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If You Had the Power, What Would You Make Automakers Bring Back?

Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
edited May 2014 in General

Are there features no longer offered that you'd like to see return on modern cars? Are there vehicles you'd like to see back in production? Do you see an actual market for your preferences?

Don't worry about things like emissions or safety regulations--remember, you are all-powerful. Just presume that engineers are smart enough to figure out how to make your 'commands' become reality.

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Comments

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,054

    Choice of sixteen or eighteen exterior colors, and five or six interior colors. Also, bring back coupes to every model line.

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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092

    I agree with color choices - along with hardtops, thin pillars and low beltlines, maybe curved/wraparound glass. It'd be cool to see some brand names return, but probably no spot for them in the market, as they've simply been replaced - for example, I think MB might have filled the role of Packard.

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454

    Wing windows, fresh air vents from the floorboard area, and real external rain gutters. Accessible tie down hooks on the front and rear bumpers.

    Oh, and the ability to carry a full size spare in the "trunk".

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,054

    How about the availability of buying single options, instead of stupid groups where to get one thing you want you end up getting two you don't? All the things I miss are a direct result of imports becoming successful here.

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

    Oh yeah, wing windows! I think power wing windows would integrate into modern designs quite well.

    How about those foot operated fender vents like Studebaker used to have?--nice cool air sucked into the driver's kickpad area.

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,054

    Two-seat Thunderbirds had those vents too. I've never experienced them though.

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  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454

    Never saw the foot operated ones, just the pull out knobs low (or under) the dash.

    The '14 Forester has "stationary" wing windows. Nice for visibility but it'd be terrific if they opened.

    One thing I don't miss are those foot operated high beam switches, although I hear that a few folks miss them.

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454

    Heh, another one - how about a normal sized pickup (i.e. small) with the bed low enough to the ground that you don't need built in steps or a step-stool to actually use the bed?

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092

    Wing windows would be cool yeah.

    Single options are available to an extent on some German cars anyway - as in the home market, ala carte options are normal.

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652

    Both of my Darts had little vent boxes in the footwell area. You had to reach down and turn a little lever to open them. Unfortunately, as the cars aged, and the drains to the cowl vents clogged up, they would become a source of water leaks.

    Those vent windows in the doors tend to leak water, and get drafty and noisy as they age, too.

    I guess though, since they tend to build things better these days, those features would be less problematic than back in the day. I really did like the fresh air vents in the Darts, though. Even though more "sophisticated" cars just vented the fresh air through the HVAC ducts, it always felt fresher and cooler coming straight in through those fresh air vents.

    I remember my Granddad's '53 DeSoto had a flap in the cowl, just under the windshield, that would rise up when you pulled a knob (or lever, or something...it's been almost 28 years since we had that car). So I imagine that would actually ram the fresh air through pretty well at cruising speed.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

    Those cowl vents were great--you could cool an overheated interior (when the car sat in the sun) in seconds with that thing.

  • omarmanomarman Member Posts: 2,702

    Just a few things off hand...

    1) Uplander took my number one wish for more exterior/interor color interior options. I'd also add that better interior textures - just the touch or feel aside from color - could be better too.

    2) Tone down the current hammered stance of all new cars. Low rooflines with gun-port windows are making new cars hard to look at and hard to see out of.

    3) It would be nice to see more cars that look like cars again instead of SUV/Crossover variants. I think the popularity of the retro look Mustang years ago was driven by more than Mustang-specific nostalgia. It looked like, you know, a car.

    A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,054

    Whether you thought the cars back then stunk or not, the feeling of a lot of choice was exhilarating, IMHO. The best example I can think of is full-size Pontiacs from say, 1967. Two wheelbases; models were Catalina, Catalina with Ventura option, 2+2, Executive, Bonneville, Bonneville Brougham, Grand Prix, and the option list was endless. What fun. For instance, one could buy a full-size '67 Pontiac convertible as a Catalina, Ventura, 2+2, Bonneville, Bonneville Brougham, and Grand Prix.

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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,054
    edited May 2014

    Well, I'm sketchy on the Bonneville Brougham convertible in '67, since that's the year there was also a Grand Prix convertible, but I know there were Brougham convertibles in other '60's model years. You get the point. It was fun to pick and choose back then, until probably the mid'80's in my experience.

