Toyota Sequoia

rwelliott · January 2001

In response to phil62, Longo Toyota (who advertise themselves as the largest Toyota dealer in the world) in El Monte, CA advertised a Seq Limited for $2000 or $3000 below MSRP in the Sunday Los Angeles Times. I have not called the dealer to check whether the deal is really legit but when I spoke with Tim Sandquist of Manhattan Toyota (Manhattan Beach, CA) he commented that he would match any deal offered by Longo. Several years ago I did buy a new Toyota pickup from Longo after negotiating with all of the Toyota dealers in the greater Los Angeles area. At the time their initial offer was what I had to fight for at all of the other dealers I visited. I have no loyalty to any dealership--whoever will give me the best offer is who I am going to buy from. Again, I did not have Tim Sandquist of Manhattan Toyota put the deal on paper but the car we were talking about was a standard Limited edition with 763 miles put on by the owner (Burgundy in color). That is about all I can tell you about what I know and have been told but I will be paying close attention to what all of you say before I make a decision.

I realize that I may be dreaming to wait for a $35K price for a Limited in the near future. I will not need mine until April and May. If I haven't found such a great price by then I guess I will pay what the going price is. In the meantime I will continue to read all of your informative comments.

crudeoasis · January 2001

Someone should clue Toyota in that for some customers, the safety features are critical to sealing the deal. I notice in checking the inventory of Toyota dealers online in my region that only approx. 1 in 50 Sequoias come with the head/curtain airbag, which necessitates a factory order, which the dealers don't/won't do. Go figure.

bktv · January 2001

Gang--if you're in the west, it's pretty easy to find less than MSRP. pricing, if you're willing to wait. Just email Dianne at Carson Toyota, a frequent contributor to this board (dianne@earthlink.net). I live in Washington state, and should be picking up a new rig from her shortly.

rwelliott--As far as $35k for a LTD--no way amigo. That's right at or below INVOICE ($8-10k below MSRP), depending on how it's configured. Don't think you'll ever see a Toyota SUV ever going for invoice. If you want that price you'll have to look at the SR5.

Also--if the guy in Manhattan Beach told you he has a Limited in Burgundy waiting for you--he's lying, or extremely misinformed. No such vehicle. Limiteds only come in silver, white, thunder gray, and black (and maybe also green). Hope this helps.

oac3 · January 2001

sumo boy: I live in San Diego and recently purchased the Seq SR5 4x2 Silver Sky Metallic with AC, CC, CF, CQ, DR, PG, ST (upgraded to chrome alloy by dealer - American Racing wheels), PLUS leather seat and trim, all for a grand total of $34,741.... I like the deal and it was off MSRP by a *bit*. To get this deal, I had to go through the internet fleet manager of the dealership.

Hope this helps

jcnew4whlr · January 2001

I see more and more folks talking about going through the fleet or internet manager at a
dealer. How do ya' find them? Also, if Dianne or Cliffy can order and ship, why not just buy
that way?

I'm still looking for a dealer to trust in the great midwest. Past buying experiences here were
not positive. Have no problems in the service bay, but sales training is NOT customer based.

Anyone have thoughts or advice?

salm · January 2001

I paid $1500 over Dealer Invoice on my Seq Lmtd.
at a dealership in No. SD County, about 1 month ago.
It does have some problems with the 4WD/VSC system, but we knew about this up front and the dealership is fixing the problem.

On another subject, anyone interested in GPS, checkout these ALPINE products:
http://www.alpine1.com/html/products.html
Very High End unit. Can hook up CD, DVD, VCR, GPS
TV Tuner, multiple Monitors.

slickrock · January 2001

Say SALM, could you elaborate on the 4WD/VSC problems you mentioned in post 408? How did you know about them up front, and what the dealer is doing to fix them? Were they specific to your particular vehicle or might they crop up in any Sequoia? Thanks.

salm · January 2001

On the main display, there are 2 sets of lights
one that says VSC OFF and one that says VSC TRAC.
Both of these lights are constantly on.
I noticed this during the test drive.
Also, I've had problems with the differential locking on the 4x4 mode. The red center light is constantly flashing. It never is solid on.
I don't think this is the way it is suppose to work. Eventually, the light turns off, and the
4 green wheel light are on.
The dealer is scheduled to look at this problem later this week.
I don't know about other vehicles.
I really enjoy driving this car, whenever the wife lets me.

dianne4toyota · January 2001

In regards to the rumblings of a $35000 price for a Limited, my input is "no way". Impossible. That's just not going to happen. MSRP with the normal equipment is $41652, and with no moonroof, it's $40607 right now.

