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Acura MDX (pre-2007)
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While their mainstream sedans did well, MB and BMW SUVs did not make a strong showing. The MB M-Class and the BMW X5, both high performers in our tests, dragged down the reliability average for both makes..." Consumer Reports Auto Issue, April 2002, page 76.
In the same issue (page 77) can be found the reliability ratings for five (5) Acura models; all are rated excellent. Page 89 has the reports on five (5) VW models; judge for yourself.
CR receives reliability stats from 500,000 car owner/subscribers every year; IMHO, it's a pretty good survey.
So the newer Passats are getting more reliable; that's good. But the 2002 CR survey shows that overall, vehicles from Japan are more reliable and less expensive to maintain and fix than their European counterparts. And I agree with you that European cars have a different feel to them that appeals to many drivers.
but under the assumption that brand is just as important as the capabilities and value, i don't see why vw won't steal sale from acura/honda. if reliability is only factor of people's choice, there wouldn't be an TL and accord. everyone would drive a civic or camry, but in reality some people would rather go for a jetta (although, it's a size of a corolla but price of a camry) or golf for the style and brand..... so coming back to the point, i do think MDX prices will come down due wider choice of crossover SUV
You said it yourself..."Japanese is always far better than the others." It's not in the least bit true, but it is what many people believe.
VW's tend to appeal to younger, performance oriented drivers who appreciate germanic "feel" and styling. VW's as a whole are better "driver cars" than Honda's/Acura's. They have "tighter" handling, higher quality (Audi) cockpits, and offer a more visceral driving experience...at a relative bargain price.
Acura's (with the exception of the RSX), are near-luxury cars that offer a balance between comfort and performance...but lean towards comfort. They also offer outstanding resale value and above average quality and reliability.
Reality doesn't matter...perception rules in the market. Most consumers don't consider VW and Acura to be in the same class. In my opinion, neither the Touareg nor the Phaeton will "elevate" VW to Acura status (which sits somewhere below Lexus and M-B, yet above Honda and Toyota).
The Touareg will certainly appeal to folks looking for a German-driving vehicle with some true off-road capability, as well as a touch of near-luxury without paying for a BMW or MB. The VW will also have excellent safety equipment and should do very well in crash tests. Towing should be a strength. The engine choices are interesting, but I doubt if the TDI will make it to the U.S.
However, the Touareg has some serious limitations that may put off some buyers, including ones looking at a Pilot or MDX. According to Edmunds and vwvortex info, it'll have only 19.6 cubic feet in the rear and 55.4 with the second row folded down! That's significantly less space than a Subaru Forester, and it's actually less cargo room than a Passat wagon!
VW quality has improved, especially for the Passat. Still, the Passat is a notch below its Toyota and Honda competitors in terms of quality/reliability (e.g. Consumer Reports). And I wouldn't recommend a first-year VW SUV. The second or third year might not be bad, however. The Jettas haven't done too well in quality, mostly because the U.S.-bound sedans are assembled at the Mexico plant, while the Jetta wagons assembled in the VW plants in Germany seem to have better quality.
Meanwhile, the MDX isn't perfect, but its quality/reliability numbers have been coming in above-average (JD Power and Consumer Reports).
So no, I don't think the Touareg will significantly hurt MDX sales. I think a redesigned RX300 (2004 model?) and a redesigned ML320 (2005 model?) would do a lot more damage. Especially if Acura doesn't provide significant updates to the MDX by the 2004 model year. Another possible threat is the Volvo XC90, which looks like a terrific vehicle, but I'm concerned what it's actual, optioned-out price will be, along with its quality and maintenance costs.
What kinda name is that?
Can't hardly compete with "MDX" and "RX300" for poetic flow, now can it?
All-in-all, a very appealing vehicle. However, the leather seats were FIRM. Not just German-car-firm, but just plain rock-hard to our aging bodies (the cloth in a co-worker's Passat Wagon -- non-4motion, is even harder!). That and the bolsters ended up pinching my wife's shoulder blades and hurt her back after driving it for forty minutes. Interestingly enough, CR's review of the Passat that year also mentioned that, while the seats were generally comfortable, some drivers experienced pressure points in their backs!
However, that was a 2000 model we drove, and I understand that the seats were somewhat modified with the 2001.5 model refresh.
Thus, it was ruled out, along with a number of other vehicles, before we bought the MDX in early October 2000 (it was the first unit our dealer delivered to a customer).
Color additions, Sage Green and something else, not known yet.
Package Changes: No Base level vehicle with navigation and Rear Entertainment becomes an options on all models.
Other standard & optional equipment differences still aren't known yet.
I should know more soon.
Jamie S.
I heard that they are dropping that beige color.
