Isuzu Trooper

ramblinon · February 2002

I was completely satisfied with my 01 Limited until I saw the ARB bumper and wench set-up. I now have the Compass Photo set as my wallpaper on the puter. And, the full length roof rack who can live without that

. And the Snorkel and the lights. Until recently I had never heard of OME and the rest of the "tricks". While I may not do these mods I am like a kid in a candy store and I love it.

paisan · February 2002

You can get a similar setup from ECB, except ECB stuff is made from aluminum alloy so it's 3/5 the weight. Feel free to ask questions about cheap mods and upgrades! Like the polybushing stuff costs $20 and about 1.5hrs of time. Shocks and OME springs are a pretty cheap upgrade as well.

-mike

sponzinn · February 2002

I reported last week that I was having driveshaft problems on my 99 Trooper and have had a driveshaft yoke on backorder since December 31, 2001.

Unfortunately, I was informed by Isuzu Owner Relations that the part which was to be release from their vendor in early February will not be released until March 14 (plus shipping time).

I must say this is the sorriest excuse for a company's ability to effectively deal with customers and warranty work in a reasonable timeframe I have ever experienced. It will take 3 months (that is if they're telling me the truth) to get a simple part for a newer vehicle.

I'm glad I'm not stranded in the sahara.

Has anyone out there ever encounter a similar problem? And if so, did Isuzu make any options available to you to get back on the road?

paisan · February 2002

A lot of times it has to do with the dealer itself and not Isuzu. Also try calling the district rep as well.

-mike

bluedevils · February 2002

In Michigan, my recent 6-month auto insurance bill (95 Ford Contour & 98 Isuzu Trooper) seemed about $75 higher than normal. Most of the increase was shown in the Contour.

I asked my Allstate rep about it and he said there was some sort of statewide increase related to the state's catastrophic fund being a little short on funds. I think he said it should be about $75 a year for each vehicle. He also said that it's hard to tell where the actuaries come up with these numbers.

Perhaps something similar happened in North Carolina?

A couple years ago, we actually got a decent-sized refund from Allstate. Apparently the state's catastrophic fund had grown pretty large and they decided to refund money for each vehicle that was insured as of a certain date. Of course, that just happened to be an election year

keepontroopin · February 2002

If I were you I would go to the nearest Junk Yard and get the part directly from them and then have them reimburse you!

jayboreed · February 2002

My Grandparents had a Countour. He was a Ford man and retired Mechanic. Not until after his death did we find out all of the problems he had had with the Countour. Turns out the local dealership new him by name as he always got involved when something was wrong. Bugged the crap out of the mechanics at ford I am sure. Anyway, It had the steering column replaced, gas tank replaced, AC Expansion valve, Radiator and a host of many other things. At 17,000 miles the transimission went out. It was passed the 36 month warranty period by about 2 months. Ford's hand had to be twisted to get the tranny replaced. Once it was replaced, we sold the car, got my Grandma a honda and that honda hates to be noticed because it is a 98 model and has not had one problem. I'm glad my Grandpa was not their to see us get my grandma a honda, but he would probably feel better knowing she's driving a reliable vehicle. Now is it the Countour or the Trooper. Can't beat reliability. My time is valuble and I, my father, and my Grandpa(although I'm sure he sort of enjoyed it as an ex-mechanic) spent a lot of time keeping it going. I would go with the Trooper. Our family has two, and not one singel problem. -JR

tkevinblanc · February 2002

Has anyone installed a trailer hitch on their Trooper? I'm going to purchase a 5x8 stakeside trailer to haul crap around. I want a 2 inch box receiver style hitch. The trailer is rated for #2500 (sitting on a #3500 axle).

Anyway, the guy at the trailer place says $200 for a Draw-Tite and $150 for installation and wiring. Seems like a job I can do myself...

Any suggestions for on-line sources? The wiring on the trailer is four prongs on a flat plug... the trailer guy says I'll need some converter to make the lights work correctly.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

paisan · February 2002

I installed the hidden hitch for about $135 + $25 for the wiring harness. The wiring harness takes 1.5minutes if you are real slow. I'm not mechanically inclined but was able to put the hitch on w/o issue. Check http://isuzu-suvs.com in the vendor section for a link to a place to get the hitch. I believe JC whitney also sells it. I've towed up to 5500 lbs with it on the trooper.