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  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652

    I tried to google "1967 Bonneville Brougham Convertible" but it didn't pull up any pics of one. However, it did pull up a '66. Looking at the '67 brochure, I'm inclined to think the Brougham was limited to the hardtop coupe and sedan that year. It shows a pic of both, but then the next page shows a Grand Prix convertible.

    As for picking and choosing options, my '67 Catalina convertible, which was the bottom rung, still had air conditioning and a tilt steering wheel. A tilt wheel was probably rare in most cars below a Cadillac or equivalent, while a/c was still pretty rare in convertibles. In those days, people often bought a convertible because it was cheaper than a/c!. Although by '67, the gap was most likely closing. A Catalina hardtop coupe base priced at $2951, versus $3276 for the convertible. That's a $325 difference. By that time, I think a/c as an option was around $350 or so?

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,054
    edited May 2014

    To me, '67 was the pinnacle of choice in big Pontiacs. There was a lot of choice up until '70 I think, then it got scaled back some. I love their brochures back then, when they looked ridiculously long and wide, always drawn in elegant surroundings.

    Tilt wheel was pretty rare back then in my memory. The '64 supercharged Avanti with 12K miles I drooled over at South Bend last weekend, even in a color I normally am not crazy about, had a tilt wheel, which I knew was available but I'd never seen one. Also had power windows and factory FM radio, both pretty desirable.

    I like how starting in '67, Pontiac really integrated their A/C vents into the instrument panel. A vent went in the upper-center of the panel, and the nameplate designating model would be moved from that spot, onto the glovebox door. The '67 Chevy panel, which I like a lot, still added a lump on top of the dash for the center A/C vent, rather ungraceful. I love, love, love the '65 Grand Prix and Bonneville dash, but would not want A/C as they added the top 'lump' too! ;)

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  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652

    I think in 1970, Pontiac started cheapening out a bit, and one way they did that was to make a 350 standard in the Catalina, rather than a 400. Also, it looks like inflation was beginning to kick in by this time. The convertible, which had been $3276 in 1967, was now up to $3604. That's a 10% jump in just three years!

    I don't know, however, if there might have been more standard equipment by 1970? On the most basic level, the '70 would have required headrests on the front seats, and side door guard beams, which the '67 wouldn't have had. When were collapsible steering columns mandated? I'm thinking that was 1967?

    I wonder if disc brakes and 15" wheels would have been standard on the 1970? My '67 Catalina had 14" wheels and power drum all around (has 15" Rally 2 wheels on it now, though). My '69 Bonneville had power disc brakes and 15" wheels...but it was also a Bonneville, rather than a Catalina.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

    I miss those wonderful interior colors in 60s and 70s cars.

  • ClairesClaires Member Posts: 1,222
    edited May 2014

    Put me down for wing windows, but I'd want them manual -- it always takes me 3-4 tries to get my automatic windows open just a crack, but with the little manual push-thing, I'd have better control. And I'd like to have more color choices, with the ability to choose any interior color with any exterior.

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  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,175

    Locally, they used to call them "cozy wings". I had a '67 BMW that opened them by twisting a round knob about 2.5" in diameter. :)

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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,054

    Andre, not sure about 15" wheels, but disc brakes were standard for sure on full-size GM's by '70.

    When new, I didn't like the '70 full-size Pontiacs at all. I've grown to like them, mostly because I NEVER see them! I'll take a Ventura 2-door hardtop.

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  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    edited May 2014

    If disc brakes were standard on the big cars by '70, would a power assist have been standard, as well, I wonder? I would like to think so, because disc brake cars can be quite a handful to stop without a power assist. At least, from what I've discovered when I've had them stall out...

    One memory that just popped into mind...I remember one year, when I had both my '67 Catalina and '67 Bonneville, I tried to swap the wheels. The Bonneville's 15" wheels would fit the Catalina, but the Catalina's 14" wouldn't fit the Bonneville, because the disc brake setup was too big. So, if discs were standard in '70, I'd guess 15" wheels were, too? Unless the Catalina may have used smaller discs?

    I'll occasionally see a big '70 Pontiac at a car show. I didn't like them when I was younger too, but have grown to appreciate them more, as I've aged. I think they look great in profile, but I'm just not a fan of the too-narrow grille, and the horn ports that give the car sort of a "6-headlight" look. I think that '70 might have been an early adopter of the "retro" look, although in those days it was called "neoclassic".

