Midsize Sedans 2.0

robr2 · August 2014

@suydam said:
I disagree. Mazda has a good reputation. But away from cities there are few dealerships.

I'm not saying tha Mazda has a bad reputation. It's just that it's reputation isn't as good as Honda or Toyota. We all have a psychological need to be part of a group and since Mazda is an outlier, it is not as popular.

Now those that want to be seen as different may gravitate to Mazda. But even there, they are still part of a group - those that want to be seen as different.

m6user · August 2014

Subaru has a very good reputation but it's sales are also low. Everyone can't be huge. Mazda has way less dealerships and people tend to want their dealership handy during warranty. My wife made the final decision on our Mazda and I can assure you it was not because she wanted to be in any kind of group. She didn't have a clue about Mazda and just liked the way it drove in the test drive.

[Deleted User] · August 2014

I found little info on the Mazda 3 NVH issue. Most reviews stated it was excessive road noise. Mazda really tried to keep the weight down, so it could be just a minimal insulation issue. The motor mounts are fluid filled on all three platform variants so the engine shouldn't be shaking the car apart. NVH is why the inline four was designated a "4 banger" in the first place.

I also found that the 3 was the 2nd best selling car in Australia 2013, passed only by the Corolla. So, I don't think Mazda is going to fold any time soon. They really did a good job at sharing three models across one platform (Maz3 Maz6 and CX-5), which greatly reduced cost, and they all are top notch cars.

I also think Subaru did a great job with the new Legacy. It's proportions are right, and it is generally pleasant to look at inside and out. I would save up for the flat 6 if I wanted to do any kind of spirited driving, but speed is not the biggest consideration with loyal Subaru folk. It's the AWD and the promise of returning home safely on icy back roads in the northern States. If I lived in PA,NY,NH,ME or VT I would very much consider one. (and Canada too of course.)

robr2 · August 2014

@m6user said:
My wife made the final decision on our Mazda and I can assure you it was not because she wanted to be in any kind of group. She didn't have a clue about Mazda and just liked the way it drove in the test drive.

I didn't say everyone bought a Mazda for that reason. But subconsciously, many do buy Mazdas, Subarus or other non-mainstream brands because they consider themselves better than the sheeple that buy Hondas or Toyotas.

backy · August 2014

I don't think that's it at all. I think people buy Subarus and Mazdas because they offer something not offered by Toyota or Honda. Subarus offer AWD of course. Try getting that on a Camry or Accord. And Mazdas offer that fun-to-drive element that's missing from almost every Toyota (including the Camry) and even some Hondas (maybe not so much the Accord, but certainly today's Civic).

And those differences could also explain why Subarus and Mazdas sell in much smaller numbers than Toyotas and Hondas. How many people really need AWD in a sedan, and are willing to pay a little more for it? How many people (overall, not just people who post here) really look first and foremost for a mid-sized sedan that's fun to drive, vs. having a quiet, smooth ride?

Now that the Legacy is finally competitive in both price and FE with non-AWD mid-sized cars, it will be interesting to see if sales pick up.

m6user · August 2014

People that buy less popular cars may like something a little different but I doubt they think they are better than other people. Maybe that's how you think, robr2, but not me.

suydam · August 2014

Back in the day we bought a Mazda because we couldn't afford a Honda. Now that price advantage isn't there.

[Deleted User] · August 2014

He said "sheeple" LOL. It gave me a mental image of lines of people, all wearing gray and purchasing grey Camry LE's by the thousand....

explorerx4 · August 2014

Didn't get all the details, but I saw a billboard advertising a Camry lease for $57 a month! I'm sure the 'sheeple' are lining up for that one!

backy · August 2014

I hate those kind of lease ads. I saw one like that in today's paper, for a Mitsubishi. Of course, there's a humongous down payment + TTL. I stick to the zero-out-of-pocket leases myself. One big reason I lease cars sometimes is to minimize my up-front costs.

[Deleted User] · August 2014

@explorerx4 said:
Didn't get all the details, but I saw a billboard advertising a Camry lease for $57 a month! I'm sure the 'sheeple' are lining up for that one!

Like flies to a light bulb....

[Deleted User] · August 2014

These days it is impossible to watch TV without seeing at least one car insurance commercial during EVERY break. Sometimes there are three adverts per break.

