Suzuki Grand Vitara vs Subaru Forester vs Hyundai Santa Fe vs Jeep Liberty vs Ford Escape vs Saturn

metrowmn · December 2004

Well, I wound up buying the Santa Fe last week (right before Ford announced ANOTHER recall on my 02 Escape!!). I have to say, I LOVE it so far! Got a great deal on a fully loaded LX 05 (Did my homework, believe me). I'd have to say, after driving the Escape for 2 and a half years it's nice to be in a car with such nice details (And since it's 12 degrees out today, the heated seats really are appreciated!). Allin all the ride is more "car-like" than the Ford/Mazda. I suppose if one get's stuck with a lemon there's not much that can be done. What bothered me the most was that no one at Ford (corporate or dealer) was willing to go the extra mile to help. I'd rather take my business elsewhere in that case and be done with it.

ateixeira · December 2004

They may be too big to be able to give that kind of individual attention. Hyundai has grown a lot, too, however.

-juice

p0926 · December 2004

From Detroit Free Press...

Ford recalls 262,113 Escape SUVs

December 28, 2004, 4:13 AM

DEARBORN, Mich. (AP) -- Ford Motor Co. is recalling 262,113 Ford Escape sport utility vehicles to repair a defect in the rear gate. The recall is the second of the vehicles this month.

Monday's recall covers 2001-2005 models whose rear lift gate could open during a crash, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said on its Web site.

In addition, 49,800 of Mazda Motor Corp.'s Tribute SUVs, similar to the Escape, were recalled for the same problem, the Detroit Free Press reported in a Tuesday story.

Earlier this month, Ford recalled 470,245 Escape SUVs from the 2002-2004 model years because of a possible accelerator problem that could result in elevated engine speeds.

Frank

stever · December 2004

Here you go Frank:

prlady1, "Talk to the Press" #849, 28 Dec 2004 12:57 pm

Steve, Host

ateixeira · December 2004

It's a shame, I thought for sure they'd put that kind of stuff behind them.

-juice

saxy · January 2005

Well I just went through the purchasing process you've outlined and I chose the Forester. I drove most every vehicle you mentioned. I didn't care for drive feel of the Santa Fe, and the Hyundai (KIA) Serrano, regardless of the fuel inefficient V6. It was like driving a big insensitive buggy to me. I've probably been spoiled by the handling of my old 13-year old Integra but the Subie does drive more like a car - something all the trucks and large SUVs like to advertise but fail miserably in delivering. In fact, I hate it when I see someone trying to drive one of those lumbering over-sized craft like a car.

Guess, I'm just not trying to impresss the Joneses or myself with an overdone interior 'cause I like the slightly Spartan clean lines of the Subie and the interior build to me is better than what I saw in the Hyundai. The only reason the are offering a 10-year warranty IMO is because their marketing and research is showing that no one is going to keep them that long - it's the old Midas Muffler life of your car deal - their marketing shows people get rid of their cars mor often than not. If people keep their Hyundais it could have made a big gamble. I've owned a couple of othe rSubies and I think the build is better ont he current models but if it starts falling a part at 70k I'll ditch it!

If you liek multiple recalls for glaring design defects then the Tribute/Escape is surely the way to go- they just recalled the 2003-2005 for rear hatches that pop open-- and when I researched the Vue which looks a lot like the Serrano and the Lexus it had a nasty roll-over warning from the Feds.

So I say drive 'em all and just get the one you like best. I foudn the hanbdling on the Hyundai's and the CRVs just too darn spongy, but then I've driven a sports sedan for a long time.

ezshift5 · January 2005

.....great phrase!

The Forester do appeal. It's hard to exercise restraint when the X is advertised at $18,998 (one at this price) ez

explorerx4 · January 2005

the strange thing about the rear hatch recall is that crosses all build years, but not all sold. what would be different from one to another? the throttle cable i can understand, since it most likely means all v6 models or all 4cyls.

both are probably the result of sqeezing the suppliers on cost, not a design flaw.

whichone · March 2005

Hi. We are buying a vehicle to replace our 1991 Geo Prizm which we have driven for 11 years.

