playing those kind of games IMO.
It's time for something new and nothing is speaking to me....
I'm driving a 2011 Optima SX. I've enjoyed the car but long story short it's time for something else. No rush, but I'm hoping something really gets me excited the way the new Optima did when I got it.
Anyway. Cars I'm considering: Accord V6, Accord Coupe, Audi A3/A4 possibly S3, MB C Class... even looked at the small crossover SUVs like the new Pathfinder, or a Traverse. Right now I'm really hoping the new Acura TLX fits the bill.
Most would not consider Pathfinder or Traverse to be "small". You're all over the board. I've been there. I finally settled on a roomy midsize sedan as the best fit for my needs, budget, etc., and had a lot of fun checking out the competition. TLX does look great to my eye, and presumably Accord-based, it should offer a very good balance of comfort and performance.
Gah meant Cherokee not Pathfinder. And Equinox, not Traverse. Sorry long day I guess... hah.
But yes I'm all over the place. I'd like something with some pop. My Optima has 274 HP and it moves well. But ultimately I want something maybe a bit quieter on the road, easier on the bumps, same or more power.... that looks cool
The answer: Buick Regal GS.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
If you are considering Audi, they are some of the most satisfying drivers cars on earth. I read all the magazines, and the Audi's are winning 95% of the comparos. Usually against BMW. It used to be the other way around. I would look at the A3,A4,A5, and also the Q5 if you decide a CUV is the answer.
If you decide to stay at $35,000, BMW makes a less well known 328X1. It is a small CUV, but has the 240 HP turbo 4, and will fit all your stuff too. The new Mercedes CLA class is a nice little car too, also around $35,000.
On the other end of the spectrum, the Accord and the Mazda 6 are great driving cars, but you are used to a 274 hp turbo 4, so the Mazda will not be quick in comparison. Accord and Passat have great V6 engines. Tough choices. Thanks for posting!
The original 2011 Sonata with single exhaust had 198hp. Adding dual exhaust added 2hp for a total of 200.
All Kia Optima models have dual exhaust, and the rating was definitely 200 hp, and 186 lb Ft.
http://www.edmunds.com/kia/optima/2012/?style=101415931&ps=used&sub=sedan#specs-pod-anchor
That is until this model year.
http://vehicles.automobilemag.com/am/99/2014/kia/optima/ex_sedan/670/specifications.html
Kia very quietly reduced the HP rating on the 2014 2.4 liter to 192, and the torque at 181. ALSO, the MPG is now 23/34, but on my sticker was 24/35.
I believe I have found the answer! Just 5 seconds ago I re-read the specs on the 2012 and found this under "Powertrains and Performance" from the Edmunds 2012 review URL above:
"In California-emissions states, the Optima has a Super Ultra Low Emissions rating (versus Ultra-Low elsewhere) resulting in a lower power output of 192 hp and 181 lb-ft."
So either they post the SULEV specs from California Optima's, or Kia just builds all of them to SULEV specs starting in 2014.
The Buick was my runner up in 2011. Definitely warrants a test drive yes. Good point.
All definitely on my list, including the Q5. I personally prefer Audi over the BMW's. I love the Audi interiors and while I'm sure BMW's are great drivers cars, for the driving I do it really wouldn't be on display. I have a 12 mile round trip commute on back roads. All my zooming is on the highway on weekends, accelerating in a straight line after going through an EZPass lane. BMW interiors are kinda blah to my eye, too.
Speaking of interiors, I love the Lexus IS350 interior. Too bad the exterior kinda kills it for me. It's the reverse for the Cadillac ATS, great exterior, not feeling the inside. Maybe I'm too picky
The 2015 Mercedes C-Class looks like it might be a real winner, but now we're getting north of 50k which is hard to justify.
So all in all, I am going to wait to see how the Acura TLX shakes out. Test drive a Regal. An A3. And sit in a fully loaded Accord V6. See what I think.
OH, and for yet another curve ball... anyone else love the new Mustang? Wow. Nice inside and out. I can fit my kids in the back seats... right?
You mean the new-new Mustang 2015? 4 cylinders but 305 HP !
@MrShift@Edmunds Yup the new new, 2015. That EcoBoost engine in very intriguing! 305HP and 300 ft/lb torque! And it looks amazing inside and out... plus independent rear suspension which is a plus in my book.
