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Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

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Comments

  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,685
    edited August 2014

    If I was getting a Cutlass, it would have to be a two-door. As for the Dodge, we had a '63 Polara with many of the same styling cues, especially in the rear. But a Clifford intake and a 4 bbl don't make this slant 6 a 'sleeper', I'd much rather have a V8 and a/c.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

    72 OLDS--- this car has a number of things against it, including having 4 doors, being a 1972 and not a 1971, and being seriously overpriced. This is really a $3500 car all day long.

    64 Dodge -- another odd duck, not terribly attractive, 4 doors, 6 cylinder. It would be hard to unload once you tire of it (which will probably be very quickly). Price would fair enough I guess if it were a big block V8 but the 6 cylinder is a huge knock on value.

    When it comes to 60s and early 70s cars, it is ALL about the engine.

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652

    I think the '72 Cutlass is cool, because it's a 4-door hardtop. You just don't see those all that often. Although I have noticed that if I do see a '68-72 era GM intermediate 4-door hardtop, it's always a Cutlass. I wonder if Olds made more of that style than Chevy, Pontiac, or Buick did?

    It seems like the Cutlasses are usually very well-equipped too, with cloth and carpeting on the door panels, whereas the Chevy/Pontiac/Buick counterparts are much more spartan, with just the vinyl slabs. I know where there's a '71 Cutlass 4-door hardtop in DC, that even has power windows, but alas it's a total rust bucket.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

    Some 4D Hardtops flatter a car's styling, and some don't.

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    edited August 2014

    I think it's harder to style a smaller 4-door hardtop, because you have to deal with that back window rolling all the way down into the door. Although I guess you could cheat a little, as GM did in '71-76, with the full-sized cars that had a small, triangular piece of window that still stuck up. Or maybe that was just the C-bodies, which had a more squared-off rear window, something the B's would adopt for '74?

    With some really big cars, I think the 4-door hardtops actually look better than the 2-door versions. They seem better balanced overall, with the ratio of roof-to-decklid. On some of those big hardtop coupes, there's not enough roof, and too much decklid. I think Chrysler was especially guilty of this with cars like the '69-73 Imperial.

    GM did a pretty good job with their midsized 4-door hardtops, I think. Chrysler never tried a midsized 4-door hardtop, although I guess you could argue the shrunken '62-64 Fury, Polara, etc. However, they were trying to pass those off as trim-sized full-sized cars. They really wouldn't get marketed as intermediates until '65, when they became the Coronet and Belvedere. Oddly, Ford waited until almost the end of the trend, only offering a 4-door hardtop on the Torino/Montego for '70-71. They must have been really rare. I've only seen two that I can remember. One was at a swap meet in Carlisle, PA, back around the late 1990's/early 2000's. I remember it was light green, had a 429, and they wanted $5000 for it. I thought it would have made a neat sleeper. The other sat out on a street in DC for, oh, a good decade or more. I first saw it in 1997...the reason I remembered it was because it was parked by a green '79 or so Newport. Heck, it even showed up on Google's Street View at one point!

    FWIW, here's a pic I took of that '71 (edit...I think it's actually a '70) Cutlass 4-door hardtop, about a year ago...

  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,685

    For some reason I prefer the 4 door HT in the '66 - '67 Impala, but not the '68+ Cutlass. We had a '69 two-door Cutlass for years, maybe that's it.

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,889

    I like the looks of both, with a lean toward the Dodge, although I dislike the red stripe. I figured both were overpriced, although we don't know the reserve on either. The listing for the Dodge is lacking details and, yes, the slant 6 with pushbutton auto a sleeper? ha!

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,685

    Well, the Dodge would be a 'sleeper'...literally...

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652

    I always wondered how a hopped-up 225 slant six would work out? They tend to be torquey engines with good low-end grunt, but they don't like to rev. They also don't adapt well at all to emissions controls which require them to run hotter, which is one reason they were ultimately phased out. Chrysler offered a "Hyper-Pack" setup for the 225, that was a 4-bbl carb, hotter cam, etc, and it put out 197 hp versus the stock 145. However, it got that 197 at something like 5250 rpm, which seems awfully high for something with such a long stroke.

    The 4-bbl setup in that '64 Dodge is aftermarket though, so Lord only knows how well it would work. In theory, I'd guess that it would perform about as well as your typical base V-8 intermediate of the era, and would benefit in having a 3-speed automatic, whereas a Chevelle would only have a 2-speed, and I think that's all Ford was using on smallblock Fairlanes...unless a 3-speed was optional? But, a 283-2bbl Chevelle with a Powerglide is hardly a sleeper, either.