    I had a '69 Bonneville 4-door hardtop for a few years, from 1992-1996. It was a fast, good-handling car...when it ran. I can't blame GM for it though, as it was an old car when I bought it. And I bought it from my cousin, who was rough on cars. Oh, and it had been struck by lightning. :s Sometimes I wish I had held onto it, but I had to cut it loose when I was on the verge of a bad divorce, and had to cut my losses anywhere I could. With the exception of my 2012 Ram, I think that Bonneville might have been the biggest car I ever owned. 225" long and 125.5" wb IIRC. But, for its massive size, that sucker was impressive in the way it handled.

    Using newer cars such as my grandmother's '85 LeSabre, my '82 Cutlass, and Mom's '86 Monte Carlo, that Bonneville seemed closer in handling and feel to one of those, than it did to my '67 Catalina. Whatever GM did to improve those cars in just two years, they should get some kind of award.

  • trontron Member Posts: 4

    Rumble seats

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited May 2014

    @tron, Subaru Brat. :)

    Not really interested in a front windshield shade either, although I guess they make them for pickups.

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,175

    @tron said:
    Rumble seats

    I don't know... a friend of mine used to pickup my son in a '30s Buick with a rumble seat.. as they drove away, all I could see were dental bills, if they ever stopped short... :(

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

    Rumble Seats---apparently, the most fun back in the day was watching girls try to get in and out of them.

  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555

    Can't BELIEVE I didn't see hydraulic power steering here! Better yet, MANUAL steering without power boost.

    It is a crying shame what electric steering has done to road feel or any sense of connection with the front tires. Not to mention resistance off-center should climb because of g-forces, not because it is artificially programmed into some computer to do so.

    And I will put in a vote for one I saw above: windows wider than gun slits. I like low sills, really dislike the new trend towards these tiny greenhouses on cars.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652

    I haven't had a car yet with electric steering, so thankfully I don't know what I"m missing. I remember the first one I drove though, a 2004 or 2005 Equinox at a GM test drive event, felt so disconnected to the test course that it was downright disturbing. It felt like trying to push a miled-up early 70's mastodon with bad shocks and a worn suspension through the slalom. I had a friend with me, and even as a passenger, he could feel how unstable it felt. He actually hollered at me "please don't roll us over!"

    However, they also had a Saturn Vue, the sporty model called the Red Line or whatever, and it was a world of difference. I don't know if it had electric steering or not, but it handled very well. And oddly, I also took a Suburban out for a spin, and even that thing felt nimble and sure-footed compared to the Equinox!

    I also remembered driving a Malibu Maxx, which had electric steering. It wasn't as bad as the Equinox, but I still didn't care for it.

    In more recent times, I've driven a few Ford, Mopar, or GM cars at the events at Carlisle PA where they offer test drives. I don't remember if any of them had electric steering, but they also don't really let you drive very fast, or far at those events, so it's not really enough to get a truly good feel for the cars. There was one year though, at the GM show where they let you take the cars off the fairgrounds and onto the street...that was pretty cool. Probably a big liability, though.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

    If cars were light enough, you could ditch power steering altogether--especially if you ditched extra-wide tires as well.

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,175

    If cars were that light, they wouldn't have any trouble making the MPG goals, and wouldn't have to resort to stop/start and electric power steering...

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  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652

    Yeah, but if cars were too light, they'd either be unsafe, or too expensive. I imagine that FWD probably makes power steering more of a requirement, as well. Not only is the weight distribution more biased toward the front, but often the engine/transaxle is mounted so that the bulk of it is either on top of the front axle, or slightly ahead of it. On most RWD cars I've seen, the front of the engine is just barely even with the front axle, so you have more of the bulk between the axles, so the rear shares some of that weight.

    I don't think I've ever driven a car with manual steering, except maybe a friend's early 80's Dodge Colt, back in college, and that was just around the parking lot. Now I've driven plenty of cars with failed power steering, but that's a different story! Actually, even something like my '79 5th Ave, with failed p/s, isn't bad in most situations. Parallel parking, or even any kind of low-speed maneuvering is a chore. But once you're moving, you hardly even notice it. Making a sharp right turn, say, from a stop sign is a bit of a workout.

    I drove my '68 Dart V-8 for about 40,000 miles with failed power steering. One of my friends even took his driver's ed test in it. First time he failed, early on in the course, and the cop who took him out had to drive it back, and was griping about it the whole way.

