Certified Pre-Owned Vehicles

carteach · November 2006

Thanks for all your advice about the certification program.After reading a lot about the ES Lexus, I decided not to buy even a CPO vehicle. There have been so many complaints about serious transmission problems; and a number of people have been given new cars because of this. My feeling is that these cars could go to buyers like me who would have no Lemon Law protecting them.

I love the Lexus interior. But I'm buying an entry level luxury car for the amenities and reliability.

beardie · November 2006

Sound like you're making a wise decision. I'm looking at a Cadillac DTS as my next car. I want a CPO model, but I feel that adding approx. $1500 for a "check-up" is excessive, especially since GM has raised the warranty on 07s. The Lexus is a fine car, but I need more leg room which the Lexus does not have. I'm also reading that even the new 07 ES350 is having some transmission problems. I guess Lexus isn't a perfect as some believe.

qbrozen · November 2006

if you use Edmunds TMV pricing it will show CPO costing upwards of $1,500 for the title of CPO on your used car.

Correct. Which is why I don't use edmunds TMV.

carteach · November 2006

People are LIVID about the Lexus. Go to the board. There is a huge thread about their transmission problems which the pre-owned salespeople refused to acknowledge. In any event, they seem to be a safety issue that affects at least all 6 cylinder cars. Sad.

In the meantime, I'm excited to get my new Acura. A different drive... fast and sporty... but hopefully will last and last... and seems to have no major problems....

Good luck with your choices.

british_rover · November 2006

Not to dampen your enthusiasm but Acura had many, many problems with their Transmissions in older TLs and MDXs. They extended the warranty out to 100,000 miles on all of those vehicles.

If you are looking for the perfect car that will never break down then that will never happen and you will never buy anything.

Just find a dealer/manufacturer that stands behind their product and get something you are happy with.

rbivins · December 2006

i just purchased a 2002 ford windstar i can't get the builtin vcr to play i put a movie in press play nothing power light blinks nothing owners manuel any help????

bearsfan · January 2007

I want to sell my CPO BMW. The details are as follows:

Location : Pittsburgh, PA
Year:2002
BMW 325i Certified Pre Owned
3 Liter 6 Cylinder
52000 miles
Color: Black / Black
Options: Wood Trim, Premium Package, power sun roof, Leather
Condition: Excellent
Maintainance: All done as recommended by BMW.

I have financed this car through BMW financials and still have some loan on this car. How can I sell it? Most of the dealers won't buy it unless and until I am trading in and trade-in won't be a good option as I won't get good value for it. Could you please let me know how can I sell it?

rbivins · January 2007

selling your car is easy put ad in local paper local market sign in car with price you want or best offer check dealer ads to see what they are asking then ask a little less because dealer prices are inflated ask enough to get the price you think is fair.

brianhl · February 2007

I'm looking at a 2004 Civic and the dealer only came close to my offer and said that was without the CPO warranty. So I'm wondering how much the dealer saved by cutting out the CPO warranty?

charles_d0222 · February 2007

Is anyone familiar with a new sedan with a Split Bench Seat
(like my 2000 Chrysler LXI) ?

hans4 · March 2007

Please help---I am new at this--
A dealer has offered me the buyout price for a leased 2004 XC70 w/ 25000 mi for $26,000. Also,the option to purchase an extended 100,000 mi/or/3 yr certified warranty for an additional $1500. I have been offered $6000 for my 1999 XC70 w/ 96000 miles. Dealer has assessed my car to be in Excellent condition (stated that rarely or never happens). He says there is no room for negotiation as the buyout price is stated on lease agreement (showed me a copy). Is this a good deal?

carlebule · March 2007

Looking for a little help with an Acura TL CPO problem:

My cousin bought an Acura CPO 2006 TL 3 months ago from an Acura dealer in eastern Maryland. A few minor problems later, she discovered that the car had been in an accident costing $11K+ to repair. This despite a negative carfax report, and the CPO certification. (She tracked down the prior owner, who confirmed the accident, and she now has the repair paperwork detailing the exact repairs). Dealer claims they didn't know, but a mechanic friend was able to spot extensive repairs instantly, and another local dealer appraised it at $17K (she paid $26K 3 months ago).

