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The stiffer the side wall, the worse the ride. A definite tradeoff.
Her rude response makes it clear that she is one of the 90% of car salespeople who propogate the perception of car sales being a sleazy business.
Rather than a no thank you, her attitude was what I have typically experienced on the lot. If you think her helpfulness is anything more than a pitch, I think you will be disappointed, as I am.
At least I didn't have to go out in the cold and walk the lot to get the treatment.
so, for anyone w/opinion on difference in price, is Seq. worth $10-12K more as a "city boy" SUV?
I've seen both happen with good salesperson friends of mine. Its a tough business to work in.
By the way, the good hearted ones don't have time to play on the internet because they are the ones with all the real customers making their deliveries, helping with their past sales customers etc. at the dealership.
I bet if you walked in to the dealership 1 month after you bought a vehicle from any sales people who sleaze on this site, they wouldn't even remember who you are.
That's pretty bad Dianne. I thought you might have been one of the good ones. I guess not.
Driving this vehicle at 75mph on a regular basis...you bet you are going to get gas milage that stinks. This is a big, heavy vehicle with a large frontal area. Hey, where can you drive like this legally anyway? Even MT had to slow things down.
I rest my case. I have plenty of very happy, very gracious customers to stack against your opinion of me. My opinion of you is probably laughable. ANyone who emails me offering what you did should have been ignored, but instead, I was honest and said I wasn't interested in your offer. You now sound like my 4 year old when she doesn't get her way.
Whatever.
-Dianne
But, please, do NOT insult everyone here by trying to tell us that invoice equals cost. An offer of 2% over invoice is NOT an offer of 2% over your cost. You know it, we know it, and even Edmunds points it out. This is EXACTLY the type of BS that gives car salespeople a bad reputation.
Now, having said that, the two posters who took issue with your response should grow up. You're perfectly within your right to turn their offer down, and that does not make you a "bad" salesperson as they imply. You're just another business person who wants to do deals, but not to the point of being stupid. The bottom line is it IS a hot item, and people WILL pay a premium for it until the market says, "Enough." It's a simple matter of supply and demand...Econ 101 material.
-good luck
The MDX topic is redilculous and it was out earlier.
Truck
Are we gonna have to put rlwdotcom and Dianne in time out??? WIth Dianne putting everyone else in time out, who is gonna be in charge if she is in timeout?
Seriously though, I hope we can get an answer to this, because there is a credibility issue at stake...
I took a look at a 2001 Suburban Owner's Manual and this is what it states:
If you have the optional trailer hitch, your vehicle is already equipped for heavy trailering. See the chart for weight limits.
Then it appears to talk about towing from the rear bumper, but the manual could be clearer in this regard. It states to never tow more than what is printed on the step of the bumper. It then states to "Consider using a sway bar."
I believe that this refers to towing with the bumper, not the hitch.
In any case, I have never "considered" a sway bar, nor has any of my dealers ever suggested one.
It does not apply to dealer situations where dealers fix prices, collude with other dealers, hold small monopolies for geographical areas, etc. while withholding this information, and every other bit of information they can, from customers.
There is a reason why dealers were pissed when Edmunds and other companies released pricing information to the public. This is one piece of the information chain that they used to withhold from us. Now, with this information freely exchanged, their job is harder because the buyer knows more (an informed buyer is a factor that is assumed in the "free market theory.")
Salesmen are not smarter people than the rest of us. The major problem is that we are forced to play THEIR GAME IN THEIR BALL PARK. And they play everyday. The average car buyer plays probably buys a car once every 2-5 years. Even with so much internet information nowadays, a large portion of the buyers still don't do their homework (at least not very well). Sledpeddler may (just may) succeed in telling this BS to a customer in the lot, but to tell the same thing to the posters or lurkers of this forum, NO WAY.
As had been stated in this forum many times by several CONSUMERS, dealers (and salesmen) have the right and should make a profit. They are not charitable institutions, and they don't even have to be apologetic about making a profit. The prices are dictated by supply and demand, plain and simple. But to say that salesmen make $100-200 on a $40K vehicle after days of negotiation is a perpetuation of a lie and a continuous insult to the consumers. An exception, yes. A rule, absolutely not.
Thanks for the insight. I have a buddy who is going to buy my Michelins and then the door is open to the BFG AT's, 285/75 R 16. I think they will do a much better job in the dirt and also fill up the FJ100 wheel wells better. I had 285's on my previous FJ80 and they filled up the wheel wells like the should.
I am hauling a '97 Specialized M2 Comp with xt and xtr components. I want a new bike but this is far from worn out.