-mike

bluedevils · February 2002

I just saw an Isuzu ad in today's USA Today. It said 0% APR up to 60 months on all Isuzus, from Feb. 14-19 only.

This makes for a great opportunity to get a Trooper! If you are lurking on this board and considering the purchase of a Trooper, now would be a great time to make the move.

flyinlow · February 2002

Based on previous advice on this board I just got a Hidden Hitch from Automotive Accessories Connection. They had the parts drop shipped from HH directly to me. The hitch for 92-up Troopers is part #87544 ($139.95) and the T connector is #38817 ($29.95) plus $5.90 shipping total. It looks great and appears to come with all parts. The T connector is for the 5 pin standard, I think, so it may not be right for your trailer. I plan to put it on tomorrow and will let you know how it turns out. I ordered by phone (888)425-2885 on 2/11 and it arrived 2/14.

basketballkid · February 2002

Although, I'd be the first to admit that Troopers depreciate rather quickly...two things to consider are:
-because of low financing incentives, sales of new vehicles are way up, creating a glut of used cars out there. prices are more competitive for all sorts of used vehicles, not just the trooper.
-the public's infatuation with car-like suv's is depressing the price of all truck based products, not just the trooper.

jim112 · February 2002

I recently noticed a change when my '99 Trooper shifts into the highest gear (overdrive?). The vehicle has 20,500 miles and has been "babied" - no towing, no off-road, etc.. I now notice a slight hesitation when the trans shifts; with the hesitation, the tach also fluctuates momentarily (drops from about 2500 back to 2000, then briefly goes back up 300-500 rpm before settling at about 2000)

I also notice when reapplying the throttle, after decelerating on level ground, the engine rpms immediately go up to a level 300-400 rpms above where it settles one second later.

I took the vehicle to the local Isuzu dealer. They determined it to be low of trans fluid and stated they added one quart. At that time I asked if the trans needed service and was told no need until 30,000 (I was also told this at the same dealership in Oct of 2000).

The symptoms did not change and I returned the vehicle one week and 250 miles later. I was told the computer failed to find a problem, running one quart low of fluid should not cause a problem, the symptom was not duplicated on test drive, and I would need complete trans service to the tune of $250 as recommended in the Owner's Manual for "severe duty use" "as a starting point." This is a bit inconsistent with my Manual; it is also interesting that the Service Manager asked no questions about my driving habits but said the "severe" duty definition was written in such a way to include almost everyone. This, too, is inconsistent with my Owner's Manual and my Workshop Manual. Oh yes, I was charged a $30 diagnostic fee because the dealer could find no problem, therefore could not bill Isuzu.

The issue is complicated by the fact that this dealer filled the trans 18,000 miles ago, it has not been touched since then, and it is not leaking.

Could this be "normal" for this trans (I have not noticed it until now), what kind of damage would one expect if the fluid were low (1 or more quarts), and where should I go from here?

Thanx for your help...

jim

breakor · February 2002

I really don't know much about ATs but it sounds like your torque converter may be slipping. I don't remember any other owner reporting such symptoms. IIRC a few people have noticed leaks that were solved by tightening the plug(s) or replacing the plug gaskets. It almost seems like the dealer never filled it correctly 18k mis ago and this wore the fluid out prematurely. In any event it sure sounds like the dealer is giving you the run around.

If this happened out of the blue after my warranty ran out I would do a flush now and go back with synthetic to see if that would solve the problem.

Given that you have the dealer already involved for some time I suggest you stress the fact that you have never done severe duty. That the book IIRC doesn't require you to even check the level (at least before 30k mis). That the level was low through no fault of yours for up to 18k mis since you saw no signs of leaking. If this made the service severe duty then that is Isuzu's fault for having a leaky design with no level check requirement and/or the dealer's fault for underfilling. In either case, it should be fixed at no cost to you WHATEVER THAT TAKES.