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092

    My dad's 68 Fairlane had manual steering (and brakes, and a 3 on the tree, fun car!) - a chore to drive. Call me spoiled, I'll pass on that experience now. I think the 60 Ford had power steering but manual brakes, which might be more sensible. I suspect the Horizon had manual steering too, given its size and weight.

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    edited May 2014

    I briefly owned a 1967 Newport that had power steering, but manual brakes. Prior to me, it belonged to a petite, little old lady who had owned it since 1971, and she had no problem handling it. However, I imagine that disc brakes today make power almost mandatory. Manual drums aren't that big of a deal to stop, unless you slam on them a few times on a really hot day, get them wet, etc.

    When my DeSoto comes back from the mechanic, I'll be curious to see how its upgraded brakes compare to the originals. Originally, it had 12" drum brakes all around, and two cylinders per wheel up front for that they called "Total Contact" braking. All things considered, it stopped pretty well, although those brakes did get out of adjustment fairly easily.

    Now though, it has M-body copcar discs up front, which are bigger than a regular M-body, and interchangeable with what's on my '79 New Yorkers. At least, interchangeable enough that when my '89 Gran Fury copcar quit running, and my '79 5th Ave needed new pads up front, I swapped them! Yeah, I was kinda poor back then... :s I forget what's on the back...it's still drum brakes. I'm thinking 11" drums, but not positive. It's an E-body 8.75 rear, I know that much...

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,054

    My '64 Studebaker Daytona had no power steering or power brakes. The steering wasn't bad at all unless parking at a near-stop. The brakes were a PITA IMHO though.

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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092

    The 60 Ford definitely didn't have discs, and I don't remember it being hard to drive with manual drums. I think my mom even drove it once. I did some of my driving practice in it, and it was easy enough - although as it was the size of an aircraft carrier, you'd cruise and glide in it rather than drive in a way that would make it act up.

    Speaking of being a poor/cheap, when I was a student, I put shocks on the fintail from a W108 (fintail replacement) that was being parted out - they looked nearly new, and the guy parting the car said I could have them if I removed them. They are still on the car B)

    On fintails, power steering and brakes both were optional on early models, power brakes became standard, power steering was technically optional, but I think all sold in NA have it. It has pretty good brakes, steering is more communicative than a period American car, but not like driving a sports car.

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454

    I think rear drums would work fine on many of the newer cars but the manufacturers have everyone convinced that discs all the way around are the only way to go. Either that or they are in a feature war. I dunno - do all the fancy stability gizmos work better with rear discs?

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652

    The first car I had with 4-wheel discs was a 2000 Intrepid. It didn't have ABS or traction control though. I would actually consider it inferior to the '89 Gran Fury copcar I had before it. At least, it was easier to make the Intrepid lose control, than it was the Gran Fury.

    I'd like to think that they improved things since my old 'Trep, but my 2012 Ram, armed with 4wheel discs, ABS, and traction control, is no great shakes in the snow. It seemed fine the first winter I had it, when we never had more than a couple inches on the ground at any one time. But it didn't like it at all once it got much thicker...especially once you threw a little ice into the mix, heck I think that old Gran Fury would've done better! One problem with the Ram is that the traction control is too overprotective. I ended up having to turn it off to get traction!

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,175

    My '82 Accord hatchback didn't have power steering (although, it had power brakes). It was a great car, but it was a bear to park, for such a small car. (early FWD had a lot of weight over the wheels)

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  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342

    I really do not like the electric steering on our 2013 CRV!

    It feels numb and disconnected compared to the 2003 CRV that I usually drive.

    The 2013 also suffers from poor visability compared to the 2003. The A and C pillars are so thick I feel like I'm sitting in a tub.

    I realize they have to be this way to hold the curtain airbags and to improve rollover
    strength but I still don't like them!

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

    a car doesn't have to be heavy to be safe. Some of the safest cars in the world are among the lightest (race cars). The problem is that "safe + light" is expensive.

  • thebeanthebean Member Posts: 1,216

    I know I'm likely in the minority, but I would like for the manufacturers to give me an option to delete the big screens/touchscreens in the middle of the dashboard stack on every new mid-size car I am considering. I don't need these - the controls as configured on my 2001 ES300 and 2002 Civic are just fine, thank you - and I think these screens are just more stuff to go wrong. I also don't need any way to connect a cell phone into my car. If I need to make a call, I pull over, park, and pull the cell phone out and make the call. Again, just more stuff to go wrong. Maybe call this the Luddite option package delete.

