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I love driving mine and put on 5,000 miles faster than I ever have before, so I was wondering how well it will hold up at 150,000 miles.
People I know with older Mercedes find the drive train is okay but a lot of the other systems are really costly to repair so they just skip the power door locks and such.
Does anyone have any pricing info or website reviews, specifically around the 500? I'm looking for a car that could possibly seat seven, would have decent horsepower (my 2001 MY ML320 test drive disappointed me; seemed like such a heavy car should have more oomph for my taste).
Any info is greatly appreciated.
Also - is there anywhere that 2000 and 2001 MY reliability info is kept? I was originally turned off by the M-class due to poor reliability of earlier M-class models. This is supposedly better in later years, but I've yet to see anything concrete proving it.
Finally - any good websites for M-class discussion, outside of this one? I don't want to promote outside sites, but there's always room for more than one good discussion site, on any topic.
Thanks for the help,
-John
Enjoy your test drive!
I was thinking ML500 - but budget constraints might push me back to the ML320, unless I can get closer to invoice (or at least $1500 off MSRP).
However, if you read back in the eighty or so messages prior to this one, I think there are four or five references to getting discounts under MSRP. Check it out.
(Please note that the difference between invoice and MSRP for the M-class is not very large, especially compared to the MDX and RX300. So the dealers have less wiggle room to begin with.)
A poster from Georgia mentioned getting $500 off of an 2002 ML500 but a good deal on the trade-in. Another poster in New Jersey says he was offered $1,000 off over the phone without even discussing discounts, implying that he could have gotten more. And the best was a dealer in CA offering a 2002 for only $1,000 above invoice for a loaded ML320 (about a $2k-$3k discount, depending on the options). Poster listed the dealership name and the Internet sales manager.
Another poster mentioned a $1,500 discount on a 2002 ML320, also well-equipped.
Last year, after a few months, the 2001's were being had in large metro areas like your's for $500 - $1,000 above invoice, even before MB incentives came in to clear out the 2001's. Given the ready discounts on the 2002's in some areas according to these posts, you may see a similar situation ($500 to $1,000 above invoice).
I finally saw one this week and the exterior improvements look great. Better tail lights/bumper and much more aggressive front end. I really like how the side mirrors look like other MB's models..same shape and has the turn indicators too.
I can't wait to get mine!
and yes as my forum name indicates I do own a Sequoia and am very very happy with it. The ML is for my wife and me when she's not looking I will be out driving it! Remember the Lexus commercial from last year when the guy is out driving all night...That's me.
http://209.167.164.66/brand/container.jsp?/models/main.jsp&modelCode=ML320
Sorry for the long post - I do appreciate your time and info - I'm completely outmatched in my search for a new car.
I'm one of the impatient folks waiting on a 2002 Acura MDX. I wasn't completely sold on the Acura, and my wife especially wasn't, so I continue to shop around while awaiting my Dec/Jan delivery date.
I was about even in the decision between a 2001 MDX and ML320 - with the ML losing out because of initial reliability issues with the M-class, and the lack of a few features I considered necessary (the lack of climate control and rear AC pretty much did it in).
The 2002 MY's have those features - so now, I'm taking a closer look at the ML320 and 500. Since the 500's new, I really can't understand how it differs (I know engine, but not much else) from the 320.
If any of you have opinions/answers to the following questions, please let me know. I'm not here to flame - I think the ML is a great car, but a friend with a 1999 was not very pleased, mostly due to reliability. I'm ready to take a second look though.
1. ML320 vs. ML500
Seems to me that the 215 HP of the 320 is a bit underpowered (MDX has 240; rumored to go up to 250 for 2002). Does the engine need the extra oomph of the 500? Does the 500 come with standard equipment that I'd be paying for with the 320 that merits consideration? I'm budgeting around $45k w/ taxes (NYC - 8.25%), but am a bit flexible.
2. Reliability.
Anyone here with a 2000 or 2001 that cares to chime in about this? Should I be worried, or were the reliability issues related to the earlier releases?
