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Mercedes-Benz M-class (ML320, ML350, ML500 and ML55) 2005 and earlier

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Comments

  • kiiwiikiiwii Member Posts: 318
    My ML has no problem to accelerate from "stand still." BUT, severe hesitation can be felt when the car is already in motion. This is a big problem when trying to pass or changing lanes. I usually tap the stick twice switching to the 3rd gear when I need the extra kick.

    2000 ML320
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    I agree with Ken, I think that it has to do with the driving style of the individual driver(s). If you drive at a leisurely pace most of the time, the ML's driver adaptive transmission will shift as such. However, if you're more aggressive, it will downshift a lot faster. Since the throttle pedal is not physically connected to the engine, as in older vehicles, this means that same amounts of pressure on the pedal may not yield to the same amounts of forward motion. If you're unhappy at the current adaptation, the computer adaptions can be reset, and it will relearn all of the shift points to adapt to your driving style again. Keep in mind that if you test drive an ML, the transmission might not shift as it normally would since there are so many drivers that have driven the vehicle in a short period of time, all with differing driving styles.

    If you want instantaneous acceleration, you should either floor the gas pedal to prompt an immediate downshift of a lower gear, or you could downshift manually, and then step on the throttle.
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    I think a better question you can ask is which garage door opener is not compatible with the Homelink transmitter. A good place to start is the Homelink homepage at:

    http://www.homelink.com


    Hope this helps!
    Drew
    Host
    Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards

  • hhm1644hhm1644 Member Posts: 13
    Don't think it's driving style, since my '01 E320 has the same transmission and doesn't have this issue. My dealer has confirmed that Mercedes is aware of this problem and that it is showing up on a large percentage of 2000 & 2001 models. He has not seen it on the 2002, but says the components involved have not been changed, so it's likely to be affected also. While driving style shouldn't matter, I DO think the driver adaptive transmission is to blame as the word from Germany (according to my dealer) is that this is ultimately a software glitch in the transmission computer. Normal driver-adaptive shifting shouldn't cause the car to shudder rather than move when the gas is pressed. And even with a large margin of error when pulling out, if the delay can at times exceed 3-4 seconds, that ain't good.
    My ML320 is being "seen" by the district service manager on Thursday, and he is going to put a 100amp something somewhere on his own ML (at my dealer's shop) and on mine. After that, I'm pursuing a claim for replacement with an E-wagon at fair value.

    Everyone who has been living with this issue should understand that it is abnormal, has been recognized by MB, and is supposedly being solved. PLEASE REPORT YOUR INDIVIDUAL CASE TO YOUR DEALER SO THAT MB WILL KNOW THE GRAVITY OF THE PROBLEM AND WORK QUICKLY ON A FIX.

    Take care, guys.
  • johnnnycjohnnnyc Member Posts: 166
    I'm hearing that if you gun it, or manually downshift, you're OK.

    Dunno about most - but if I'm in an emergency situation, I'm gunning it. Don't know if a tight-spot is the place to be babying your engine.
  • hhm1644hhm1644 Member Posts: 13
    Don't think it's driving style, since my '01 E320 has the same transmission and doesn't have this issue. My dealer has confirmed that Mercedes is aware of this problem and that it is showing up on a large percentage of 2000 & 2001 models. He has not seen it on the 2002, but says the components involved have not been changed, so it's likely to be affected also. While driving style shouldn't matter, I DO think the driver adaptive transmission is to blame as the word from Germany (according to my dealer) is that this is ultimately a software glitch in the transmission computer. Normal driver-adaptive shifting shouldn't cause the car to shudder rather than move when the gas is pressed. And even with a large margin of error when pulling out, if the delay can at times exceed 3-4 seconds, that ain't good.
    My ML320 is being "seen" by the district service manager on Thursday, and he is going to put a 100amp something somewhere on his own ML (at my dealer's shop) and on mine. After that, I'm pursuing a claim for replacement with an E-wagon at fair value.

