General Motors Fans

uplanderguy · May 2014

It's a lot of folks' M.O. to say how easy production line workers have it--and I have no family member who ever did it, nor know anyone personally who ever did it--but one thing I see again...and again....and again....in the "I Was There" column in Hemmings Classic Car magazine, when guys talk about their summer jobs or whatever in an auto assembly plant, to a one they said it was often dangerous, wore your body out, and that they were never more happy to get back to college.

robr2 · May 2014

@uplanderguy said:
It's a lot of folks' M.O. to say how easy production line workers have it--and I have no family member who ever did it, nor know anyone personally who ever did it--but one thing I see again...and again....and again....in the "I Was There" column in Hemmings Classic Car magazine, when guys talk about their summer jobs or whatever in an auto assembly plant, to a one they said it was often dangerous, wore your body out, and that they were never more happy to get back to college.

I agree. For my summers in college I worked 3 years in manufacturing plants and 1 in landscape construction. Although the manufacturing plants weren't auto related, the tasks were boring and repetitive. I had to make up games for myself to alleviate the tedious nature of the jobs and I did ache a bit at first from doing the same motion over and over.

andre1969 · May 2014

I think a lot of those manual labor type jobs are often sold short because you don't need a high-priced college degree to do them. To quote Vicki Lawrence, "Once word gets out how easy you've got it, every chimp in the zoo is gonna be in here looking for a job!" But, people forget the toll it takes on your body.

Last year, I re-roofed an old tin shed workshop that's on my property. The structure is about 12x16, but has an overhang. Still, not too huge. Anyway, I did the work myself, and that crap wore me out! I could NOT see doing that type of stuff for a living! And repetitive-type work drives me crazy. One reason I did roll-out roofing, as it's cheaper and quicker. If I did regular asphalt shingles, I think I would have driven myself crazy!

imidazol97 · May 2014

Pretty in pink.

http://www.corvetteblogger.com/2014/05/22/purifoy-chevrolet-builds-a-one-of-a-kind-pink-corvette-stingray/

Michaell · May 2014

@imidazol97 said:

Pretty in pink.

http://www.corvetteblogger.com/2014/05/22/purifoy-chevrolet-builds-a-one-of-a-kind-pink-corvette-stingray/

Rollie Purifoy is on the radio occasionally here in Denver. Seems like good people.

roadburner · May 2014

This would be a fun project. 525 bhp and a six speed manual box. Woo-hoo!!!

imidazol97 · June 2014

GM has more cars than any other brand.

"GM also had more vehicles on the IIHS Superior list than any other manufacturer, including the Cadillac CTS and XTS models, the Buick Regal and the Chevrolet Impala. BMW had two of its products recognized, the 5-Series and the X5 Sport Activity Vehicle. The Mercedes-Benz E-Class and the Hyundai Genesis rounded out the list."
http://www.gm.com/article.content_pages_news_us_en_2014_may_0530-front-end-safety.html

imidazol97 · June 2014

How about a Buick convertible? Possibly coming from Opel much as the Delta II platforms came from Opel for the Cruze and Verano, here comes a Cascadia modified into a Buick for the US market.

Why do I think that's highly likely? It would continue to lower the average age of the Buick buyer.

_"The official top five results are as follows: Lincoln’s consumers average 61 years old, Buick follows with 60.3 years of age, and Cadillac and Bugatti tie for third spot at 59.5 years. Lexus rounded out the top five with an average age of 56.9.

Thankfully, this is not all bad news for Buick. In the last five years, Buick has actually reduced the average age of its customers by 1.1 years, an impressive feat when one realizes that in the same time period, U.S. consumers’ average age has increased by nearly a year across the board. This achievement makes Buick one of four auto brands who have successfully reduced the average age of its buyers.

This statistic doesn’t necessarily tell the whole story, though, as volume continues to be a major focus. In fact, both Cadillac and Buick have experienced a recent increase of sales and, more impressively, many of these sales are coming from buyers who are entirely new to each brand._

Even more interesting, is the point made by a poster with a name that used to be on Edmunds:
"Having an older clientele is no problem, as long as the average age does not go up every year and that is what the issue was with Buick 10 years ago."
Same poster lists a 2009 average age list with the point that older buyers buy more expensive cars and younger buyers are buying less expensive cars. So for Cadillac and Buick, having older buyers means more more money can be spent on the vehicles. A nice convertible can be both income as well as something to lower the average age. http://gmauthority.com/blog/2014/06/cadillac-and-buick-attract-oldest-buyers-in-the-industry/

Mr_Shiftright · June 2014

Nice idea but market data is not very encouraging:

"Worldwide sales of convertibles have plunged 44 percent from their 2004 peak, to 465,800 cars last year—just 0.7 percent of all cars globally—while SUV deliveries have more than doubled, to 15.4 million, according to data from researcher IHS (IHS)." (Bloomberg Businessweek 4-10-2014)

andre1969 · June 2014

If the average Buick buyer is down to 60.3 years of age, that's pretty good actually. I remember about 10-11 years ago, seeing some results published. I forget what Buick's aggregate was, but I remember the Century, LeSabre, and Park Avenue all had an average buyer age of around 70. The Regal was a bit more "youthful", at 57. Ironically, my Dad was 57 when he bought his used '03 Regal...I joked with him that he was now old enough to buy a Buick! I think the Rendezvous was somewhat youthful, at around 44 or 48.

As for that Buick convertible, neat idea, but I don't know how popular it would be. Honestly, the convertible "experience" isn't what it used to be. With those high beltlines, thick A-pillars, a windshield that comes up over you, the big headrests, and a high rump, modern convertibles just don't give you the same open air experience that they did once upon a time. Even with the top down, you just don't get that same "outside", or "one with nature" feeling that the old ones gave you.

I was surprised to hear that Chrysler is giving up on the 200 convertible. But, I guess they have to, since that body style is going away, and I guess they figured there wasn't enough market to do a convertible style based on the new Dart-based 200 that's coming out.

Mr_Shiftright · June 2014

I hear you Andre--I was following an old Triumph convertible the other day and it looked like the driver was sitting on TOP of it, not in it.

imidazol97 · June 2014

@andre1969 said:
I was surprised to hear that Chrysler is giving up on the 200 convertible. But, I guess they have to, since that body style is going away, and I guess they figured there wasn't enough market to do a convertible style based on the new Dart-based 200 that's coming out.

I can see that convertible being popular among older folks in Florida and similarly warm places. There are many Sebring convertibles around this area and I haven't noticed how the 200 convertibles have done.

We can always go back to these GM convertibles. Is this the color of your Pontiac, Andre_1969?

andre1969 · June 2014

That's somewhat similar, although my Catalina is a bit more yellowish...

That Eldorado's interior just looks SOOOO inviting! Thick, plush livingroom seats that you can sink into. And I bet that light beige leather is a lot more comfy in hot weather than the black vinyl of my Catalina.

I saw an Eldorado convertible yesterday, in sort of a copper/burnt-orange color. It was a '75 or '76. Nice looking car, and it looked like it was in great shape.

robr2 · June 2014

IIRC, all the 76 Eldo convertibles were white with red/blue pinstripes as that year was it's swan song and the bicentennial. I could be wrong though.

andre1969 · June 2014

@robr2 said:
IIRC, all the 76 Eldo convertibles were white with red/blue pinstripes as that year was it's swan song and the bicentennial. I could be wrong though.

Nah, they were available in a wide range of colors, but I think the final run of 100 Eldorado convertibles were that bicentennial edition you mentioned. I remember reading that a lot of people bought '76 Eldorados and stored them away, thinking they would become big collectors items, as GM started billing them as "The Last Convertible". Once GM started offering convertibles again in the 1980's, a few of these collectors tried to bring a lawsuit against GM, but I don't think it went anywhere.

imidazol97 · June 2014

The tone in the paint of the Eldo was like the inside of a roasted almond, or like a very lightly tanned biscuit. It had brown tone with little yellow. The seats don't show the tone of the color because the Saturday sun was too strong. It was inviting. The same for the paint being overpowered by the strong sun.

I got to see the car driving away as I was finishing my rounds at that cruise-in. It was driven by an elderly (surprise?) gentleman accompanied by another gentleman in the passenger seat; both matched the car in sharpness of their dress. Did I mention this was a church-sponsored cruise-in, so I suspect they were active because of the church. I've learned the church cruise-ins often get cars out for show that don't show up at most weekly cruises.

It always makes me feel good to see these original cars being driven to or from the cruise. The car was perfect from what I could see. It's for sale if anyone wants to check into it.

andre1969 · June 2014

If I was going to get one of those big 70's GM convertibles, my first choice would be a '75 LeSabre, in that light powder blue that seemed to be a one-year-only color, white interior, and the Buick Mag rally wheels. Like this...

imidazol97 · June 2014

@andre1969 said:
If the average Buick buyer is down to 60.3 years of age, that's pretty good actually. I remember about 10-11 years ago, seeing some results published. I forget what Buick's aggregate was, but I remember the Century, LeSabre, and Park Avenue all had an average buyer age of around 70. The Regal was a bit more "youthful", at 57. Ironically, my Dad was 57 when he bought his used '03 Regal...I joked with him that he was now old enough to buy a Buick! I think the Rendezvous was somewhat youthful, at around 44 or 48.