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2891/12801567433_a00da39574_o.jpg
It's amazing how much different (and better) the 2015 mustang looks even though the changes are fairly subtle if you compare them side by side.
Well, I would look a lot different, and worse, if you moved one of my eyes down 1/2 inch. Subtle, but meaningful!
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The way ecoboost has been working for Ford lately I doubt that turbo 4 will be faster than the V-6 and will probably use just about as much gas in the real world.
March midsize sales....
Camry 41,953
Altima 35,921
Accord 33,962
Fusion 32,963
Sonata 19,248
Malibu 18,866
Optima 16,310
Passat 11,050
Avenger 8,756
200 7,531
Mazda6 5,730
Legacy 3,234
Nissan and Toyota have upped the incentives. In my city of Louisville, KY, Camrys and Altimas can be had for $4-5K off of msrp. Same with the Sonata. Compare that to maybe $2-3k off msrp for the Accord. Honda is up against the tough reality that the competition is willing to "give away" midsize cars.....
The warmer weather really is helping sales too. If you take the c. 42,000 Camrys sold last month and multiply by 12, that's annual sales rate of slightly more than 500,000 cars, which is about how many Toyota can build in a year. Even Honda was selling at an annual rate of 407,000, which is about their capacity too. But for months during the winter everyone sold below capacity, and so a big backlog has been built up....
Glad to see TMV for the Accord has not gone down since the incentives have added up in the market generally. About $150 below invoice, which is where I bought mine last summer. One reason I went with the "obvious" choice, although it was less adventurous/beautiful than the Mazda6, and less of a screaming bargain than an Optima, it's proven a safe bet in terms of holding its value. (Although I thought historically Hondas sold pretty much at or near sticker. But at least new buyers aren't getting any better a deal than I did... And prices may yet return closer to MSRP as the traffic picks up.)
The Accord is fairly bland. It's nice, but it's also a lot like a Toyota car these days in that it's OK but there's nothing really special about it, either. Appliance on wheels, basically.
Between the European sedans, (C, A4, 3), they are all nearly identical other than a (small) bias towards luxury or performance. The C class is a bit softer and more luxurious, the 3 series is more sporty and agile, and the A4 is right in the middle. The only downside with the A4 (my dad has one now) is that it is extremely understated like Lexus.
That said, all three drive or offer something better than the domestics or Japanese cars.
The Acura, Infiniti, and Lexus all were nice. Very nice. But they also were like jellybean clones of each other. You honestly can't tell what it is from a block away. I'd honestly rather just buy a (non hybrid) Fusion and save $20K if it's all going to be the same appliance.
The SUVs, my dad and I looked at them all and nothing made our hearts move even a millimeter. They've devolved into basically custom vans that are raised a few inches. Gone are the days where you could see the 4x4 truck in their DNA.
But you're right. So many choices and so little that makes our hearts move.
I love my Accord, and it drives nothing like the Camry which I also tested. To each his/her own.
'17 Chevy Volt Premiere
All of the mid-sized family sedans are "appliances". But some are Hotpoint appliances, in white, and some are top-shelf Panasonic or LG or Bosch or Whirlpool appliances.
On the Mustang (and Camaro), I think the interiors are the weakest link. Going retro is neat and all, but I want an Audi interior. Then I would be interested. I know that the Ford dash looks better, has better materials for 2015, and also has MFT for the fist time. I couldn't see it at the auto show though (it was on a pedestal and roped off).
BTW, I just saw the new Chrysler 200 interior in the C/D May, 2014 issue. Great job! Very modern and Audi-like.
Less importantly....
Splurged on real Seibon carbon fiber parts. I have never actually touched a real piece until now. Weighs nothing, nice gloss finish and the pattern lines up well. Interesting. The unfinished side shows where all the air was sucked out, and how all the layers (5) squished together in the mold. I have seen and touched the fake ones. No comparison.
A reporter is looking to talk with shoppers who are in the market now or just who just recently bought a mid-size sedan like Accord, Sonata, Camry, Fusion etc. If you can assist, please reach out to pr@edmunds.com with your contact info by 4/8/14.