While I always wish everyone good luck with their own endeavors, I also feel the need to speak up in regards to that post because I would recommend the board members not use that # with which to gauge their own deals by because it's a ridiculous price to hope for or expect.

I have sold a lot of Sequoias to folks in/around the San Diego area due to the fact that the supply vs. demand there seems to be keeping their area dealers at MSRP, and I have been a couple thousand off MSRP at best on Limiteds, and depending on model, as much as $1000-$1500 off MSRP for the SR5's BUT San Diego and Orance County dealers in CA seem to be turning people away for build orders and for discounts.

Good to hear there are new and happy owners here to share the "VIBES" and the experiences. I wonder what color(s) folks are liking? My largest request is silver, followed very closely by white. Especially in Limiteds. The cars with "GY" (side curtain airbags) are 90% of my inventory --- they are not a hard vehicle to come by here. Side airbags seem to be in almost everything except for the really basic model SR5's.

-Dianne

salm · January 2001

On the main display, there are 2 sets of lights
one that says VSC OFF and one that says VSC TRAC.
Both of these lights are constantly on.
I noticed this during the test drive.
Also, I've had problems with the differential locking on the 4x4 mode. The red center light is constantly flashing. It never is solid on.
I don't think this is the way it is suppose to work. Eventually, the light turns off, and the
4 green wheel light are on.
The dealer is scheduled to look at this problem later this week.
I don't know about other vehicles.
I really enjoy driving this car, whenever the wife lets me.

cliffy1 · January 2001

Welcome to the discussion. I have been quite active in this topic and I encourage you to scroll back through the last several hundred posts. I am a salesman in Springfield VA and if you would like to contact me, my e-mail is sclifford@kjtoyota.com and the number is 703-451-0300 or 800 TOYOTA-4.

cliffy1 · January 2001

If the VSC off light is constantly on, you have a problem. It is probably the reason your 4WD sill not engage as well. Take it to your dealer and find out what is going on. Let us know.

whitediamond · January 2001

You mentioned to rwelliott that burgundy was not an option for the Sequoia Limited, you are correct. Toyota.com website lists all colors and availability for both models.

fazthands · January 2001

Okay, I am pretty much sold on the Sequoia. I am wining and dining the husband to at least "test drive" this rig. He loved the brochure. I have already emailed Dianne and that sounded promising to him too. My question is to the owners of this brand new rig. Are you really happy so far? I have never owned Toyota. I get nervous buying a car this expensive. It sounds like most of you are happy, with only a few glitches. I am leaving the Ford era of hell on wheels. I don't want my next car to have its transmission to fail at 70k miles like mine did. I can talk my husband into this car if I show him that their are enough people who believe in a "first year" rig. I know about the engine and such. But, honestly, its a brand new rig. Give me the ammunition.

crudeoasis · January 2001

Diane,

Now I'm the one who's shocked!