With that said; how much are you guys paying for car insurance on your mid-size, and have any of you shopped around recently and found an extra-awesome low rate?

I will start out. I was a loyal Progressive customer and was paying $124 until I switched to Liberty Mutual 6 months ago. Now I am at $97 with one ticket 2 years ago.

In related advert news, I now hate the Acura TLX commercial more than any other. I believe it includes a bad punk rock band doing a cover...a really bad cover, of Frank Sinatra's "I did it my way".

m6user · August 2014

Rates vary so much city to city, state to state. Then you have to consider the car itself....age, original sticker etc. Other variables are coverages, deductible, age of drivers(s), gender, marital status, driving record, teenage drivers, miles driven, etc. etc. Comparisons are almost useless.. Maybe there is forum within Edmunds that actually discusses this topic.

We pay about $1500 a year for 3 cars worth about $45k at this time with full collision, $500 deductible and two adult drivers with no tickets or accidents in last 10 years. I don't think that would help you much though. See what I mean.

[Deleted User] · September 2014

@m6user said:
Rates vary so much city to city, state to state. Then you have to consider the car itself....age, original sticker etc. Other variables are coverages, deductible, age of drivers(s), gender, marital status, driving record, teenage drivers, miles driven, etc. etc. Comparisons are almost useless.. Maybe there is forum within Edmunds that actually discusses this topic.

We pay about $1500 a year for 3 cars worth about $45k at this time with full collision, $500 deductible and two adult drivers with no tickets or accidents in last 10 years. I don't think that would help you much though. See what I mean.

Yes, I get it. I was kind of hoping for a range. I take it most of us are over 30 but under 60, have one ticket or less, and own one car in this class that is being financed.

I was a Progressive guy for 5 years, and was always able to get them to match other quotes...but in the end they were $30 higher than Liberty Mutual so I switched.

backy · September 2014

You switched for $30? Wow. I've had Progressive for a couple years now, switched from Farmers after many years because I got a much better deal with Progressive. I've been pleasantly surprised by the service I've received from Progressive. One thing I like about them is they don't ding me for every accident, e.g. my 18-year-old daughter bumped a car in a parking lot a few months ago (it just happened to be an E Class), and I asked Progressive if that would increase my rates. They told me "accidents happen" and since I was a loyal customer it wouldn't impact my rates. I recently got a quote from another insurance company that touted a "special deal" they have for people from my company. It was double what Progressive charges me. I've also compared Geico and they couldn't get close to the Progressive rates. FWIW I also got Progressive (i.e. Ameriprise) for my homeowner's insurance because they saved me a ton of money over what Farmers was going to charge me, and got better coverage to boot. Had one claim on that, last year, for water damage, and not only did the settlement more than cover my costs, but Progressive refunded my deductible because they went after the manufacturer of the dishwasher that broke (out of warranty) and got a settlement from them.

[Deleted User] · September 2014

I still shouldn't be dinged "because of my history". With three kids to put through college $30 a month saved is $30 a month earned. BTW, when I switched they offered me $124 to come back....but wouldn't budge on the $141 I was really paying until they got a cancellation notice.
Like I said, I was loyal for 5 years, knowing I was paying too much. That is long enough considering the accident wasn't in any way my fault.
BTW backy, they do a lot of marketing to make you feel special, with their "silver, gold, and platinum" customer status. That is all horse*&^%. If you want to really feel special you should get a smaller bill, and know they will replace my car with one 1 model year newer and with 15k fewer miles.

akirby · September 2014

You didn't say $30/month. We thought it was $30/year.

backy · September 2014

Yes, $30 a month is real money... $1 a day. I have 3 kids to put through college also (2 down, 1 to go) so I understand that. If "Platinum" were just marketing, I'd agree with you, but forgiving an at-fault accident that must have cost them at least $5000 total for both cars backs up their marketing. And I've found their claim service to be fast, and convenient. Had hail damage on my wife's Sonata last year, and I simply drove about a mile to a temporary claims center they'd set up, got the estimate, and they asked me, "Do you want us to repair it for you (PDR) right now?" They had brought in a PDR unit. I said, sure. They drove me home, and took care of the car that day. And their PDR provider gave me a nice deal that cut my deductible in half. The other two claims I've had, both on my daughter's car (one her fault) were also handled with no muss, no fuss.