    My guess is that the mods to that '64 Dodge would make it adequate to keep up with modern traffic, but hardly a performance car. FWIW, back in the day, something like that with the stock 225-1bbl and a 3-speed automatic was probably good for 0-60 in about 15.5-16 seconds.

    Oh, and I'm not really a big fan of that red stripe, either. It's like they're trying to hold onto the vestiges of the 50's.

  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,685

    "In theory, I'd guess that it would perform about as well as your typical base V-8 intermediate of the era,"

    I think that's optimistic, 225 cid is 225 cid, without LOTS of work it would be pretty limited compared to the small block V8s of the era, I'd think.

  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 19,024

    The '68-'72 GM A-body 4-door hardtop is an example of the stylists winning over the production engineers and bean counters. The design required that little molding and contrasting color or vinyl roof material on the top rear edge of the back doors. That would never happen today (assuming anyone still made two-tone or vinyl roof cars!). Personally I always found that detail awkward and ugly.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,432

    At least the olds is close enough to a modern car. But that dodge could easily be transformed over a weekend with a hoist and case of beer. Plus a V8 of course

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  • omarmanomarman Member Posts: 2,702

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  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342

    If one of you have "vision, skill and appreciation" you can triple or maybe even quadruple your money on this one!

    http://seattle.craigslist.org/est/cto/4637354226.html

    Fintail?

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

    Well, if you interpret that as buying the car for $2000, putting $6000 into it, and selling it for $8000 as "tripling your investment", I suppose that's true.....

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,889

    This makes me sad.



    Its like seeing a deer carcass on the side of the road. The damage is done and there just ain't a darned thing anybody can do for the poor thing.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

    Ah well, they're kind of throw-away cars. Nobody much cares about a Milano anymore. If it were a 164LS, that would be a shame.

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,889

    I'd like a Milano with the 3.0. I could never get the trim names straight. Was the 3 liter the Platinum??

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

    No that was the "Verde" trim level.

  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,685

    Saw an episode of 'Fantomworks' that drove home the cost of a frame-off restoration. Guy had a '41 Buick in bad shape. $116,000 later, he had what must be the BEST '41 Buick in the world!

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,889

    Ah, yeah, the Verde. Why "green" is a cut above "platinum" is beyond me. ;)

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

    You have to be Italian to understand this. This is why I can repair Alfa Romeo wiring. It's genetic.

    Actually I think the term relates to the green four leaf clover that is stamped on the car--a traditional Alfa symbol.

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092

    Looks like the rust got taken care of. Still, you have to love it, as you'll never come out ahead. 2K in Germany, maybe. Maybe not much harm done if it has some good bits.

    @isellhondas said:
    If one of you have "vision, skill and appreciation" you can triple or maybe even quadruple your money on this one!

    http://seattle.craigslist.org/est/cto/4637354226.html

    Fintail?

  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,685

    That MB's value depends greatly on whether the lumber comes with it, and what kind it is... ;)

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454

    @qbrozen said:
    Ah, yeah, the Verde. Why "green" is a cut above "platinum" is beyond me. ;)

    You have to have green to buy platinum? :)

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092

    Today I learned the fintail puked up its generator due to the new voltage regulator - I don't know that works, but that was the diagnosis. I should have it back tomorrow or Friday.

  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,272

    Any labor day deals in NY?

    http://newyork.craigslist.org/lgi/cto/4642645453.html If this is your thing. I've never seen exhaust like that in my life

    http://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/cto/4642667640.html As a kid, I thought that these were high style

    http://newyork.craigslist.org/lgi/cto/4642621780.html "Pretty much rust free" Either it is or it isn't

    http://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/cto/4642569828.html Just thinking out loud but could you maaco this and put in some decent seats and have a 20 footer GTO clone that probably is fast for $10k?

    http://newyork.craigslist.org/lgi/cto/4642484421.html Interest in these seems to be on the rise

    http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/cto/4624798471.html It's the 2 + 2 dammit

    http://newyork.craigslist.org/que/cto/4597122169.html Nicest stripper 79 Cordoba left.

    http://newyork.craigslist.org/lgi/cto/4642224704.html These are through the roof. Not my thing

    http://newyork.craigslist.org/brx/cto/4638933204.html No doubt the nicest one you'll see but meh

  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,685

    Why pay 911 money for a 912? Oh, never mind, I just saw what folks are paying for a V6 Dino. YIKES!

    I agree on the GTO clone, seems to have lots of decent parts for a pretty cheap price.