    Also, maybe put in something on a car that will shout "Get off my lawn!!" when I pull into my driveway. :)

    2015 Honda Accord EX, 2019 Honda HR-V EX
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

    I would like to see a LONG list of "electronic deletes" (pick your gadget). I realize this is often not practical since so much of these electronics are integrated into the car's systems, but it would be great for automakers to offer at least one "electronics lite" performance car for the enthusiast.

  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261

    Genuine two and four-door hardtops along with an affordable large station wagon, (not a minivan, not a SUV, not a cross-over). Most of all, I'd like to see a genuine full-size, full-frame, RWD, V-8 car like my Grand Marquis, only updated with today's modern technology.

  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555

    Hear hear on the electronics and touchscreen delete options!

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    edited May 2014

    @lemko said:
    Genuine two and four-door hardtops along with an affordable large station wagon, (not a minivan, not a SUV, not a cross-over). Most of all, I'd like to see a genuine full-size, full-frame, RWD, V-8 car like my Grand Marquis, only updated with today's modern technology.

    Considering how high the beltlines are in today's cars, it probably wouldn't be too much of a stretch to make a hardtop sedan again. One reason hardtops started becoming impractical was that windows were getting larger, while the back doors were getting shorter, so there was simply no place for a window to roll all the way down into.

    With the thicker, stronger pillars of today's cars, a 4-door hardtop would probably do fairly well in a roll-over, despite the lack of a B-pillar. I guess side impact protection might still be a sore spot, though.

    About the closest equivalent to a big throwback car, with updated technology, would probably be something like a Charger or 300 today. V-8 availability, RWD, and a full-sized 120" wheelbase. They're unit-body, but that doesn't bother me. With the exception of Imperial (through 1966), every Chrysler car from 1960 onward has been unit-body. In fact, Chrysler coined the term "Unibody".

    My only beef with the Charger/300 is that they just don't feel like a "big" car to me. It's full-sized by EPA standards, but IMO just doesn't have the shoulder room and trunk volume to really feel like a "big" car. To put it in old fashioned terms, it feels more like an '83 Malibu inside, than an '83 Caprice. Or in more obscure Mopar terms, closer to a Diplomat than a St. Regis!

    IMO though, it wouldn't take too much to make a 300 feel bigger. Maybe bump out the wheelbase by two inches, and put all of that into the back seat. And maybe give it another 1-2" of shoulder room. You wouldn't necessarily have to widen the whole car for this...might just be able to redesign the inner door panels. I dunno how much you'd have to lengthen the rear of the car though, to get the trunk volume from ~16 cubic feet to around 20. And, in the overall scheme of things, I'm sure it would never happen. Even cars the size of a 300, Avalon, or Impala are more of a niche market these days. So it would make even less sense to make something even bigger. Unless it was sold at a premium price, in order to bring profit and prestige.

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092

    I wonder if MB could do a HT E or S-class (it is the brand that has had at least one hardtop coupe in continuous production since 1961). There's been rumors of a 4 door convertible S for years, a hardtop would be easier than that.

  • KCRamKCRam Member Posts: 3,516
    1. A good ol' front bench seat
    2. A horizontal dashboard without the center stack design so that middle passenger of the bench has someplace to put their feet
    3. Fully-separate 5-mph steel bumpers, instead of those full plastic body caps with "impact beams" underneath that do nothing to protect the surface
    4. Keyholes on the passenger-side front door. Who thought it was a great idea to have to unlock the whole car/truck just to access anything besides the driver's door?
    5. Headlights I don't need more than a simple screwdriver to change if they blow or break
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132

    @KCRam said:
    1. A good ol' front bench seat
    2. A horizontal dashboard without the center stack design so that middle passenger of the bench has someplace to put their feet
    3. Fully-separate 5-mph steel bumpers, instead of those full plastic body caps with "impact beams" underneath that do nothing to protect the surface
    4. Keyholes on the passenger-side front door. Who thought it was a great idea to have to unlock the whole car/truck just to access anything besides the driver's door?
    5. Headlights I don't need more than a simple screwdriver to change if they blow or break

    All good ideas. I especially miss the bench seat in front and the passenger keyhole.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited May 2014

    I don't miss the bench seat especially, but the manufacturers insist on filling up the space between the buckets with big cumbersome consoles that my knees bang in to.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

    Wasn't the Lincoln Town Car pretty much a bench seat (faux bench seat?)

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