All I'm saying is, it would take me more than $1 a day to switch if I were happy with how I'd been treated overall. Which is why I stayed with Farmers for so long. But when I found out Progressive would save me $2000 a year on car insurance and about $800 a year on homeowner's insurance, it was easy to say farewell to my long-time Farmers agent.

suydam · September 2014

That's good. You're happy with the coverage. If you get consistent premium raises AND so-so service, you would be more motivated to look elsewhere.

[Deleted User] · September 2014

Right now my situation is different. Just me driving for another year and a half. That switch to Lib-Mu allowed me to pay my property tax on the car...a pretty good deal right there.

Would you pay Capital One or whoever an extra $30 a month in fee's? Heck no. Paying for an accident you may never have is to me gambling. I like money in the bank.

akirby · September 2014

Fusion August sales - 29,452. Best August ever. Retail sales increased 23 percent (27 percent in California).

benjaminh · September 2014

Midsize sales for August:

Accord 51,075

Camry 44,043

Altima 32,153

Fusion 29,452

Sonata 21,092

Malibu 16,346

Optima 15,337

200 10,810

Passat 9190

Legacy 5987

Mazda6 5631

Avenger 2905

akirby · September 2014

51K? Holy cow!

Michaell · September 2014

@akirby said:
51K? Holy cow!

When you can get them for up to $2K back of invoice, I'm not surprised.

stickguy · September 2014

well, I look at a 2014 EX yesterday, and their first offer was $3,600 off MSRP. so yeah, they are discounting.

Serious lease cash on the Camry too.

nyccarguy · September 2014

I'm one step closer to taking the plunge and posting with more regularity here in mid sized sedans 2.0 the in Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans. I stopped by the Subaru Dealer in Rye, NY where I drove the Impreza last week. This time I stopped by to put the newly redesigned 2015 Subaru Legacy through its paces. My test model was a Legacy Limited.

I sat in the car and adjusted its mirrors while my sales guy attached a demo plate. Dash materials are very high quality and soft touch plastics are everywhere. The seats are padded very hard, almost with a Mercedes-like stiffness.

Foot on the brake, shift into Drive, & off I go. I immediately notice how much more responsive the 2.5L is compared to the 2.0 L in the Impreza. The steering does provide decent feedback for being electric, but its still too light for my tastes (to make matter worse, I drove my BMW today).

I hopped on the highway. The engine pulls strongly while the CVT responds to every stab of the throttle. This car will have absolutely no trouble keeping up traffic at the normal 70 - 75 mph clip I usually cruise at.

My biggest issue with the dashboard is its layout. The tach is on the right and the speedo is on the left (My Hondas and my BMW have tach on the left & speedo on the right). This is going to take some getting used to.

The ride is definitely on the taut side of comfortable. Which is fine by me. It rides very close to an old school Honda before they started softening up the suspensions to market to the Camry crowd.

There is a bit more body roll than I like & I'm used to, but again I'm comparing it to my BMW & my Prelude (with thicker sway bars) so take that with a grain of salt.

Handling characteristics are pretty neutral. I took an off ramp a bit faster than I should have (kept looking down at the tach, thinking it was the speedo) and the Legacy definitely didn't under steer.

Brakes seemed pretty good. Pedal feel was linear and progressive. I'm spoiled by my 328xi's stellar stoppers though.

As you can all tell, I liked the car a lot.

stickguy · September 2014

you have a built in excuse for when you get stopped for speeding: "but officer, I was only doing 25!"

oh, and I told you that once you drove the Legacy you would not want to go back down the scale.

Your review certainly fits with my impressions. Plus it was quite roomy, even lots of headroom with the moonroof.

and it is a double edge sword comparing to the BMW, but you will get over that. Everything has lighter steering. I used to notice a lot more on our RDX (certainly vs. the old TL) but have since adjusted and no longer notice it.

overall, I liked the feel/drive on the Legacy more than the Accord I drove the day after. Odd. Plus I still like the Camry XLE a lot for some reason, but could not quite convince myself to pull the trigger. For me, it is down to the Camry and Legacy, and since the Camry is a 2014, if I diddle a bit longer it will no longer be an option!

stever · September 2014

A reporter is looking for shoppers who recently traded in a midsize sedan for an SUV because they think gas prices aren’t a big deal anymore or they were just blown away by the fuel-efficient crossover offerings now available. If you think you can help, please reach out to pr@edmunds.com by no later than Wednesday, September 10, 2014.