I would try another Isuzu dealer if at all possible to get a second opinion and maybe much better service. You could also try an AT shop to get their take on the condition and harm from running 1 qt low for maybe up to 18k mis. In either case I suggest you initially only tell them your symptoms and then let them do their diagnosis. Afterwards you can give them "the rest of the story" and see if that changes/reinforces their assessment. The AT shop report could then be used as leverage against the present dealer.

Good luck.

flyinlow · February 2002

Kevin, I got the Hidden Hitch installed on our 02 LS tonight. I am the most deliberate person you'll ever meet when it comes to doing something the first time (read "slow") and it took me about 90 minutes. The biggest problem is that the directions are somewhat confusing, because apparently some Troopers require you to drill two holes for the hitch. Mine didn't, as all the necessary holes with studs were present and HH's bolts fit perfectly. It took me a while to figure out which were the 12 mm bolts and which were 1/2" (only used the 12 and 10 mm bolts they supplied). I did have to shim one of the places with a washer (supplied), and had to remove a small hook bracket on the driver's side rearmost hole that wasn't mentioned in the directions. Also, for some reason the lock washer for the forward driver's side hole bent and separated before I reached the specified torque. I removed it and started again with an extra washer and the same thing started to happen, so I just stopped before reaching full torque. I think it will be OK.

Also, the wiring connector from HH has 5 pins to connect to the Trooper plug but ends in 4 pins at the trailer connector: 3/1.

flyinlow · February 2002

Who can tell me the correct torque for installing the engine oil drain bolt? I did the truck's first oil change today at 1,150 miles and found that, for some idiotic reason, Isuzu did not list the torque in the 2002 owner's manual. They did list the torque for the oil filter, which is redundant since they also say to tighten it 7/8 turn past where it seats, and they even mark the filters 1 through 8 on the circumference so you can easily count as you tighten. Why no drain plug torque spec?

I just tightened it to 24 lbs-ft and hope that will be OK until I get the real number from one of you guys. My Maxima needs 22 lbs-ft and it's a smaller bolt.

By the way, my first experience with my dealer's service dep't wasn't good. I called today to ask the question above and the "service manager" who answered said there's not a torque spec for that bolt. Right!! How many of us have had our bolts stripped at quick-oil-change places or even dealers where they use air wrenches? When I told him I knew better, his lame reply is that the Isuzu mechanics only work every other Saturday and this was their off day. Funny, the guy who sold us the car said they have full Isuzu service every Saturday, not just checkups and lubes.

breakor · February 2002

58ft-lbs is the number listed in the service manuals for the 1999. I guess 2002 is the same.

FWIW my experience is that no dealer ever gives out such "top secret" information. They want you to pay them for service. If they tell you how to do it yourself then that is one less job they get paid to do. Also, in Isuzu's defense only so much information can fit in the owner's manual in the glove box. In fact the service manuals fill up 3 large 3-ring notebooks.

bluedevils · February 2002

I've got a copy of the 1998 Trooper workshop manual page that includes the engine oil drain plug torque spec. It lists 58 ft-lbs. I'm guessing the spec is the same from 1998 model year through current, and possibly the same as far back as the 1992 model year.

bluedevils · February 2002

Three days ago we bought a new 2002 Kia Sedona minivan. Anyway, the factory workshop manual is available from Helm for only 59 bucks! I couldn't believe it was this low, since the current Trooper manual costs well over $100. Helm seems to drop the price of the Trooper manuals gradually as the manual gets older. But even the 1998 manual still costs $90, IIRC. I've been meaning to buy one for our '98 Troop but just haven't gotten around to it b/c the $90 cost is hard to swallow.

I was surprised that the Trooper manuals are so much more expensive than the Sedona manual. I can't think of any good reason why.

flyinlow · February 2002

Thanks for the advice, guys. I would have been afraid to put 58 ft-lbs on it without knowing.

