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Toyota Sequoia



  • Easy to say, but this assumes an open market where information and products are freely exchanged.
    It does not apply to dealer situations where dealers fix prices, collude with other dealers, hold small monopolies for geographical areas, etc. while withholding this information, and every other bit of information they can, from customers.
    There is a reason why dealers were pissed when Edmunds and other companies released pricing information to the public. This is one piece of the information chain that they used to withhold from us. Now, with this information freely exchanged, their job is harder because the buyer knows more (an informed buyer is a factor that is assumed in the "free market theory.")
  • $100-200 on a $40,000 vehicle? Excuse me! A dealership may have 1 or 2% of their vehicles that they would sell at cost for whatever reason. But to say or even imply that this is the "norm" is an outright insult to customers like us. For a Tercel at the end of a slow month, maybe. For are SEQ, are you kidding?

    Salesmen are not smarter people than the rest of us. The major problem is that we are forced to play THEIR GAME IN THEIR BALL PARK. And they play everyday. The average car buyer plays probably buys a car once every 2-5 years. Even with so much internet information nowadays, a large portion of the buyers still don't do their homework (at least not very well). Sledpeddler may (just may) succeed in telling this BS to a customer in the lot, but to tell the same thing to the posters or lurkers of this forum, NO WAY.

    As had been stated in this forum many times by several CONSUMERS, dealers (and salesmen) have the right and should make a profit. They are not charitable institutions, and they don't even have to be apologetic about making a profit. The prices are dictated by supply and demand, plain and simple. But to say that salesmen make $100-200 on a $40K vehicle after days of negotiation is a perpetuation of a lie and a continuous insult to the consumers. An exception, yes. A rule, absolutely not.
  • fj100fj100 Posts: 97

    Thanks for the insight. I have a buddy who is going to buy my Michelins and then the door is open to the BFG AT's, 285/75 R 16. I think they will do a much better job in the dirt and also fill up the FJ100 wheel wells better. I had 285's on my previous FJ80 and they filled up the wheel wells like the should.
    I am hauling a '97 Specialized M2 Comp with xt and xtr components. I want a new bike but this is far from worn out.

    Also for the pow pow, I am hauling a Burton Custom 55 and a Burton Canyon 57, for the really deep stuff.

    See ya.
  • I am jealous! Have fun!

  • It is not just supply and demand. That is a simple formula that assumes a free market.
    Dealers are not a free market.
    They collude and hold monopolies.
    Seq's are not sold at 7-Elevens and Walmarts.
    Consequently, the simple supply and demand chart does not apply to Seq sales. It will take years for factors to equalize. And, all the time, Toyota and its dealers will do whatever they can (by witholding information, releasing only certain information, manipulating supply, collusion, price-fixing, etc.) to keep the price up as high as they possibly can.
    Nothing wrong with that, I guess, provided there is at least some competition, but look what it did to Microsoft, or have you tried to buy a diamond lately?
  • There is a lot of talk about buying Pathfinders in
    Canada to take advantage of large savings in the exchange rate and prices. This from the Pathfinder forum. Is it possible to buy a Sequoia in Canada? I've heard that you can't for Honda's.
  • I'm not an economist (though had taken two economics classes back in college), but I agree with you to some extent. If we isolate one particular product that is NOT in a free market conditions (based on the factors you have mentioned), the "ideality" law of supply and demand diminishes. You cited good examples and we can add some of the so-called designer drugs too, which are necessities for some people. However, it does not totally offset the law of supply and demand.

    Take for example, the SEQ. I am sure that the dealers right now are in (spoken and unspoken)collusion to maximize their profits for as long as the item is hot. But the fact is there are also a lot of people, including myself, my sister and a lot of friends I know, who really like the Seq but feel it is overpriced by a few thousand dollars at MSRP (or more). Our decisions do not necessarily affect the supply (at least for now), but it reduces the demand because many of these potential customers are buying something else (RX 300, Subs, Exps, Tahoe, etc.). Once the frenzy is over, the market will settle down and Toyota cannot do very much about it. For myself, I am hoping that market adjustment (on the consumer side) will come sooner than the dealers think and even if that does not come soon enough, and I lose patience in waiting, I still have the options to buy something else.