    Everyone who has been living with this issue should understand that it is abnormal, has been recognized by MB, and is supposedly being solved. PLEASE REPORT YOUR INDIVIDUAL CASE TO YOUR DEALER SO THAT MB WILL KNOW THE GRAVITY OF THE PROBLEM AND WORK QUICKLY ON A FIX.

    Take care, guys.
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    image


    Just a reminder that the MB chat is on tonight (6-7pm Pacific/9-10 pm Eastern). Hope to see you there!

    http://www.edmunds.com/townhall/chat/mercedeschat.html

  • kenyeekenyee Member Posts: 738
    I haven't heard it being as bad as 3-4 secs. I've heard 1-2 secs...just enough to freak people out...if you have the hesitation during a traffic merge, it sounds like there is enough time to abort the merge rather than going halfway in and then stalling...

    Please make sure they give you a detailed copy of the job order. They should include all parts and a description of the work.
    The MY2002 has a new shifting program. I'm surprised it has the problem as well. I thought it affected the mileage.
  • roger23roger23 Member Posts: 48
    Sorry to be the dissenter, but I had a 1998 ML320 (for 2 years), now have a 2000 ML430 (also for 2 years), and I have experienced no hesitation problems. I am picking up my 2002 ML500 sport on Sat. and hope I don't start getting that glitch now.
  • nothappymlnothappyml Member Posts: 3
    If some of you remembered my posting in regards to our ML320E and the many problems on delivery.
    Well, the dealership has gone extra miles to rectify all the concerns. However b'cos of the unfortunate WTC-Pentagon tragedy, delivery of parts( leather seats,handle) to Canada from the US has been delayed. The check engine light was on b'cos of a leaky gas cap liner (?) therefore some pressure problems hence the entire assembly was replaced. So far the vehicle is operating well. Still waiting on having the bumper repainted. Where does one get a hood deflector from and what should one expect to pay?
    Has anyone experienced inconsistent volume surges while radio/CD is on? I don't believe the volume is speed controlled like our C-class or is it?
    If it is, it ain't working correctly then.
  • gpvsgpvs Member Posts: 214
    AFAIK, the radio/cd is speed controlled. Mine works correctly, where it lowers the volume a bit when i slow down.

    Hood deflector - I got the EGR from Performance Products. I think I paid around $60 for it including shipping.

    And, no, Jaime, i have not installed it yet. :)
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    image


    Just a reminder that the MB chat is on tonight (6-7pm Pacific/9-10 pm Eastern). Hope to see you there!

    http://www.edmunds.com/townhall/chat/mercedeschat.html

  • dave01dave01 Member Posts: 12
    Well, after lots of time building up to it, we recently got a new ML320 in silver/ash, M1/M5/M7. Opted for the silver and standard stereo rather than wait out the conflict with the Bose and M7 and availability of our favorite color (hey, they're all nice!). Many thanks to Drew and those who answered my direct questions and provided lots of info while I was just lurking. So far, we love it!

    A few observations. First, I'll second the recommendation about EuroMotorcars on the dealer board. Their first quote was certainly in the target range, if not the absolute lowest mentioned here. No obnoxious "conveyance" fee or tack-on, just $25 to process the plates. A fair deal for them and us without games.

    Two minor quality problems so far. The 3rd seat headrest wouldn't go in because the locking spring was out of place--fixed by the salesman & me. The left side mirror doesn't go left-right, but I haven't taken it in for that yet. Minor, but both items shouldn't've left the factory.

    For those looking at 3rd seats--we ARE the test case! Yes, it is possible to put 2 toddlers in car seats and 2 pre-teens in the back. There isn't a lot of leg room, but they can get in out OK. There is leg depth in the well for our tall older kids. The ability to adjust the split parts of the rear seat fore/aft is helpful. We love the added rear a/c for '02.