Not to take the topic off course, but here's a list of data from 2009 posted by a trusted poster in the other source. Maybe someone has access to a more recent listing.

Rolls-Royce
62.9

Lincoln
62.8

Buick
60.8

Mercedes
58.7

Chrysler
56.4

Mercury
55.1

Cadillac
53.4

Jaguar
49.8

Lexus
49.4

BMW
46.1

Ferrari
45.6

Hummer
45.6

Acura
45.3

GMC
44.4

Saab
44.4

Pontiac
43.4

Porsche
43.4

Dodge
42.9

Chevrolet
42.7

Honda
41.9

Toyota
41.9

Infiniti
41.6

Mitsubishi
41.3

Volvo
40.3

Ford
39.7

Land Rover
38.9

VW
38.7

Jeep
37.6

Nissan
35.1

Mazda
34.6

Suzuki
33.2

Isuzu
32.7

Subaru
31.7

Saturn
30.9

Hyundai
29.8

Kia
28.1

Mr_Shiftright · June 2014

Well, if the AVERAGE age for a Buick owner is 60.8 and the life expectancy of a man in the USA is 79.8, no kidding Buick needs to do something about that.

js06gv · June 2014

@andre1969 said:
If I was going to get one of those big 70's GM convertibles, my first choice would be a '75 LeSabre, in that light powder blue that seemed to be a one-year-only color, white interior, and the Buick Mag rally wheels. Like this...

We had a '76 Caprice Classic Landau in that color scheme, but I remember the paint being an even lighter color blue than that LeSabre, and not as bright either. Thinking back, it may have even been a metallic silvery blue, but I remember most of the colors back then were not metallic.

andre1969 · June 2014

@js06gv said:
We had a '76 Caprice Classic Landau in that color scheme, but I remember the paint being an even lighter color blue than that LeSabre, and not as bright either. Thinking back, it may have even been a metallic silvery blue, but I remember most of the colors back then were not metallic.

I think I remember that blue. At least, I can remember a few GM dreadnaughts of that era around here that were a light metallic blue. One of them was a '76 Caprice sedan that I used to see around the University of Maryland for awhile, but then one year I saw it, or one just like it, in one of the local junkyards. That junkyard also had a '76 Delta 88 4-door hardtop for a time. And I remember someone who went to my church (didn't know them; it was a big church) having a light blue '76 LeSabre 4-door hardtop. IIRC, that shade was a bit lighter, as you say, and I think it was metallic.

In 1977, there was another pale blue, non-metallic IIRC, that seemed a bit sickly. For some reason I tend to picture it being on the Firebird most often.

I kind of miss those tasteful light blues, as well as the variety of other colors you used to be able to get. But, I guess they still pop up from time to time, if you get the right car. The 2014 Impala is offered in a nice light blue color that I think they call "Silver Topaz" or something similar. If I was Impala shopping, it would be my first choice.

stever · June 2014

"The company reported that its U.S. sales in May were up 13 percent over a year ago, marking the company’s best month in nearly six years. It said business was up across all four of its brands — GMC, Chevrolet, Buick and Cadillac."

GM sales jumped in May as automaker weathers recall scandal (Washington Post)

andre1969 · June 2014

I don't think people use recalls to bash GM like they used to, since it seems like everybody does recalls these days. You just get so used to them, and all the news, that it dulls the senses I guess.

I'm impressed that the Cruze saw a 40.5% jump, considering it's been out for a few years now. Apparently, it's doing something right! The Impala's 23.1% increase seems impressive as well. According to Wikipedia, the Impala is now the #1 selling full sized car (or whatever passes off as "full-size" these days) in America, toppling the Avalon. I was under the impression that the latest Impala was going to be a fairly low-production model, but I guess it's a fairly hot number.

robr2 · June 2014

I'm guessing full size is Impala, Taurus, Charger, Avalon, Maxima, Azera, Cadenza, LaCrosse although the Avalon, Maxima and LaCrosse are mid size and the Sonata is a full size - all per the EPA guidelines.

fintail · June 2014

I've noticed a few more private plated Impalas on the road in my area - which is something as this is an import car mecca. I probably see as many as I do private new style Avalons - and I see both as rentals, too.

andre1969 · June 2014

Apparently, the stock market appreciates GM's improvement in sales. Its stock is up 3.35% today, as of ~2:25 pm.