[Deleted User] · September 2014

@benjaminh said:
Midsize sales for August:

Accord 51,075

Camry 44,043

Altima 32,153

Fusion 29,452

Sonata 21,092

Malibu 16,346

Optima 15,337

200 10,810

Passat 9190

Legacy 5987

Mazda6 5631

Avenger 2905

The 200 beat the Mazda 6????? What?????? old 200 or new 200? Either way, Mazda USA needs to step it up a notch.. God!!!!!! Yuk!

backy · September 2014

And the Malibu beat the Mazda6 too! And the Optima! And the Passat! And the Legacy! My gosh, the Malibu must be better than all of those other cars!

Or maybe GM can make more Malibus than Mazda can provide Mazda6s?

Anyhow... the 200 ain't that bad a car any more.

ab348 · September 2014

I doubt there is a shortage of MAzda 6 vehicles. However, it appears there is a shortage of Mazda 6 buyers.

Really, Mazda needs to figure this out. It is almost an embarrassment. The automotive press falls all over themselves to shower it with praise, and nobody wants one.

backy · September 2014

Actually, there IS a shortage of Mazda6s.

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/09/23/mazda-low-supply-high-sales/

The article notes that Mazda has trouble supplying enough Mazda6s, built in Japan, to the US market.

Mazda USA sales increased 26% in 2012 and another 2.5% in 2013, their best year since 2007. Retail sales in 2013 increased 16% over 2012, as Mazda cut back on fleet sales.

In 2013, Mazda sold 43,638 Mazda6s here. For 2014 through August, 37,598 Mazda6s have been sold... over 8,000 more than YTD sales in August 2013 and just 6,000 behind all of 2013. August sales were 32.5% higher than August 2013.

The CX-5 is also selling well. The biggest disappointment for Mazda USA is the new Mazda3, for which sales to date are less than in 2013 despite an all-new model. Plus Mazda can supply more Mazda3s than before with the Mexico plant coming online.

m6user · September 2014

Mazda is a small auto manufacturer. So is Subaru. Kind of a niche market as Mazda markets to the people that want a sporty family hauler. Most people looking for midsize sedans in this category don't care all that much about sporty handling as it usually affects the softer and quieter ride. Looking at the numbers in some sort of context is better than just rattling off monthly sales numbers. Thanks Backy for providing some context. I just fail to understand why this concept is so hard to understand. If I had a burger chain with 10 outlets I would sell a lot less burgers than McDonalds. Doesn't mean I can't make money and it doesn't mean my burgers are any worse. Just smaller numbers.

Chrysler Corp has some outstanding numbers overall this year. Plus they have dealerships in nearly every little town across America. People usually have to visit bigger cities to find a Mazda dealer.

brian125 · September 2014

Mazda6 GT,

$33K plus is just too high for a car with that engine. Underpowered. Dynamically, the Passat is its closet competitor, and for that price it offers a more sophisticated powertrain - a direct injected narrow angle VR6 with blistering 5.6 seconds to 60 with a dual clutch DSG - and lest we forget that the standard 1.8FSI engine gets the same mileage as the Mazda engine, with much improved performance (0-60 7.3). It also offers nicer and better thought out interiors and infotainment screens - all in package that's quieter, rides better, and is more refined. That being said the Passat isn't selling like it should be. Maybe its the bland looks and the previous years reliability record that's hurting this vehicle.. The 2015 Passat I think is a big overall improvement. Car, Motor choices, and Trans. I'm waiting to see what the experts have to say about this new model. Have you noticed the Passat sales are climbing for Aug. The 2015 model sales will double by next year due to the upgraded motors and trans. options.

The other things I did not like about the Mazda6 was ;

The Mazda6 is very tight inside for a 6' plus person. When I drove the 6 in Feb., the vehicle we test drove had the moonroof. My head was hitting the roof. Hip room was tight. Back seat egress / ingress is not as good for a family of 4 compared to the Accord , Fusion, Altima etc.