    Finally, to answer the recent question on garage openers, I programmed both Genie fixed-code and Chamberlain/Sears rolling code ones on the first shot.
  • harvey16harvey16 Member Posts: 1
    Car sounds great, have fun !!
    I'm just about to order ML320, with last decision bose or no bose......have u listened to standard speakers yet?
  • johnnnycjohnnnyc Member Posts: 166
    Are they worth it? Do you think adults could fit back there, or are they solely for kiddie use?

    Keep in mind - my adults are relatively small (none over 5'11") and we're not going to drive to Florida with them back there - just short trips.

    Also - how hard are they to get out of there? I plan on having mine in the garage most of the time, with them installed only for the occasional use they'll get.

    Good luck with it - hope it gives you many years of service!

    -J
  • johnnnycjohnnnyc Member Posts: 166
    Bose and no-Bose. And I gave it a *real* test - brought along my favorite CDs, blasted along for at least 20 minutes ride each time.

    My opinion (and remember - sound quality is a very relative thing):

    If I had to put a dollar value, to me, on the Bose - I'd say it's worth about $750 or so. It's got a nice 6 CD changer, and the speaker/amp system is very capable. If I was going to have it aftermarket installed, it would cost at least $400-500, but:

    It wouldn't be covered under warranty, and it wouldn't be MCS integrated, not to mention the fact that I'd have people hacking away at my new car.

    Considering the cost of the item is about $1200 (although you negotiate it down to $1050 or so), it's about 300 or 400 overpriced. My final observation - when you're talking about a $43k vehicle, why skimp on 300 or 400 bucks?

    If you're not one for a 6 CD changer, then the system is obviously worth less. In a vehicle with rain sensing windshield wipers, heated seats, auto-dimming mirrors - I felt it was a shame to miss out on an adaptive 6 CD 9 speaker based stereo system.

    Again - that's up to the listener. You really should try both for yourself, and remember to bring along the tunes!
  • howvoodhowvood Member Posts: 19
    After much deliberation, I bought the extended warranty. I bought it from Lisa thanks to the lead from "showitt". I have a clear Bugflector II that I bought from carparts.com for about $50. The part number is 24042-c, for anyone interested. The ml-320 is almost a year old so I brought it to the dealer for alignment and, while it was there, had them activate the fogs. (I had already installed the bulbs) I was billed for .3 hr labor, which I thought was reasonable. This was the first time it was in for any service at a dealer.
  • michml320michml320 Member Posts: 42
    I have a 2002 ML320 with standard stereo and third row seats also. They work wonderfully and I would highly recommend them to those with kids or those who have to transport a number of people. They are easy to stow also. My 6 year old sits back there while his two younger brothers sit in the second row. He climbs in through the back door. I know the second row split seat folds forward but I'm really just too lazy and busy to do it so I make him climb in the back. We usually keep just one seat down back there for him and that gives plenty of room for kiddie junk, etc. It seems not many people order the third row or so my dealer told me. This vehicle is well suited for it if you have the need and the seats can be easily removed entirely. It's really quite a nicely thought out mechanism. If you need the seats, get them.
  • 52cars52cars Member Posts: 30
    the last couple messages talked about downshifting. i am CURIOUS what will happen if you tap stick more than you intended to? i mean you may end up in the 2nd or even 1st gear while you are going 50mph.

    what is the trick here? and how do you know you are not overrevving it?

    just for the curiosity..........won't try this at home? :=)
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    There is a rev limiter, so you will never over-rev the engine since the computer will step in. You'll find this in most modern vehicles today.