Mr_Shiftright · June 2014

Yep, closed at +3.57%. Exactly double in value what it was 2 years ago. Ford didn't quite do as well as that.

andre1969 · June 2014

I just ran my financial numbers, and GM did better today than anything else in my portfolio. Only thing that came close is Cedar Fair Entertainment (FUN), the company that runs Cedar Point and other various amusement parks. It was up 3.4%.

And, on top of that, GM started paying a dividend soon after I bought it. Nothing huge; just 30 cents per quarter. But that's a 3.4% return, based on the current price. So, I'm not griping too much! Oh, and my online broker, Scottrade, rates GM at 5 stars out of 5, so they must be doing something right.

It almost makes me want to show some loyalty, and go out and buy an Impala! In that nice, pretty bluish silver color, that would just have matched the hair on Grandma's wig...

stever · June 2014

You done good @andre1969.

imidazol97 · June 2014

It's over.

General Motors CEO Mary Barra says she fired 15 employees “who we determined to have acted inappropriately” and also disciplined five employees for their failure to act in the recall crisis.

http://www.freep.com/article/20140605/BUSINESS0101/306050066/

The role of GM lawyers is also expected to be part of the report. Georgia lawyer Lance Cooper, who discovered evidence of the defect, sued GM , said he’s still waiting for answers on the role attorneys played.

GM has also hired 9/11 compensation fund head Kenneth Feinberg to consider potential settlements with crash victims and their families. Feinberg said Tuesday that he’s “weeks away” from offering recommendations.

busiris · June 2014

@imidazol97 said:
It's over.

General Motors CEO Mary Barra says she fired 15 employees “who we determined to have acted inappropriately” and also disciplined five employees for their failure to act in the recall crisis.

http://www.freep.com/article/20140605/BUSINESS0101/306050066/

The role of GM lawyers is also expected to be part of the report. Georgia lawyer Lance Cooper, who discovered evidence of the defect, sued GM , said he’s still waiting for answers on the role attorneys played.

GM has also hired 9/11 compensation fund head Kenneth Feinberg to consider potential settlements with crash victims and their families. Feinberg said Tuesday that he’s “weeks away” from offering recommendations.

I don't think "IT" is anywhere close to being "over".

We'll be long gone well before the litigation ends on many these cases....

Shades of Audi...

stever · June 2014

Yeah, and Audi was nearly driven out of the US market back in the day (what was the model, the 5000?).

GM is selling cars left and right so in that sense it is "over".

busiris · June 2014

@stever said:
Yeah, and Audi was nearly driven out of the US market back in the day (what was the model, the 5000?).

GM is selling cars left and right so in that sense it is "over".

Different times...

Recalls have become so common nowadays that practically no one pays attention anymore.

stever · June 2014

Yes and on that note:

"The data suggests that, for the most part, recalls have not discouraged Cobalt owners' loyalty to GM and Chevy," said Jessica Caldwell, an Edmunds senior analyst. "GM has done a good job communicating new-car deals to affected Cobalt owners, many of whom were probably getting close to buying a new car anyway."

Minimal Fallout in Chevrolet Showrooms in GM Recall Crisis

busiris · June 2014

Not much different than Toyota's experience.

Recalls, regardless of manufacturer just don't seem to carry much negative impact as they once did.

Still, it would be interesting to see what, if anything, would have been different if all the recent GM hoopla had surfaced at the same time the bailouts came about...

THAT would have been a difficult decision for politicians to make...

Mr_Shiftright · June 2014

I think GM's reputation was about as low as it could get during the bailout anyway---would one more recall or two have really mattered?

busiris · June 2014

@Mr_Shiftright said:
I think GM's reputation was about as low as it could get during the bailout anyway---would one more recall or two have really mattered?

I was thinking more along the number of deaths associated with the recalls .vs. the actual recalls themselves. That would have been incredible fodder for the anti-bailout crowd...

Mr_Shiftright · June 2014

i wonder...it would have been a very odd speech to make, because cars are inherently dangerous to begin with. Every year as many people die in car wrecks as you'd see at an NFL game. And really the causes of those deaths hasn't been established. I suspect it would have looked a lot like political posturing. But I don't know. Such an argument is unprecedented.

imidazol97 · June 2014

General Motors outselling toyota, Ford, Hyundai and Honda in subcompact market.
http://www.autonews.com/article/20140616/RETAIL01/306169948/chevys-making-a-big-splash-with-sonic-spark

Some interesting demographic info in the article:
""Anyone who does a lot of driving would want the Sonic instead," he says. "It's got so much more space and power."

Despite their differences, the Spark and Sonic are routinely cross-shopped against each other. On Edmunds.com, 20 to 30 percent of visitors researching the Spark in recent months also kicked the digital tires on the Sonic, by far its most cross-shopped nameplate.