The offending dealer offered to double the warranty to 100K miles. Acura HQ said to take it up with the BBB, but I'm wondering if she should hire a lawyer. Regardless of the monetary value of getting a damaged (but repaired) car, I also think she deserves compensation--she was basically lied to, and the car could be less structurally sound in an accident (I want her to get rid of it for safety's sake).

Anyone have a similar experience or advice to give? Is hiring a lawyer the way to go, or will the BBB help her get a fair settlement?
Thanks.

tidester · March 2007

Give Purchasing at the End of Your Lease a try!

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

panga · March 2007

Hi,

I am planning to buy a CPO BMW - I've already seen the certification checklist, should I still get the car checked by a mechanic?

Thanks!

Kirstie_H · March 2007

My opinion? Yes, always. If you are purchasing a used vehicle, your money is well spent on having it checked out by a 3rd party. "Certified" doesn't make it a good car - it just means it met certain criteria and some stuff was done to it.

For example, I wouldn't buy a used Saab if God Almighty certified it himself.

sjw1 · March 2007

Hi All,
my question is in order for a car to be certified - preowned, did it require the previous owner to take the car to the dealership through Audi? Meaning if they took it to Jiffy Lube that it would not/and should not get certified?

jjn193 · May 2007

Im looking to buy a 1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee from a friend, for a reasonable price, but I am very cautious due to the mileage on the truck. The Jeep is in mint condition. My fear is that the Jeep has reached its limit. Can anyone offer any advise? Am i getting into a problem? Does the jeep still have more mileage left to go on?

joel0622 · May 2007

I feel safe to say the it is not a CPO vehicle

The thing about 100,000K plus vehichles is that it all depends how well they have been cared for. I don't care if it is a Honda, a Ford, or a Toyota. If the vehicle has not been maintained well then it is a crap shoot. If all the things that should have been done are done and the vehicle is well kept then the life expectancy will be much higher.

It also depends on how much you are paying. If you get a fantastic deal then you can afford to put some preventive dollars in it. I got a sweet deal a few months ago on 2001 Explorer with 156K on it. So I could justify spending $450 on new ball joints and a 150K service.

krkos · May 2007

Hi. I have a 2004 Sebring Convertible Limited for sale that just went over the warranty miles (36,000) and with what I just read about the sale of "certified" used cars up 40%, can I get my car certified (as a private party) to make it more attractive to buyers? I have not had any problem with it and my new company lease car will be in soon and this may help to sell it!! Please and thanks.

joel0622 · May 2007

No, for a vehicle to be certified it has to be in the dealers inventory, and the dealer has to do the inspection etc.

krkos · May 2007

Bummer! Just cannot compete with that! Let me ask you a question, if you were to come look at my car and I showed you something from the local dealer or mechanic saying they inspected certain areas of my car and all was well, would that help your decision than if I did not have something like that, you know, then just taking my word for it?

joel0622 · May 2007

Me personally no, it would make no difference to me because I am kind of jaded. A 2002 Zorch is just that a 2002 Zorch its worth what it is worth. But to the average consumer that may have some bearing, and they would prefer to see it in writing.

krkos · May 2007

Thanks for your replies joel0622, I appreciate them!

fezo · May 2007

And I would think that the main reason people buy CPO is the warranty that goes with it. I know on teh one CPO I've bought that was the case.

rbivins · May 2007

as a exsalesman the cpo is worthless if you have to pay extra for the warranty on the car.thats's where salesmen make extra money.you be the judge!

joel0622 · May 2007

LOL, I don't know what flavor you sold and for some that may be the case. But the main reason we find to sell CPO's is not so much the additional warranty that comes with the car but the lower rate. You can buy a 75K Power Train Service Contract relitivley inexpensive. But the savings on the rate is where you win. For example lets compare an F-150 on someone who would qualify for a good rate on a 2005 model.

Lets say its $20K OTD

Non-CPO

60X$400 @ 7.82% just using the prime right now for an example.