    For what it's worth, in the '02 MLs, to select the optimal gear for acceleration, all you have to do is to tap the shift lever to the left and hold it there for a second or two and the transmission computer will automatically select the best gear. For the pre-'02 MLs, tapping and holding the shift lever to the left will bring up the gear the transmission is currently in (except if you're already in 5th gear, at which point you go to 4th gear), and then you can simply tap a second time to go into the lower gear below that. I've found this to be extremely effective and really have zero complaints :-)
  • 52cars52cars Member Posts: 30
    Thx. is there any harm to the engine/transmission in drive a auto car in a 'manual' way.?
  • robsutsrobsuts Member Posts: 18
    Congrats on your new 320. Can I ask you what dealership you used? I'm curious if there is a difference between various dealers in the Detroit area. Thanks - Rob
  • smwls8smwls8 Member Posts: 103
    Can some one please give me a link to the Kevlar brake pads I read here somewhere?

    Thanks in Advance
    Sam
  • johnnnycjohnnnyc Member Posts: 166
    what you paid for the extended warranty from Lisa?

    E-mail me if you prefer privacy - jnanas@hotmail.com.

    I'd call her myself - but my car isn't due for at least a month, and I don't want to call her this far in advance. I would like to know what I can expect to pay, so I know what the final cost of this vehicle will work out to.

    Thx,
    -John
  • gustavmgustavm Member Posts: 43
    Has anybody who has had a problem with the hesitation tried manually shifting?

    Does it occur even when you downshift to 2nd or 3rd?

    Please let me know. I am supposed to be picking up our '02 ML320 on Saturday or Monday and I would like to know if I should be looking instead at the ML500 or even the X5 (I'd rather not...).

    -- Gustav
  • ccweemsccweems Member Posts: 33
    Brake Warehouse (800) 814-0702 sell Rotex brand which work very well and only about 1/20th the dust. More details on previous posts.
  • 52cars52cars Member Posts: 30
    i personally think there is a little hesitation, but that is probably because i got used to the clk. i let my friend drove it, he said, it is fine......so.....

    no i have not tried manually shifting. need more lectures from Drew. :=)

    Drew: can u confirm : in 02MLs(particularly 320), shift lever to the left and hold it there for a second or two and the transmission computer will automatically select the best gear.

    thx.
  • dave01dave01 Member Posts: 12
    I didn't compare the Bose & non-Bose systems side by side, and I'll defer to johnnnyc on the value. However, I'd say the non-Bose was at least comparable to the ordinary factory stereos in our (now ancient) Volvo and Acura. Not terrific, but not bad. If you're going to listen to the radio or cassettes, it's probably fine. Also, we didn't care about the CD changer, and found an ML that already had the single-CD installed, which we wanted. Those are way overpriced as a dealer option, but they get reasonable very quickly when it's time to close the deal.

    BTW, I found out that the Bose changers ARE Alpine, but you can't add one aftermarket. They're custom for MB from Alpine's OEM division.
  • dave01dave01 Member Posts: 12
    I agree with mich's comments. For us, the 3rd row was a requirement--one of the main reasons for getting an ML. They are pretty much real seats, if slightly thinner. With the 2nd seat forward, legroom is decent--comparable to the 2nd row in its normal position. I'm 6'+, and could sit Ok with my feet in the well--your knees don't stick in midair. Of course, then the 2nd row shrinks by 3 inches. With the 2nd seat back, it's really tight in the 3rd row--maybe Ok for a pre-teen, but an adult's not going far that way.

    Note that the 2nd seat's 60/40 splits are independently adjustable. This really provides much more flexibility depending on the size of the folks you're carrying. Now if only the 2nd row had several positions rather than just "front" and "back"...

    The seats stow easily. I've done it only a couple times, and still fumble, but it'd be quick after a few more times. I haven't removed them yet, but it looks easy. They supposedly weigh 35# each.

    Note also that there is a little bit of room behind the 3rd row, especially near the floor. You won't fit cases of beer, but a couple medium-large soft duffle bags could make it.
  • johnnnycjohnnnyc Member Posts: 166
    I gave the ML some serious points in my comparo for the third row.

    The explorer and MDX both had them - but neither allowed you to shift legroom from the 2nd to the 3rd, eliminating both the others from serious third row contention.