Driving habits: 10% city driving: NYcity. Parked on street so some concerns about theft of Liberty exterior tire (is this silly? I do see Libertys street parked in my neighborhood.) Street parking makes size an issue - (small is good).

80% Interstate or Taconic Pkwy 280 miles round trip on every weekend (not quite as well plowed as an interstate but fairly clear)

9% Paved country State Routes

1% 100yd Dirt driveway with bumpy entrance to the hwy - plowed at 4 inches.

Also - I love my Prizm because it has taken a lickin' but kept on ticken' - have piled 2X4s on the roof rack and Ikea wardrobes - have filled the trunk with mulch and worse yet - 29 lb cement blocks when on a short term mispriced sale - have hauled kitchen cabinets and cement topping mix in trunk and back seat. Cementboard and drywall cut down and tied on were no big deal. Will use for normal stuff like Costco and Sams too.

Almost never have back seat passengers. Interior comfort as driver or shotgun are fine for both of us (we share the car).

Looking at a 2003 and 2004 6 cyl sport 4wd Liberty and 2004 XLS 4X4 6cyl Escape.

Pros and cons:

Escape: like car like drive of Escape - hate crappy styling - like that the spare is interior to the car - dissappointed that rear seats don't fold flat (which would be normal position for us).
Husband is disappointed that it doesn't have cruise control. Anyone ever carried something long with the tailgate down while driving?

Liberty: love styling, don't like road noise - concerned about rollovers (my husband can make wild maneuvers). Flat folding rear seats are nice - also - door handles seem sturdier - don't like that rear door side swings rather than folds down - so lugging longer items could be an issue.

Basically - I want an economy car that has a fantastic suspension so I can load it up with weight. Also - want decent handling on hwy and city. Doubt I'll be towing anything or offroading beyond my driveway - which I hope any suv would handle. I want to buy a vehicle I like enough and with good lasting power (won't rust out from road salt) and a good engine so I can beat the c__p out of it for 10 or more years.

Please give advice.

Thank you

snowman · March 2005

"dissappointed that rear seats don't fold flat (which would be normal position for us)"

Well, I think rear seats do fold flat in Escape/Tribute, at least on 04-05 models. I don't have experince on previous years.

ateixeira · March 2005

I'm sure cruise is an option, maybe shop around for a different model?

For your needs, I think an Escape is better suited. Nothing you do requires a low range, a full frame, so go with the more car-like unibody.

-juice

mtngal · March 2005

Both are excellent vehicles and both would suit your needs. Both have good things and bad things about them. Given your two choices, I would personally would opt for the Liberty because I find the seats in the Escape uncomfortable. I suffered for 4 years with a vehicle that had uncomfortable seats and I hope NEVER to do that again! That said, the last non-truck based vehicle I owned was probably 15 years ago, so the stiffer suspension of the Liberty wouldn't be an issue to me, and I didn't notice any difference between these 2 vehicles as far as road noise - both are quieter than my daily driver.

The best thing to do is take a long enough test drive (more than 5 minutes around the block) in both vehicles back to back, and then decide which one you prefer.

dc_driver · March 2005

My Mazda Tribute (Ford Escape near twin) has flat folding seats and cruise control..

If you do not like the exterior styling of the Escape you may want to look at a Tribute. I love the power and handling of my Tribute and it does have a more car like drive over the Liberty. Neither of these vehicles get great mpg, but the Tribute/Escape should do better than the Liberty.

ateixeira · March 2005

Mazda also has a longer warranty.

-juice

p0926 · March 2005

Any particular reason why you've narrowed you selection to these two options? There are other alternatives that would probably do a better job of meeting your requirements :-)

-Frank

ottawan · March 2005

>Almost never have back seat passengers
>Street parking makes size an issue - (small is
>good).

Have a look at Toyota RAV4 then, it could be more practical for you

>concerned about rollovers

Forester is the best in this area

ateixeira · March 2005

If the back seat isn't important, then sure, check out the RAV4 and Forester. You've just eliminated probably the biggest draw back of each of those.