    I like the AMX most of the bunch, seems to be a slightly rough original of a car I've always liked for not too much money.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

    72 Cadillac---oh yeah, we used to call that type of exhaust "straight pipes"

    75 Cougar -- the beginning of the end for Detroit---entrance tunnel to "The Dark Times"

    67 Porsche 912 -- that car will go back to Europe---fairly rare because it is an early short wheelbase model, so very desirable for vintage racing over there. Price seems a tad optimistic, even though it is the most valuable type of 912. It's not very fast and a hopped-up Volkswagen Bug will run away from it. I'd say low $20Ks if there is no serious rust. With this type of car, if the rust enters the floorpan where it meets the A or B pillars, you can just throw the car into a dumpster---it'll never be right.

    72 Pont Lemans --- so the buyer does all this work to the engine and doesn't have a photo of it?

    68 AMX -- I always liked these cars and yes there is interest in them---but this one looks very nasty. I'd say grossly overpriced even for a 390. For that money it should be cleaner. I'd say $12K all day if you're generous--if a shrewd buyer who wants to come out alive, $9K is the number.

    70 Jaguar E-Type -- this car has everything wrong going against it. The color is undesirable, the automatic is undesirable and the 2+2 is generally loathed. Think of it as a Steinway piano, but painted pink with 2 octaves missing and on three legs.

    74 Bronco---that's a pretty darn cool rig. Probably worth asking price.

    70 Nova 6 cyl ---- gee, they'll give anything a trophy these days.

  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 19,024

    The AMX says original and looks it, with surface rust on the bumpers, paint starting to bubble in spots, etc., I don't know if that makes it work $17K or not to be honest, as you'd probably want to redo everything. I wonder how many got a beige interior too?

    The Cordoba seems pretty plain. Colors don't help.

    The Nova reminded me of one locally that I saw every day for years and years, a 2-door that looked like this one only light green metallic with a vinyl roof. Driven by a little old lady, I stopped to admire it a few times and it was obviously driven very little. Eventually she sold it and I saw it around town for a short time, rapidly deteriorating. I haven't seen it in a while now.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

    I don't see how it could be worth $17K. You can buy extremely nice ones for $30K. How are you going to get from "crud" to "nice" for only $13K? You aren't even going to come close.

  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,685
    edited August 2014

    I can't imagine somebody paying that money for the Nova unless their family had that exact car growing up, and they just HAVE to have one again. Otherwise, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

    The car is a "sleeper", but only for the driver ! :)

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342

    Original ball joints and shocks = needs ball joints and shocks!

  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,272

    @texases said:
    I can't imagine somebody paying that money for the Nova unless their family had that exact car growing up, and they just HAVE to have one again. Otherwise, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    I agree. The Nova is a plain jane grocery getter _unless _you have a nice V8, 4 speed, centerlines..... Maybe not original but you can buy all sorts of nice Novas in the teens. Who would be so hopped up about that one and be like sure, 400 horse and 5 grand less but I'll pass?

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652

    In a twisted sort of way, I kinda like that '72 DeVille. I bet it would give Lemko a heart attack, though! The '75 Cougar is kinda cool, too. I'd have to revisit them to really refresh my memory, but IIRC, those intermediate Fords actually fit me better than the rival GM and Chrysler cars. I remember sitting in an LTD-II, which is essentially the same car, and the seating position, while low, at least went back pretty far. Cars like GM's 73-77 intermediates, or the '71-79 Mopar B-body, didn't seem like the seats went back as far, at least with the standard seats. The only reason I'm comfortable in my '76 LeMans is that it has a power seat, and it goes into some pretty contorted positions.

    As for that Cordoba, it's interesting how it's trimmed. Leather seats, cornering lights, and two-toned paint, and it looks like it has cruise control. Yet it has crank windows, and I don't think that steering wheel tilts. Hard to tell if it has power locks or not. On the R-body, with power locks you pull up, or press down, on one of the lock plungers on the front doors and it locks or unlocks all of them. I can't remember if the Cordoba was like that as well, or if it had a switch like how GM did it?

  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,685
    edited August 2014

    While I know that AMX may be a bit high, I like it because it hasn't been messed with, as far as I can see. No big holes cut in the interior for speakers, no rat's nest of wires under the hood for electrical 'repairs', no aftermarket wheels/big tires. How often do you see a '60s air cleaner in such good condition?

    IF (big if) there isn't a lot of hidden rust, all I might do would be to have the bumpers and valve covers rechromed, clean it up, and drive it.

    But...no a/c in Dallas? Sorry, I'll pass.

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,432

    I love those amx models. Though that one needs a 4 speed and rallye pack.

    Of course in the day I owned both a gremlin and a hornet.

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  • bhill2bhill2 Member Posts: 2,466

    @texases said:
    But...no a/c in Dallas? Sorry, I'll pass.