    The only thing I consider is when I do deploy the third row, I'll be left with little space in the rear (the laws of physics still apply - can't create space where there wasn't any before). I'm figuring on combatting that with a good roof luggage carrier.

    Anyone here use a luggage carrier to store a stroller/travel system?
  • thor8thor8 Member Posts: 303
    I was reading a post from several days ago, in it somebody said his ML had to be towed, while being winched into the truck the complete front end came apart taking the plastic front end and bumper with it, something to the effect that rust ate the weldings. I have seen the naked frame before, I said to myself impossible, I had to go to my ML and crawl under and look at the cross member where the towing eyelet is welded on, I said to myself, no way, I just don't believe that story.
  • samzurc1samzurc1 Member Posts: 19
    What is the best oil for my 99 ML 430. My service record say it is of 20-50 grade but I think Mobil 1 doesn't come in this grade. They only have 15-50. Is this good enough? Castrol has synthetic 20-50 grade. Comments please. Thanks.
  • johnnnycjohnnnyc Member Posts: 166
    not because of familiarity with the M-class, but with cars in general.

    If the front end had actually rusted to that point, then simply the force applied when taking off from a standstill, or a good bump while moving faster than 30 MPH, should have caused the front end to separate.

    Although it seems like a great amount of stress - the pull from the winch at that point is less than the amounts of force applied during those other situations, specifically at the area around the crossmember, which would have caused the car to split much earlier.

    Could just be a troll post... either that, or something else they're not mentioning.
  • justinw28justinw28 Member Posts: 2
    1. Looking for a Starmark certified ML. While going through dealer websites, I notice that some apparently comparable MLs are SMed and some are not. Why would a dealer not give a vehicle the SM but still sell it? If I asked to see the MB inspection checklist to see why it isn't SMed, would they show it to me?

    2. I live in Central Florida. Comparing the offering prices for 2000 MLs to the Edmunds TMV, it looks like most nearby dealers are right at the TMV (assuming "outstanding" condition) or a little below it (assuming "clean" condition). How much can I expect them to bargain?

    Thanks.
  • justinw28justinw28 Member Posts: 2
    If I find a vehicle at a nearby, but out of town dealer, is it best to go directly to that dealer, of will my local dealer "find" that vehicle for me? Pros and cons of this?

    Thanks again.
  • akin67akin67 Member Posts: 62
    What make are the tires on the ML500? I have a 2000 ML430 and one of my complaints is the road noise I suspect are generated by the tires.

    Are the tires on the ML500 quiter?

    Thanks
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    The older tires used to be the General Grabber ST and the Dunlop Grandtrek TG35 tires. For the ML430, only the latter tires were used; both of these tires are all-terrain tires, as MB puts it, and can be taken through some medium off-road conditions. The new tires are all-season tires, and while quieter and smoother, they will also be less forgiving off-road.


    The new tires are the Continental 4X4 Contact (top), and the Dunlop SP5000 (bottom).

    image


    image

  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    image


    Drew
    Host
    Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
  • 52cars52cars Member Posts: 30
    Cons: reputation for poor build quality.

    what are they comparing to.?
  • djdjdjdj Member Posts: 111
    I bought a 2000 ML320 last June from a dealer in Cleveland. The dealer was asking $34.7 with 19K miles which was thousands below what Edmunds said was the local TMV for a Starmark vehicle. It was a 'no-haggle' price so I offered $34.0 and got it.

    There wasn't a huge inventory of them here but most were far below the TMV. Maybe the Mid-West doesn't have the same demand for foreign cars as FLA. Given the economy I would think the dealers would want to move inventory and would negotiate, particularly if there is a reasonable amount of selection near you.

    I was also surprised how many dealers in the area were showing non-Starmark vehicles in their on-line inventory listing, but mine wasn't shown on-line as a Starmark, just at the dealer was that shown.

    I'd definitely recommend a Starmark'd car over unwarranteed. With warranty coverage double the distance, why buy a brand new one?