Mazda handling was exceptional. Underpowered motor @184h/p. To much road noise inside cabin for me.

Mazda sales were better in August. There just not going to get the average family folks to buy this vehicle cause its sporty looking or can take a turn better. Those buyers wont be persuaded. Mazda's sales numbers prove that.

I help a lot of people get better deals on vehicle pricing. In the family sedan market I have nobody asking for help with a Mazda6. I find it odd. But it proves some of my theories.

Honda , Ford , Nissan , Hyundai, Kia , Toyota is where most people are buying.

Mazda should make this vehicle with bigger engine choices / Trans. . A turbo, Diesel and go after the sports car sales. A poor mans........... BMW, Audi, etc.

My 32 year old son said if there was a upgrade motor or turbo in the Mazda 6 he would of bought it. Instead he spent more $ and bought the BMW.

backy · September 2014

$33k is too much for ANY mid-sized family sedan, IMO. You can get a fine mid-sized family sedan for a little more than half that amount. It won't have 18" wheels or leather or every technical gizmo known to mankind, but a roomy, comfortable, economical, safe, reasonably powerful, and in some cases great looking and fun to drive car. For example, a Mazda6 Sport can be had for a little over $20k. An Accord LX, about the same. For a little less, a base Fusion or Sonata or Optima.

If I were to spend $33k for a car, it wouldn't be a car designed to sell for under $20k in base form. It would most likely be a gently-used entry luxury car such as a 3 Series or A4.

brian125 · September 2014

A good price point . Mazda has done a bad job not separating the lower end models motor to higher end. Same motor choice. A bigger motor would generate more sales for this car. The sales numbers suggest family buyers are not interested in this vehicle. Lower or higher end. Although a Turbo motor could possible steal money away from BMW, Audi's lower end models. Not many family buyers are going to drop down 30 to 33k for the upper model Mazda. Option a 300 h/p motor for under 30k. Now you have a contender in the sports car segment. Ride, Handling, Power, Fun to drive would be a homerun for the price. Family sedan not happen

Why is it Chrysler's 200 doubled sales on the Mazda 6 in August. Is it because its a better car ? reviews suggest its not. More Chrysler dealerships? Deeper discounts? Does Chrysler offer more upgraded motor sizes? or options for the money. Why is the Accord , Camry, 9x the sales of the Mazda6. Lower end models suggest pricing is about the same. With reviews being stellar for Mazda

I'm scratching my head on this. I buy the lower end Mazda 6 over the Chrysler 200 any day. Its a no brainer to me. With Ride, handling, reliability and resale on my side.

Just some thoughts on why>.

akirby · September 2014

Chrysler 200 jump is probably due to fleet sales, but I'm just guessing. Some of us like those 19" wheels and other amenities. I would buy a loaded Focus before I bought a base Fusion, but that's just me.

m6user · September 2014

Chrysler has 2,390 dealerships in the U.S. and Mazda has 637. That is about 4 times as many dealers. Based on the sales numbers some people are so hung up on, Mazda sold twice as many Mazda6s per dealer than Chrysler did 200s. God! Yuk! Chrysler needs to step it up. LOL.

From my limited experience, most Mazda dealers are usually quite a bit smaller in size than Chrysler dealers but I'm sure there are exceptions. But my original premise still stands that Mazda has a smaller footprint than many other car makes in the U.S. and is most comparable in size to Subaru which sells similar numbers of midsize sedans. It's funny how nobody is always saying Subaru must sell a lot more cars but Mazda does.

I don't think it has that much to do with not offering a model with more horsepower and I would dare say that the Skyactiv technology is certainly as advanced as anything from VW. With the i-eloop or whatever it's called capacitor, the Mazda6 gets 40mpg highway on regular gas. Could they sell a few more with a bigger engine? Sure, and I'm sure they considered that. But with limited manufacturing capability they seem to want to simplify their line up. They probably figure they won't sell a ton of the GT for $33k but there are some people that want every bell and whistle available. I do agree that for $33k, the decked out model is expensive but if you look at the amount of safety tech that it has that many other makes don't even have, it isn't such a stretch. I just think it's a niche brand that doesn't appeal to the majority of family sedan buyers but has it's followers just like Subaru does. They are both good cars, just like most of the others.

As far as price, the GT vs. the Accord EX-L. Very similar HP/TQ numbers. The base Mazda6 Grand Touring cost about $1400 more than the EX-L. For that you get the following additional items.

Standard Navigation with voice recognition
11 speaker Bose system
HID headlights
Directional headlights
Blind spot sensors
19" alloys vs. 17" on the Accord.

Not saying it's a great deal but probably worth the extra $1400. So, IMO, it's not really overpriced compared to others, but certainly up there in price.

ab348 · September 2014

Well, it is an interesting debate. Is Mazda underperforming because of their small dealer network or is the car not what consumers really want? Even though all the auto reviewers absolutely love the Mazda 6, the shortcomings of the car have been noted by a few posters. These never seem to factor into the reviews.

m6user · September 2014

What is your definition of underperforming? Profit per car? Cars sold per dealership? Compared to what? They are tremendously up over last year and hiring engineers like crazy. I used to work in retail management eons ago but there used to be a saying that still applies today......sales without profits is a fools delight.

Auto reviewers, I assume, like to drive and probably drive hard. What would you think they would like to drive better, a Mazda6 or a Camry? Of course the reviewers like the Mazda6 and it's probably that same reason that many family buyers don't like it. It's a niche vehicle. Is that so hard to comprehend that they are are a small company and will never, ever come close to big boys. And guess what, they don't have to to make decent profits.

brian125 · September 2014

FYI; Mazda dealers need to make a decent profit. 74 Mazda dealerships have closed since 2006. There are only 637 left.

A small company like Mazda needs all there products to pull there own weight to stay afloat. I do agree with some of @m6user posts on Mazda's in general. Mazda is going in the right direction as is Subaru with there vehicles. The Gov't gave GM our money and the tax payers are 10 billion in dept.

Thank you GM For crappy vehicles and a mis-managed company. When Gm decides to pay back the money we lost on the loan is when they see my hard earn money again.

m6user · September 2014

"FYI; Mazda dealers need to make a decent profit. 74 Mazda dealerships have closed since 2006. There are only 637 left."

I would think making a decent profit is the goal of any and all auto dealers. FYI here is an article that addressess the closing and potential closing of Mazda dealerships.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20131216/RETAIL07/312169974/mazda-u.s.-dealer-network-faces-shake-up

maxamillion85 · September 2014

Finally got a new car...chose the Fusion! I've had it for about two week but haven't really had time to do a full review on the car yet...here goes.

Pros:

-Styling, one of the best in class...along with Optima and Mazda6
-Interior materials/design- Everything is high quality (except the leather upholstery) the entire interior feels "premium" compared to the competition
-6spd manual availability-at least for now, mine is nearly loaded and the 6spd is smooth
-Feature content-leather, moonroof, navigation, I'm loving all the content.
-Sharp handling, reminds me a lot of my 1991 Accord
-Fuel economy so far has been excellent, surprising given the fact that its a turbo four
-Pricing-Excellent price on mine, 0 percent for 60, I cannot complain!

Cons:
-No push button start...Ford is stupid for not making it standard on all "SE" Fusions
-18 inch wheels...I think the design of the Nickel finished wheels is kinda boring...the same wheels in gloss black are sexy though
-CHEAP leather upholstery-already showing signs of wear...good thing I got the black interior
-MyFord Touch is a bit glitchy and lacks Pandora capability...the voice commands are hit and miss as well
-It turns like a BOAT, I HATE parking this thing in my garage spot
-Clutch is SUPER light...I have to catch myself sometimes...gonna take some getting used to.

The Competition:

Essentially I was down to the Mazda6 i Grand Touring and the Ford Fusion SE 1.6t/6spd manual. Had the 6 GT been available with a stick shift and a more updated infotainment system the choice would have been much tougher. It was a hard choice but overall the Fusion just made the most sense and won out over the 6.

I drove the Accord EX-L I4/CVT, the Optima EX 2.4, Mazda6 i GT and Nissan Altima 2.5SV/SL. The Passat and Camry were not considered at all...too bland and too boring. The Sonata was not considered either, I don't particularly care for the styling of the 2014 or 2015 Sonatas.