3. Extended warranty.
How much is it, what are it's terms? I think I'd prefer a warranty, what with the cost of auto repairs these days.
4. Included maintenance for 4/50.
How much is this worth? I'm trying to compare the value of Acura vs. MB, but Acura doesn't include maint. This could be something worth about $600-1000 overall, so I should include the price.
5. Invoice vs. MSRP.
Acura dealers are the scum of the earth. They're having a fun time, what with the supply issues, billing unreasonable amounts over MSRP (I managed to HAGGLE one down to MSRP). Should I expect invoice pricing, MSRP, or somewhere in between? I don't care about time of delivery - I can receive anytime between now and January.
6. Options you can't live without.
Anything on these cars that you (the members of the forum) agree are musts? I've configured the 320 with Xenons, M1,M5,M7 and the Bose system. Anything I missed? Should I be going with the 500 instead?
7. Navi system.
I keep hearing MB's navi's are tough to manage. I also heard that Alpine started making their systems, from 2001 and beyond. Are they worth the $1700? Can I go aftermarket, or install later on?
Admittedly - I wasn't prepared to pay $50k for a car this year (been a tough year), but with a baby on the way, I want safety and reliability for wife and kid.
Thanks for any help you guys can offer.
-John
I own a 99 ML430, I had it for three years by now and never had any trouble with it, would I buy another ML, for sure, I just went to see the new ML500, I just don't know if it makes sense for me to trade now or wear out my ML and then trade.
When you talk about reliability, what exactly are you referring to, I have been monitoring this topic for over two years, because when I purchased my ML the rumor was that, it was an unreliable vehicle, given mostly by the car "rags", that is the word I use now. I thought I made a mistake by buying the ML, well, as the years went by I came to realize that there is nothing wrong with the vehicle, is a case of semantics, a rattle here and there, a misfit piece of upholstery, the infamous glue or grease, and things like that are not reliability issues, reliability issues are those that cause the vehicle to live you stranded, and that is not the case with the ML, the only issue that I am aware of causing a vehicle not to start, was the fuel pump, and now it seems that it was not the fuel pump per se, but contaminated fuel from the gas stations that would clog the fine inlet filter to the pump, as a matter of fact it seems like the ML is very sensitive to the quality of the fuel, again from monitoring this topic for over two years.
Again the ML does not have an unreliable record but a fit and trim problem, I think MB heard enough about it. My ML does have a sometimes a sound to it, it come from the upholstery rubbing against each other, but in fairness I have to say it is a natural sound and there is nothing wrong, that is the way is built.
On the plus side for the ML I have to say that of the medium sized SUV it has one of the strongest frames and the low reduction gear box is a plus to have if you are going to pull a heavy load uphill or going into rough terrain, it gives you power and control at low throtle, an aspect that many people overlook or not even think about, to me a fundamental aspect of a utilitarian vehicle. In fact the ML is a strong truck that rides like a car, it has a very precice steering, excellent ergonomics (you realize it after a while).
I may sound sound like an MB salesman, but quite the opposite, I always tell the douftfull souls to buy something else.
Drew
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Jack,
Thank you very much for this great link. I had been checking the site very often, anxiously and impatiently awaiting new information on the M-Class.
-- Gustav
I never had a problem with the ML so far and love driving it. I went from a Nissan Quest Mini Van (liked it), but I really LOVE this SUV. Not too big, not too small and a lot of fun to drive.
Good luck in your decision and I hope I helped.
Seems like no one here bought the extended warranty though - is that confidence on the MB reliability, the fact that people change cars more often than the warranty cycle, or am I just a big worrywart wasting money on something that's more expensive than it's worth?
I'd like to say I plan on keeping this vehicle 10 years - but I wonder if it's worthwhile to keep *ANY* vehicle that long anymore. Now, I'd have to convince my wife otherwise. She's all for keeping any car for the life of the vehicle.
Also, other ML extras: Must have the floor mats, cargo net and car washing kit.