-juice

bigeaux · March 2005

After test driving nine different vehciles from the list of seven above in the small SUV group, my wife and I had a few observations:

* We liked the driving experience with the Forrester the best of this group. It felt like a nimble, zippy little car compared to the others. We were split on second best. I thought the RAV4 was pretty good to drive, especially the brakes, but my wife was more comfortable in the Santa Fe. The CR-V wasn't bad to drive, but it was uninspiring, fairly vanilla. Same for the Element - ho hum. The Escape gave a comfy ride, but both of the Escapes we drove seemed to idle a little rough and had sloppy transmissions. Didn't try a Tribute. Is it different enough from the Escape to be worth a drive? The Hyundai Tucson, when equipped with a V6, can really accelerate. But the steering was uncertain.

* I'm barely 5'-10", but in the RAV4, Forrester, and Tucson, my knees were banging against the door and console. The Rav4 was especially bad with the window and doorlock controls mounted so low on the door.

* The Element is a quirky vehicle. We liked a lot of the features, but the lack of a center seat in back hurt, as did our doubts about resale value for something that could end up being a trendy footnote of car history. I guess time will tell.

* IMHO, the interior of the CR-V has the most sensible layout, hands-down. There's just oodles of little pockets and compartments, plus space on the floor between the front seats. Putting the CD stash where you can safely read the spines of the cases while driving is clever. I can see us on a road trip in a CR-V and having no trouble juggling cell phones, PDAs, CDs, maps, drinks, and snacks. Putting the gear shift and parking brake up high on the dash really gets them out of the way.

* Driver armrests, and lack thereof, make me nuts. The CR-V and Santa Fe were best. RAV4 was worst.

* Back seat of the Forrester, RAV4, and Tucson were all pretty snug. Only the Santa Fe and CR-V had a rear passenger armrest on the models we drove.

* The Santa Fe and CR-V have very nice standard options. I like that a powered sunroof on the Santa Fe with the base GLS trimline is an option, whereas with most other makes you have to bump up.

* There's lots of competition in this class, and there's definitely something here for everyone. Considering we skipped Suzuki, Mitsubishi, and everything made by Chrysler and GM, we barely scratched the surface.

So we've whittled it down to three - CR-V, Santa Fe, and Forrester, in that order. We're leaning towards the CR-V because we don't really need to pay the extra money for a V6 and AWD, considering where we live. But any of the three would work for us.

dc_driver · March 2005

Thanks for your insightful post. I own a Tribute, and while the engine is a little loud during acceleration, it does not idle rough, and I thought the transmission was fairly responsive. But, the CRV has a 5 speed automatic, so its shifts should be both more economical and precise. You cannot go wrong with any of these vehicles, but the CRV will have an advantage over the Hyundai in terms of mpg, and resale. The Forester is great, and the 4cyl will be very economical on gas and should be one of the cheaper vehicles in terms of price since the base version has so many standard features (here in my area, the base Forester sells around 19K). I agree with you that the CRV is plain, but hey it is definitely well engineered. I just hated the placement of the shifter and the rear mounted spare tire.

I would recommend that you drive the Tribute, but if you are leaning away from the V6 over the 4cyl, then I think that rules out the Tribute/Escape, Santa Fe, and Tucson. The Tribute, Escape, and Tucson all have 4cyl available, but none of them come close to matching the CRV or Forester..

bigeaux · March 2005

->"here in my area, the base Forester sells around 19K"

I envy you for that. I live in Louisiana - there's a whopping three Subie dealers in the entire state. This has an unfortunate impact on prices. Edmunds TMV for the base 2.5X here is $22,152.00. I have not started negotiating with anyone yet, but I'm skeptical about getting as good a deal here as, say, if I bought in Colordado.

->"I just hated the placement of the shifter and the rear mounted spare tire."

The shifter position on the CR-V was a complaint for another guy I know who went with the Forrester over the CR-V. I guess it doesn't bother me. If it's an automatic, I couldn't care less where the shifter is, so long as it's not in my way. And in the CR-V, you can put a briefcase or a purse where the shifter would be on just about anything else.

As for the spare, well...my sob story is having had to change six flat tires in the past eight years. All road hazards. Call me Mr. Lucky. Anyway, after you've pulled out all of your luggage from the trunk onto the shoulder of a busy freeway a couple of times, or had to crawl under the back end of your pickup truck and gotten completely filthy fetching your spare a few more times...well, that gate-mounted spare looks awfully nice (just add wheel locks and move the jack/wrench to the door pockets).