Mazda6 i GT: The Driver's Choice...with too many compromises

Pros:
-Exterior Styling...best in the class IMO
-Sharp handling, better than anything else in the class
-Excellent fuel economy
-Best in class interior materials, the leather is superb

Cons:
-Worst infotainment system ever....terrible graphics, terrible location/placement of controls and ridiculously small screen
-Low seating position....while the interior itself has excellent materials, I just couldn't get used to how low the car felt to the ground
-6spd automatic just feels sluggish compared to the CVT in the Accords
-Wind noise is not good

I drove the 6 and Fusion back to back at least three times...as much as I liked the styling of the 6, I just could not stand the infotainment system. I was really wanting another stick shift sedan (my 07 Accord was a manual) and try as I might the 6 just wasn't as fun with the automatic transmission as the Fusion was with a stick (The Fusion automatic would never, ever be considered by me) Small, outdated graphics, tiny screen, terrible Tom Tom design, I just hated it. When the car gets an updated interior for 2016 (as rumored) I might reconsider it...the lack of manual transmission was just another nail in the coffin regardless.

Accord EX-LI4: The Accountants Choice...excellent value, smart buy but BORING

Pros:
-Roomy interior, car just feels roomy and airy, more so than anything else I drove.
-Feature content galore...LDW, Lanewatch, Forward Warning collision
-Excellent ride quality
-Fuel efficiency

Cons:
-Bland styling (exception-Sport)
-Cheap interior materials
-Strange, overly complex interior design
-CVT only, its a great CVT, but its still a CVT and I hate them honestly

I WANTED another Accord, I really really did. I've posted thousands of times about how much I like the current Accord...but its just no longer the "car" for me. Its competent, its roomy, its affordable and offers an excellent value but I'm bored with them. Honda needs to expand the Sport trim levels, rework the interior design and use better interior materials. The carpeting inside the new Accords is so thin that its pathetic, door cards/window switches are pre- bankruptcy GM terrible. Handling is competent, but the car is never "fun" Give me a Sport EX-L with 6spd manual or even paddle Shifters and perhaps I may replace the Fusion in a few years.

Kia Optima EX: Bargain of the Year...but showing its age.

Pros:
-Feature content...loaded to the gills...leather, pano roof, heated/cooled front seats, etc. etc. LOTS of content
-Pricing...with discounts its a steal
-Handsome interior design

Cons:
-Bland, only the SX/SX-T models look interesting and the pre-facelifted models were classier
-Cheap interior materials...better than the Accord, but not nearly as nice as the Fusion/Mazda6
-Mushy handling...H/K have come a long way but the cars still lack refinement

I loved the Optima (and Sonata) it was first redesigned in 2010, now the cars are showing their ages. It still a handsome car in most senses but the updates for 2014 and 2015 aren't exactly pluses. The car packs lots of content, has excellent pricing and does everything "well" but they just don't feel as refined as the competition, they lack the polish and finesse of the Fusion and Mazda6 and probably won't match the reliability of the Accord.

Nissan Altima 2.5SV/SL: The Toyota Camry Alternative

Pros:

-Some neat content (tire monitor that beeps at you when the tires or too full or too low, remote engine start, rain sensing headlamps)
-Roomy interior
-High quality interior materials
-FAST
-Fuel efficient

Cons:

-Styling that manages to be both bland and ugly
-Bland as white bread interior design
-CVT sucks
-Lack of feature content compared to the class competition
-Most unrefined engine I've driven in a midsize sedan

I owned a 2005 Altima before my last Accord and I loved the styling, loved the outright acceleration but hated everything else about it after a few years. The new Altima is better in every way compared to my old 05, but it seriously lacks the refinement of the others, Kia Optima included. Its got an excellent set of interior materials and some "neat" convenience features but the car overall just lacks something. The Engine is bi-polar in that it gets excellent fuel economy and has excellent acceleration but it just feels dated (because it is) and the CVT is not nearly as good as the Accords. Nissan's styling as of late leaves a lot to be desired and just doesn't come off as appealing at all. Pricing is also not that great from my experience.