Having owned both Honda and Toyota, I think they are different driving/riding too. I liken a Honda more toward a Ford and a Toyota more toward a GM. Nothing wrong with either, just a little difference. Having said that, where Toyota seems to get in trouble in this arena is when they try to make their vehicle sportier by tightening the suspension. It usually just turns out to be the worst of both in those situations - stiff, but not really a good driver. Most Toyota's on an Interstate are similar to a Buick; smooth and pretty quiet. Honda's handle a little better, but are noisier.
I am also an Optima owner, and I can tell you that it would be very difficult for me to find another car too. There is so much to like on the car, very nice materials inside, sleek look outside, etc. The problem is that it drives like, well...a Hyundai.
Why don't you check out the Lexus IS-350? If you want your heart to speak to you, make sure it's the 350 F-Sport.
If my kids were all out of the nest, and I had the money to spend on any car up to $60k, I would drive home the A6. quick, reliable, classy, and yes...understated.
Any suggestions on which would be best for a 20 year old's first car?
Something slow, boring and built like a tank. Preferably used. My daughter got a 5 YO Volvo S40 that met these criteria.
I like a mid sized car for new drivers. Some protection but not a barge. A Camry would certainly do the job. Get something with good all around visibility too.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
A CPO Nissan Altima S You can get a 2013 for under $17k, it's very good looking, has a few features, is very good on gas and has a warranty up to 100k.
I was just checking these out for a friend...they even have a coupe for the same deal.
You didn't have specifics so this is assuming many things, one of which is a low price...If it isn't, I'd say a Cayman S...
I echo stickguy. Old, boring, slow and safe.older Camry or Altima is perfect. Buick is fine too.
'17 Chevy Volt Premiere
I really like the interior of that car. I may have to take it for a spin. Exterior.... maybe in all black I'll like it
I don't know how anyone can drive an IS with AWD (as they all are, at least up north!). That massive hump in the floor to clear the AWD gear makes me contort my leg to reach the gas pedal. Very uncomfortable. And just too damned cramped overall.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
It won't surprise anyone to hear I recommend the Honda Accord. It costs a little more than Camry, Altima, etc., but I really do think Honda has higher quality engineering.
It does, in any case, top all other midsize cars at this point on the IIHS small offset crash test.
I also has hands down the best visibility of any midsize car. If I were buying a car for one of my kids that would be a big consideration right there....
For a beginning driver, you want something that's smaller, safe, slow (but not unreasonably so), and decently tough and reliable. The problem is that that means something like an old Buick which nobody wants, let alone a kid. The optimal car used to be a Volvo 240 years ago as it had good reliability, good crash scores, was slow, and had good driving characteristics and visibility.
But they are now all 20+ years old.
The problem with an Accord or Camry and most never cars is that they are too large and powerful. And they tend to have tons of things to distract a brand new driver like GPS and so on.
Now, I'm in the same boat myself. My son will be driving in about a year and I have a tough time coming up with answers. Even my basic Mustang has a touchy clutch, 305HP, and takes about 80% of your concentration to not wrap around a tree when it's raining. It's a beautiful car to drive, but it's a fantastic second or third car. Not a first one. No way my son can handle this thing starting out. And that's the big problem with cars now. They are all almost beyond the average new driver's ability to deal with and control. And getting worse as the auto makers try to out-do each other with more and more HP and speed.
So far, I have two that might work, but they're not exactly what I want, either.
1: A late 90s (98 or 99) BMW 318ti.(E36) Inexpensive, reliable enough, and with not much HP, it's a fun car (especially with manual) that won't get you into big trouble without a lot of warning and time to hopefully fix things. 140HP, 0-60 in about 9 seconds, and a 130mph top speed is exactly in the sweet spot for a new driver. The driving position and dynamics also are awesome so it takes a lot less work to drive than a typical sedan. Good looks, too, especially if it's a darker color.
2: A early 2000s (2001-2004) Toyota Tacoma with a 4 cylinder engine and 4WD. This is a slow tank and is basically indestructible since the 4WD versions weigh a bit over 500lbs lbs more than the 2WD delivery vehicle models. 4WD and the ability to haul loads even in bad weather or snow is a big plus. 140HP and a 0-60 time of about 9 seconds is also right where a new driver needs to be at, IMO.
A used, 4-5 year old Japanese 4cyl sedan would make a very good first car. Relatively up to date safety systems, the same with crash worthiness, good repair records, low maintenence and not flashy enough to attract too much attention from all interested parties which includes the opposite sex and law enforcement officials.