    I have sometimes wondered how expensive it would be to retro-fit A/C on a car (such as the AMX) that offered it as a factory option. Any stories out there?

    2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,432

    Vintage air. Pretty easy to do on one of those. Plenty of rooms for parts!

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

    Yep, Vintage Air makes some very nice retrofits. Of course, you'll have to order the universal kit, since they aren't going to engineer one for an AMX from scratch.

    @stickguy said:
    Vintage air. Pretty easy to do on one of those. Plenty of rooms for parts!

  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,685

    I guess I'm a little conflicted about putting a/c on that AMX. It's fairly original, so adding the a/c will affect that. But it's no trailer queen, so I'd do it. I put a/c on my '72 Duster (moved to Houston), and after replacing the fan and radiator it worked fine.

  • bhill2bhill2 Member Posts: 2,466

    Thank you all for the responses. For some reason I identified Vintage Air with installations in older cars (OK, I'm obviously older myself not to think of a '68 AMX as an older car) where A/C was not originally offered. I did not realize that they make original-looking installations in cars where it was a factory option.

    That reminds me of when my father bought a '74 Vega. He had to have an automatic and power steering because of a shoulder problem. When he broached adding A/C as well, even the salesman told him he might want to think twice. I always suspected it was because trying to turn a corner from a dead stop with the A/C on might have required more power than the engine delivered.

    2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    edited August 2014

    No fintail for the holiday weekend - lo and behold, they didn't think of having the generator sent out, as the investigation stopped at the voltage regulator. A new one arrived, no change. Now the generator has been sent out, and the car is delayed another week or so. I am a little irked.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

    there is a growing trend in the old car hobby not to worry so much about originality, especially if the modification is a) reversible and b) improves the car. Collectors nowadays want to drive and enjoy their cars, especially mass-produced American cars. They are getting tired of sitting in lawn chairs at car shows talking about the correct shape of valve cover bolts or viewing yet another long row of 69 Chevelles.

    @texases said:
    I guess I'm a little conflicted about putting a/c on that AMX. It's fairly original, so adding the a/c will affect that. But it's no trailer queen, so I'd do it. I put a/c on my '72 Duster (moved to Houston), and after replacing the fan and radiator it worked fine.

  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261

    @andre1969 said:
    In a twisted sort of way, I kinda like that '72 DeVille. I bet it would give Lemko a heart attack, though! The '75 Cougar is kinda cool, too. I'd have to revisit them to really refresh my memory, but IIRC, those intermediate Fords actually fit me better than the rival GM and Chrysler cars. I remember sitting in an LTD-II, which is essentially the same car, and the seating position, while low, at least went back pretty far. Cars like GM's 73-77 intermediates, or the '71-79 Mopar B-body, didn't seem like the seats went back as far, at least with the standard seats. The only reason I'm comfortable in my '76 LeMans is that it has a power seat, and it goes into some pretty contorted positions.

    As for that Cordoba, it's interesting how it's trimmed. Leather seats, cornering lights, and two-toned paint, and it looks like it has cruise control. Yet it has crank windows, and I don't think that steering wheel tilts. Hard to tell if it has power locks or not. On the R-body, with power locks you pull up, or press down, on one of the lock plungers on the front doors and it locks or unlocks all of them. I can't remember if the Cordoba was like that as well, or if it had a switch like how GM did it?

    I just HAD to look! YEESH!!! Still, it's not as bad as the rat-rodded 1969 Coupe DeVille I spotted on the way to work a couple months ago. That one truly was a rat!

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited September 2014

    Anybody want to take this on? I found a '79 Cadillac Seville with 25 original miles on it---yep, verified.

    It's been sitting in a somewhat damp underground garage so it smells very moldy inside and ground moisture seems to have affected the engine compartment and chrome to some extent, although not severely. Hasn't run in 34 years.

    I googled the distance from the Cadillac dealer to the residence and yep, 25 miles.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,685

    Wow. As much as I like that generation Seville, with so much to do, and such a limited source for aftermarket parts for the Seville-only engine and interior parts, fuel injection in particular, it seems like a 'can't get there from here' situation. What would it be worth restored? $30K?

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

    Oh, I doubt that much at all Tex. Hagerty's Price Guide, which is wildly generous to begin with, puts a #1 condition car at $13,000. I'd say that's about the sky high limit.

    I'd guess that you could get it on the road and make the interior and exterior "livable" for maybe $3,500. That's not correcting everything of course---just making it safe and habitable.

    So you'd have to buy in pretty cheap. I see these online in very VERY nice condition for $7500--$10,000.

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