I guess it's a regional difference thing. I used Toyota's dealer locate on the Net, checked out all the on-line inventory (that was about 40-50 cars today that I clicked on at three difference dealerships -- these are the cars that are either there, now, or due in the next few weeks), and exactly ONE had the side air bags. Bet you can guess which one! up -- the $46 I LTD 4wd. Want side air bags? There it is! But ... they **all** had Toyo Guard for $600 (worth $50?). LOL. I just learned about the "special relationship" Toyota has with the Southeast region, and Toyota seems to have a keen sense of what's hot. I'd order from you (I think you said shipping would be like $500), but I really don't think that would fly very well with this Southeast Toyota Distribution thing that's frankly somewhat scary. I'm just going to have to cool my heals and wait until this market cools a little more, and Toyota's willing to make what I want, in this region. Weirdly, it's not a money thing at all because the car I want built MSRP's for $35,700, which is I think a very fair value, given how much you get in the Sequoia.

yalm · January 2001

After debating to stick with Toyota or venture over to oh MDX crowd, I am happy to have struck a deal for a Sequoia last Friday in the Tamp Bay area. I have a Carry with 170K and it still runs and looks great! Can't believe I even considered anything else. However, pricing was not the main influence in my (our) decision. Ended up with the following deal: SR5 4x4 I/ con pkg, side/curtain bags, power apt chairs, roof rack, mats, tint(rear), dual AC and daytime running lights.
MSRP. $37,955(DE Toyota figures) for $33,200 plus tax. Dealer did not have nor could they locate. Ended up ordering from Toyota without much of a stink. Fairly painless process and was surprised since after checking invoice pricing on Edmunds and Kelly Blue Book the purchase price was the same as invoice! Have made several calls to dealership and gave 1K deposit. Dealer told me this AM that they will call with approx ship date.
See...there is light at the end of the tunnel!

Good Luck to all.

rab4fdl · January 2001

Wow Yalm, you done good!!! My SR5 is 4x4, roof rack, tint windows, dual AC, tow package, those special rims (whatever they are) power captains chairs (no leather trim) con. package, etc, etc and my price was $37,725. You did great. I hope there's not some mistake.....like 4x2 waiting for you when you pick up!! I'd double check for sure.

As for the Toyota thing FAZTHANDS, I love mine! Granted, it only has 400 miles on it right now, but its sooooo nice. And if it performs anything like our old 4x4 P/U truck did, it will take a licking and keep on ticking! (175,000 miles with nothing but oil changes and brake pads...and maybe tires!) Toyota reputation is so incredible that I (and hubby) had no problem jumping into a first year rig. Have they ever made a product that sucked?? Not to my knowledge. Have your hub drive it and the rest will be history!

BTW, mine is Chestnut Pearle with the silver trim and you wouldn't believe all of the comments I'm getting on how beautiful the color is. It is really sharp.

Good luck!

Rosemarie

rwelliott · January 2001

bktv--you are correct. There is no Burgundy. What we drove at Toyota Manhattan was a green Limited. My wife reminded me that I am a "little color-blind."

rruck1 · January 2001

I got a good deal at Herb Chambers Toyaota in Boston. I was told that they would give $2000 off to anyone who works with them through the net first. I made contact with their internet sales director - Bob VanWert - and was able to close a deal in no time. They have been great to deal with. I would strongly suggest working with Bob. They also had a pretty good inventory.
I tried MANY other dealers in MA before working with them and there was no comparison. I was very disappointed in the dealer in Kingston MA who I had done business with before, but was unwilling to be reasonable this time.

rruck1 · January 2001

Took a long trip into the White Mountains of New Hampshire this weekend and the Sequoia was great! There are some pretty nasty hills that some of my previous cars had a hard time with (Montero, Raider, Quest), but the Sequoia climbed them without a problem.
We had a lot of snow and very cold temperatures this weekend, but had no problems with handling or heat. The windows do fog up when the defroster is off, but they seemed to clear in a resonable time when you switch it back on. As for the rear window - be happy that the side mirrors are nice and big and are heated. The rear defrost is only OK, but it didn't matter since the rear wiper is next to useless. Forget about seeing out the back window when the mud is flying up here.
The interior is very comfortable and flexible. We took out 1 of the 3rd row seats to accomodate our gear, kids and dog and I was amazed at the room! I thought I might be giving uip some space and seating flexibility when I traded in the minivan, but this is so much better!
I did have one unusual problem though. When I went to tumble the middle row passenger side seat forward the handle snapped off in my hand - I was stunned ( so was the dealer). It was bitterly cold out, but this should not happen. I will keep everyone up to date with my parts ordering experience now. The new handle is supposed to be in by Thursday, but the dealer was a little skeptical since this is a new model.
For the price of the vehicle my expectations are pretty high and so far it has met or exceeded most of them. So far I am very happy with my purchase.

layneo · January 2001

Picked up a SR5 about 2 weeks ago at Crystal AutoMall in New Jersey. Great dealership to work with--second auto purchased from the dealer. Excellent pricing, excellent service department. Walked into dealership having done my homework, walked out 2 hours later with a new Sequoia SR5! Their inventory was limited, but they were willing to deal a little. Had all "bell and whistles" except leather interior for $1700 below MSRP.
My major concern was inside space--was bought to replace a Grand Caravan--I have 3 kids with one almost 6 foot. All can fit in third seat including myself (I'm over 6 feet).
So far car has been great (and as someone else stated), when my wife lets me drive it! By the way, color is Forest Green and Gray--have had nice comments from people telling me they like the color scheme.

yalm · January 2001

Layneo..you say that your Sequoia is Green and gray. I will assume that those are the exterior colors? If so is the gray a true gray or more of a beige gray next to the green?

layneo · January 2001

Picked up a SR5 about 2 weeks ago at Crystal AutoMall in New Jersey. Great dealership to work with--second auto purchased from the dealer. Excellent pricing, excellent service department. Walked into dealership having done my homework, walked out 2 hours later with a new Sequoia SR5! Their inventory was limited, but they were willing to deal a little. Had all "bell and whistles" except leather interior for $1700 below MSRP.
My major concern was inside space--was bought to replace a Grand Caravan--I have 3 kids with one almost 6 foot. All can fit in third seat including myself (I'm over 6 feet).
So far car has been great (and as someone else stated), when my wife lets me drive it! By the way, color is Forest Green and Gray--have had nice comments from people telling me they like the color scheme.

crudeoasis · January 2001

The full-time 4x4 issue is vexing. Some people (Dianne, for example) have said you really don't need 4x4 in a climate like Florida's. Others (can't remember his name) said 4x4 in full-time mode is a great safety feature all the time, because if you're cruising down the freeway at 70mph and have to swerve suddenly, the 4wd will provide greater control and minimize skidding and a potential rollover. Who's correct??

The 4wd capabilities of the Sequoia are the single most confusing aspect of the car. I received the detailed Sequoia brochure from Toyota and it was very unclear on the 4wd issue. I even saw a post this morning (at www.tundra solutions.com, a great site!) where the owner says he can't figure out the 4wd and he's got the manual! My understanding is that if you engage the lever that locks the differentials ("low" 4wd) that's what'll damage the drivetrain if the surface is not extremely slippery. But I also understand that you can drive the Sequoia in "high" 4wd mode all the time, at any speed. **Is that correct**?

Thanks for any help, as I just found a dealer in S.FL that WILL special order a SR5 with side airbags.

cliffy1 · January 2001

I just posted this on the Tundrasolutions board. It is a fairly complete description of the 4WD system on the Sequoia, 4Runner, Land Cruiser, Tacoma and Tundra. I hope it helps clear things up. This will not answer your question as to whether you need 4WD or not though. That is a personal use issue. Oh and sorry this is so long. There is a lot to this.

How the 4WD systems work:

Beginning with the 2000 model year Land Cruiser, Toyota began using a new 4WD system called ActiveTrac. This same system was incorporated into all 2001 4Runners and the new 2001 Sequoias. The same basic system has also been used in the Mercedes M Class as well as post ‘99 Humvees.

These systems operate in essentially the same way with a few exceptions. When engaged, you have three open differentials working for you (front, rear and center). Open differentials are extremely reliable and require very little maintenance. If you have equal traction at all 4 wheels, power is evenly divided between them all. If one wheel begins to slip, the open differentials begin to send all available power to that one wheel. Normally, this would be very bad. This is when a traction control system (TRACS) takes over. TRACS, applies brakes selectively to a slipping wheel. This braking action literally fools the differentials into sending power everywhere except the slipping wheel.