->"I would recommend that you drive the Tribute, but if you are leaning away from the V6 over the 4cyl, then I think that rules out the Tribute/Escape, Santa Fe, and Tucson. The Tribute, Escape, and Tucson all have 4cyl available, but none of them come close to matching the CRV or Forester.."

I agree. Didn't drive the V6 Escape, but reading about it told us that it was too much engine for too many $. Heck, the V6 Santa Fe really isn't much better, price wise. The 4 cyl boxer on the Forrester was plenty peppy, and that will probably be the toughest part of the decision vs CR-V if prices are comparable.

stever · March 2005

gotten completely filthy fetching your spare

Your luck sounds like mine, although it's been 8 months now since my last flat.

You still get filthy wrestling the flat off the tire, and unless you roll it off the shoulder (j/k), you still have to get it in the rig somewhere. I keep a big garbage bag so I can put the spare in it and put it inside my car until I can get to the next tire shop and get it fixed.

I don't much care for having the spare inside either; I'd rather have it underneath on a crank. Spares hanging off the back give me something else to hit so they have their own issues. :-)

Maybe run-flats is the answer.

Steve, Host

ateixeira · March 2005

Nice comparo.

Also check out the IIHS and NHTSA sites for more info, especially on safety. That might help break a tie, at least.

Happy shopping.

-juice

p0926 · March 2005

Edmunds TMV for the base 2.5X here is $22,152.00

Holy cow! That's almost $3k over what you should be paying. For that much money, I'd get a one-way ticket to someplace like Atlanta, buy one there and drive it back. FYI, with a firm quote in hand, most dealers will match the price rather than lose a sale.

-Frank

bigeaux · March 2005

"Maybe run-flats is the answer."

No kidding.

Spares underneath is definitely preferable to inside. I've never had a crank to get at an underslung spare, but I can see how that would be nice.

Another goofy thing with the CR-V: the side-opening rear gate. Many people prefer the typical flip-up gate and find the side-opening gate inconvenient. Ironically, my wife and I live in the first house on the driver side of a one-way street, and nobody ever parks behind us. Thus the door opens in the perfect direction as far as we're concerned.

bigeaux · March 2005

"Holy cow! That's almost $3k over what you should be paying. For that much money, I'd get a one-way ticket to someplace like Atlanta, buy one there and drive it back. FYI, with a firm quote in hand, most dealers will match the price rather than lose a sale."

Houston crossed my mind, since it's closer than Atlanta and my mother-in-law lives there.

"FYI, with a firm quote in hand, most dealers will match the price rather than lose a sale."

That's the plan. My favorite line from a salesman (happened to be Honda) I've heard in my recent shopping:

"Look, I know that you know what the invoice price is for this car. Get some other quotes then call me back. I am very aggressive at the end of the month."

Sounds like a salesman who reads Edmunds.

stever · March 2005

Depending on where the crank access is, sometimes you still have to unload or shift around half your vacation load in the back of the car to get to it and lower your spare.

Most people don't parallel park so the gate isn't much of an issue.

Steve, Host

baggs32 · March 2005

One more thing about the swinging CR-V door vs the others that lift is that you'll get wet loading things into the back of the CR-V on a rainy day. At least with the hatch you have a roof over your head. It's nice to have when you are loading a stroller or a 300 lb TV into the back during a downpour.

My sister-in-law complains about that all the time. I don't know if the newer models are different but on her '01 CR-V she has to lift the glass before she can open the swinging door. When the glass is up water drips off of it on to her adding insult to injury. You can also factor in that you have to walk around the door to get to the opening, when loading from curb side, which forces you to spend even more time holding that 300 lb TV in the rain.

p0926 · March 2005

You can also factor in that you have to walk around the door to get to the opening, when loading from curb side

Actually, he's extremely fortunate in that he can park on the lefthand side of a one-way street so for him the door swings in the right direction. Of course if he gets the CR-V that means he can never move!