    Microsoft and the De Beers are real examples of a captive market, but that is difficult to do in the auto industry where a lot of very good products are available for the customers to choose from (Seq and Subs included). Another example, I'm sure the Seq market will also be affected when the 2002 Explorer comes out, and others that will follow. I don't plan to buy one, but I am not totally excluding that possibility either.

    For now, I still have the patience to wait.
  • Lots of Exxons, Hess's, Mobiles, Ammoco's, etc. around. Yet they all seem to be selling gas at the same exact price. Blame it on OPEC? Well, isn't it a little odd that the Exxon's of the world are pulling in record profits at a time when their suppliers are supposedly raising prices to them?
    Nothing wrong with making a profit, huh?
    A free, open market economy with competition? Supply and demand?
    Yeah right.
  • cct, sorry but the plain truth for me is I have a certain amount of time in the entire day. I get an average of 20 emails a day now for Sequoia, and from all over the country. I don't get enough Sequoia models to sell every single person asking for Sequoia. My pricing is awesome, but I have folks who are now set to wait as much as 8-12 weeks for theirs.
    I also have to sell the other cars and trucks we build too, so my focus is trying to wade thru what's now 100-150 emails daily. Using my time wisely, usually emails with offers I consider to be ridiculous are set aside after I talk/type to folks I consider to be REAL. If I have time to respond, and believe me, typing out thoughtful explanations why someone should see it differently is very tinme consuming. It's better to just say no, you know? And, I did. I told him that I was SO not interested at this time because I didn't have enough Sequoias for any/everyone as it is. Perhaps he read a little TONE into it? ;> I dunno, 150 emails a day and one guy offers what he must know is ridiculous and I say no and now he's pissy.

    Like I said, "whatever". I'd be very pleased to answer questions, or help folks get great deals even if I can't be the one to sell the car/truck. But, I also have the right to respond as I see fit. Truth is, "rude" would have been deleting the email and never answering. Looka t it this way: at least he knows he needs to look elsewhere for one at 2% over invoice. I didn't leave any doubts as to that. Plenty of dealers would be vague, perhaps even accepting an order with a vague "maybe springtime, maybe March..." attitude and then left his request in a drawer while people paying fair market value drove their cars off w/o him being called... when Sequoias were really available (but at higher pricing). That is something you will never see me do.

    I had been asked on another board what the rear axle ratio was for the Sequoia. I couldn't find that small detail anywhere in print or internet, so I personally reached an engineer in Indiana who found it for me pronto.

    I don't have to defend my 'no' and frankly, he isn't an idiot for asking for an unusual deal. No one is. But, he's crossed the line by being pissy about hearing 'no'. That is what I take issue with.

  • cct1cct1 Posts: 221
    Thanks for the response. I agree a simple no is not rude, and perhaps more was read into your e-mail response than was actually there. I don't always agree with you or Cliffy, but on the other hand, I don't want to see you unfairly bashed either......
  • Are the headlights supposed to shut off when the driver side door is opened and the keys are not in the ignition? My 97 camry le does this. Is this a problem in my sr5 sequoia, or do they all have this behavior. I have heard that the Tundra shuts off the lights automatically. If it is a generic sequoia problem, can I have some switch replaced? Does anybody know the answer to this?
  • kreykrey Posts: 41
    This is certainly off-topic, and will be my last on this subject, but I can't help but jump in here to point out something obvious to any business person.

    No one, no one, is ENTITLED to profit. Anyone who thinks that is either naive beyond comprehension, or hasn't been around long enough to experience a recession.