Also for the pow pow, I am hauling a Burton Custom 55 and a Burton Canyon 57, for the really deep stuff.
See ya.
Truck
Dealers are not a free market.
They collude and hold monopolies.
Seq's are not sold at 7-Elevens and Walmarts.
Consequently, the simple supply and demand chart does not apply to Seq sales. It will take years for factors to equalize. And, all the time, Toyota and its dealers will do whatever they can (by witholding information, releasing only certain information, manipulating supply, collusion, price-fixing, etc.) to keep the price up as high as they possibly can.
Nothing wrong with that, I guess, provided there is at least some competition, but look what it did to Microsoft, or have you tried to buy a diamond lately?
Canada to take advantage of large savings in the exchange rate and prices. This from the Pathfinder forum. Is it possible to buy a Sequoia in Canada? I've heard that you can't for Honda's.
Take for example, the SEQ. I am sure that the dealers right now are in (spoken and unspoken)collusion to maximize their profits for as long as the item is hot. But the fact is there are also a lot of people, including myself, my sister and a lot of friends I know, who really like the Seq but feel it is overpriced by a few thousand dollars at MSRP (or more). Our decisions do not necessarily affect the supply (at least for now), but it reduces the demand because many of these potential customers are buying something else (RX 300, Subs, Exps, Tahoe, etc.). Once the frenzy is over, the market will settle down and Toyota cannot do very much about it. For myself, I am hoping that market adjustment (on the consumer side) will come sooner than the dealers think and even if that does not come soon enough, and I lose patience in waiting, I still have the options to buy something else.
Microsoft and the De Beers are real examples of a captive market, but that is difficult to do in the auto industry where a lot of very good products are available for the customers to choose from (Seq and Subs included). Another example, I'm sure the Seq market will also be affected when the 2002 Explorer comes out, and others that will follow. I don't plan to buy one, but I am not totally excluding that possibility either.
For now, I still have the patience to wait.
Nothing wrong with making a profit, huh?
A free, open market economy with competition? Supply and demand?
Yeah right.
I also have to sell the other cars and trucks we build too, so my focus is trying to wade thru what's now 100-150 emails daily. Using my time wisely, usually emails with offers I consider to be ridiculous are set aside after I talk/type to folks I consider to be REAL. If I have time to respond, and believe me, typing out thoughtful explanations why someone should see it differently is very tinme consuming. It's better to just say no, you know? And, I did. I told him that I was SO not interested at this time because I didn't have enough Sequoias for any/everyone as it is. Perhaps he read a little TONE into it? ;> I dunno, 150 emails a day and one guy offers what he must know is ridiculous and I say no and now he's pissy.
Like I said, "whatever". I'd be very pleased to answer questions, or help folks get great deals even if I can't be the one to sell the car/truck. But, I also have the right to respond as I see fit. Truth is, "rude" would have been deleting the email and never answering. Looka t it this way: at least he knows he needs to look elsewhere for one at 2% over invoice. I didn't leave any doubts as to that. Plenty of dealers would be vague, perhaps even accepting an order with a vague "maybe springtime, maybe March..." attitude and then left his request in a drawer while people paying fair market value drove their cars off w/o him being called... when Sequoias were really available (but at higher pricing). That is something you will never see me do.
I had been asked on another board what the rear axle ratio was for the Sequoia. I couldn't find that small detail anywhere in print or internet, so I personally reached an engineer in Indiana who found it for me pronto.
I don't have to defend my 'no' and frankly, he isn't an idiot for asking for an unusual deal. No one is. But, he's crossed the line by being pissy about hearing 'no'. That is what I take issue with.
-Dianne
No one, no one, is ENTITLED to profit. Anyone who thinks that is either naive beyond comprehension, or hasn't been around long enough to experience a recession.
I'm a real estate developer. When demand is hot, I sell product for high profit. Why?...because I CAN. When, as in the case of recession, there is little or no demand, I am often forced to sell product for little or no profit, sometimes even at a LOSS. Why?...because I HAVE to. I am NOT entitled to a profit, and neither is anyone else.
As to the case in point, the Sequoia is a hot, new product and, in most areas, in relatively low supply and high demand. The ONLY people who determine the profit margin (at the consumer and dealership level) are the ones with their tongues hanging out with checkbooks at the ready. OTOH, if there were no ready and willing buyers, and the lots were loaded with unsold sequoias, it wouldn't matter *what* games the dealers play, would it? And, we're not dealing with a "free market commodity item" here. Give me a break; can anyone actually say, with a straight face, that they NEED a sequoia? No, this IS simple supply and demand, and any market "manipulation" ultimately takes the back seat. On want-driven purchases, buyers vote with their wallets, period.