Bluedevils, if it makes you feel any better, the manual for a 2000 Maxima is $275 plus shipping (3 volumes). Can you guess why I haven't bought it, yet?

bsmart1 · February 2002

I work in a business that uses a lot of acronyms and I see several used on this board. But, I still have not figured out the one you use quite often. What is this IIRC you refer to?
Oh yeah, exhaust system buzzing, rattle is FIXED!!
It required the replacement of the muffler. By the way, if you guys think manuals are expensive for these vehicles, try pricing a muffler at over $400 from St. Charles ISUZU!! Yes thats right, more than $400. I had to go with an OR (original replacement) couldn't swallow the Isuzu price. There is some difference though. The replacement has more of a throaty sound to it, not quite a quiet as the original during acceleration. I'll be watching mileage to see if there's any change that could have been due to back pressure in the muffler that was rattling.
Happy Trooping !!!

paisan · February 2002

If I Recall Correctly.

-mike

bluedevils · February 2002

I didn't start using this until I saw paisan using it pretty frequently! Once I saw someone else using IIRC, I figured it must be widely known and safe to use without explanation.

gtroop · February 2002

I was just thinking on the way back from lunch today that I need to find out what that means. I'm glad someone asked too...

gpm5 · February 2002

I never tighten the drain plug or filter too tight--tight enough not to leak. They always seem to be tighter when you go to remove them, in my experience. Usually people with buggered up drain plugs have them very tight, and then they bugger then up when they can't get them back off.

tkevinblanc · February 2002

Thanks for the hitch info. I ordered from Automotive Accessories Connection today.

Thanks again for the advice. Paisan, did you have to do any drilling on your 98 to get it installed?

paisan · February 2002

I didn't have to drill anything on the 2000, just remove the tow-hook and the tied down hole, I moved the tow hook to the front of mine.

-mike

viktoria_r · February 2002

Well, since CEL never went away completely (after 3 visits to 2 dealers - first was out-of-town, diagnosed with 'random cylinder misfire', second and third -to our 'own' dealer, who could only "reset" the computer, but CEL came on again couple of days later). The CEL would start flashing, then dissappear after driving a while, then start flashing again.
So now our 00 Trooper with 27K mi is in the shop again. This time the CEL came on and stayed on so that my husband could drive it to the dealer and actiually show them what is happening.

BTW, all these CEL's are AFTER having engine head(?) replaced due to casting defects in 2 of the cylinders (had it towed because it stalled and overheated - all coolant disappered thru the cracks in the cylinders)... Now they are telling us that one of the cylinders is firing two times slower then the others. I do not know what to believe any more. I don't want to bring up the dreaded "L"-word, but IMHO this is what our truck is.
My husband will insist on total engine replacement, but I am not sure if he'll succeed. He's driving a loaner Altima and is seriously thinking about getting one instead of our troublesome truck. This is an indicator of how pissed he is at this whole thing. Also, there were rusted rotors, rusted exhaust (replaced under warranty), and "completely bad" front brakes (dealer mechanic never mentioned any sign of trouble doing regular service) - repaired out of our pocket.
I read these forums and it seems that I have more problems than everyone else combined...

paisan · February 2002

First you aren't going to collect on any Lemon Law policy you are well over the 12K limit in most states. My guess is that there is a problem with the ECU or something they didn't re-connect after the engine re-placement. Insisting on a new engine isn't going to fix a mis-fire cause that is computer controlled! It does seem like you have more problems than anyone else on here or other Isuzu boards

-mike

viktoria_r · February 2002

I am only afraid that since the engine overheated before, it might have sustained internal damage of some sort. that's why i'd prefer having it replaced.
this is the 2nd time the truck is out of comission for more than a week. Seriously, if i wasn't upside-down on my loan , i would have gotten rid of the darn thing.

paisan · February 2002

was that before or after the block replacement? seems like if it is firing too often it is a ECU problem not an engine problem. You may have gotten a "bad apple" that does happen in manufacturing. It does seem like you have a lot of unrelated problems though which is strange.

-mike

keepontroopin · February 2002

Sounds like you need to take that Bad Apple and squash it. If I was having the problems you are having I would "accidentaly" total my vehicle and collect whatever insurance I could get. The loss would be better than the headaches from taking it to the shop all the time. Just so you know, I am on my fourth Isuzu and i have never had a problem with any of them.

flyinlow · February 2002

Viktoria, you and your husband need to keep pushing until Isuzu makes it right. Go on up from the zone manager if you have to. It will help to document everything that has happened and how many days it has been out of service etc., and send this info and your complaint in writing to an Isuzu exec.