When you are in 2WD (in the Sequoia and Runner), you still have traction control working for you. Obviously, this only will send power left to right but this is better than nothing. If neither wheel can gain traction and you are heavy on the throttle, you may end up tripping the second part of TRACS. If the wheels continue to slip, there is a rev limiter that takes over. This slows your engine down to about 2200 RPM. This reduced engine speed, combined with the selective braking will normally allow you to move forward at a reduced rate of speed.

On all three vehicle, you have the option of locking the center differential. It is rare that anybody would ever need to do this. On the Land Cruiser and 4Runner, this is accomplished by bushing a button on your dash. On the Sequoia, you shift into 4 wheel low and shift the transmission into “L”. This turns off the TRACS computer and the VSC system. The vehicle is now in a conventional 4WD mode. All 4x4 Toyota trucks have operated in this condition. You should not ever use this mode on dry pavement as you will damage the drive system and tires.

The other part of this system is the VSC or vehicle skid control. VSC will selectively apply brakes and throttle to prevent understeer or oversteer. It works in both 2 and 4 wheel drive. This is a rather amazing system and does an incredible job of giving the driver control of the vehicle. Understeer is responsible for a large number of SUV rollovers and oversteer is very common on icy surfaces. The Sequoia will allow you to turn off the VSC but I see no reason to ever do this.

None of the above information has anything to do with the system on the Tundra or Tacoma. Those are typical part time systems. Under good road conditions, you are in 2WD with the rear axle getting all the power. Power is again split between the right and left wheels. An open differential will route all power to one wheel if it can turn faster than the other. If this happens, you engage the 4WD system. This sends exactly half the power to the front axle where another open differential splits power. Between the front and rear axle, you will normally be able to gain forward traction but because of the open differentials, there is a possibility that you wont. Open differentials are vastly more reliable and longer lasting than limited slip differentials which is why Toyota has stuck with them.

With this part time system, you can engage it up to 62 MPH (50 MPH if you don’t have a push button system) but it really isn’t appropriate to drive it at this speed. Because the front and rear axles are turning at exactly the same speed, you can damage the system on dry pavement. This system is only appropriate for more severe conditions.

The advantages to this type of 4WD is simplicity and speed of engagement. You are not relying on brake sensors for your 4WD system and it should be more rugged. Also, unlike the Sequoia and 4Runner, the system engages the moment you shift into 4WD. The other models take several seconds and feet to engage.

layneo · January 2001

To yalm, the exterior is forest green and gray. The interior is a nice gray--FYI--hides light dog hair very well (have yellow labs).
There is one problem I am having--has someone been able to find heavy duty rubber mats and cargo liner? I have the nice carpet Sequoia mats, but I want to cover them. Tried McNeil automotive, but was told that the mats are only available. The cargo liner won't be available until Feb. They also didn't know if the liner would be for behind second and third seats or third seat only. Anyone know where I can get right now the mats and liner?

cliffy1 · January 2001

Because of how the Sequoia and 4Runner system work, you can use them at any speed. You must be below 62 to engage it but after it is engaged, you can drive as fast as is safe without damage to the system. You will probably loose a couple of miles per gallon.

oac3 · January 2001

I have read of two isntalls of a TV/VCR system in the Seq on this board. I am in the market for a similar system, but I am getting quotes of between $1700 (single flip-down 5.6" TFT/VCP and 2 wireless headphones) and $2500 (TV screens in front headrest plus DVD player). Does anyone know what the best going prices are on these systems before I commit to either one ?

Thanks for your help on this

dianne4toyota · January 2001

I read that and nearly fell out of my chair. Better not be "cruisin" or flying down the freeway in 4WD at 70. Yikes!

My advice to the fellow in Florida who wondered about the value of the 4WD to him, I answered his question geographically. Bearing in mind there is no snow there, and the traction issue is easily handled with the VSC/TRAC that is standard on the cars.

As for the colors, nothing's changed since their debut, and the colors are easily found in the Sequoia brochures as well as via the internet.

Good to see a few other dealers starting to sell for a little less. Really.

-Di
dianne@earthlink.net

brillmtb · January 2001

Thanks for the review on the 4wd systems.

Can the Seq center diff also be locked in 4wd hi mode or just the low range? Also, it seems that in low range the VSC and TRAC turn off from what you said, is that right? Would this then make the Sequoia a 2wd with one wheel in front and one in back getting power but never more than 2 wheels getting power?

If this is true then low range seems somewhat pointless because the high range can take advantage of the Trac/Vsc to get power to any of the wheels, perhaps power to 3 out of 4 at one time or is this incorrect?

movan · January 2001

The Rosen system I bought at Best Buy was on sale w/free installation for $1000. It had wired headphones and mono VCR.

cliffy1 · January 2001

In 4 Low, the center differential is not locked, nor is the VSC and TRACS disabled unless you also put the transmission into low as well. This locks the center and disables the other systems. My posting was unclear because of some software glitches in Edmunds that doe not seem to recognize quotation marks or apostrophes.

Dianne, 70 in 4WD in the Sequoia is nothing like 4WD in the Tundra or even last year's Runner. If you can drive a Land Cruiser over 70 MPH, you can drive the Sequoia at (or over) 70 MPH.

rdsterl · January 2001

SE Toyota distributors operates in a similar manner to Gulf States Toyota, in that each dist. is a separate entity, making its own decisions about ordering, I'm sure with some factory overseeing. The frustrating part is that they like to add leather, but to add their *aftermarket* leather to a SCABs-equipped vehicle probably decreases the SCABs effectiveness. So to minimize liability, they've ordered alot of SR5's with cloth and no SCABs, and pork up the price with their $1100, and quickly profit $5-600, more if you add all the other junk they stuff 'em with. Look at the sticker next time you're on the lot. The last red "box" of options is everything they installed, sometimes upwards of $4k worth!

My advice: find a dealer (like dianne4toyota or cliffy1) who will get you what you want. Don't settle for anything less. You are the one who will pay for this truck. Yes, it's expensive vis-a-vis the domestic "competition" |LOL!| but the technology, safety and reliability of this Toyota are two generations ahead of the domestics.
Drive and I'm 93.881% sure you'll buy. We just won't buy from the dealers here in Shreveport.

Sorry so long. Hope I won't be flamed! ;}

crudeoasis · January 2001

Drew, in message 383, said:

"Here is why you should leave the Sequoia in full-time 4WD mode all of the time. Please read all 3 pages:

http://www.4x4abc.com/4WD101/need.html
http://www.4x4abc.com/4WD101/tractionturn2.html
http://www.4x4abc.com/4WD101/tractionturn4.html

As you can see, full-time 4WD will dramatically improve handling, especially in emergency maneuvers. This is all the more important with such a large and heavy truck like the Sequoia. Since the engine power is equally routed/distributed to all four wheels instead of just two, the traction control/stability control is much less likely to intervene since four tires have less torque (individually) and are less likely to be overwhelmed."

And then Cliffy in msg. 429 said:

"Because of how the Sequoia and 4Runner system work, you can use them at any speed. You must be below 62 to engage it but after it is engaged, you can drive as fast as is safe without damage to the system. You will probably loose a couple of miles per gallon."

So Diane, my question is, if you have more control in 4wd (per Drew's post) and Cliffy's correct that speed isn't an issue with 4wd in the Sequoia, then what's the big deal about cruisin' at 70 in 4wd? If something falls off a truck and I have to swerve at speed (and 70 isn't that unusual of a speed these days), wouldn't I be better off with the 4wd in full-time mode?

movan · January 2001

The Rosen system I bought at Best Buy was on sale w/free installation for $1000. It had wired headphones and mono VCR.

cliffy1 · January 2001

Go easy on Dianne. She has FAR more knowledge on most vehicles than most salesmen and the Sequoia is unique for Toyota. On every other part time system we have had, she would be correct about fast driving with the 4WD engaged. I happen to have an edge in technical information and you are correct about the AWD system. Any time you have all 4 wheels with available power, you will have better handling characteristics.

dianne4toyota · January 2001

If the traction, roads, or snow are SO bad that you really need the 4WD engaged, then I cannot imagine moving at 70 MPH at all. That comment as to the "cruisin" or "flying down the road" under those circumstances (combined with my "yikes") were just a personal observance. Yikes! I guess I can't imagine doing 70 MPH under those conditions without it being dangerous.