CPO

60X$365 @ 3.9%

That is a $2100 + The $580 + tax it would cost you to buy the 75K Powertrain if you wanted it.

If the truck you all looking at is more expensive then the savings would be more, if it was less then the savings would obviously be less.

I think a more accurate statement may be
Where I worked thats's where salesmen make extra money. you be the judge!

Instead of just throwing a blanket over the entire industry.

Even if there is more profit made on a CPO that is not a bad thing. You are getting more value for your dollar. Even if there is an extra $1000 made there is still a savings.

carquery · June 2007

I think we've narrowed down our SUV choice to a Lexus 400h. I realize that there are tradeoffs, mostly the increased price and less-than-hoped for mileage from a hybrid. But, from looking at the Lexus forums, it seems like it performs much better from an MPG standpoint than any similarly sized SUV.

That being said, I don't think I want to buy a new one and assuming I can find one in a color my wife likes, I'd consider buying a certified pre-owned one with low mileage (@20k mileage, give or take).

I'm wondering what the downside is of buying a pre-owned vehicle (other than the fact that it has been driving in an unknown fashion for several thousand miles and has a shorter warranty). It looks like a good way to say a good amount of money.

Any advice or input would be great. Thank you.

jlawrence01 · June 2007

I have no experience with the Lexus 400h but I have bought a few Rx330 and 350s over the past few years. They are popular among executives.

Before you decide on buying used, I would certainly recommend that you see what the best price available on the NEW models. When I have compared the NEW Rx350s to the used Rx350s, the price differential has not been large enough to justify buying used in MY opinion.

For example, I am paying $45 out the door for a Lexus Rx350 NEW and $41 for a used one, I will buy NEW all the time ... and those are some of the numbers that I have seen.

If you are spending $50k+ for a vehicle, saving $2k seems to be a false economy IMO.

chop629 · June 2007

Does an extended warranty cover the same things as a CPO? In other words, if I buy a CPO Lexus at the dealership, would also buying an extended warranty (either thru dealer or thru Warranty Direct etc) just be duplicating coverage. Does the exclusinary warranty go above and beyond the CPO?

topspin628 · July 2007

I was looking at the CPO MB S Class and BMW 7 with the idea that by buying or leasing a 2 year old low milage car with the big initial depreciation taken out of it, I would save a lot over a new one. Guess what? It just doesn't work out. First of all, the lease would be more than a new one. And on the purchase, it still seems cheaper to me to lease a new one when one considers all out of pocket expenses, depreciation etc at the end of the 3 year term. The only way it might make sense on the CPO is to buy it and run it until it won't run anymore (if you like to keep your cars for a long time). Then by having the less expensive car to start with (25K less in the S Class comparo-new vs used), you may end up ahead. But if you factor in repairs and maintainance, a higher interest rate vs a lease or new car buy, I'm still not so sure. It seems to me that the car companies are going to have to get creative to move all of the lease returns they have coming back and find a way to compete with there own subsidized new car programs. Unless they don't care and just want to move the new cars.

rbivins · July 2007

lol all you want my flavor was olds chevy and ford new and used you can spout all the mumbo jumbo garbage you want but the whole industy needs a blanket thrown over it fact is your better off buying for price or mileage forget the cpo ha buy an after market powertrain warranty from the internet. check with dealers repair shops to see what are the better ones because you can get ripped off you will save alot and they make less i left the industry because i was tired of ripping people off under threats just to make the dealer the finance guy and myself money you be the judge

joel0622 · July 2007

i left the industry because i was tired of ripping people off under threats just to make the dealer the finance guy and myself money you be the judge

Ok, as the judge I say that you didn't last long in the car biz and were not very succesful. That is where the crappy attitude comes from.

british_rover · July 2007

Agreed. Completly.

There are some CPO programs that I just don't think are worth much, Lexus and Acura come to mind, but the Ford example you posted seems to make sense.

Most of the euro brands have good CPO programs too. Volvo and SAAB have 7 year 100,000 mile top of the line exclusionary warranty with no deductible and 4.9 for 60 months.

kzybulew · September 2007

We have a 2005 Audi Allroad that we love. Our lease is up in Dec. We've had a really good experience with this car... basically problem free. Within the past five months we did have to have the driver side suspension airbag replaced (under warranty, of course.)