The buyer demographics also are strikingly similar. For example, exactly one-third of buyers of each nameplate are 44 or younger, IHS says.

For each, 23 percent of buyers have household incomes of between $50,000 and $75,000. Both have relatively high percentages of female buyers, with the Spark (half) having slightly more so than the Sonic (48 percent), GM says.

imidazol97 · June 2014

Cadillac ELR reviewed by the NY Times Voelk.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osOtjj0Wdxk#t=282

greg128 · June 2014

Good news for GM:

Results of JD Power Initial Quality Survey show GM winning more segments than any other manufacturer with a total of 6 out of 25 categories. 2nd was Hyundai Kia with 5. 3rd was Porsche and
Ford with 3. Honda and Toyota won 1 category each

greg128 · June 2014

More good news for GM:

JD Powers 2014 dependability ratings evaluating reports from owners of 3-year-old vehicles (2011 model years) showed GM winning 8 out of 22 categories, more than any other manufacturer. Toyo-Lexus had 7 and Honda won 6.

greg128 · June 2014

Even more good news for GM:

JD Powers annual survey of Owner Satisfaction with Dealer Service:

"Cadillac Ranks Highest among Luxury Brands for Customer Satisfaction with Dealer Service;
Buick Ranks Highest among Mass Market Brands"

greg128 · June 2014

And believe it or not even more good news for GM:

From AP:

"Consumers looking for a used vehicle aren't shying away from GM models —
even though more than 20 million GM cars and trucks have been recalled this year.

General Motors cars such as the Chevrolet Malibu have retained or increased in value,
sometimes more than rival vehicles. And sales of new cars aren't slowing either,
up 13 percent in May".

andre1969 · June 2014

Seeing that Caddy ELR makes me want to take August off. OFF!

lemko · June 2014

> @andre1969 said:

If the average Buick buyer is down to 60.3 years of age, that's pretty good actually. I remember about 10-11 years ago, seeing some results published. I forget what Buick's aggregate was, but I remember the Century, LeSabre, and Park Avenue all had an average buyer age of around 70. The Regal was a bit more "youthful", at 57. Ironically, my Dad was 57 when he bought his used '03 Regal...I joked with him that he was now old enough to buy a Buick! I think the Rendezvous was somewhat youthful, at around 44 or 48.

As for that Buick convertible, neat idea, but I don't know how popular it would be. Honestly, the convertible "experience" isn't what it used to be. With those high beltlines, thick A-pillars, a windshield that comes up over you, the big headrests, and a high rump, modern convertibles just don't give you the same open air experience that they did once upon a time. Even with the top down, you just don't get that same "outside", or "one with nature" feeling that the old ones gave you.

I was surprised to hear that Chrysler is giving up on the 200 convertible. But, I guess they have to, since that body style is going away, and I guess they figured there wasn't enough market to do a convertible style based on the new Dart-based 200 that's coming out.

Buick's got to thank my wife and I for bringing down the average!

imidazol97 · July 2014

It's over. GM has done a good job of being thorough in handling all possible recalls. Probably have a bunch in there that aren't needed. But it's likely it's over, and now it will be more typical recalls of more recent vehicles.

usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2014/07/04/gm-big-recalls-end/12151987/?AID=10709313&PID=3193616&SID=1p2mhmxx5acrq

stever · July 2014

"Bowsher said his dealerships have some 350 courtesy cars in service and noted: "When someone who has a five-year-old car gets to test-drive a new model for days or weeks, it's the silver lining for them."

In fact, he said, some people come in for a recall wanting to just "trade in and get on with it."

GM Dealer Sees Recalls as Opportunity To Shine

imidazol97 · July 2014

@stever said:
"Bowsher said his dealerships have some 350 courtesy cars in service and noted: "When someone who has a five-year-old car gets to test-drive a new model for days or weeks, it's the silver lining for them."

I've seen several Cobalts in the holding area for service at one local GM store since the parts became available. But I've also noticed several used Cobalts from that dealer and others that have been purchased--all new, shiny, freshly waxed, with a fresh dealer see-thru sticker on the rear. So some Cobalts have been traded in and resold to happy new owners.

I can see that happening if I went in, had a loaner that was a Cruz or Malibu and liked that compared to my 4+-year old Cobalt. Time to trade! I note the resale value on Cobalts is still high. My own has dropped about $1000 retail after 4.5 years and 23,000 miles according to online pricing and the cursory examination of pricing at some regional Chevy dealers.

stever · July 2014

Great marketing "gimmick" - GM dealers are making lemonade.

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