The reason we have a 2002 Trooper LS is because a certain American car company recently bought back our three year old sport ute with 30K miles. We didn't even buy it new: it had 12K when we bought it. Can't give details because we had to sign an agreement before they would give us the check, but the check was for our total purchase price including tax, less $0.12/mile. We bought the Troop for barely more than the check they gave us. I just feel sorry for whoever ends up with the thing after it's auctioned.

breakor · February 2002

Sorry that you have had so many troubles. All those rusting problems makes it sound like maybe the vehicle was partially flooded at one time. I am assuming you bought it new and that Carfax would have no history for cars that were damaged before they were sold. Therefore, I have no idea how you could check this out.

As to your current situation, my take is that diagnosing the problem should be very quick for a qualified mechanic let alone a dealer. It is just a matter of starting with the codes and then doing some field work (e.g. inspecting the plugs, checking compression, checking for oil in the coolant, etc.). If they haven't found the problem by now it sounds to me like they may not know what they are doing or just putting you on the back burner.

Granted, it might need a new engine and they should give you one if thats what it takes to fix the problem and ALL the damage. However, until they can tell you the cause of the problem it seems premature to demand a new engine at this point.

Like the previous poster noted, get Isuzu involved. Make them document and explain every problem found and the fixes involved.

Lastly when they claim to be done, if you have any doubt that something was left unfixed I suggest you go directly to an independent shop. Pay them to do an engine diagnosis, including a compression and pressure bleed down test on all the cylinders. While this will cost you a few extra bucks it could be good insurance and/or peace of mind. Or, it could find an unfixed problem and give you the leverage to get the dealer to do the right thing.

cmuniz · February 2002

I agree with the post above that a flooded car may explain a lot of those seemingly unrelated problems. If the dealer sold it kowing that, I would think that would strengthen your case against both Isuzu and the dealer. I would have someone independently check for signs of flooding. It should be easy to do.

cwmoser · February 2002

I've updated my spreadsheet which details the cost of ownership of a 1999 Trooper for the first 35,000 miles. It's at:

http://www.isuzu.8k.com/First-35k-miles.htm

I calculate that average fuel economy over 35k miles is at 17.1 mpg. I buy mostly the cheapest Sams or Cosco gasoline. Some other information I take from this data is that:

  - Maximum range was 367miles at 22.3 gallons

  - With the exception of the first fuelup, my Trooper has never given me less than 15mpg with the range consistantly between 15 and 18mpg.

  - Fuel economy jumped to over 18mpg in the Sept-Nov 2001 time frame. The odometer was almost 30,000 but was after an alignment where tires were rotated in an "X" pattern. But, about 2 months later, the fuel consumption fell back closer to its overall average consumption level. Be interesting to see what happens after the 30k service.

So far, an I will knock on wood, there has been no major repairs and my Trooper uses no oil. I'm using mostly Havoline oil but wonder what would the numbers be if I had used Synthetic oil.

Also, my Trooper had 20 miles on the odometer when I purchased it. I know at least 10 of those miles was me test driving it. Thus, I know it was never abused:-) It ran with the break in oil to 2,676 miles. I remember keeping the speed down below 60mph, no quick accelerations, and babying my Trooper the first 1,000 miles. After that first 1,000 miles, it regularly was driven 65-75mph while on the Interstate. My Trooper uses hardly any oil between oil changes which average just under 4,000 miles between oil changes. I do very little offroad driving. I do pull a 10' trailer occassionally carrying lumber, mulch, etc.

I think this data indicates that my Trooper is a pretty good example of Isuzu quality and I wonder if we can deduce a break in procedure that will cut down on later oil consumption and improved fuel economy.

bluedevils · February 2002

Excellent info.

One question: how did you manage to put 22.3 gallons in at one fillup?! Our fuel needle hits "E" and I have the guts to drive another 30-50 miles, but I get nervous about running out of gas. We rarely are able to put more than 20 gallons into our tank at one fillup, even though the stated capacity is 22.5 gallons.

dielectric7bb · February 2002

when does the gas light come on? I've run my '95 past E for 50 miles, and when I filled it up, I only put 19.25 gallons in it. I know when you're on E it's suppossed to have 3 gallons left, but when does the idiot light come on?