My dealer casually suggested to me that when we turn in the lease we buy it back as CPO. We do love this car, but given it's long term prognosis I'm hesitant to own it; i.e., be responsible for paying for repairs. Since we bought in 2005 all of our scheduled maintainance has been included.

Our monthly payment is almost $600 and we would like to be able to reduce our payment. Our assumption is that by buying preowned (with favorable financing) we'll be able to do that. I mention that because I don't think a new Q7 or even A6 might be in our budget.

So is turning in your lease and buying it back from the dealer a good way to go? Or does it simply benefit the dealer?

thanks in advance,
kzybulew

cccompson · September 2007

What is the likely difference in cost between the buy-out and CPO prices?

kzybulew · September 2007

Hmmm. Good question.
I called and our payoff amt. is currently $29063.78. That's the quote for Sept. Our lease ends Dec.
I have no idea what the dealer CPO price is...
Do i just call him and ask?

tidester · September 2007

If your payoff is $29,000 and your monthly payments are $600 then (assuming four months) the residual is about $29,000-$2,400 = $25,000 and I would guess that's fairly close to what their CPO price would be.

$25,000 financed over four years at 7% apr, coincidentally, works out to about $600 per month in payments.

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

dedukes · September 2007

Hi. I'm interested in a used 2006 Scion XB with 11k miles being sold by an independent dealer. He told me the car is Toyota Certified. There was no way of verifying this by looking at the car--at least as far as I could tell. There was a sticker on the window that read "wells fargo certified." When I asked, he said Wells Fargo was somehow connected as the loan company to the original lease, and so they certify the car when it's returned. Sounds fishy.

Is it possible that a Toyota Certified car would be sold through an independent used dealer? And, if so, how can I verify that a car is actually certified?

Thanks.

--Dare

casolorz · September 2007

I saw BMW offers leasing on their CPOs, considering leasing is supposed to be based on the price drop of the car, a CPO lease sounds very interesting. Does anyone know how good of deals they may be?
Thanks,

kzybulew · September 2007

We should qualify for top tier credit. I'm hoping AFS will offer some kind of attractive CPO financing - they recently were promoting 2.9, that would really help make our decision easier.

Tidester, thanks for the 7% reality check, I'm not going to want to continue to pay $600 a month, so we can own a 7 year old Audi (with a questionable long term prognosis.)

My next step is to begin test driving/pricing everything out there that would suit our needs in anticipation that buying or leasing new might work out to be financially equivalent or even beneficial.

im_brentwood · September 2007

Sounds like potential bull.. never mind, don't wanna upset teh hosts.

***(Warning.. long post, but a lot of this is for the benefit of everyone else who reads this)***

Wells Fargo Certified means that the car was certified by Wells Fargo when sold at a dealer auction, this means certified to not have any structural damage or structural repair history and to have a sound drivetrain. Most Manheim sales let you run cars Manheim certified, I used to do this a lot, it means that before the car is run at auction, it gets a "frame check" where it's inspected for any arbitrable structural damage and it's also given a mechanical inspection. Will they flunk it for a weak air conditioner, bad power window or edgy electronic display? No. But the engine, trans, differential, axles, etc all have to be in good shape. The car can also still have had substantial paintwork or have cosmetic issues, just the frame and drivetrain are guaranteed.

Now, if the car's got under 36k miles, who cares if anything's broken, this is what the Warranty is for.

So it means that the car is not a previously smacked unit, which is good.

Now, as to whether or not it's Toyota Certified, I can't be sure... but there's 2 things to check over here...

1) ONLY a Toyota dealer can sell a car as Toytoa certified that has not been previously certified, this is absolute fact.

2) It is possible that the vehicle was previously sold as a Toyota Certified Pre-Owned vehicle. I wasn's sure if the warranty transfers, as the Lexus CPO program does not, but according to Toyota's website it does indeed stay with the car.

http://www.toyota.com/tcuv/faq.html?language=E

My suggestion would be to call Toyota with the VIN and see if the car is covered under the Toyota Certified warranty, if it is, it's a nice bonus. If it is not, then an independent dealer cannot certify the car.