Overall I'm very happy with my choice...the only thing I would have done differently is gotten the Gloss Black 18 inch wheels and perhaps the Driver Assist pkg (LDW, BLIS, rain sensing wipers, etc) I was willing to deal with a dealership out in Connecticut to get exactly what I wanted but the customer service (and the sales tactics turned me all the way off) Glad I got my car from the dealership I got it from...the service was EXCELLENT...thanks Golf Mill Ford in Niles, IL!

Here are a few pics...its "Darkside" (Dark green/gray/black/blue) with "Charcoal" Leather interior
https://www.flickr.com/photos/49020257@N03/

Mustang is NEXT...in about four years...2.3t Ecoboost of course

brian125 · September 2014

Nice reviews. enjoy your new ride.

benjaminh · September 2014

The Accord may be the Accountants choice, but we beat the Fusion going 0-60, for mpg, and in resale and reliability....

jpp75 · September 2014

Congrats on the new Fusion and thanks for a great review. I really like the Dark Side color.

akirby · September 2014

SE is really the base Fusion model. S is only for fleets and advertising purposes. A lot of people don't want push button start so it's good that it's optional.

maxamillion85 · September 2014

@benjaminh said:
The Accord may be the Accountants choice, but we beat the Fusion going 0-60, for mpg, and in resale and reliability....

Reliability for both is yet to be determined honestly...I've been reading some reports of CVT issues with the Accords on DriveAccord.net and the DI technology in the Accords is no guarantee either so far I haven't had an issue with my Fusion so we'll see I'll take that risk.

I got my car at X-plan pricing minus $2750 in rebates, plus ZERO percent financing. I'm not worried about resale value...I'm never going to trade the thing if its half as reliable as my Accord was. I read somewhere that only about 2200 manual Fusions were even produced for MY2013 and 2014. I'm gonna hold on to mine.I like the uniqueness of it. I pull up into a drive thru and people are like "that's a stick, I didn't know the Fusion came in stick"

0-60 means absolutely nothing to me in a midsize family sedan. As long as I have the power when I need it (so far this car has held its own in Milwaukee traffic quite nicely) I'm ok with that. I'm averaging right around 27 MPG in all urban city driving in the Fusion so far...and that's with an enjoyable, fun to drive manual transmission. Something Honda refuses to give me with anything above a spartan Accord EX.

maxamillion85 · September 2014

Another issue with the Accord (and I've been totally vocal about this) is the interior design and materials. The Civic got panned for its cheapness, the new Accord isn't as bad as the 2012 Civic was, but its a sharp decline in quality compared to my old 07. Cheap carpets, brittle feeling door panels and lower dash plastics, overly complicated dual screen system, it just needs a total revision IMO. The only thing the Accord has that I wish my Fusion had is Pandora capability. The bluetooth streaming option is nice, but to have the full capability built into the interface would be nicer.

maxamillion85 · September 2014

@akirby said:
SE is really the base Fusion model. S is only for fleets and advertising purposes. A lot of people don't want push button start so it's good that it's optional.

The SE is not the base model...its the mid trim level...the dealership I bought my Fusion from had a great deal of 14 and 15 S models available...and when an SE is equipped like mine is (MSRP of $30,555) its almost as loaded as a Titanium. Perhaps Ford should have kept the SEL models around or something but for the pricing, Push button start should have been in the cards. It's an available option on SE models, but you gotta get saddled with the automatic transmission to get it. It would have been a nice "gee-wiz" option but I can live without it. My Mustang will have it when I get it No worries.

Nissan and Chrysler make it standard on all their cars. Its available on mid trim Sonatas, Accord and Camrys.

I've been on these boards for YEARS...I remember back in the days when the discussions used to get heated on here lol. Started out lusting over the 2000 Maxima, ended up getting a 2005 Altima for high school graduation, traded it for my 07 Accord, which got traded for the Fusion.

Funny thing is, back then all I'd consider where Accords, Camrys, Passats and Altimas. Now, at the ripe ole age of 28, three of those cars I would never consider, one I would have bought if it had been available in the combination I wanted (I'm looking at you Accord) and now I'm driving a Ford. Never thought I'd see the day where I'd purchase a Fusion...I could have never said that about the Taurus from way back in those days.

I'm loving this car so far.

Midsize Sedans 2.0

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