Will
The 3.8l upgrade hasn't been disclosed as of yet. With all the information leaks online, I'd be suprised if it wasn't true.
You'll know when I know.
Jamie S.
You sound like you know what you're talking about, so I'm concerned about the report of no navigation on the base MDX. I have a 2003 base with navigation on order. If I have to order a touring to get navigation, it's a deal breaker for me. PLEASE, SAY IT AIN'T SO!
Also waiting for anything you have on new features for 2003. I've heard 3.8, on-star & high intensity headlights. Does anybody really know what's happening for 2003.
HELP!
Bob
I see what you saying about the Website. I'd have to guess that the site is wrong. Nothing I've heard indicates they'd switch to a 4-Speed setup. I'll know for certain once the ordering information is updated for 2003. Acura will either have it coded as a 4A or 5A. That could happen anytime.
vincentj:
I hate to be the one to tell you its so, but it appears to be. There are basically 5 models of the MDX coming for 2003...
1. Base
2. Touring
3. Touring with Entertainment System
4. Touring with Navigation
5. Touring with Navigation & Entertainment System
Pricing hasn't been released, but these are the various models showing as available for order. I don't have any details on other features changes or additions. I'll let you know when I have more details. If you have to have a Base with navigatoin, I'd suggest getting a September 2002 production model. Even though Dealers have placed 2002 orders with the factory already, the orders can be modified at this time.
rudy331:
You're welcome. I'm glad the information has been helpful. I'm in Chapel Hill, NC. Here's the Exterior / Interiors Avialable for 2003:
Exterior:
Taffeta White
Havasu Blue
Nighthawk Black
Redrock Pearl
Starlight Silver
Sandstone
Sage Bruch
Midnight Blue
Interior:
Saddle
Quartz (Yes, you're guess was right ie. Gray)
Ebony
The only thing I don't have details on is what interior/exterior match ups will be.
The only things I am certain of for 2003 production are the following are:
1. That they are building 2003 models
2. Production begins "sometime in October"
If you have ordered a 2003 model for the first Month's allocation, you will know prior to October EXACTLY when your MDX will be built. Your salesperson should have access to this information.
Sorry for the lenght of the post, but there were alot of questions to answer.
Let me know If I can be of help.
Jamie S.
So, I drove an MDX today and I love it. Real similar to the TL in lots of ways re: dashboard and other components. Figured that I'd check in with Edmunds forums again, haven't done this in a couple of years!
Thanks for the 2003 model year info. Please post the interior/exterior match-ups when you can. I've read about the larger engine. Any other improvements for 2003?
wjk
And HID lights....yes they look cool...but when your driving you can't see how cool they look. How did we ever drive before with regular headlights? The 03 model will likely offer them.
The MDX's stock headlights are no better than average. You can get a noticeably better result if you switch to a good aftermarket bulb. Folks seem to be having the most success with Sylvania Silverstars. Re-aiming the headlights may be necessary.
My local Acura dealer does not know of any color changes, increasing engine size, different headlights, etc. So, I might just "choose" Sage Brush even though its "not available for the MDX" with a good secondary color choice as a backup.
Anyone else tried ordering a color that is "not available?
Dealers select the models/colors in hopes of having the 'desirable combinations' on their lot. If a potential customer comes into a Honda store looking for some combination that is not on that particular dealer's lot, the salesperson has ability to search other dealers for an available vehicle.
In the case of MDX/Pilot and other "high demand" vehicles MOST dealers won't part with ANY stock. They have a high probability of selling all units they are alloted.
Given the relatvely low number of color/equipment/trim level options the best strategy may be to visit/contact a large number of dealers.
As to making color requests before production starts, it is also wise to consider that the Pilot/MDX plant does produce vehicles in 'batches' by color, which leads to deliveries to dealers in 'cluster of colors' -- deliveries of first week on month may be black & red, second week white and blue, third week silver and green et cetera.
There have been delays in the actual production of certain colors, and this may alos affect your decision to 'pre-select' a particular color...
It seems AHMC uses the 'overseas production/delivery' thinking even for vehicles built in North America. The best strategy is to be flexible and be prepared to shop & wait.
Good Luck!
In the dfw area, there are too many tail-gaters/ aggressive drivers with cellphone on their hand and a lots of them are driving big vechicles. The suv/minivan accidents (kills all but one occupants) over the weekend @I20 just makes me think twice...
thanks.
The handling of the MDX is very good. It is much more like a sedan than a "truck". Like many vehicles, the MDX has ABS standard, and its 4WD system is standard in all models.
HOWEVER, the MDX is not a 'miracle machine'-- it has a weight bias toward the front end, and its brakes are not those of a sports car. There are limits to any vehicle design...
If you want to pay more you could get a some other vehicle that is even more crash resistant, and perhaps one that is even better in emergency handling, but you'd be paying more and probably getting less.