It's also important to remember that if you are considering the purchase of a previously CPO'd car that you need to bear in mind that a freshly certified car is supposed to have gone through an inspection, many of these cars pop up on the lots of different dealers, and while they may carry the balance of the certified warranty, they may not always be in the same exact condition that a freshly cerified car will be.

I used to buy LOTS of previously certified Jaguars and BMWs for the used car lot that I had in Florida, they were a great buy, we'd get 4-5 year old cars that were still under factory warranty and they hardly ever sold for more than regular prices. So the customer got some factory warranty and we were protected from unexpected repair costs... it was a lot more comforting buying that 4 1/2 year old 740iL with 65k miles that way!

So yes, it's possible that this 2006 is a 2-owner car that the second owner bought as a Toyota CPO and then had reposessed, but it's not likely.

im_brentwood · September 2007

Depends on the program... and the dealer.

There's still some independent banks that lease used cars, a friend of mine in Jersey at a Jag dealer is doing a huge business in leasing 2-3 year old Jags, so in some cases it still works.

Basically.. new S-Type V6 or 2004/5 Vanden Plas.. similar payment.

BMW's CPO support depends GREATLY on the model.. last I checked they had good support on the 7s and 5s.. nothing as usual on M cars.

joel0622 · September 2007

Even being in the business the number of autos sold in the US on a daily basis just blows me away. You always see the new numbers but never really the used.

These numbers are for CPO sales only in the US

July 2007
143,555

First 7 months of the year
1,005,152

GM
315,88822

FMC

115,573

Honda

148,675

Chrysler
105,119

Toyota

189,490

Suzuki

23

Mazda

3138

Nissan

34,563

The Nissan number surprises me, I thought it would be higher, so does the Mazda number. Porsche sold more CPO cars then Mazda did with 3845.

I am also surprised that Toyota's numbers are not hirer due to the fact that there prerequisites are less. According to the article I am reading they can certify a car that is 7 years old and has up to 85,000 miles.

peetert · October 2007

I am picking up a CPO truck tonight that I purchased the other day. When we agreed to the deal I noted that the rear tires were rather worn and should have been replaced under the CPO process (the front tired looked new). The wording from Mfr's site says 'Tread depth is 4/32" above the wear indicator' Now, in my understanding, the wear indicators are at 2/32", so the tread depth should then be no less than 6/32 of and inch, right?. These tires do not look like they are at 6/32 (4/32 + 2/32). I will double check tonight.

I had orginally planned on purchasing another truck they had, I called and set up an appointment to see it, but due to not putting a cc deposit on it (a detail missed by both me and the salesman), it literally got sold when I was on my way to the dealership. In fact, when I called in the morning, the saleman told me they were getting ready to ship it out to auction. He called me back the following day and said they had gotten in a similar CPO truck from their other store and I could get a comparable deal ont hat one. The truck I did buy has a bit more miles, but a better color than the first one. However, the first one had 4 new tires!

Also, I have pre-approved financing through my credit union, but have told the dealership I would finance through them if they'll meet the rate. when I spoke with finance yesterday I reiterated that I felt the rear tires were too worn for CPO status. He said he would have them check it when the truck was being prepped.

If nothing has been done, should I force the issue with the tires since it is a CPO and should adhear to the requirements?

Also, if I want to be picky, the CPO states it will come with all manuals as well. When I test drove it, the glove compartment was empty.

Finally, when I tested the truck it stunk from the carpet cleaning solution used on it. It actually made my wife ill. They said they would get rid of the smell and noted it on the cleanup order.

Thanks

ps the last used car we bought was a CPO as well. When I got it it had 4 new tires, new pads and rotors and the 40K service done. 5+ years and 70k+ miles is still going strong.

qbrozen · October 2007

i think you should get everything required by the CPO rules. You are, after all, paying more because it is CPO.

joel0622 · October 2007

If nothing has been done, should I force the issue with the tires since it is a CPO and should adhear to the requirements?