    I'm a real estate developer. When demand is hot, I sell product for high profit. Why?...because I CAN. When, as in the case of recession, there is little or no demand, I am often forced to sell product for little or no profit, sometimes even at a LOSS. Why?...because I HAVE to. I am NOT entitled to a profit, and neither is anyone else.

    As to the case in point, the Sequoia is a hot, new product and, in most areas, in relatively low supply and high demand. The ONLY people who determine the profit margin (at the consumer and dealership level) are the ones with their tongues hanging out with checkbooks at the ready. OTOH, if there were no ready and willing buyers, and the lots were loaded with unsold sequoias, it wouldn't matter *what* games the dealers play, would it? And, we're not dealing with a "free market commodity item" here. Give me a break; can anyone actually say, with a straight face, that they NEED a sequoia? No, this IS simple supply and demand, and any market "manipulation" ultimately takes the back seat. On want-driven purchases, buyers vote with their wallets, period.

    Now, back to the topic:

    For everyone's information, our local dealers sold out their first allotment of sequoia's at prices ranging from $2000 to $5000 *over* MSRP. Now, a month later, they're telling people $0 to $1000 *under* MSRP. Draw your own conclusions.

    Personally, I think the Sequoia is a GREAT vehicle, and a very worthy competitor to the Yukon/Tahoe, though I would disagree that it competes with the Suburban/YukonXL. Different vehicle class, imho. However, I make it a point to never, ever, buy the first year of a model run so I'll be looking at these some more next year!
  • brillmtbbrillmtb Posts: 543
    I would disagree and dont understand why people are so avoidant when it comes to comparing the Seq to the Yukon XL. They are very comparable. The Yukon XL in some areas offer more, ie 3/4 ton ability, larger motor but overall they are exactly what I would throw into the mix before buying when it comes to SUV's the size of the Seq.

    The Yukon/Tahoe could be thrown in there too the only difference being one's clarity of how large an SVU they need.
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Posts: 3,581
    I was off hunting yesterday and missed all the fun. Let me make a few statements about what I (and presumably Dianne) are doing here on this board. I try to honestly answer questions from people anywhere across the country. Beyond that, I try to learn from the experiences of others. Participation in this and other topics has helped me better understand where my customers are coming from and as a result, I have been encountering far fewer "inconsiderate" customers. They don't turn inconsiderate because I have learned how to deal with them better and this board contributes to this. (an example is the question of holdback which I now address completely different than any salesman I know and my current method of dealing with this smooths the process. Before my dealings on Edmunds Solara topic, this was a constant source of difficulties).

    I also hope that some people contact me to buy cars and trucks. I don't violate Edmund's policy against soliciting business but my profile has my phone number and e-mail. As a result of my participation here, I sell between 5 to 7 cars a month to Town Hall Customers. This justifies to my managers why I spend the time here I do. Beyond this, I often run into customers who walk in off the street who's buying decision has been influenced by what I have posted here.

    Unlike Dianne, I don't sell 700 cars a year. I'm on pace for just under 200 which qualifies me for Toyota's Gold Level Sales Society. This means that I have more time on my hands to handle e-mails and look up unusual information. When I am given an offer that does not come close to matching current market conditions, I do take the time to explain this. I like to think my responses are respectful but firm. Depending on how the offer is made, I may make a counter offer or I may not. I have time to do this because I sell far fewer cars than Dianne.

    Now, here is what scares me. Anybody can say anything they like about me here. They don't have to back it up and because I am a salesman, the customer will be believed anyway. Dianne and I both understand that we take a pretty big risk by being so active on this board. Dianne has a 95% CSI score but that means that 5% of her customers are less than "completely satisfied" for one reason or another. She may even have one or two out of 100 who are "completely dissatisfied" and those people are free to post anything they like on this board and there isn't a thing she could do about it.

    Ease up guys. We're doing our best to earn your respect. Maybe not your business, nor your agreement but at least your respect.
  • And now for something completely different...