The features of the MDX (& Pilot) must be assessed as a 'marketplace compromise' -- and as such there are few (?no) vehicles that offer the utility, efficiency, luxury, safety, reliability and value.
Good Luck!
Their's is "lift off the gas pedal around 40 mph." (which is possibly torque converter lock-up disengagement) YOURS seems as though it may be related to VTM, as it goes away at "20mpg but above that I do not experience it"...
What is your mileage?
Has your VTM been serviced?
This could be a minor problem with the VTM fluid, and even if not, it will be under warranty-- GET TO DEALER ASAP!
According to Consumer Reports, the MDX's emergency handling is roughly average for an SUV (CR scores emergency handling across all vehicle types -- most SUV's garner a "below average," as did the MDX). They did notice some fishtailing, again due to the front-end weight bias, and the lack of stability control.
Sorry to have been away for a few days. I actually spent some time driving back and forth to Philly in my own MDX.
Angelica2:
I actually wish that they would allow for a medium to dark interior with the white as well. I just prefer more exterior / interior contrast. I'll be letting everyone know the exact combinations just as soon as I can verify them. I don't like to guess because I want the information I offer everyone here to be accurate. Correct, there is not supposed to be a Base Trim level, with navigation or entertainment system, for 2003. I can't imagine that you'd see the Perforated Seating look disappear at this point. I'll post more details once I have them.
Rerenov8r:
It is actually easier to sell MDX custom ordered. All a dealer has to do is take future production orders against their factory allocation. Lets say a dealer has 55 clients with MDX orders and they normally receive 15 MDX's on their monthly production allocation. (A 3-4 Month wait time) When they get their next allocation of MDX's for production, they simply specify each MDX to be built exactly as it was orderd by the client. You really just go one at a time down the order list. Occasionally, extras can become avialable to the dealer that they have no control over. In this case, dealers usually just sell the MDX to the first client that wants it.
Trim Level and Color combinations on MDX's are actually built several times during the production month, not just once per month. This is why two clients ordering the same trim and color for production in a particular month can actually have their MDX's built at different times.
I've never seen a delay in order times because of a color selection. Acura will literally build the MDX's ordered exactly as requested. I could just as easily request 15 White with Saddle Touring editions as 1. They'll fill the orders regardless. I often have 8 or more Silver / Ebony Touring with Navigation MDX's ordered for just one month. That's what's most popular in my area. The only exception is when a color will no longer exist, such as Deep Mahogany Pearl. When this happens, dealers are told several Months ahead of time to allow for existing clients orders to be filled and to alert new clients that cerain colors are no longer going to be available. This enevitably causes some people to search everywhere for a dealer that has their particular color combination still available.
Ruddy331:
You're very welcome. I don't know why so many clients have trouble with salespeople on MDX's. People love the vehicles and the salespeople are compensated after all. Ordering and taking delivery of an MDX should be a great experience for everyone. Its my opinion that too many salespeople and dearerships rely on the strenght of the vehicle and its popularity rather than focusing on the client. I guess some salespeople mistakenly assume the vehicle is so great that they don't have to actually do any work.
You should be able to find out about your Quartz interior soon. No dealers have received their color sharts for 2003 MDX's as of yet. Tomorrow is the allocation for the 2003 RL, 2003 RSX and continuing allocation of the 2003 CL & TL. I'll keep you posted.
Jamie S.
Thanks from all of us.
Did it differ from dealer to dealer?
Is it worth it?
Have anyone brought it?
THe MDX is essentially the same car as the Odys but I wonder if the experience is better?
Just on a fact finding mission.
i wanted a pilot for my 50-60 minute drive to work everyday. my 97 dodge stratus es is a good car but when you start spending so much time behind the wheel everyday, you begin to want more comfort. these days it seems like everyone drives a truck, van, or suv. you get stuck behind them and you can't see anything.
i walked into the acura dealer near my house with little more than curiousity. they had a silver with navigation like my van. there were two people ahead of me test driving the mdx. i patiently waited and once i got behind the wheel and drove it, it was love at first drive.
they wanted 3k premium. i said no way. i told them i wanted that one that I test drove. silver with nav. base. salesmanager said how much. i said msrp. he said 2k plus msrp. i said msrp. he said 1k plus msrp. i thought about it. it had navigation and it was silver. both things i wanted. instant gratification won out and i said you have a deal. he gave me wheel locks, roof rack, and sidesteps for $900. I know I was overpaying on those items but it was late already and i was getting tired, so I got him down to $900 from $1500 and called it a night.
next day i went back and as i was waiting for the finance guy to do the paperwork i started talking to the salesguy. nice young kid. he was telling me that after he sold me the mdx he sold the floor demo to a couple for 3k premium and on top of that the demo had tons of upgrades at inflated prices. he told me that their commissions are caped so the premium is pure profit for the dealership.
i have to say this suv is deceptively large. it doesn't look it, but in the garage next to my ody you see how big it is. it's taller and almost as long. when behind the wheel the rx300 looks small. i just love my mdx!!!!!
Same goes for prices on DIO, though I suspect a 2002 rear deflector should fit a 2003.
I think that the combination you want will be available (Touring/Navi Havasu Blue/Ebony) BUT there is no guarantee it will.
I hope everything works out fine for you, and hope you will report back here with good news, but I'm wondering what sort of recourse/back-up plan you have in place?
Further, based on the fine information from jamiestockman it seems likely that the factory allocates perhaps 4 vehicles per week to a moderately busy dealer, did the other dealers indicate that your Decemeber delivery was based on them ALREADY having 30 pre-orders each? DO they also have $30,000 is "non-refundable" deposits?? Seems very high...
Sorry to have missed your question about 2003 Brochures. No, they're not avialable yet. I've tried as recently as yesterday to order them, but the distribution company Acura uses doesn't have them yet. Typically, dealers receive a sample copy about the time they have to submit an allocation order for a new model year run. I'd quess that will be in a few weeks. I'll let you know.
vcolangelo:
I don't know why your dealer isn't better informed. I'll be letting everyone know the exact combinations when they are known. At this point, it seems the odds are in favor of everyone seeing a 260hp MDX for '03. I'll post a complete of changes once I have them in writing. I just completed the most recent Acura allocation, but 2003 MDX's weren't on it. There was a notation on the order by Acura stating that 2003 MDX's will appear on the next order allocation. I'd assume that will not be for a few weeks.
I'll be posting everything here once it can be confirmed. I hope everyone enjoys the weekend.
Jamie S.
BTW, did you previously test drive the Pilot or were you just assuming the Pilot wouldn't drive as nice as the MDX?
They offered me the Acura Extended Warranty for $1,800. Any comments or suggestions on the price and/or the necessity? I'd appreciate your input, because I hope this is a long term vehicle (that's what my wife has said about each of our last 3 cars).
Of course, if Honda/Acura all of a sudden raises warranty prices within those 24 mos...all bets are off. Unlikely.
I recently helped a friend buy a new Odyssey at sticker and we also shopped for Honda's factory 7-yr, 100k mile, $0 deductible extended warranty. While the list was around $1500 or so, she got it for $865 from a Honda dealer in a different state.
I'm sure some of the MDX owners here can give you a contact for a discounted warranty.
Good luck!
i test drove the pilot and it drove well but it felt like driving my van to me. the mdx feels nimble. it seems to accelerate better and the brakes feel more responsive.
i would have been happy with the pilot but since i test drove the mdx and it was available right there on the spot with navigation and a color that i liked, instant gratification took over.
So who do we have left to come to the PARTY...Let's see there is Nissan, VW, Porsche, Kia, Lexus, and Volvo.
http://makeashorterlink.com/?J3FB23061
IBM to Enable Honda Drivers to Talk to Cars
Mon Jul 29,12:10 AM ET
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Can't find a restaurant? Running out of gas? Down to your last dollar?
Tell it to the car.
International Business Machines Corp. said on Monday it signed a deal with Honda Motor Corp. that will make it easier for drivers to find the closest gas station or restaurant by asking the car's computer for help.
IBM said Honda will offer in its 2003 Accord models, for sale in September, a navigation system that is integrated with voice recognition software and a small touch screen.
The voice recognition system works by touching a button on the steering wheel and then speaking aloud. The software then responds, using the car's audio system to give driving directions.
The voice recognition software, based on IBM's ViaVoice product, understands different speech accents and has a larger vocabulary, according to IBM director of automotive and telematics solutions Raj Desai.
"It's closer to the natural ability to have a dialogue, rather than just remembering key words, which is what the previous generation systems had," Desai said.
Companies including DaimlerChrysler AG have been building cars with voice recognition and other wireless communications-based services for years but it was still not clear if there is a market for the technology, called telematics.
Ford Motor Corp., for instance, pulled the plug on its 18-month-old telematics venture Wingcast in June.
General Motors Corp. has the largest telecommunications service system, called OnStar.
IBM said price information on the system was not available.
--------------------------------
If this is true for 2003 accord, should we expect the same for 2003 MDX?
KC
Nighthawk Black Metallic: Ebony or Saddle
White: Saddle or Quartz
Sandstone Metallic: Saddle
Sagebrush: Quartz
Mightnight Blue: Saddle
Redrock: Saddle
Starlight Silver: Ebony
Havasau Blue: Ebony
Hope this helps...
Jamie S.
Tell us more! Tell us more!