Certified Pre-Owned Vehicles

rroyce10 · May 2005

.......... Kyfdx brings up some good points .. most important is that the CPO is a warranty, not a magic wand that was waved over the vehicle by the Penske race team and made it all better ......

That said, you do have some major issues here and you need to get them all listed and handled "immediately", if not sooner ... this is a Honda - not a Hyundai and what bothers me is, you have multiple issues like the air bag light, the brakes are funky and the tranny just coughed-up a lung, kinda almost rare ... did you do a Carfax on this and have you checked the service history via the Honda computer with the Vin# ..? ... it makes me "think" maybe it was in an accident or perhaps whacked hard, I can't say and I'm just guessing ...

Anyhoo ...... the car can't be driven with the airbag light on, because it's a big safety issue ... so get your list, get with the GM of the store and have them put you in a driver until the whole thing is completed and done to your satisfaction .....

Terry.

rroyce10 · May 2005

....... Do you live in Canada ........ ?

Terry.

mookmeister · May 2005

Yes. Toronto to be exact.

steine13 · May 2005

" Anyhoo ...... the car can't be driven with the airbag light on, because it's a big safety issue ... so get your list, get with the GM of the store and have them put you in a driver until the whole thing is completed and done to your satisfaction ....."

There's air bag lights, and there's air bag lights.

If it's really just the occupancy sensor in the pass seat, then it's working properly.
If it's something else, then I'm thinking you're on to something.

usedcarfan, you gots to get past the anger and the blood pressure. Figure out what's really wrong with this thing. Don't jump to conclusions, but a good look at the body is in order:
http://www.msu.edu/~steine13/paintwork.html

BTW, the Bill W site comes up as "suspended". It was bound to happen someday. Good thing we have a copy, eh?

-Mathias

awarrick · May 2005

I am thinking of getting a used Toyota from a Ford dealer. They say it's certified and been through their inspection program. So, is it a "Ford" certified program? or a "Toyota" program? and when I see "Toyota" certified used cars at Toyota dealers they offer a 100k mile warranty. My Ford dealer said, 36k/3yr. Which is it?

isellhondas · May 2005

A car can certainly be driven with the air bag light on. This just means the air bag probably won't deploy if needed.

A lot of cars don't even have air bags.

brianmarcnyc · June 2005

I was reading through the edmunds forums and came across this discussion on Honda's pre-certified cars.

I went with my dad to a dealership in Long Island, New York to look at a specific 2002 Honda Accord EX V6. When we looked at the car, we noticed that it had 1,100 more miles on the odometer than they had advertised and the interior of the car had mud and dirt on the mats and seats. The dealer said that this car was being driven by one of the salesmen, thus the condition.

This is where it gets puzzling. I was told that when we purchase the car, the dealershp performs the Honda Pre Certification for a $400 additional charge and that they also charge an additional $600 for the cleaning and detailing. When I called Honda and told them that I was being charged this, they said that this was not Honda of N.A. policy to charge for the 150 point inspection and that the car should be in sale-able condition when put on the lot.

Being that we put a deposit on the car, unknowing about the above policy, I feel that we are being cheated with charges we should be paying. The invoice only lists the sum of the car without these fees, so I can't prove to Honda that we are being charged for them.

Can I refuse to purchase this car now, or can I show the dealing something in writing from Honda that states their policy. They are also offering to charge us 1,300 for the 7 year/100,000 warrantee, but I am becoming leery of dealing with them on any of this.

Thank you in advance.

Brian, New York

qbrozen · June 2005

I thought the certified cars already come with an extended warranty??

If you didn't take delivery of the car, you can opt not to purchase it.

kyfdx · June 2005

Basically, when you buy a CPO car, you are just buying the warranty..

So, you need to get a bottom line price for the car... where the only thing added is tax and registration..

If that price is okay with you, and the car is satisfactory, then take it.. If it isn't, then negotiate lower, or ask for your deposit back. It sounds like they are trying to confuse you on the price of the car..

Until you take delivery, there is no deal, and they cannot keep your deposit.

regards,
kyfdx

brianmarcnyc · June 2005

That's just what I thought. I called other Honda dealers yesterday who told me that all of their cars come with this authorization.

If we decide not to take it, I'm concerned that we signed an agreement to purchase this car, and can be held liable to this contract.

brianmarcnyc · June 2005

When I spoke to Honda, they said that when I confront them with this this knowledge, they will probably back down.

Now I am concerned that this dealer's dishonesty is a reflection of the whole operation and that the dealer's inspection and service on the car isn't 100%.

For what is is worth, I also discovered that this car was bought by the dealer at auction - probably just after the car was off lease. I was told by Honda that I can contact the original dealer about the service on this car, but cant be certain that all of the service was done by them.

isellhondas · June 2005

I wouldn't buy the car. Just get your deposit back. Buying a car at auction is no big deal. Dealers get a lot of cars that way and a lot of these are lease returns.

You can'[t really contact the previous owner because of privacy laws and even if you could, how would you know they would be telling you the truth?

For about the same dollars, you could probably buy a NEW Civic. Then you wouldn't have to worry.

kyfdx · June 2005

I agree with isellhondas.. Too many things to worry about with this dealer, and you already don't trust them... Don't worry, they can't keep your deposit or hold you to a contract on a car that you haven't taken delivery of ....

But, don't worry about auction cars.. that is where 95% of the cars on a new car dealer's lot come from.

Just start over and look for another car.. A new Civic is a great idea, but if you want an Accord, there are thousands of them coming off lease every week.. It won't be hard to find another one.. And, remember.. CPO just means you are buying a warranty.. It is still a used car, and you want to find a good one.

regards,
kyfdx

isellhondas · June 2005

It won't get certified. they have to meet some pretty strict standards.

rroyce10 · June 2005

... **For what is is worth, I also discovered that this car was bought by the dealer at auction - probably just after the car was off lease** ..

Probably 65/75% of the vehicles you see are from one auction or another, no biggie and it happens every minute of every hour of every day ... where else can a dealer get inventory when most of their trades are usually dented up high milers ..l.o.l....

Anyway, back to the CPO thing ... most certified vehicles are nothing more than a warranty .. the inspection usually consists of a ride around the block, maybe a tire rotation, an oil change and a good detail .. the cost comes from the "certified warranty" which runs in and around $900 to $2 grand depending on the vehicle and the mileage .....

Just like the rest said, if you feel uncomfortable ~ just p-a-s-s ......

Terry

brianmarcnyc · June 2005

Thanks for all of the advice. I called Honda of NA today and was surprised to hear that the CPO 150 point inspection et al, is NOT a mandate to be offered on used Hondas that fall into their acceptable 3 year / 36 mile category. So any Honda dealer can do just this: Offer cars well below the kelly book value, and then begin to tack on the charges to start bringing the price back up.

As for the CPO certificate, I naively hope that the 150 point test is more than the a ride around the block and an oil change!

I'm probably most surprised by Honda that the additional warrantee coverage that is available isn't at a set rate since it is a nationwide program. Haggling for every element attached to owning these cars is really souring the experience.

isellhondas · June 2005

I can't speak for other stores but this is how we handle certified cars...

It's a lot more than a drive around the block! We do an intense inspection before we decide to certify the car or not. Honda makes us throw away perfectly good brake pads as an example that I know I could get another 25,000 miles out of because they have less than a certain thickness of material.

If the tires are more than 1/2 way worn out, they make us replace them. Cars have to have nice floor mats, owner's manuals, extra keys and remotes etc.

When we are done, these cars are in top shape. Of course, we do pretty much the same thing with ALL of our used cars. We wholesale the rough trades.

kyfdx · June 2005

I think this just about says it all..

I bought a CPO Honda for my niece once.. They hadn't really touched the car before I made the deal... And, we had to bring it back for any number of things that should have been done before we took delivery..

To their credit, they fixed everything with no issues.. But, there is no one looking over their shoulder to make sure they do what is required..

Your dealership sounds great... I'd bet most of them aren't like that.. We hear of enough CPO "horror stories" in these discussions to make me think it happens a lot..

I'll reiterate.. the only thing you are getting for sure is the warranty.. Have the car checked out..

regards,
kyfdx

isellhondas · June 2005

You will know the service has been brought up to date. You will know your brakes and tires have more than half their life left etc. This car will typically be " a head above the crowd" in addition to the warranty.

kyfdx · June 2005

Who makes sure of the brakes and tires? You know that your dealership does that, but that doesn't mean all Honda dealerships follow policy..

I continue to disagree.. The only thing that you know you are getting is the extended CPO warranty.. You should get a better car, but that is no guarantee..

regards,
kyfdx

isellhondas · June 2005

It isn't an option...the Honda dealers HAVE to replace the things that Honda requires. I suppose they could cheat the system but I don't think they would want to take the risk. I seriously doubt that happens. The shop likes the extra work!

steine13 · June 2005

Your store sounds like a real stand-up operation, and I don't mean the comedic kind.

But I'm with Walt on this one... just cuz the rules say the store has to replace them, I don't think the Honda Fariy comes and looks for the old brake pads under the floor mats.

There are plenty of rancid dealerships out there, and I doubt that Honda is an exception. See Walt's story about the CPO Civic.

"Turn 'em and burn 'em..."

-Mathias

isellhondas · June 2005

And I'm sure there are dealers somewhere who cut corners. I doubt if this is the norm however.

rroyce10 · June 2005

............. Most of your Honda dealers with do what has to be done .. meaning, it will replace tires if need - not required .. will replace brakes if needed - not required ......

There is what.? 1,100 Honda dealers out there.? .. and probably 400/500 will meet the requirements ... it depends on the store and what they feel is right or wrong, some dealers feel $250/$300 is enough spent and some feel $250/$300 is too much, so don't take it personal Isell ...

I just spent $350 on a 00 Altima GLE with 100k .. new air gas and oil filters, new battery, new cap wires and plugs, new front brakes and all new belts .. and I'm going to send it the auction, if I can get my $$ back, fine .. if not, I will bring it back and put it on the lot -- everyone is different ..

Terry.

gutiarman · June 2005

after buying a car,if you totally do not like it, can you return it? legally do you have a grace period that you can get out of a contract? any info would be gratefull! ron

isellhondas · June 2005

Unless that dealership has a return policy you own the car. There is no "grace" or "cooling off" period with cars.

They might be willing to exchange it for something different.

mpass · June 2005

A question - I am about to buy a CPO Acura and want to also purchase an AcuraCare extended warranty. Is there such a thing as a wrap around AcuraCare warranty to go with the certified pre-owned coverage or do I have to buy the standard AcuraCare warranty and, in effect, pay to cover the stuff that comes free under the CPO warranty? Thanks!

cadillacmike · June 2005

I bought my wife's 2005 CTS as a Cadillac Certified Pre-owned vehicle - with a 6 yr, 100,000 mile factory warranty (nice). They have a "125 point checklist" yeah, yeah, yeah. I still hav ethe original checklist, but this is wierd:

The brakes are supposed to be checked. We've had no problem in about 10,000 miles. But in order to check the brakes you need to pull the wheels.

Well, I was going to have the wheels balanced and rotated and the dealer calls me up to inform me that the right front wheel is bent. I go over there and sure enough there is a small dent as if from a curb, or maybe a LARGE pothole, but it's in the INSIDE edge of the wheel?!?!?! I don't drive it much, but I don't get any vibration or anything like that at any speed, and my wife never mentioned hitting anything, and if she did, it would have needed to really jolt the car. I'm not having the wheel replaced (at least not right away) because it's like a $600.00 wheel!

I think it was already dented when we bought it and nobody noticed it you wouldn't have been able to tell unless it was put on a spin balancer in any event. Even on the spin balancer, if you mast your view of the wheel rin, the tire does not appear out of round, so it's not affecting handling. My problem is in convincing them that that my wife didn't hit something. I guess it's either that or the local "recycling" shop (aka junkyard) for a wheel!

mangs · August 2005

I'm planing to buy certified 2003 BMW 325i/2003 Infiniti G35/Lexus ES300 but not sure which of them are more reliable and fuel efficient. I'm looking for more engine power though.

kyfdx · August 2005

Power: G35... ES300.... 325i

Fuel Efficiency: 325i.. ES300.. G35

Reliability: ES300... G35.. 325i

mangs · August 2005

Thanks kyfdx, that was helpful. I have one more question : For a 2002 BMW 325 with 37559 miles and premium package, auto tran, xenon lights, dealer is asking for $25,995. Is it a good price for that car?
Thanks in advance.

rroyce10 · August 2005

......... **2002 BMW 325**

Which one ..................................?

Terry.

kyfdx · August 2005

Coupe? Sedan? Color? Condition? Location (city/state)?

hunt4car · August 2005

I'm thinking about buying a Certified BMW 325i, 2004 with about 20, 000 miles from a BMW dealer. They are asking $30,000 which I think is too high (given that the residual value for a 2006 325i BMW after a 2 year lease is $27100).

I wanted to know your thoughts on what a reasonable price is for the 2004 BMW 325i (it has leather and power seats and auto transmission and that's it).

Also, when looking at the Certified market is it worthwhile to run a VIN number check? I'm also looking at a similarly priced 2005 325i BMW with 13000 miles but not certified (comes with BMW 4yr/50000 miles). Is it worth doing a VIN check for the 2005?

Any other suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks.

Hunt4car

cmw208 · October 2005

I purchase two cars at one time. One was for me the other for my boyfriend. I felt like I was forced into that purchase but now I can't make the payment on my vehicle. Both cars are in my name but my boyfriend gives me his payments. They are both 2005 Mitsubishi Lancer ES one silver, the other grey. I want to know if I want to trade in each car separately for a pre-owned honda accord and nissan maxima is that possible at all? Or if I trade in both at the same time could I get one pre-owned car and have nearly no car payment at all?

qbrozen · October 2005

depends on alot of things.
1. what the cars are worth now (my guess is "much less than you think")
2. how much you put down on them (and, as a direct result, how far "upside-down" you are in the loans)

If the answers to 1 and 2 are not good, then chances are you'd be looking at carrying alot of negative equity into another car(s), thereby making them very costly.

isellhondas · October 2005

If they bought those Mitsubishis under that Nothing Down, Zero Interest program theyt had going. Few cars depreciate as fast as a Mitsubishi.

Probably no good news here.

mitzij · October 2005

You can't trade the Lancer even-up for a used car. You will owe the difference between what the Lancer is worth and how much you owe (I'm guessing several thousands) PLUS the cost of the used car. Trade in both cars and you'll have double the debt.
You can't get out of a hole if you keep digging.

You probably could trade both and get used cars, but you'll still end up paying for this deal. The only way to have a little car payment is to not borrow much. If you want to have no car payment, pay CASH, or ride a bike.

missileman · October 2005

I don't have much experience buying cars. Until his death, we always bought from my Father-in-Law. Good dealership and great people. He always gave us the best deal that he could.

Yesterday, I found an '05 Accord EX, Leather, Nav, 4 cyl with 26K that I was interested in. Since the car was about 180 miles away in another state, I was dealing via email. Based on my research of 3 internet sites, I determined that dealership had around $18,500 in the car (average trade in value of the 3 sites). I know I was 3K upside down in my car. I added that so now I'm at $21,500. Since it's a CPO, I added $1000 ($22,500) for the warranty.

Since I live in another State, I think I would pay the sales tax in the State where I live and where the car would be titled. I didn't think these fees would be involved in the sale.

I know the dealer has to make a profit so I made an offer of $24,500 out the door.

I guess I insulted them because they called ( all previous correspondence had been email) and said they couldn't accept my offer and they didn't even make a counter offer. I got the feeling that I was so far off that they didn't want to waste their time on me.

So, where did I go wrong?

jproc · October 2005

I can't answer as to what the car you are interested in is worth but what does the 3k you are upside in your present car have to do with what you are offering on the Honda?

If you were 10k upside down would you have offered 30.5? Sorry but you are not making much sense here.

Assuming that 18.5 is valid for trade-ins you're offer was too high!

missileman · October 2005

Thanks jproc,

What I was trying to do is add the difference between the trade in value of my car and the payoff (3K) into the financing of the new car. I figured that if the trade in was 5k and the payoff was 8k, I could either finance the 3k difference or pay it myself. I was going to roll it into the new car payment.

Does that make sense or am I still not explaining it right?

Thanks again.

jproc · October 2005

Okay I understand your post now.I suspect you simply didn't offer enough than for the car.Go the the Trade in Values discussion here A guy named Terry knows what these cars are worth and He will help you out.
Good luck

missileman · October 2005

OK, thanks for your help and pointing me in the right direction.

qbrozen · October 2005

i'm guessing that since you mentioned getting trade-in values from internet sites (let's say KBB, edmunds, and NADA - am i close?) ... then I can tell you all of your numbers are most likely wrong. Its rare that any online pricing sites are accurate as to the true auction value (trade-in value) of vehicles. As someone else said, asking Terry is your best bet. Otherwise, if you really want the closest numbers possible from an internet site, you'll need to go to galves.com and pay a fee to view their numbers. But those can also be wrong depending on where you reside. They are most accurate for the northeast U.S.

cros · October 2005

Where can I find the 50% requirement for California in writing? Thank you

mightymoe · October 2005

For the longest time I have been looking for a decent 330xi with nav, finally found one and it was sold. The other one I am looking at right now under carfax it states it used to be a lease than commerical? anyone have any feedback on commecial and its worth my time to travel 2 states away to look at it? help me out here.

rroyce10 · October 2005

...... It's no big thing if the history is super clean, the service is 110%, it's knee deep in rubber and it's seen no Maaco time .. oh yeah, and the price is right ..........

Terry.

funtai · October 2005

How can I make sure a car is CPO? After reading this thread I've talked (emailed) with a salesman who set me on edge.

I responded to an ad which mentioned that the car in the ad was "certifiable". That doesn't mean much though - the car just needs to be less than 6 years old with less than 80,000 mi, right? After I emailed, asking for a lower price, the salesman told me the car was honda certified. However, I've looked for CPO cars in the area and this isn't listed as one on the search engine from Honda's site, and this dealer isn't listed as a CPO (or regular) Honda dealer either. Is wasn't sure whether or this was suspicious, so I looked up the dealer's BBB listing, and even though the dealer claims to have been in business for two decades, the "open file" date is file years ago.

I don't know if all certified used cars are listed on the website, if any dealer can certify a used car, or what the "open file" date is, so I don't know if I should actually be wary of this dealership. Am I just being paranoid?

rroyce10 · October 2005

.... **Am I just being paranoid? ... **

I don't think you're being paranoid .. your just making sure that you get what you pay for ....

"Certified" vehicles are not going to show up all, or even part of the time ....... remember what a CPO is - it's nothing more and nothing less than a "extended warranty" .. and there is a charge for that warranty, and depending on the vehicle, anywhere from $800 to $2,800 ......

"certifiable" means it meets the basic standards so the warranty can be put into play -- it doesn't mean it's "certified" with a standing warranty ......... if the mileage is right and the history is better and you're not going to drive 45/50k a year, then your probably better off not taking the warranty ... a CPO is more for "peace of mind" only .. if you can't live without it and you find the vehicle of your dreams, then there is a complete set of paperwork and coverage that goes with the vehicle .. just make sure you see it and have all of the copies *before* delivery ....

"certifiable" .... just like me.

Terry

ynotps · October 2005

I just purchased an 05 Buick LeSabre Custom from a local dealer. The car has 20,000 miles (which is high), asking price was $19,340 CPO - I paid $14,800 plus TTL. I'm happy with the deal, other than the mileage. However, I only drive abou 4,000 miles per year, so it will even out in a year or so. I did a Carfax report, it was perfect. What a great time to buy a used car as far as prices go!!!

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