-Frank

mnf · March 2005

That reason and with the Auto shifter on the dash and the part timer AWD was the main reason that I went with a Subaru Forester. This coming from a long time Honda owner who has no regrets on my 2004 forester purchase....

baggs32 · March 2005

Actually, he's extremely fortunate in that he can park on the lefthand side of a one-way street so for him the door swings in the right direction. Of course if he gets the CR-V that means he can never move!

Right, moving is not an option!

I get the parking on the left side thing and that is extremely beneficial if you own a vehicle with a swing out door (to the wrong side as with the CR-V). But I'm referring to those situations where you pull up in front of a Best Buy or something of the like and have to load from the right side of the road. There's where you run into some door issues.

I know it's not a major problem but little things like that always bug me. I use our Escape to haul a lot of crap from stores to my house so it is a big deal to me how that rear door functions. Especially since 99% of everything around here is on a hill. Having a swing out door in the way on a slanted parking lot is not an option.

ateixeira · March 2005

Up is best - needs less clearance and gives you shelter from rain as well as a wide opening and no obstruction.

Look at Odyssey and Pilot.

Element has a neat clamshell, though.

-juice

p0926 · March 2005

I much prefer the overhead opening type rear hatch. Even better are the ones that allow you to open the glass separately.

-Frank

isda65 · March 2005

I don't know how big and strong you are but if you can singlehandedly carry a 300lb TV you must be the size of Hagrid in the Harry Potter novels

As far as I know it took two big, able, swearing and cursing men to carry my 230lb 36inch Sony to my house when I took delivery last year

w84itnow · March 2005

On the hayundaiusa.com website it shows the Santa Fe as having 4WD but the dealer is telling me it only has AWD. Can some one tell me which is true?

tidester · March 2005

That's interesting. All the information I have (e.g. edmunds.com 2005 New Cars and Trucks Buyer's Guide p.282) indicates you have the option of 2WD or AWD.

Also, from the Hyundai site: "Four-wheel drive with viscous-coupling center differential and 60/40 front/rear torque split" (http://www.hyundaiusa.com/Vehicles/SantaFe/Features_Specs/Vehicle_Details.asp)

Viscous coupling would suggest AWD rather than 4WD.

tidester, host

baggs32 · March 2005

Ha! No I'm not Hagrid. I am referring to two or more people lifting something of that weight. Although I did lift/slide our 35" Toshiba out by myself back in December almost dropping it on the dolly below. :0 Then two big, able, swearing and cursing men carried it up the steps and into the house. Later on I and a small, weaker, swearing and cursing wife lifted it into the entertainment unit. Hopefully that TV lasts a loooooong time in there!

Our 42" widescreen was lighter and much easier to move than that beast.

Remember one of you will be walking backwards too which makes avoiding the swing-out door even more of a chore.

mtngal · March 2005

I prefer the swing-out door to an overhead lift - I'm short and the overheads can be too high/awkward for me to close. It's much easier to just push a swing-out door shut when your hands are full.

There doesn't seem to be much standard between car manufacturers and dealers when it comes to what exactly is AWD vs. 4WD, and how the systems are set up. It gets real interesting when you talk to some car salesman who doesn't have a clue when it comes to what they are selling (and there are quite a few of them around SoCal). So many of them don't know how their AWD system works (is the torque split all the time or is it FWD or RWD until the wheels slip? What's between the front and back, and how does it work?). I used to judge salesmen by whether they could answer those questions or not (and do the research here on Edmunds or elsewhere on the internet to know the answers before I went).

I looked at the Santa Fe when it first came out and as I recall, it was AWD then - don't know if it was changed since then.

I'm not in the market for a new vehicle, but this question about the Santa Fe made me realize that it's been a long time since I looked at any of these other than the Forester. The '98 IS getting on in years, though it has no issues at the moment but will eventually need replacing. I wonder if my other half wants to go looking at new vehicles with me any time soon...

tazereli · March 2005

Lets apply the K.I.S.S. principle here.

AWD = no Low range
4WD = has Low range

Kyle

rsholland · March 2005

Not true. It's nothing but "marketing."

Rav4 has 4WD, according to Toyota.

Same with the the CRV, Pilot, Ridgeline, according to Honda.

Yet the Dodge Durango and Dakota have AWD, with a low range.