And, for the Toyota dealership in Santa Barbara, whine all you want. I can say anything I want to in private emails to *anyone* who emails me for help, and furthermore, I can quote whatever pricing MY market will bear.

--Dianne
dianne@earthlink.net

drew_ · January 2001

You don't have to be going 70mph for 4WD to stabilise the vehicle. It helps at any speed on all surfaces (which is why I say to leave it on all of the time), but its effects are more prevalent at high speeds when the tires reach their tractive limit quicker. Four drive wheels can put down the power better than only two. All of this is explained in the 3 links that I provided in my earlier message. BTW, VSC is just as important (and perhaps more so) in emergency maneuvers. Combine VSC + 4WD and you have one of the most stable full-sized SUVs out there.

Drew
Host of Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards

crudeoasis · January 2001

Thanks for all the info.

Rdster1, thanks for your explanation on the lack of SCAB's on the SR5; now I understand why SCAB's essentially don't exist on the SR5's handled by Southeastern Toyota. As I recently said, I *finally* found a local dealer who will order it my way, but it was a difficult challenge; most of the dealers were not interested in a build-to-suit.

Dianne and Cliffy, the #1 issue for me in a big rig like the Sequoia is safety, and the curtain/head airbags were a big selling point. Similarly, I was going to forego the 4wd until I read Drew's post (confirmed by Cliffy) that I will have better **emergency** handling regardless of the weather or surface conditions. I think I was misunderstood when I said flying down the highway at 70, I meant under perfect conditions, dry, great visibility, etc. From everything I've gotten from this rather complex 4wd discussion, it seems clear to me now that I will have better emergency handling with 4wd permanently engaged -- even under perfect conditions -- than I would with 2wd.

Drew, thanks for your links -- they were invaluable!

With that, I'm off to get the purchase order (and 4wd)! Thanks for all your help.

cliffy1 · January 2001

I just got off the phone with Dianne about another issue and we discussed this one. It seems she had made the assumption that we were talking about driving 70 in snow which would be patently unsafe in anything. You are correct that the Active-Trac in the Sequoia will give some handling benefits on dry pavement at the cost of a bit of fuel economy.

Congrats on the decision and enjoy the Sequoia 4WD.

oac3 · January 2001

movan:

thanks for your prompt response... But, were you not going to return this unit, or did I read your earlier message wrong ? And if you were going to return it, are you doing it based on quality, cost or simply lack of need for it ?

Will appreciate your response on the above

slickrock · January 2001

Cliffy, not to take issue with you, but I agree with brillmbt that if locking the center differential disables ActiveTrac, then "low range seems somewhat pointless" and the system is virtually worthless off-road. Think about it. If the center differential is locked but you don't have ActiveTrac to direct torque away from a slipping wheel, then all you really have in a pinch is a 2WD vehicle (one in the front, and one in the rear).

Neither the Hummer nor the Mercedes systems work the way you describe. Based on what I have read, I believe that it is true that VCS is disabled in low-low, but I don't believe that ActiveTrac is disabled. I think your description is in error on this point.

On a related point, you wrote "when you are in 2WD ... If the wheels continue to slip, there is a rev limiter that takes over. This slows your engine down to about 2200 RPM. This reduced engine speed, combined with the selective braking will normally allow you to move forward at a reduced rate of speed."

I think this explains what happened to foobarguy in post 357 when, as he said "I tried to merge into traffic from a stop, the traction control kicked in and stopped me dead due to the power down feature of the traction control".