Now, back to the topic:
For everyone's information, our local dealers sold out their first allotment of sequoia's at prices ranging from $2000 to $5000 *over* MSRP. Now, a month later, they're telling people $0 to $1000 *under* MSRP. Draw your own conclusions.
Personally, I think the Sequoia is a GREAT vehicle, and a very worthy competitor to the Yukon/Tahoe, though I would disagree that it competes with the Suburban/YukonXL. Different vehicle class, imho. However, I make it a point to never, ever, buy the first year of a model run so I'll be looking at these some more next year!
The Yukon/Tahoe could be thrown in there too the only difference being one's clarity of how large an SVU they need.
I also hope that some people contact me to buy cars and trucks. I don't violate Edmund's policy against soliciting business but my profile has my phone number and e-mail. As a result of my participation here, I sell between 5 to 7 cars a month to Town Hall Customers. This justifies to my managers why I spend the time here I do. Beyond this, I often run into customers who walk in off the street who's buying decision has been influenced by what I have posted here.
Unlike Dianne, I don't sell 700 cars a year. I'm on pace for just under 200 which qualifies me for Toyota's Gold Level Sales Society. This means that I have more time on my hands to handle e-mails and look up unusual information. When I am given an offer that does not come close to matching current market conditions, I do take the time to explain this. I like to think my responses are respectful but firm. Depending on how the offer is made, I may make a counter offer or I may not. I have time to do this because I sell far fewer cars than Dianne.
Now, here is what scares me. Anybody can say anything they like about me here. They don't have to back it up and because I am a salesman, the customer will be believed anyway. Dianne and I both understand that we take a pretty big risk by being so active on this board. Dianne has a 95% CSI score but that means that 5% of her customers are less than "completely satisfied" for one reason or another. She may even have one or two out of 100 who are "completely dissatisfied" and those people are free to post anything they like on this board and there isn't a thing she could do about it.
Ease up guys. We're doing our best to earn your respect. Maybe not your business, nor your agreement but at least your respect.
Things are getting a little too serious, so how about one of our salespeople telling us what's hot and what's not with Sequoia SR5 colors?
Yoss, in the gasoline business there are no Yugos, Ferraris, and everything in between.
I discount the green heavily because it doesn't work for me, girlfriend! ;>
Hot for my own market is anything with the name Sequoia on the rear end of it! After that, folks seem to be hot on:
Silver or desert sand SR5's (I suspect due to the color(s) looking one-tone vs. being obviously a duo-tone)
Blue SR5's - scarce! I have two 4WDs here that I pre-sold weeks ago that have finally arrived.
Thunder gray Limiteds, especially with the gray leather.
Black Limiteds.
White Limiteds with oak leather.
Silver Limiteds.
I think the least requested colors for me here are red and green...and they are Christmas-colors! I have had one request for chestnut, but we've never seen one yet.
-Dianne
dianne@earthlink.net
PS. I usually ride my Rocky Mountain Element Race with Marzocchi Flylight 100 and XTR with Race Face cranks. BUT you forgot the most important thing to make the connection. Continental Vertical Pro 2.3 or Rokko DH 2.4's depending on the conditions.
Hoping to upgrade to a Turner XCE frame for next season. Last ride of the season yesterday. Trail completely frozen and also snow covered out of the deep woods. Nothing like riding a fast singletrack downhill...
covered with ice patches...
in the dark, which it was by the time we finished.
But hey, I've got until May for the injuries to heal. Too bad I left half of my jacket on a couple of pine branches. Man those things are sharp and pointy.
LTX A/T
LTX A/S
There is also the new Michelin Cross Terrain tire. They are supposed to be quiet riding, but aren't too aggressive off-road.
I think if you want the best of both worlds, you might be better off with the BFG's or some Yokohama Geolander AT+ or Super Digger V's. The tread depths are deeper allowing for better self cleaning qualities. The tread is also slightly more aggressive allowing for better traction as well. All 3 of these tires are excellent on-road and quiet riding. I'm not sure what sizes are available in the Super Digger V's. The Geolander AT+'s might be replacing them. The Yokohamas last a very long time.
You definately want to go to an All-Terrain type of tire. Most OEM tires are very street biased, no matter what the dealer may want to tell you. Once you hit dirt, they tend to slide more because of the tread design. The lugs in the tire just aren't deep or wide enough, not to mention weaker sidewalls. Not much protection there.
-hope this helps
As to equipment, the typical Limited equipment will also give you the side air bags plus you have heated seats and power folding side mirrors on the Limited. This is in addition to the fog lights, monochrome exterior and spoiler you mentioned.
sclifford@kjtoyota.com
-Dianne