I'm sure there are other examples too.

Bob

p0926 · March 2005

Oh brother. Toyota and Honda obviously want to portray their car-based SUVs as more rugged (hence the 4WD label) while Dodge wants to soften the image of their truck-based SUVs to appeal to the soccer mom crowd (thus the use of AWD label).

-Frank

rsholland · March 2005

I forgot the "4WD" (according to Toyota) Highlander, and the "AWD" (according to Dodge) Ram 1500, with a 2-speed transfer case.

Bob

mtngal · March 2005

Just to make matters even more complicated, the various systems do different things well. While a transfer case to lock the wheels works well off-road and in deep snow, it can be a liability on iffy, mostly clear roads (is there enough slippage for 4-high or not?). That's why I think it is more important to find out how a vehicle's system works and then decide if it is appropriate for your needs.

The car manufacturers aren't helping when they mis-lead the public with their labels. So many times a vehicle will get a bad reputation because people buy them for the wrong reasons and then are unsatisfied when it doesn't do what they want/need them to do.

ateixeira · March 2005

To me, the difference is that AWD can remain engaged full-time, i.e. there is a center differential so in a U-turn you don't get nasty binding.

The RAV4, Forester, and Santa Fe would have AWD (always engaged with the VC acting as a center differential).

If you agree with that categorization, then rotary blade couplings like the CR-V, Saturn Vue, and Escape/Tribute are all 4WD. Liberty is 4WD with full locking capability.

-juice

ateixeira · March 2005

Saw the 06 Forester in NY and it now gets 173hp in the base engine and 230hp in the turbo, plus an extra half-inch or so of clearance.

-juice

scape2 · March 2005

The Forester going the way side for the new Tribeca? Also, with the new wave of V6's coming soon from Ford/Mazda/Toyota/Hyundia I am sure Subaru is going to do everything it can with its 4cyl to try to match the v6's torque/curve ect..

p0926 · March 2005

No it's not. With its seating for seven, the Tribeca will compete against mid-size SUVs. The NA Forester 4-cyl will always be at a disadvantage compared to competitors V-6s but then it gets significantly better gas mileage. Meanwhile, there's nothing in this category that even comes close to touching the performance of the Forester Turbo :-)

-Frank

ateixeira · March 2005

Is the Escape supposed to get the bigger V6 that will go in the Five Hundred?

Not that power is lacking in that model, it's more than adequate. So was the Forester XT.

Keep in mind the base Forester gets 23/30 mpg, so it's by far the mpg efficiency champ among SUVs. In fact that's better than competitors even without AWD.

Let's see what the EPA figures are for the 06, I bet they're the same or better. They did change the gearing.

-juice

dc_driver · March 2005

I think keeping the base 4 around (but slightly increasing the HP) was a smart move by Subaru considering the current gas prices. I found the base engine in the Forester, in its current model, to be adequate, but was turned off by the lack or legroom in the second row (this is a theme I have found in nearly all the subaru models).

Do you know if the 06 weighs more? Do you know if they increased the legroom in the second row?

ateixeira · March 2005

Legroom should be unchanged. I doubt weight will change much if at all.

-juice

baggs32 · March 2005

Is the Escape supposed to get the bigger V6 that will go in the Five Hundred?

That was the rumor but another one has surfaced recently that kind of hints that it won't. What I recall, correct or not, is as follows.

Old rumor:
The next gen Escape was to be based on the Mazda6 and offer the Duratec35 somewhere around 2007 or 2008.

New rumor:
The next gen Escape will be based off of the European Focus and another Ford SUV based on the Mazda6 will sit between it and the Explorer. The latter will offer the Duratec35 but the Escape, which may be slightly smaller a la the Sportage and Tuscon, probably won't. I would guess a V6 will be offered but I don't think Ford has a smaller V6 in their parts bin right now. Maybe a turbo Duratec23? I'm not sure of the year but I would expect to see it around the same time or about a year after the Mazda MX Crossport and/or the Lincoln Navigator (both off of the Mazda6).

Suzuki Grand Vitara vs Subaru Forester vs Hyundai Santa Fe vs Jeep Liberty vs Ford Escape vs Saturn

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles