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Comments
My wife actually got a test drive offer of some sort, so I will go try one out hopefully soon.
I like that it offers a low range, perhaps the only compact unibody to do so.
-juice
The good news is that AWD (full-time 4WD) is offered on all trim levels.
Bob
Excerpts from article:
ARLINGTON, VA — Only 6 of the seat/head restraint combinations in 44 current model SUVs are rated good for protection against whiplash injuries in rear-end crashes. None of the seat/head restraint designs in 15 pickup truck models earns a good rating. Overall 4 out of 5 SUV and pickup seat/head restraints recently evaluated by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety are rated marginal or poor for whiplash protection. This is the first time the Institute has tested SUV and pickup seats using a dummy that can measure forces on the neck during a simulated rear-end crash.
Only the seats in the Ford Freestyle, Honda Pilot, Jeep Grand Cherokee, Land Rover LR3, Subaru Forester, and Volvo XC90 models earn good overall ratings.
"Manufacturer advertising often emphasizes the rugged image of SUVs and pickups," says Institute president Adrian Lund. "However, the Institute's evaluations show seats and head restraints in many models wouldn't do a good job of protecting most people in a typical rear impact in everyday commuter traffic."
Seat/head restraints in the Volvo XC90 and Subaru Forester earn good overall ratings, in part because of their advanced designs that help keep the head and torso moving together in a crash. As an occupant's torso sinks into the Subaru seat during a rear crash, a mechanism in the seatback is designed to push the head restraint up and toward the back of the head.
Full article is here: http://www.highwaysafety.org/news/2006/pr010806.html
-Frank
A lot of people find the Forester's headrest uncomfortable, complaining that it pushes their head forward - exactly what it's designed to do. Fortunately, I'm not one of these people; it suits me just fine.
Doug
Their problmes are:
1) Noise & Vibration:
Much bigger than the previous years' models. Some said the rubber inside is a little weak and prone to wear earlier, in other words, CHEAP material. But, no definite reason has not yet been found.
2) PTTR (Pull To The Right):
This is a little serious.
Both the Santa Fe and the Kia Lotze (Optima in North America) have PTTR.
Seeing is believing, so...
mms://navernews.hvod.nefficient.co.kr/navernews/0004/2006/0111/00044799.wmv
\\ copy and paste the above link into the address bar of your browser or into the OPEN URL menu of your media player.
You don't need to understand Korean, just watch the video clip that speaks volumes.
One Hyundai representative said they complained because they had a "disease of the mind" (literal translation), in other words, "not a serious problem, they just over-reacted."
After watching the clip, I concluded the Hyundai rep had the "disease of the mind."
The Koreans are certainly capable, despite the poor example the rep displayed in that video.
-juice
All I can say is the vehicle seems like less than the sum of its parts. On paper, all the parts are there, low range, V6 standard, great warranty, decent space, adorable looks, ...but the actual test drive was a little disappointing.
The V6 is about as smooth as my blender chopping up ice. It's about a decade behind segment leaders in NVH control. Even worse, for all that noise you don't get satisfying results in term of forward thrust; the engine is merely adequate, no more.
And then the gas mileage is poor, c'mon Suzuki you can do better than this, just look at your bikes!
Handling was a bit soft for me, though the payoff in ride was good, a whole level better than the outgoing models were.
Interior gets good scores from me, some cheap plastics and thin carpets but that's par for this class. It didn't excel, but it didn't really fall behind either. Comfort levels were high.
The cargo area floor is a bit small, so you might have to stack your cargo. They should add a shelf or something like the Equinox has.
The warranty sounds great, but there just wasn't anything compelling about it to me. It will basically compete primarily on price, I felt.
-juice
I've said it seemed like an industrial-strength CRV. That "industrial strength" means "truck-like," which means not "car-like." It will never ride or steer like a Forester. If it did it would be a car.
I do agree that I would like a larger, more powerful engine. It does have a timing chain, however, which I like.
Bob
Other issues I have with it that I remembered later are the curb-blocking rear gate (nuisance at Costco or the grocery store), plus the rear visibility isn't good. Neither is the RAV4 or CR-V, but get in a Forester and you can see everything.
-juice
High range is used most of the time. It is for most snow or mud. High range lock gives more traction for snow/mud.
Low range lock is extra traction for very difficult situations (I think this brings in a lower gear for hill climbing).
Neutral is for towing.
It also has vehicle stabilization w/abs. I think the power split is 45/55 f/r. Also, the GV has a 50/50 weight balance which will help stability. And, for extra strength, it is a unibody with a ladder frame welded to it, so it should be great on patches of real bumpy icey road. I test drove one four hours ago and was impressed. At a price of $24,500 before rebates, it'll be way cheaper than a compable sube.
As for "true" awd, only sube and suzi have it.The other systems like Ford, Equi/Torrent/ CRV are really automatic part time systems. Some are rather slow (like the GM system). However, the Honda real time system supposedly kicks in after the front wheels spin 1/4 turn. I had a first gen crv and it did great around Lake Tahoe. Mind you, this replaced my Audi quattro, which had a great awd.
My jetta has esp and despite being fwd, with the help of goodyear triple treads, does as well as the crv or audi, unless the snow gets too deep. ESP is really incredible in the snow! My advice is to get a vehicle with esp and don't worry whether the vehicle has true awd or one of the automatic part time systems (like the CRV or VUE). Go test a 'ute with esp and awd when it is snowing or real wet outside. Both the CRV and GV have esp . The awd will keep you from getting stuck, but it won't keep you on the road like ESP.
I won't even mention the Rav as comparably equipped, can cost $5000 more than the other vehicles.
As far as offroad and 4x4 systems. I have had both the Escape and Tribute buried in the snow and they have done just fine. However, if you are and outdoors person who finds the 4x4 trails more your lifestyle.. I have to say the Jeep Liberty is more for you. Liberty is only 1 of a few of these small utes that truely has the frame for serious offroading.. Let us know what you choose!
Having said that, I think it would meet your needs just fine, and it does sit higher than the Forester (seat hip point).
-juice
Humm.. thats funny. After owning an 01 Escape XLT V6 4x4 for over 4 years now, I have one very small squeak in the right corner of my windshield on really cold days.. thats it! And.. I tow with my Escape, visit fishing places in the Cascade range, and skii. So my Escape has had its fair share of work-outs over its lifetime.. Oh, before you say "I'm lucky, or its one in a million" or " very few are build that way" We also own a 04 Tribute ES V6 4x4.. No squeaks or rattles on that one either.. Cheers...
very well. I plan to get a toyota very soon.
Rust will hurt the resale value even if you do trade.
-juice
Another reason I ask is rust on cars past about 1990 is something I never really hear about anylonger, from any make/brand. With the metal/frame dipping used, along with paint technology has pretty much made rust on vehicles a thing of the past.. :confuse:
I remember spending some time in Taos, NM, and they just added sand on top of the snow. No chemicals used to melt it. I think it was because a lot of people drink well water and the chemicals contaminate it.
I agree though, most steel is now galvanized so this is less of an issue nowadays.
-juice
Lots more at the Salt Institute.
Steve, Host
1990 was 16 years ago, so the number should even be a lot lower now, maybe half that 6%.
-juice
The actual concentration spread on the roads must not have been too bad since cars don't seem any rustier up there anymore than anywhere else.
We gave a ski bum a lift to his '87 Legacy the other day and it had a bunch of rust on the fender wells. Things have changed!
Steve, Host
-juice
Steve, Host
My cousin had one with 144k miles, ended up selling it to her nephew to get a new Outback. AFAIK it's still going.
-juice
Varmint just posted an interesting link about safety numbers that tire kickers concerned about safety may want to look at:
Informed For Life
Steve, Host
If you're using more words then, by definition, it is less succinct - but it is definitely more precise!
tidester, host
Ouch. Point well taken.
Thanks,
Don
Newbie
Actually it is more reliable than a Honda. I remember reading the Forester is one of the single most reliable cars out there.
Doesn't matter, we're splitting hairs here. All models mentioned are reliable.
-juice
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=116618
Bob
You pick it.
Ken
1. There is no independent verification of the facts, so people can write anything about any model.
2. The entire story is never revealed by the complaintant, so you don't know even if there is a grain of truth in the complaint, if something ridiculously illegal and/or stupid was going on at the time.
Case in point: I remember a post on the 3 series board a while back, where the poster was saying how unbalanced the car was. Going 25 on a straight paved dry road sunny day no traffic, the car "suddenly" started fishtailing? or something else. Poster claims he/she lost control and landed in a ditch. Result car is a POS and a deathtrap. How many would actually believe that story?
I also believe that someone stupid enough (and I don't underestimate the stupidity of the American driver), could get a car into the worst of situations, and blame it on the car.
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/complain/results.cfm
Not that I am picking on Honda, just proving the point that every car and truck out there can be pummeled with unsubstantiated complaints
Just like reading the posts on here; it doesn't take much to weed out the venting and dubious comments but you do start seeing issues repeat themselves for certain makes/models.