BTW: went on a road trip to Vegas on a whim this weekend. Didn't lose any money at the casinos

! Anyways, on my way out there from Flagstaff, I got 18.95 MPG. One of the best runs with my driving

paisan · February 2002

It's probably an early indicator, because outside the US fuel stations (like in AUS) may be much further apart than here in the states.

-mike

dielectric7bb · February 2002

I've never seen the fuel light come on that I can recall. But then again I haven't been looking for it until recently (5000 miles). The auto-foldin-mirror button light is out, but the defrost mirror light is still working. The hazard light button doesn't light up either. I know when I damaged the foldin button light, but I'm not sure if the hazard light button even lights up, since it's a red button and not of the norm. Does anyone know if the hazard light button lights up when the head lamps are turned on? 85k and 7 years, these are my main problems

hahaha

paisan · February 2002

I don't believe the hazard light lights up.

-mike

dielectric7bb · February 2002

I really only have one light damaged and one light that I have never seen

bstone3 · February 2002

Just complete a 1500 mile round trip. Trooper ran like a charm. Before leaving I had the altimeter/temperature module changed because of low barometric pressure reading - results the same. It just likes to read low. Also the check engine light was diagnosed as a TPS = throttle position sensor - was replaced.

I routinely run the Trooper until the fuel light comes on - and I set the trip indicator to zero and allow myself 40 miles. Exactly 2.5 gallons of fuel left when it comes on. Also the dealer service department told me that they quit installing luggage racks on the Trooper following the Consumers Report thing. Isuzu was taking no chances on a high center of gravity from on-top luggage contributing to a roll over. Interesting article on TV the other night about Consumer Reports criticizing the Trooper and now the new Montero. Didn't see all of it - but not one roll-over incident recorded on the Montero - and my insurance rate doesn't reflect any hazard associated with the Trooper - but regardless, a bad CR review is a death knoll. But you know what is crazy is that the Explorer which apparently passed CR testing rolls over with a vengence if you blow a tire - a rear one at that - go figure!

paisan · February 2002

Yep, no reports of Trooper rollovers in real life either. Ford probably donated to the CR "Rollover test fund"

Yep Isuzu stopped putting rack on US Troopers. YOu can get them everwhere else in the world though.

-mike

tkevinblanc · February 2002

Boy, I wish I could get 15 routinely. I get 12 or 13 tops, and maybe 17-18 on the highway. And I'm a gentle driver...

gpm5 · February 2002

She bought it used, but I am suprised the problems were not apparent from day 1. Maybe it was in a flood while hot. If left there for several days that could explain the warped heads, rusting etc.

cwmoser · February 2002

I set the trip odometer every time I refuel and with the low fuel light and the odometer, determine when its appropriate to refuel.

BTW, I've been using the cheapest low octane fuel I can find. I just got an email that fuel quality is an issue in the longetivity of a vehicle. In truth, how much impurities are in fuel anyway?

bluedevils · February 2002

Not sure what this even means. I don't think it equates to octane level, though.

I am convinced that the Trooper runs well, and will last long, on 87 octane. Is some brands' 87 octane better than others? Probably, but I've never really heard of a good study saying which brands were "better" and I don't even know what "better" is.

paisan · February 2002

I don't think it has to do with the brand per-say, but has to do with the station's tanks you fill up at. For instance Gaseteria stations generally have run-down systems and tanks that probably leak a bit. Those places are more likely to have "bad" fuel. I stick to well maintained high volume name brand (Mobil/Exxon/Sunoco/Shell/Hess/Amoco) fuels.

-mike

PS: I run exclusively on 87 in both my cars.

beer47 · February 2002

For some reason my 2k runs better on 89 octane than 87. On 87 I get pinging/tapping under acceleration and going up steep grades. My first 50k was on 87 but now only 89. I too try to stick with major brands when possible. Hey, Paisan did you ever run low on gas while on the "Belt Pkwy" and have to pay that pirate with the station in the middle median? I did once..hopefully never again!

Isuzu Trooper

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