    Things are getting a little too serious, so how about one of our salespeople telling us what's hot and what's not with Sequoia SR5 colors?
  • I never said anyone is entitled to a profit. When I said the dealers and salesmen have the right to make a profit, I thought it was obvious that they could only do so WHEN THEY COULD. I could not think of any other practical meaning to what I said. Your right to make a profit (as in engage in business) is not a guarantee to a profit. Yes, the law of supply and demand can mean both profit or loss to the business person.

    Yoss, in the gasoline business there are no Yugos, Ferraris, and everything in between.
  • In my best "California-speak:...

    I discount the green heavily because it doesn't work for me, girlfriend! ;>

    Hot for my own market is anything with the name Sequoia on the rear end of it! After that, folks seem to be hot on:

    Silver or desert sand SR5's (I suspect due to the color(s) looking one-tone vs. being obviously a duo-tone)

    Blue SR5's - scarce! I have two 4WDs here that I pre-sold weeks ago that have finally arrived.

    Thunder gray Limiteds, especially with the gray leather.

    Black Limiteds.

    White Limiteds with oak leather.

    Silver Limiteds.

    I think the least requested colors for me here are red and green...and they are Christmas-colors! :D I have had one request for chestnut, but we've never seen one yet.

    [email protected]
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Posts: 3,581
    We've sold everything that comes in but there is one color that scares me. That is that doo-doo brown color. One of my local competitors has one of these and it has been sitting for 2 weeks.
  • I got my Sequoia SR5 at exactly the MSRP, not a penny less, at about $38000, excluding tax. I also noticed the 2 clicking noise when you start driving the truck. Took it to the dealer and was told it is the ABS that is checking. I dounbt it. But I feel it is probably normal?. Also the G/M is at 11/g only. Was told that it has aluminium wheels. But the wheels look very rough not likely the regular ones at all. Don't know why. No side airbags either. Parking is not too bad as far as the turning radius is concerned. The engine noise is minimal. However, the wind noise is very noticable. Want to add two fog lights on, was told that each light will cost me $170 excluding labor and switch. I am in the middle of looking for a after market accessary that should be cheper. I feel the bakc seats are a little extra-bumpy. I also feel there is a mild but noticable cycling noise coming of the front, especially at low speed. The noise does not seem from the engine but rather some metal frictions. The service man. of the dealership claimed he did not hear anything abnormal. Has anybody noticed that?
  • ok, so finally someone else has brought up color. So, Dianne since you apparently have seen some blues, what color in another model that I can see best approximates the blue of the Seq? Is it a deep, alomost purple blue like I think the Stellar Blue of the Tundra or the lighter Denim Blue of the Sienna, or something else? I've GOT to buy A vehicle by 12/31. Help please.
  • Mine is blue and I was expecting the tundra blue/purple color, but it is all blue. I would basically call it a medium blue and the vehicle looks great in this color. I think it is darker than the blue on the Sienna.
  • volkovvolkov Posts: 1,306
    Plan on replacing the tombstones that came on my "other" full sized SUV. These run 265 70R16 too. The tire of choice with the GM crowd on their board seems to be the new Michelin LTX. Any of you folks with experience in these? Does the thicker sidewall of the BFG KO's make them run less comfortable than the AT version? I will be running the truck to trailheads, but these are usually logging roads, and not that often these days with the kids. So, as long as the tires don't blow up on me I'll live with slight reduction in handling for better performance as the giant family car. Any opinions appreciated.