Could not agree more.
'17 Chevy Volt Premiere
I like the Altima S suggestion. That's really an easy car to drive with good visibility, rational controls, very good MPG, and it's fairly decent looking, too. I'm gonna put my two cents in and nix any out-of-warranty German car.
well, not specified was new or used. For used, a 2 gen back accord (2003-2007) is an excellent choice. Reliable, easy to drive, manageable size, safe without all the distracting new tech. And if you want a stick, you can get one that is about the easiest manual ever to learn on.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I agree too. The Corolla and Civic are good reliable starter cars. For both sexes. Young men will find all kinds of "MODZ" for either car and they are well built, safe, and relatively slow.
Also, back in my day, I was happy with whatever car my parents bestowed on me. What I wanted was freedom.... (and girls).
My comment was more about how I literally have virtually nothing that I can think of that's not an absolute econobox/deathtrap or that has way too much power.
I could get him a couple of year old Accord, but that means going back to almost ten years ago to find anything that fits the criteria for a new driver. Almost all entry-level cars that are of that age are falling apart. A Civic may be nice, but a ten year old Civic is... old. The field narrows considerably when you factor in manual transmission, which I believe is an absolute must to still teach to new drivers. Unless they only plan on staying in the U.S. for the rest of their lives in this rapidly shrinking world we live in.
If we, say, keep the search criteria to 2009 and never, the list is... ... Mostly small SUVs and a couple of Pickups and a couple of coupes. Almost nothing that's a sedan and that's also not a sub-compact or compact car. I'd give BMW and Mercedes a pass on size due to their safety record, but certainly nothing domestic that's small.
Case in point - my Mustang. It's a base model with a V6. If you disable the speed limiter, it will outperform a Porsche 928 in every single measure. Now, true, a 928 was designed in the late 70s. But at the time, it was the best supercar in the world. Fast forward to 2014. A $20K car has that level of performance. It's never been a better time to be a driver. Except that humans haven't evolved into better new drivers in such a short period of time. When you can get 200+HP in the most basic sedans these days, it worries me. I'd rather see 120HP and 50mpg, to be honest, instead of 200HP and 30mpg. It really makes me miss cars like the Volvo 240 that I had. Fun, solid, easy to drive, and no way was I going to get in trouble.
We grew up with cars that could go 0-60 in about 15 seconds. Now any idiot can stomp on the pedal and go 0-60 in 6 seconds. And we consider those cars to be "slow", even.
BTW, my favorite car I have owned? A Volvo 164E. My second? My 67 Mercedes S Class. The Mustang is great because it's $20K and a fantastic commuter-box alternative. Not because it's my favorite car of all time.
plekto: We all like to argue here, so I hope you take nothing personally. I know you like the 3.7 Mustang, and I bet your son likes it even more that you do... especially when he imagines himself driving it as his first car. I have 3 daughters, of which one is 13, so I will be facing this choice too.
I really think it is a great idea to teach him stick shift, but man I would worry about one of my girls driving stick in this area. Congested, aggressive, and dangerous.
With that said, I drove all kinds of jalopies when I was a young driver, but because I had a father who brought me up to respect the law, be careful, and practice defensive driving, I survived.
So, whether you get him an 05 Accord, or an 07 Corolla; what matters most is that he had a parent that sought out advice and did his due diligence to make sure his son will be as safe as possible in whatever reasonable car is selected.
Well, that's not really true, is it... you'd rather see the higher-horsepower, lower-MPG vehicle. A vehicle like your Mustang. You've voted with your wallet regarding what kind of car you'd rather see. That 120 HP, 50 MPG vehicle exists, for about the same price you paid for your Mustang. It's called a gently-used Prius. Or with a little more HP, a gently-used Jetta or Golf TDI.
But you chose the Mustang, and that's your prerogative, it's your car. But some of us really would rather see a low-HP, high-MPG car. Some of us own cars like that. And maybe also a 200 HP, 30 MPG (35+ highway) car for the wife.
I think a 4-5 yr old Accord, Mazda6, Camry, Altima or Sonata with a 4 cyl and a stick would fit the bill nicely. The OP seems to want a sedan and may have very solid reasons for it. Why do some, instead of asking or assuming they put some thought into it, try to "sell" them on anything but. Is it just because that is their personal preference? A 4cyl sedan certainly isn't going to go 0-60 in 6 seconds.....more like 8 or 8.5 secs. True, that is plenty quick enough for a teenager but certainly not v-6 fast. There are plenty of those type sedans around with a stick if one really is dead set on getting one.
Personally, I think a compact sedan would be even more ideal as long as it is fairly recent vintage to allow for all the more recent safety enhancements. Don't see a huge difference between compact and midsize in that respect. However, the OP did query the "midsized sedans" forum.
OP never mentioned a manual trans though IIRC. that certainly limits your options. But, there is this, even though it might turn them off of driving forever.
http://www.jsautohaus.com/used/Toyota/2011-Toyota-Camry-4bb031b040463812302a28b3c192189f.htm
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Having lived through 2 teenaged drivers, I've learned that every vehicle can be driven fast enough to get into trouble. Stepson spent most of his permit time behind the wheel of an '03 Explorer, so he was quite used to the high center of gravity of an SUV. He also attended drivers training. We bought him a gently used GEO Tracker as his first car. 90 HP, what could go wrong?
A lot, as it turns out. Rolled the Tracker not 5 weeks after purchase, sent his sister to the hospital via helicopter. Everybody was OK, but kids think they're immortal at that age. Doesn't matter what they're driving.
Sedans are the cheapest to insure, and the safety features now available may mitigate some of the inevitable stupidity behind the wheel (multiple airbags, ABS, TCS, etc.).
Let's hope the OP has a kid whose head is screwed on straight - that, more that the car they are driving, will determine if they make it out of their teens.
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4
Just don't get one of those turbo 4 cylinder Sonatas (or Optimas)! Those'll do pretty close to 6 seconds 0-60.
I agree a used mid-sizer can be a nice vehicle for a 20-something person. If budget is tight, the 2003-7 Accord, 2003-8 Mazda6, 2002-6 Altima, 2006-10 Sonata, 2006.5-10 Optima, 2006-12 Fulan, even the 2002-6 Camry. And if you have more money, you can get the next generation up. Last summer, I bought a 2005 Mazda6i Sport hatch for $4900 that my 18-year-old daughter drives to school now, and she loves it. (The problem is, I love it too but I don't get to drive it much!)
there is a reason I bought a NA Volvo S40 a couple years ago when my daughter got her permit, and she is still driving it. And it isn't because it is fast! She complains on occasion about it being slow, but I don't care, since I don't drive it. Plus she hasn't figured out if she floors it, it accelerates plenty quick. And I don't see any real reason to tell her.
My son (the older one) started out with a 4 cyl AT Contour. now that car was a dog. He hated it, I hated it. But again, slow and a nice manageable size to start with. He was better prepared when he got a fast car (the TL) about 8 months later, and that was a fluke because it fell into our laps. Thankfully he never had an accident with it, or got a ticket that counted. It is a pretty quick car, but not hyper fast around town. It just always wants to settle at 80 on the highway.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Well, the quote function seems to be broken. But about the choice in cars, I think the latest crop of 30mpg (highway) 300 HP cars are great. For a second or third vehicle. Yes, I did vote with my pocketbook, but I still think that 300hp is completely overkill, even though the car is fun. I bought it mostly because they don't make most midsize, sporty, or entry level luxury cars in the 20-30K range with manual any more. Your mileage will of course vary a lot.
I keep thinking about it and... Maybe a 4 cylinder Accord with manual? But it's such a bland car in the basic trim that you have to get to get manual. Someone else did mention a Volvo S40, but they're kind of expensive to fix. Maybe a Subaru Impreza wagon?
Well, I'm still looking. Heh. I have about 1 year to do something about this.
It's not just that teenagers think they are immortal, although they do. They are inexperienced. Big, old and slow was my motto. My son totaled his first car within 3 weeks of getting his license. Thank God he and everyone else was fine and also thank God it wasn't an expensive new car. He learned from that mistake and has a perfect driving record since. I leaned towards older Buicks and Camrys in those days. One son inherited my fathers Accord and that was good too. Bland is good when it comes to teenagers! Fortunately now most cars from 2000 up are going to have the main safety features like air bags and ABS.
'17 Chevy Volt Premiere