    I love driving the ML. I does rattle a little more than I'd like, but the drive/ride/handle factor makes it all worthwhile.

    FWIW, I have one with a skyview roof and its great. CLE doesn't offer a lot of chance to open it, but in FLA it would be nice.
  • bertram60bertram60 Member Posts: 113
    and silver Mercedes star logo cap (first of Drew's wheel picts) will fit on the ML430 wheels. Is this a special order item as some of the 02 C and ML's I've seen on the streets have it and some don't. I'm going to check with the dealer (I'm sure they won't know) to see what they are and how much they are. I think makes the wheel look like a much higher end wheel. definitely an improvement.
  • ml320ml320 Member Posts: 22
    Randolph, ask your dealer's parts department for SLK wheel insets. They fit the ML430.


    image


    Cool Wheels


    Wolfgang

  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    Oh you mean the '02 ML320's centre wheel inserts? As Wolfgang wrote, the parts department wil probably be able to order them for you, and they should be compatible
  • spfoteyspfotey Member Posts: 131
    I am looking for feedback on the 2002 changes. I will be looking to get out of my 98 ml and into something newer soon. (about to hit 50,000 miles and i don't want this past warranty).

    have seen some brochures but for those who have bot the new one and compared it to the old one your thots would be a help. thx.
  • brando09brando09 Member Posts: 1
    I've been reading this post for quite sometime and decided it was time to speak up. I'm in the market for another vehicle at this time. I've thought about the ML320, but am unsure with the current events. I'm building the case in my mind for the ML320 either "01 or "02. I'm told I could get an "01 for $1,500 below invoice, and less than $1,000 over invoice on the "02.

    For those of you that are farther along with your research please give me your pros and cons.
  • roger23roger23 Member Posts: 48
    Drew, as I mentioned on MB chat, on page 115 of the 2002 owners manual, describing the operation of the "rest" (residual engine heat utilization) feature, it says "except Canada" at the heading. On doing some checking MB told me that it was indeed a misprint, that the 2002 ML's come standard with "rest". Whew!
  • michml320michml320 Member Posts: 42
    Rob,
    The dealer I used was Mercedes Benz of Rochester and everything went without a hitch. They were very nice and professional. Don't expect any money off from them I tried and failed but I'm still happy with my '02. 1500 miles and perfect.
  • cdiccdic Member Posts: 36
    I'm in the process of taking the '01 ML430 in for a few minor annoyances. One being the sound damping material that appears on the windows when they are brought back up (sun roof too) - no big deal - I'd rather have sound damping than not have it and the problem can't be that big a deal to fix.

    The other one is odd. I noticed it mentioned by -nothappyml- 20 or so posts back. I had not heard it mentioned before so thought I had something unique, but maybe not. My command / bose system has been randomly raising the volume to FULL (Cd or radio), if I don't catch it 1st. Let me tell you, if you haven't tried, and I don't recommend it, this thing really gets loud. It's an eye opener when in busy traffic. Dealer says he will replace the MCS head, but mentioned that he had not heard of it before. My backlight flickers when the headlights are on (night mode display) so I am not too sorry to see it go. That in itself wasn't a bother, but may have been related. I'm only glad to be able to whine about such trivia, this SUV is GREAT.
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    I had the first dibs on having a look at my MB Canada dealer's first two '02 MLs (Brilliant Silver ML320 Elegance, and Desert Gold ML500) yesterday and I brought my camera along. For some reason, the extra chrome on the ML500 didn't seem to match too well with the Desert Silver paint, IMHO. Perhaps it will grow on me in time though. New tires are the Continental 4X4 Contact, and the Dunlop SP5000s.

    The pictures can be see via the link below, just keep clicking on the right arrow to move to the next one.

    http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=137587&a=1130466&p=54560270&f=0

    Enjoy!
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    The automatically compensating volume can be adjusted or turned off completely by the dealer, so you may want to pursue that route if you are unhappy with it.


    Drew
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    Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
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