    PS. I usually ride my Rocky Mountain Element Race with Marzocchi Flylight 100 and XTR with Race Face cranks. BUT you forgot the most important thing to make the connection. Continental Vertical Pro 2.3 or Rokko DH 2.4's depending on the conditions.
    Hoping to upgrade to a Turner XCE frame for next season. Last ride of the season yesterday. Trail completely frozen and also snow covered out of the deep woods. Nothing like riding a fast singletrack downhill...
    covered with ice patches...
    in the dark, which it was by the time we finished.
    But hey, I've got until May for the injuries to heal. Too bad I left half of my jacket on a couple of pine branches. Man those things are sharp and pointy.
  • volkovvolkov Posts: 1,306
    As I mentioned before the SR5 I almost bought was that blue. I agree it looks deeper and richer than the denim of the Sienna but it is a denim tone and not a bright or navy blue. I loved it. I just wish the Suburban came in that color, it's definately what I would have gotten.
  • There are couple of different Michelin LTX models....LTX M/S
    LTX A/T
    LTX A/S
    There is also the new Michelin Cross Terrain tire. They are supposed to be quiet riding, but aren't too aggressive off-road.

    I think if you want the best of both worlds, you might be better off with the BFG's or some Yokohama Geolander AT+ or Super Digger V's. The tread depths are deeper allowing for better self cleaning qualities. The tread is also slightly more aggressive allowing for better traction as well. All 3 of these tires are excellent on-road and quiet riding. I'm not sure what sizes are available in the Super Digger V's. The Geolander AT+'s might be replacing them. The Yokohamas last a very long time.

    You definately want to go to an All-Terrain type of tire. Most OEM tires are very street biased, no matter what the dealer may want to tell you. Once you hit dirt, they tend to slide more because of the tread design. The lugs in the tire just aren't deep or wide enough, not to mention weaker sidewalls. Not much protection there.

    -hope this helps
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Posts: 3,581
    You are absolutely correct about OEM tires. I have had the Dunlops on both my old T100 and now my Tundra. They actually perform extremely well in rain and ice. In fact, I am rather amazed how they do in ice but don't even think about mud. The tread fills with mud and makes them into slicks. If this truck was not on a lease, I'd swap them out immediately. As it is, I'll leave them and understand their limitations.
  • Does anyone know a souce on the internet where you can view accurate depictions of the colors used on the Sequoia? Also, for Dianne or Cliffy, if you fully equip a SR5 with options, what would the Limited have that the SR5 would not. I know about the fog lights and the rear spoiler. Also, I bought a Tundra Limited last December and now have about 22,000 miles on it. I have never had a vehicle that I like as well. The reason I have so many miles on it is because my wife drives it when I am gone instead of her Honda ex. She is the reason we are looking at the Sequoia. I agree that it is difficult to find a Toyota dealer that is reasonable. I have been to the local dealer in Tyler, Texas first to buy a car and then a truck and have left both times because they flat out lied to me. No, this is not sour grapes. I, like probably many others on this site, reseach for weeks the car for weeks, if not months before I buy. I usually know more about the vehicle than the saleman so for one I appreciate people like dianne and cliffy who answer our questions and try to give us a fair price. I finally bought my truck at a dealer in Dallas at Metroplex Toyota from a kid named Pat Shields whom I would recommend to anyone shopping in the Dallas area.
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Posts: 3,581
    There is a fairly good color chart on the Toyota we site at Go to the "shop at Toyota" button and configure your vehicle. There is a Java script that will show a complete picture in the color you select.

    As to equipment, the typical Limited equipment will also give you the side air bags plus you have heated seats and power folding side mirrors on the Limited. This is in addition to the fog lights, monochrome exterior and spoiler you mentioned.
  • rkjrkj Posts: 4
    Carmax in washington DC is offering sequoia's for $1000 under MSRP.
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Posts: 3,581
    Just about all of us in the DC area will take that deal as long as we can deliver it in the month of December.

    [email protected]
  • As for the specific items in SR5 vs. Limited, there is a section of the brochure that will describe the exact differences between the two, and you know that there are packages that bring the SR5 to the Limited levels of extras, while leaving off a few extras like the swing-in power mirrors, color-match overfenders, hammertone trim (hehehe) and different styled alloy wheels, fog lamps, and quite a few more "little things" like leather and such. You can find that info in both the brochure and the website for Toyota. And, I recall a thread in that detailed it all out as well.

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