Moral, don't spin all four wheels. Accelerate smoothly.

cliffy1 · January 2001

You're missing a couple of points here. If you are in 4 wheel low but don't put the transmission into low, the VSC and TRACS still works and your center differential is still active. When you shift the transmission into low, the center differential is locked which renders the TRACS useless since power can't be sent front to rear. In this mode, it is the same as any conventional 4WD truck. This is the exact mode my Tundra is in when I put it into 4WD and I don't think there is much doubt as to its off road capability.

I also mentioned that I see very little reason to ever lock the center differential. I stand by that statement. If I owned it, I can't imagine a situation where I would lock the center differential. If I needed the low gear range, I would not want to lock it and would not shift my transmission into low.

Now, you are correct about one thing. The Mercedes does not do this. In fact, I don't think the Mercedes has the option to lock the center nor to shift into a low gear range.

fazthands · January 2001

This is to Rosemarie (rab4fdl). You mentioned the Chestnut Pearl and silver trim. Which silver is it? Is it Warm Silver or Silver Sky? We don't have a lot of SR5's around here. Everyone wants the Limited. I don't know which way to go yet. Let me know. Thanks everyone for comments on how you like it. I need to hurry up and get my husband into one before summer gets here. Dianne says the orders are piling up. Chow!!!

cliffy1 · January 2001

If you ever plan on reselling the Sequoia, don't get the chestnut color. It is far too brown. One local dealer has had one for over 6 weeks and still can't sell it.

slickrock · January 2001

When we are rock climbing, it is necessary to go as slow as possible to avoid damaging the vehicle. The reason to use low-low in this situation is to give you enough RPM's (and thus enough power) to get up a hill while going as slowly as possible. A total gear reduction of 50:1 (low gear * low range * differential * torque converter slip) is not unreasonable in conditions like this.

If your right front wheel climbs a rock going uphill and you therefore lose traction on your left front and right rear (it's very common to be balanced diagonally in vehicles with limited suspension articulation like the stock Toyota trucks and SUV's), then without Active Trac (or front or rear lockers), you are stuck dead.

You could try it an experiment -- get in a Sequoia 4WD, and put the transfer case in low range and put the transmission in low. As you put it into low, what (if any) indicator lights change? Then start your right front wheel up onto a high curb or mound (at least a foot high) until the LF or RR tire is off the ground. Throw soapy water under the left front and right rear if you want. Then try to continue to accelerate up the incline.

Does the vehicle continue up, like a Hummer or Mercedes, or does it get stuck, spinning the LF and RR wheels aimlessly? Do you hear the Active Trac system clicking in to help? Try the same thing with a Landcruiser. Does the trusty LC get stuck?

I can't believe that the Toyota Engineers don't understand this.

slickrock · January 2001

Hi Cliffy -- Oops, I forgot one thing -- you said "When you shift the transmission into low, the center differential is locked which renders the TRACS useless since power can't be sent front to rear."

You certainly don't need TRACS to shift power front to rear -- a locked center diff does that. But TRACS is not useless, because you need it to shift power from left to right (LF <--> RF, and LR <--> RR). If your left front is slipping, it applies the brake and sends powere to the right front. Same for the real. That's what it's suppose to do anyway. Ans I'll bet if you try it, it'll do it.

cliffy1 · January 2001

Why shift into low on the transmission? If you are in D or 2, the transmission starts off in L anyway but will upshift only as you gain speed. By shifting into low, you limit yourself to the lowest gear. By doing this, the ActiveTrac remains effective.

Now, in answer to the LC question, the ActiveTrac works all the time unless you hit the center differential lock button on the dash.

I guess in the absolute extreme, the Sequoia looses something but only if you need the A-Trac but must for some reason stay in 1st gear.

cliffy1 · January 2001

By the way, when I was at the training class, I asked why the TRACS would not work with a locked center differential and didn't get a good answer. I agree that there should be no reason for it not to work for side to side power transfer but that is the way it is.

cliffy1 · January 2001

Does the ML even have a low gear range?

Toyota Sequoia

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