I was on vacation for a few days so I could not reply to your message last week. The name of the sales rep who worked with me at Smythe European in San Jose CA was Mike LeGear. He was great and I heartily recommend him.
I forgot to mention in my earlier posting that when I was shopping for an ML, I also checked out Autobahn Motors in Belmont CA. They are much closer to where I live and so I went there first. But after three very frustrating visits there, I came to the conclusion that they did not care about customer satisfaction. The last time I went there, I had an appointment with one of the sales reps. Unfortunately, the sales rep was not at work and no one at Autobahn seemed to care (not even when I showed them a copy of the E-Mail that I had exchanged with the sales rep). I never heard back from the sales rep, so I decided to take my business elsewhere. Maybe they had a lot of business from the dot.commers at that time and figured that they could afford to be arrogant!
Pox
Also, other ML extras: Must have the floor mats, cargo net and car washing kit.
We ordered:
Brilliant Silver/Ash
M1
M2
M5
M7
Bose
Heated seats
xenon
$42,389 Total
Do let us know when you have purchased your ML. I am especially curious to find out whether you were able to get a really good deal down in the Los Angeles area (as recommended in an earlier post). I know that it was impossible to get any kind of a deal a couple of years ago in the SF Bay area. But perhaps the slowing economy has changed things now.
Good luck.
Pox
Ken
My only regret is I could have waited up to one year to purchase it. I found this out on the MBUSA site. It is much better for you to make interest on the money then them.
I paid 2550.00 for the premium warranty which extends it 4 additional years or 100K miles, which ever comes first. The transferrable clause also extends to the dealer/new owner during a trade in.
If I do sell/trade the ML prior to the end, I would pro-rate the original cost of the extended warranty into the sell/trade-in price. If I were looking for a used ML (older that 4 years), I would definitely like to have warranty coverage.
wmsbnz "Mercedes-Benz C-class - Year 2000 and earlier" Aug 27, 2001 9:54am
Drew
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Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
Confirms my recent understanding in that you have 12 months to purchase the warranty, you do not have to purchase the extended warranty from the original dealer, and that they do markup the price for their own profits. The contract does state you have 60 days to cancel for a full refund but mine is past. Hopefully others will read these post and make better decisions for themselves.
I actually only found out of this right around the time my ML was a year old, or else I would've bought the extended warranty then :-)
Drew
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Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
E.g. the Acura extended warranty is only transferrable to private individuals, meaning if you sell the vehicle to an individual you can transfer it. But if a dealer is in between, it isn't transferrable. Rather artificial constraint but maybe they don't trust used car dealers.
Nothing is fool proof. But this device is certaintly a help in prevention.
1. Warranty
Should I expect to pay around $2500 for the warranty, or can I haggle there? Also - if I have one year to buy - is the warranty always effective from the date of my vehicle purchase, or does it become effective the day I buy it (which, would get me a free year if I waited until the end of that one year grace period). My guess - effective date of vehicle purchase, which according to what I see would make my overall vehicle warranty 8yrs/100k miles.
If it's transferrable with the vehicle - would be a nice touch for the resale value down the line.
2. Navi system.
Pushing my budget here, and thought about going for a ML320 w/M1,M2,M5,M7 and Bose. The wife figured since I'll qualify for a father's day gift next year, we could buy the Navi system then. Is it possible as a dealer installed option after the vehicle's been delivered? Does it conflict with the Bose in any way? Will the cost be prohibitive adding it after purchase as opposed to order time?
3. ML320 vs. ML500
Can't seem to judge from the posts - and I've been having a hard time arranging for a side-by-side test drive of the 6 and 8 (and admittedly, I'm an absent minded sort). Does anyone here with the 6 really regret not getting the 8? I know if I try both, I'll really, REALLY want the 8, but the 6 is more practical and should suit my mostly city driving fine.
Also - outside of the added features (heated seats, navi, V8 engine) - any other advantages of ML500 - like different suspension or tires?
Thanks for all the help - you guys ROCK.