Also, if I want to be picky, the CPO states it will come with all manuals as well. When I test drove it, the glove compartment was empty.

Yes, get what the CPO program states. If it is a Ford then there CPO program also states you get, Floor Mats, New Windshield WIper Blades, a full tank of gas, and two keys with remotes if equipped.

Whip into a garage on your test drive and have them slipe a tread depth indicator on it.

peetert · October 2007

Thank you confirming this. I don't want to sound unreasonable and I normally would not be as picky for a skinny deal (got 2k off the internet price), and CPO or not, I think it's a good price, but since it IS a CPO, then I guess I'll keep them to the letter of what their definition of CPO is (kinda like a previous post somewhere here about the CPO BMW w/ bad window). Plus, a main reason I am purchasing THIS particular truck and not another is that it IS a CPO.

Peeter

btw, It's a Dodge (the only non Ford product we have).

peetert · October 2007

I pickup up the truck last night and all went well (except for a bit of a wait for F&I since it was crowded there last night). I checked the tires and they were well within CPO specs (gotta get my eyes checked as I'm usually pretty good at this). They got a manual for me and even found floormats (don't know if my model came with them or not and, I still had the HD Costco ones from my old truck anyway).

Even though the CPO was 8/80, I got offered a warranty plan for 8/100. I politely listened when the guy was explaining it, how the full plan covered all this and that, I then started pointing out the sections that weren't really needed since i did not have power windows, locks, etc...
He did quote me a price for the Medium coverage plan, but I declined. When all was said and done, the final Price I could have gotten was around $740 (about 400 off the original number). I still declined as my history has been I usually end up just covering the cost of the plan with benefits used. Plus, I just got burned on my DLP TV. He warranty expired 9/28 and the bulb went 10/12 :mad:

Overall it ended up being a pleasant experience. Thanks to everyone here for all the advice I've gotten personally and by lurking. I researched prices here, dealt with the internet mgr, went in with a preapproved rate and stuck to my guns on the add-ons. Overall I'm sure it wasn't the BEST deal I could have found, but I'm happy, it's in my budget!

The numbers: 2004 Dodge Dakota SXT Club Cab, 57k miles $12,4 (one owner w/ CPO warranty). Trade '94 Daktota Club cab 149k (rough shape) :sick: $600
Rate 6.69% for 60mo. (want to keeps payments low but will pay off early).

Peeter

And, the new bulb for the TV arrived yesterday so I even got to watch my Alma Mater win last night. GO RU!

morgantia · October 2007

Hi all:

I am looking at purchasing an '04 or '05 CPO Acura MDX in the Boston area. There are at least 20-30 CPO MDXs within an hour's drive which meet my mileage and options requirements (most just inside warranty, coming off lease).

Prices on the dealer websites are between 25-31K for CPO, and the local non-CPO market is very heavy with these cars. Edmunds is showing a trade-in of 23.2K on these cars, and with the number available on the market now, I think that may be high.

No trade-in.

So, my question is, for those experienced in buying CPO cars, would it be reasonable to make my starting offer at 30% below the asking price on a CPO MDX, finally settling at 20-22% off asking price?

On a 30K car, my offer would start at $21K and I would top out at $23.5-24, trying to throw a few accessories into the higher numbers. Then I'll add the Acura wrap-around or Acura-care warranty to that (1K - 2K), bringing my final offer, including the extended warranty, to to 14 percent below their asking price.

How low do you begin when negotiating on a CPO? Will the initial offer of 70 percent be scoffed at, tainting the negotiation?

Thanks for any tips!

joel0622 · October 2007

Yes I believe you will be scoffed at offering $21K for a $30K MSRP car that is CPO and currently has a trade in value in the $23.5 range. Even if Edmund's is high and say trade in is $21K I don't see what there motivation would be to trade for one/buy off lease, recon the car, bring it to CPO specs and then sell it to you for $21K.

Maybe some one will come along and read this that has access to what those cars are bringing off lease at the auction in your area. Then maybe you could get an idea of what a realistic offer would be. BTW I don't know any thing about Acura's

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