-John
I have no regrets by getting the 6 and not the 8. I have other cars that are plenty fast, this is a light truck, the V6 is adequate for me, I'm not dragging anyone. I'm still impressed with how the V6 and 5 speed auto work well enough to scoot the 4600lbs 320 along, even at highway speeds, up very steep inclines and with a full load.
I looked at an MDX as well, but, the Acura dealers around me are a bit too slick for my taste. A real turn off. The level of safety of the ML is better as well as the feel, drive them both over nasty roads and you'll see that the ML feels a bit stronger.
As far as reliability, I think the real issues have been fit and finish in the interiors. Mine has had its share of issues, but so has my 1999 C class as well as a 97 Lexus I had.
I only had one serious issue, it was in the first 72hrs, a failed transmission. Everything happened in the beginning and MB, not just the dealer but MB Corporate as well, was so fast and concerned with making me happy that it didn't really bother me. Lexus never reacted so well and I have no experience with Acura.
When my 2001 ML Lease runs out I'll be looking to get another ML.
Good luck with your search.
Anyone know of a good NYC area dealer? Tri-state really, since I don't mind driving up to 10 hours away from NY. Seems like we're at the epicenter of dirtbag car salesman nirvana.
Here's your chance to talk to other MB owners live. Join our weekly MB Tuesday chat tomorrow evening at 6-7pm Pacific. Stay tuned to this topic around that time for the link to the chat. There are at least a couple of regular chat participants living in your area.
No regrets from me for getting the V6 powered ML320 either. It has power to spare up the hills I drive and the speeds I drive at, and yet returns an acceptable fuel economy figure. If more power is needed for towing heavy loads up steep grades, low range can be utilised up to a maximum of 80 km/hr or 50 mph.
The V8 powered utes have slightly wider tires, but no differences in the suspension whatsoever. Wider tires aid handling a bit, but cause more rolling resistance, i.e. more drag.
Drew
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Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
Seats: Soft/firm? Legroom/headroom? Front seats/back seats?
Also, does it come with steering wheel controls for the stereo? And what about cupholders?
Thanks
http://209.167.164.66/brand/container.jsp?/owners/warranty/extended/index.jsp
Basically you can "add" up to four years to your original four year/50k mile warranty, or up to 100,000 "total accrued miles," whichever comes first. So it tops out at 8 years/100k miles.
Yes, you can definitely negotiate on the warranty.
My hood deflector is not the Superguard, but the MB Canada-only accessory hood deflector. However, the EGR Superguard is very similar, almost identical in fact.
(listed as standard), "Halogen front foglamps. Single red rear foglamp intergrated with left taillamp. Jewel-effect taillamp lenses".
Mark
Problems till date:
1. The alarm system was replaced under warranty in the first year.
2. The ac/heater blower make a small noice at times and that too was replaced under warranty.
3. About two months ago the alarm went off when the car was parked in the garage for no aparent reason. The first time, I just locked and unlocked it and the alarm went of again after a couple of minutes. This time I started the car and shut it down and it was okay after that.
4. This happened again couple of weeks ago. This time I turned off the towing sensor and it was okay after that. The towing sensor is on again and it seems okay.
5. When crawling at speeds below 5 miles an hour, there seems to be some hunting for gears between first and second. At regular driving speeds, it is just fine.
I have got about 20 Mpg overall.
I don't drive very aggressively and use this car mostly for long distance trips so the tires are still original Generals and it looks like they a little over 1/4 Inch of tread remaining. I think they have about 10,000 miles left on them
Will probably get the gear selector checked in the next service.
Overall, I am a satisfied owner. The benefits of owning this car far exceed the annoyances I have had.
I keep my cars till they die on me. Hopefully, I will be able to give you guys the 75K, 100K, 150K, 200K, 250K and 300K updates, unless of course I make enough money and trade it in for a G500. Now that's what I really really want
If anybody has a lot more miles on their car than I do, I am sure we would all appreciate your feed back.
Thanks